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2008-07-08 02:18:46
CameronPoe
Member
+2,925|6859

lowing wrote:

Do you really believe that my opinions of people and their responsibilities to themselves, their families, or thier society changes based on skin color?
No.

lowing wrote:

Do you HONESTLY think I have more respect for white trash, than I do a middle class black man?
No.

lowing wrote:

Do you think I judge white people dressed like gangstas and sagging and acting a fool differently than I do a black person?
No.

Do I believe you're racially prejudiced?

Yes.

Based on the volume of posts aimed at black 'gangsta' idolisers, your karma message to Nu7, the slavery advocate posting sourceless race-based statistics (not a mention of the fact that skin colour is irrelevant in his stats), the tone you use in referring to 'the black community', the generalised wording of posts you make regarding 'the black community', automatic assumptions that someone 'shooting up' would be black, etc.

Let's get this straight. You are by no manner of means some KKK goon but you are mildly racist.

Last edited by CameronPoe (2008-07-08 02:43:51)

2008-07-08 04:02:47
lowing
Banned
+1,662|6955|USA

Pierre wrote:

lowing wrote:

Pierre wrote:


I agree, but WHY should not everyone be abligated to try to reach president? Why stop at being a doctor, postal worker, etc. Why is that the limit?
the limits are personal. It is your life, you are free to pursue what you will....................................or not
OK, but WHY do you limit your own possibilities? Why did you say you would not become a doctor, lawyer, postal worker, president, but instead an aircraft mechanic? What made you make that choice?
I like airplanes.......Some like biology, some like the law...........Tell ya what, why don't you just come out and say where you are going with this, instead of trying to manuver me into a corner for the kill.
2008-07-08 04:06:42
lowing
Banned
+1,662|6955|USA

CameronPoe wrote:

lowing wrote:

Do you really believe that my opinions of people and their responsibilities to themselves, their families, or thier society changes based on skin color?
No.

lowing wrote:

Do you HONESTLY think I have more respect for white trash, than I do a middle class black man?
No.

lowing wrote:

Do you think I judge white people dressed like gangstas and sagging and acting a fool differently than I do a black person?
No.

Do I believe you're racially prejudiced?

Yes.

Based on the volume of posts aimed at black 'gangsta' idolisers, your karma message to Nu7, the slavery advocate posting sourceless race-based statistics (not a mention of the fact that skin colour is irrelevant in his stats), the tone you use in referring to 'the black community', the generalised wording of posts you make regarding 'the black community', automatic assumptions that someone 'shooting up' would be black, etc.

Let's get this straight. You are by no manner of means some KKK goon but you are mildly racist.
I am not racially prejudiced Cam, I have social prejudices..........something I have admitted to a loooong time ago on this forum....When the forum topic is the black community  I will speak of the negative influences within it....your denial that they exist is absurd, just as your insistence that when I speak of it, I am including everyone within it........Some things should be understood Cam, you know this, but you can not be the pain in the ass that you are without using generalizations as part of an argument along with racism.
2008-07-08 04:16:08
ZombieVampire!
The Gecko
+69|6131

ZombieVampire! wrote:

lowing wrote:

Welllllllll..........Cammmmmmmm....................THE TOPIC WAS BLACK SOCIAL ISSUES.................it was not white social issues or hispanic social issues.
Didn't you create the topic?
2008-07-08 04:17:47
lowing
Banned
+1,662|6955|USA

Braddock wrote:

lowing wrote:

Do you really believe that my opinions of people and their responsibilities to themselves, their families, or thier society changes based on skin color?

Do you HONESTLY think I have more respect for white trash, than I do a middle class black man? 

Do you think I judge white people dressed like gangstas and sagging and acting a fool differently than I do a black person?
You don't seem to have as many threads about these white groups though lowing, why is that?
I have no threads about any race..........I have 1 thread that addresses racism in America, which includes whites and blacks, and I have this one which is a comparision to the thread where I was being accused of being a racist for pointing out basically the same problems within the black community as Obama Cosby and Rock. If I have more, I have forgotten them.

Does the white community have problems, you bet your ass, if you wanna talk about debt, lets, if you wanna talk about trailer trash, lets, if you wanna talk about meth labs in our suburbs, lets, white serial killlers, lets....but, these were not the topic of discussion in the black social problem threads, THAT I DIDN'T START.

In that othe thread, you say the probelms are because of slavery 150 years ago and civil rights 40 years ago......A generalization to be sure. Yet you are not condemned for it.

I say the problem lies in personal responsibility of the individual regardless of the past..........I am accused of generalizing and a racist and I am crucified. Never mind I am addressing the INDIDVIDUAL of which my comments might apply, I am still generalizing....Never mind my comments would apply to ANYONE with a lack of personal responsibility.....I am a racist.

Now, go figure.
2008-07-08 04:19:00
lowing
Banned
+1,662|6955|USA

ZombieVampire! wrote:

ZombieVampire! wrote:

lowing wrote:

Welllllllll..........Cammmmmmmm....................THE TOPIC WAS BLACK SOCIAL ISSUES.................it was not white social issues or hispanic social issues.
Didn't you create the topic?
Already explained the creation of this topic....and you know it
2008-07-08 04:19:36
ZombieVampire!
The Gecko
+69|6131
No, the one in which you made the original comment about black people.
2008-07-08 04:20:32
lowing
Banned
+1,662|6955|USA

ZombieVampire! wrote:

No, the one in which you made the original comment about black people.
Wasn't my thread

Also I didn't make a comment about black people, I made a comment about those black people of which my comment appied. That does not include every black person in the world.

Last edited by lowing (2008-07-08 04:22:21)

2008-07-08 04:58:05
B.Schuss
I'm back, baby... ( sort of )
+664|7145|Cologne, Germany

I read through 6 pages of this thread, and then skipped to the end.

honestly, I have lost track what the argument is about in the first place.

From my point of view, Obama could have held the same speech in front of a mainly white audience, and he'd not have had to change a single word. It's about personal responsibility, regardless of the ethnic background. Just because he is black, people automatically assume every word he says is a message to the black community. And that's just absurd. After all, he wants to be president of a predominantly white country...

There is no racism here.

As far as the stats go, they are just that, stats. The conclusions you draw from those stats is what will make the difference between racist and non-racist.
2008-07-08 05:41:59
ZombieVampire!
The Gecko
+69|6131
He could have.  But lowing is saying it's comparable to giving the same speech in front of white people and prefacing it with "I'm primarily speaking about black people".
2008-07-08 06:35:45
lowing
Banned
+1,662|6955|USA
Already showed where the media and the black community acknowledges that he was speaking mainly to the black community......An inconvenient fact that is cleverly ignored by my opponents.

I know this is not racism, the point of the thread was to point out that I was called a racist for basically preaching personal responsibility in another thread and was called a racist for it. Here, Obama does the same thing. That is kinda sorta why I said Obama is a racist according to YOU and not according to ME.

Last edited by lowing (2008-07-08 06:36:27)

2008-07-08 06:47:14
Braddock
Agitator
+916|6594|Éire

lowing wrote:

Already showed where the media and the black community acknowledges that he was speaking mainly to the black community......An inconvenient fact that is cleverly ignored by my opponents.

I know this is not racism, the point of the thread was to point out that I was called a racist for basically preaching personal responsibility in another thread and was called a racist for it. Here, Obama does the same thing. That is kinda sorta why I said Obama is a racist according to YOU and not according to ME.
Again lowing you are missing the point everyone else has been making to you. The issue of personal responsibility is not the crux of the racism accusations you have faced, in fact I doubt anyone on this forum would not advocate personal responsibility in any society. You've been accused of racism (or at the very least having an inherent negative bias towards the African American population) because of a tendency to presume blackness in certain scenarios and because you have been known to dwell on the issue of skin colour and black culture when the social problems often apply to society as a whole.
2008-07-08 06:48:58
Scorpion0x17
can detect anyone's visible post count...
+691|7070|Cambridge (UK)

lowing wrote:

Already showed where the media and the black community acknowledges that he was speaking mainly to the black community
'To' lowing, 'to'.

Not 'about'.

'To'.

You preach personal responsibility in a thread about the rate of crime amongst black Americans.

Obama preached personal responsibility to an audience of black Americans.

See the difference?

No, I guess you don't.

Last edited by Scorpion0x17 (2008-07-08 06:50:26)

2008-07-08 06:50:45
Pierre
I hunt criminals down for a living
+68|6979|Belgium

lowing wrote:

Pierre wrote:

lowing wrote:

the limits are personal. It is your life, you are free to pursue what you will....................................or not
OK, but WHY do you limit your own possibilities? Why did you say you would not become a doctor, lawyer, postal worker, president, but instead an aircraft mechanic? What made you make that choice?
I like airplanes.......Some like biology, some like the law...........Tell ya what, why don't you just come out and say where you are going with this, instead of trying to manuver me into a corner for the kill.
Bummer, you don't play chess, do you?

The point is, we are all the product of our ancestors, our education, our environment, you name it.  When we decide on something, we base our decision on what we know, what we have learned, how we were teached, among other things. Race is a determining factor, as are other factors, such as social status and skills, wealth, etc. All these factors are connected to each-other.

Remember what Braddock wrote:

Braddock wrote:

I don't think anyone at any stage argued that personal responsibility wasn't ultimately what is needed to succeed to any degree in life. What some people were arguing was that demographically most African Americans don't have the same head starts in life that many white people do and as such levels of education and social awareness in relation to such issues are more likely to be worse in African American communities. As Cam pointed out on numerous occasions social awareness doesn't magically appear at birth, it needs to be instilled and if society doesn't address it's social problems and continually work to improve awareness then the problems will not get any better...and people like you who choose to dismiss statistics and the existence of such social problems only perpetuate the cycle.

It's very easy for white America to point the finger at the problems of the African American community when they themselves have had a few hundred years head start on the back of work done by slaves.
As to my initial question - if you believe personal responsibility is key to everything, and everyone can become what he wants if he's willing to work for it, then why aren't you president of the US? - your answer was that we are all different, some may find sollace in being a doctor, some a pilot, some a small business owner, some a teacher, some a postal worker, some a truck driver. Yes, we are all different, but why? What makes the difference?

What in fact you were saying was that we don't decide for our own, but we make our decisions based on our prior knowledge, our education, and the social status of our parents and family. If you are a WASP, you have definitely received a head start compared to a kid who grew up in the ghetto.

So, your decision in becoming an aircraft mechanic was probably not only being founded by your love of airplanes.
2008-07-08 06:58:46
lowing
Banned
+1,662|6955|USA

Braddock wrote:

lowing wrote:

Already showed where the media and the black community acknowledges that he was speaking mainly to the black community......An inconvenient fact that is cleverly ignored by my opponents.

I know this is not racism, the point of the thread was to point out that I was called a racist for basically preaching personal responsibility in another thread and was called a racist for it. Here, Obama does the same thing. That is kinda sorta why I said Obama is a racist according to YOU and not according to ME.
Again lowing you are missing the point everyone else has been making to you. The issue of personal responsibility is not the crux of the racism accusations you have faced, in fact I doubt anyone on this forum would not advocate personal responsibility in any society. You've been accused of racism (or at the very least having an inherent negative bias towards the African American population) because of a tendency to presume blackness in certain scenarios and because you have been known to dwell on the issue of skin colour and black culture when the social problems often apply to society as a whole.
Then perhaps the threads need to speak of high crime rates, period, instead of black crime rates, I will then post accordingly.....your denial that the black community has some unique social problems that needs to be overcome ( as acknowledged by Obama, Rock Cosby and the rest of the media etc..) is rediculous. In fact, I think you pretty much know this, but to acknowledge it, would deflate your argument that I am racist completely, and I know you can not have that.

You, not me, are the one who makes the DISTINCTION of social problems and their causes... I speak of individuality, you speak of slavery and civil rights issues.....So which is it? Are you now telling me that white members of society are now "suffereing" for the effects of slavery and civil rights as their reason for irresponsible behavior and action? Tell me again who is making distinctions??

I did not "dwell" on black culture, it was the topic of discussion Braddock.
2008-07-08 07:05:00
lowing
Banned
+1,662|6955|USA

Pierre wrote:

lowing wrote:

Pierre wrote:

OK, but WHY do you limit your own possibilities? Why did you say you would not become a doctor, lawyer, postal worker, president, but instead an aircraft mechanic? What made you make that choice?
I like airplanes.......Some like biology, some like the law...........Tell ya what, why don't you just come out and say where you are going with this, instead of trying to manuver me into a corner for the kill.
Bummer, you don't play chess, do you?

The point is, we are all the product of our ancestors, our education, our environment, you name it.  When we decide on something, we base our decision on what we know, what we have learned, how we were teached, among other things. Race is a determining factor, as are other factors, such as social status and skills, wealth, etc. All these factors are connected to each-other.

Remember what Braddock wrote:

Braddock wrote:

I don't think anyone at any stage argued that personal responsibility wasn't ultimately what is needed to succeed to any degree in life. What some people were arguing was that demographically most African Americans don't have the same head starts in life that many white people do and as such levels of education and social awareness in relation to such issues are more likely to be worse in African American communities. As Cam pointed out on numerous occasions social awareness doesn't magically appear at birth, it needs to be instilled and if society doesn't address it's social problems and continually work to improve awareness then the problems will not get any better...and people like you who choose to dismiss statistics and the existence of such social problems only perpetuate the cycle.

It's very easy for white America to point the finger at the problems of the African American community when they themselves have had a few hundred years head start on the back of work done by slaves.
As to my initial question - if you believe personal responsibility is key to everything, and everyone can become what he wants if he's willing to work for it, then why aren't you president of the US? - your answer was that we are all different, some may find sollace in being a doctor, some a pilot, some a small business owner, some a teacher, some a postal worker, some a truck driver. Yes, we are all different, but why? What makes the difference?

What in fact you were saying was that we don't decide for our own, but we make our decisions based on our prior knowledge, our education, and the social status of our parents and family. If you are a WASP, you have definitely received a head start compared to a kid who grew up in the ghetto.

So, your decision in becoming an aircraft mechanic was probably not only being founded by your love of airplanes.
I hear what you are saying, but I can not agree. We are all products of what we ALLOW ourselves to become. We know the difference between right and wrong, if we did not, a robber wouldn't run from the cops, they would stand there and wonder what the problem was. Thus, if you know what is right and wrong, regardless of your GGG grandfathers problems, YOU are responsible to conduct yourself accordingly. If you do not, blaming MY GGG grandfather for it, is bullshit and unacceptable.

Last edited by lowing (2008-07-08 07:05:56)

2008-07-08 07:11:53
Scorpion0x17
can detect anyone's visible post count...
+691|7070|Cambridge (UK)

lowing wrote:

Braddock wrote:

lowing wrote:

Already showed where the media and the black community acknowledges that he was speaking mainly to the black community......An inconvenient fact that is cleverly ignored by my opponents.

I know this is not racism, the point of the thread was to point out that I was called a racist for basically preaching personal responsibility in another thread and was called a racist for it. Here, Obama does the same thing. That is kinda sorta why I said Obama is a racist according to YOU and not according to ME.
Again lowing you are missing the point everyone else has been making to you. The issue of personal responsibility is not the crux of the racism accusations you have faced, in fact I doubt anyone on this forum would not advocate personal responsibility in any society. You've been accused of racism (or at the very least having an inherent negative bias towards the African American population) because of a tendency to presume blackness in certain scenarios and because you have been known to dwell on the issue of skin colour and black culture when the social problems often apply to society as a whole.
Then perhaps the threads need to speak of high crime rates, period, instead of black crime rates, I will then post accordingly.....your denial that the black community has some unique social problems that needs to be overcome ( as acknowledged by Obama, Rock Cosby and the rest of the media etc..) is rediculous. In fact, I think you pretty much know this, but to acknowledge it, would deflate your argument that I am racist completely, and I know you can not have that.

You, not me, are the one who makes the DISTINCTION of social problems and their causes... I speak of individuality, you speak of slavery and civil rights issues.....So which is it? Are you now telling me that white members of society are now "suffereing" for the effects of slavery and civil rights as their reason for irresponsible behavior and action? Tell me again who is making distinctions??

I did not "dwell" on black culture, it was the topic of discussion Braddock.
But it's not 'personal responsibility' (or the lack of it) that is the cause for the higher rate of criminality amongst black Americans.

Poverty causes crime.

Full stop.
2008-07-08 07:16:24
lowing
Banned
+1,662|6955|USA

Scorpion0x17 wrote:

lowing wrote:

Braddock wrote:


Again lowing you are missing the point everyone else has been making to you. The issue of personal responsibility is not the crux of the racism accusations you have faced, in fact I doubt anyone on this forum would not advocate personal responsibility in any society. You've been accused of racism (or at the very least having an inherent negative bias towards the African American population) because of a tendency to presume blackness in certain scenarios and because you have been known to dwell on the issue of skin colour and black culture when the social problems often apply to society as a whole.
Then perhaps the threads need to speak of high crime rates, period, instead of black crime rates, I will then post accordingly.....your denial that the black community has some unique social problems that needs to be overcome ( as acknowledged by Obama, Rock Cosby and the rest of the media etc..) is rediculous. In fact, I think you pretty much know this, but to acknowledge it, would deflate your argument that I am racist completely, and I know you can not have that.

You, not me, are the one who makes the DISTINCTION of social problems and their causes... I speak of individuality, you speak of slavery and civil rights issues.....So which is it? Are you now telling me that white members of society are now "suffereing" for the effects of slavery and civil rights as their reason for irresponsible behavior and action? Tell me again who is making distinctions??

I did not "dwell" on black culture, it was the topic of discussion Braddock.
But it's not 'personal responsibility' (or the lack of it) that is the cause for the higher rate of criminality amongst black Americans.

Poverty causes crime.

Full stop.
I see so you can not be poor without becoming a criminal?? Of course this is not true

Or is it possible that poor people can still be law abiding citizens? Of course they can....What would the difference be then, if not personal responsibility, personal choices and actions?
2008-07-08 07:22:10
Braddock
Agitator
+916|6594|Éire

lowing wrote:

Then perhaps the threads need to speak of high crime rates, period, instead of black crime rates, I will then post accordingly.....your denial that the black community has some unique social problems that needs to be overcome ( as acknowledged by Obama, Rock Cosby and the rest of the media etc..) is rediculous. In fact, I think you pretty much know this, but to acknowledge it, would deflate your argument that I am racist completely, and I know you can not have that.
You admit the Black community has problems and yet when anyone puts forward suggestions as to where the root of the problems may lay and how they may be addressed you dismiss them completely and simply say people of this generation need to 'snap out of it' and take responsibility for themselves. How does that help anything?

You also like to continually say that people on the opposite side of your argument use slavery as "an excuse" because this sounds a lot catchier than the actual truth which is that they are merely suggesting that inherited social problems that have their roots many generations deep may be contributing factors towards the problems of this generation...not an excuse, an attempt to understand where the problems come from.

lowing wrote:

You, not me, are the one who makes the DISTINCTION of social problems and their causes... I speak of individuality, you speak of slavery and civil rights issues.....So which is it? Are you now telling me that white members of society are now "suffereing" for the effects of slavery and civil rights as their reason for irresponsible behavior and action? Tell me again who is making distinctions??

I did not "dwell" on black culture, it was the topic of discussion Braddock.
Many black families have done well to shake off the effects of the past and have become upwardly mobile members of society, many still live below the poverty line and have to contend with all the social ills that entails i.e Lack of education, drug problems, lack of social awareness and by extension lack of social responsibility. While pretty much all black people had to start from a tougher position than white people at the end of the apartheid era of American history this does not mean there was no such thing as poor white people and similarly many poor whites have clawed their way out of their inherited social problems while many still remain stuck in the cycle of poverty...is that so hard to understand?
2008-07-08 07:26:00
Scorpion0x17
can detect anyone's visible post count...
+691|7070|Cambridge (UK)

lowing wrote:

Scorpion0x17 wrote:

lowing wrote:


Then perhaps the threads need to speak of high crime rates, period, instead of black crime rates, I will then post accordingly.....your denial that the black community has some unique social problems that needs to be overcome ( as acknowledged by Obama, Rock Cosby and the rest of the media etc..) is rediculous. In fact, I think you pretty much know this, but to acknowledge it, would deflate your argument that I am racist completely, and I know you can not have that.

You, not me, are the one who makes the DISTINCTION of social problems and their causes... I speak of individuality, you speak of slavery and civil rights issues.....So which is it? Are you now telling me that white members of society are now "suffereing" for the effects of slavery and civil rights as their reason for irresponsible behavior and action? Tell me again who is making distinctions??

I did not "dwell" on black culture, it was the topic of discussion Braddock.
But it's not 'personal responsibility' (or the lack of it) that is the cause for the higher rate of criminality amongst black Americans.

Poverty causes crime.

Full stop.
I see so you can not be poor without becoming a criminal?? Of course this is not true

Or is it possible that poor people can still be law abiding citizens? Of course they can....What would the difference be then, if not personal responsibility, personal choices and actions?
Believe it or not, not everyone has the choice to be a good upstanding member of the community.

Some people are just incapable of that. Just like some people are incapable of walking.

Poverty increases the likely-hood of a person not being able to be a good citizen.

The evidence from every country around world, regardless of race, colour or creed, is that poverty is the root cause of most crime.

It's sounds too simple to be true, I know, but it really is that simple.

(oh, and if you don't get why some people in poverty would be incapable of being a good citizen, then I shall refer you to the response I gave to you informing us that you live in the mountains...)
2008-07-08 07:26:18
ZombieVampire!
The Gecko
+69|6131

lowing wrote:

Already showed where the media and the black community acknowledges that he was speaking mainly to the black community......An inconvenient fact that is cleverly ignored by my opponents.

I know this is not racism, the point of the thread was to point out that I was called a racist for basically preaching personal responsibility in another thread and was called a racist for it. Here, Obama does the same thing. That is kinda sorta why I said Obama is a racist according to YOU and not according to ME.
The post I made right above you pointed out the difference.
2008-07-08 07:30:11
Braddock
Agitator
+916|6594|Éire

lowing wrote:

Scorpion0x17 wrote:

Poverty causes crime.

Full stop.
I see so you can not be poor without becoming a criminal?? Of course this is not true

Or is it possible that poor people can still be law abiding citizens? Of course they can....What would the difference be then, if not personal responsibility, personal choices and actions?
This is true on an individual basis but in terms of poverty as a wider social problem crime goes hand in hand with poverty sadly and that's just the way it is. Similarly your argument that each individual should take responsibility for themselves is a sound one and many may in fact stand up and take responsibility but in the wider social scenario the contributing factors will play out and have an effect; in the case of the black community these factors would include inherited poverty cycles that go back many generations into the days of segregated America.
2008-07-08 08:36:01
Pierre
I hunt criminals down for a living
+68|6979|Belgium

lowing wrote:

I hear what you are saying, but I can not agree. We are all products of what we ALLOW ourselves to become. We know the difference between right and wrong, if we did not, a robber wouldn't run from the cops, they would stand there and wonder what the problem was. Thus, if you know what is right and wrong, regardless of your GGG grandfathers problems, YOU are responsible to conduct yourself accordingly. If you do not, blaming MY GGG grandfather for it, is bullshit and unacceptable.
No, you're mixing personal responsability with how you were raised and what 'packages' you received at the starting point.

Those 'packages' are your education, values, knowledge, social status and skills, etc., and you can't change anything about that (WASP vs ghetto kid). Race plays a role in it.  It's your personal responsability to achieve your dreams with what you've got. Some people do, some don't.
2008-07-08 09:07:57
Braddock
Agitator
+916|6594|Éire

Pierre wrote:

lowing wrote:

I hear what you are saying, but I can not agree. We are all products of what we ALLOW ourselves to become. We know the difference between right and wrong, if we did not, a robber wouldn't run from the cops, they would stand there and wonder what the problem was. Thus, if you know what is right and wrong, regardless of your GGG grandfathers problems, YOU are responsible to conduct yourself accordingly. If you do not, blaming MY GGG grandfather for it, is bullshit and unacceptable.
No, you're mixing personal responsability with how you were raised and what 'packages' you received at the starting point.

Those 'packages' are your education, values, knowledge, social status and skills, etc., and you can't change anything about that (WASP vs ghetto kid). Race plays a role in it.  It's your personal responsability to achieve your dreams with what you've got. Some people do, some don't.
Well lowing has informed us before that he started out with very few breaks in life and still done okay for himself...his problem is he can't understand why everyone else can't do the same, as though we all have the same psychological makeup and attitudes or something.
2008-07-08 09:39:18
lowing
Banned
+1,662|6955|USA
To everyone:

                What this all boils down to is this, life isn't fair, I know this. There are privileged whites and there are privileged blacks. There are poor whites and blacks. There are handicapped whites and blacks, There are blacks and whites that will get sick in the prime of their lives. All I am saying is, regardless of the past, sickness, handicaps,or whatever other shitty hand you are dealt, we ALL have a responsibility to ourselves, our families and our society to become law abiding citizens. For those that need assistance, there are programs to help, however, regardless of whatever "reasons" you want to come up with, WE are all responsible and charged with doing the right things. Everything else is smoke and mirrors. The black community has its problems that ARE unique unto itself generally speaking, I addressed these. I offered present attitude rather than the past for its problems. Once that past has been corrected, which it has, the ball is now in the other court. Personal responsibility and a change of attitude is the ONLY thing now, that will allow us all to move forward together. The chip on the shoulder must disappear. This now the black communities problem and not society's as a whole.

When you cut away all of the bullshit in all of these threads, this is what is left. Life isn't fair, deal with that fact that yours may not be, responsibly, and do not infringe on others. Be you black or white or yellow or green, you will get no sympathy from me for your infringements. Slavery or not, civil rights or not, black or white, rich or poor. You guys all say you acknowledge this and we all seem to agree on this, but you insist that I am generalizing and being a racist because I applied these words specifically to the black community in a thread that was SPECIFICALLY written about the black community....I apologize, next time I will not assume anything, including the obvious, is understood, that I was speaking in generalities, and that I was not including those members of the black community that were in fact law abiding citizens and hard working members of society.....I will try and come up with a sig that will cover such occasions so there will be no more mis-understandings.

you guys know this already, you know damn well what I was saying and what I meant.

Last edited by lowing (2008-07-08 09:54:29)

 

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