No I simply do not buy that social issues of 150 years ago, plays a part in today's 20 year olds decisions, you seem to think it does. I say it is a cop out.Braddock wrote:
Lowing you keep going on about you have eyes and ears...PLEASE USE THEM.lowing wrote:
No shit Cam, tell that to your brother and others who insist that slavery and pre-civil rights issues are the reason for the lack of personal responsibilty with individuals within the black community today, instead of laying the blame at their feet, where it belongs.....the "shirking" of responsibilities is being done by your camp. I blame individuals for their actionsCameronPoe wrote:
How does the 'black social issue' differ from the 'white social issue', pray tell? Why the skin-colour distinction? Why refer specifically about an issue as if it pertains to skin pigmentation? I offered you an out on a plate and you refused. Odd to say the least.#
At the end of the day it's about shirking your responsibilities and it doesn't matter what colour your skin is.
The black social issues have been discussed at length, and you know it, if you do not know what they are, then you are not as worldly as you like to pretend you are. If you feel you need a recap, go back and hit those threads.
Also to remind you, I didn't start any of those threads, I commented in them. When a thread is started about white trash, I will comment on white trash and not black social issues. As it is, when a thread is started about black social issues, I will comment on black social issues.
Pretty much every one has agreed that personal responsibility is the most crucial factor in becoming a socially responsible, upwardly mobile member of society. We agree with you on that.
What people have argued here is that social factors play a role in different individual's chances of developing a strong sense of social responsibility and inherited social problems, which you seem to refuse to believe in, contribute negatively to these chances. This is not an excuse for people not being socially responsible, it is just an assessment of why they may have ended up as they have.
Your solution to the ills of American society seems to be just that everyone should 'snap out of it'...good luck with that.
Since when are poor people also fatherless? Where is that stereotype found in??Braddock wrote:
Well he didn't mention race so from his own words he was addressing poor people.lowing wrote:
Nope, like I said EVERYONE could take his advice.Braddock wrote:
So did Obama's speech not apply to white trash who shirk their social responsibilities? If not, why not?
And if you admit it did indeed apply to white trash also (and likewise to all other ethnic groups) then your entire thread is built on a racially biased inference.
Even the media and the black community acknowledges who he was addressing....Sorry if you do not like that, but I already showed where that is true. I know it is impossible, because your argument would collapse, but set aside your PC and tell me who he was addressing.
Since it is the highest office in the US, everyone should try to reach it. So, why wouldn't you want to reach it? What's keeping you from it?lowing wrote:
What makes you think I would want to be president of the US?Pierre wrote:
I haven't read all of the posts, but I just wanted to ask you Lowing: if you believe personal responsability is key to everything, and everyone can become what he wants if he's willing to work for it, then why aren't you president of the US?
Just because you may not make it to the astronaut ranks, does not mean your alternative should be a drug dealer.
150? Try 50 for black emancipation. Personal responsibility is the only way this cycle will be broken - but that comes from good parenting and education. Provided the kid doesn't play truant all the time education is covered (save for detrimental peer pressures from malcontents from similiarly dysfuntional homes) - what isn't covered is good parenting.lowing wrote:
1. Never said you did....and I have sais repeatedly, REASONS are irrelevent especially 150 year old reasons....Personal responsibility is the only way this "cycle" will be broken.....Society has done its part, it has changed for the better of all.
Well you should be more precise in your language and not karma people who advocate slavery and provide sourceless race-based stats.lowing wrote:
2. NO!! The people of which I speak of, in a black social issue thread are black. My opinions, however, would and do apply to everyone. I do not usually speak of black social issues or white meth labs, in threads where Islam is the topic. To answer your specific question the color of their skin is irrelevent, attitude is not. Still personal responsibility trumps all, with no excuses for failure, not even slavery or civil rights.
Obama is addressing personal responsibility. He isn't addressing it on a skin-pigmentation basis. You assume that he is. That is telling.lowing wrote:
3. LOL, Cam I started this thread as a direct response to you and others for saying I was a racist for basically addressing the samething Obama did.
You see no difference, yet you made it a point to inform us all of your "black friend" and not just your friend......why the distinction Cam? See, I can play that bullshit as well.
We are all different, some may find sollace in being a doctor, some a pilot, some a small business owner, some a teacher, some a postal worker, some a truck driver. So no, not everyone should be abligated to try to reach president, EVERYONE should try to reach a point in life where they can contribute positively to society.Pierre wrote:
Since it is the highest office in the US, everyone should try to reach it. So, why wouldn't you want to reach it? What's keeping you from it?lowing wrote:
What makes you think I would want to be president of the US?Pierre wrote:
I haven't read all of the posts, but I just wanted to ask you Lowing: if you believe personal responsability is key to everything, and everyone can become what he wants if he's willing to work for it, then why aren't you president of the US?
Just because you may not make it to the astronaut ranks, does not mean your alternative should be a drug dealer.
1. agreed no argument hereCameronPoe wrote:
150? Try 50 for black emancipation. Personal responsibility is the only way this cycle will be broken - but that comes from good parenting and education. Provided the kid doesn't play truant all the time education is covered (save for detrimental peer pressures from malcontents from similiarly dysfuntional homes) - what isn't covered is good parenting.lowing wrote:
1. Never said you did....and I have sais repeatedly, REASONS are irrelevent especially 150 year old reasons....Personal responsibility is the only way this "cycle" will be broken.....Society has done its part, it has changed for the better of all.Well you should be more precise in your language and not karma people who advocate slavery and provide sourceless race-based stats.lowing wrote:
2. NO!! The people of which I speak of, in a black social issue thread are black. My opinions, however, would and do apply to everyone. I do not usually speak of black social issues or white meth labs, in threads where Islam is the topic. To answer your specific question the color of their skin is irrelevent, attitude is not. Still personal responsibility trumps all, with no excuses for failure, not even slavery or civil rights.Obama is addressing personal responsibility. He isn't addressing it on a skin-pigmentation basis. You assume that he is. That is telling.lowing wrote:
3. LOL, Cam I started this thread as a direct response to you and others for saying I was a racist for basically addressing the samething Obama did.
You see no difference, yet you made it a point to inform us all of your "black friend" and not just your friend......why the distinction Cam? See, I can play that bullshit as well.
2. I karma'ed a SINGLE post not a poster, I take no responsibility for his words or actions otherwise. I take back nothing as t owhat I have said, when the topic is black social issues, I will speak to THAT point.
3. Nope Cam, he was addressing the black community, the black community acknowledges it as well as the media. Already showed that to you..sorry
I agree, but WHY should not everyone be abligated to try to reach president? Why stop at being a doctor, postal worker, etc. Why is that the limit?lowing wrote:
We are all different, some may find sollace in being a doctor, some a pilot, some a small business owner, some a teacher, some a postal worker, some a truck driver. So no, not everyone should be abligated to try to reach president, EVERYONE should try to reach a point in life where they can contribute positively to society.Pierre wrote:
Since it is the highest office in the US, everyone should try to reach it. So, why wouldn't you want to reach it? What's keeping you from it?lowing wrote:
What makes you think I would want to be president of the US?
Just because you may not make it to the astronaut ranks, does not mean your alternative should be a drug dealer.
So you are insinuating that 'the black community', Obama and you regard 'the black ommunity' as lazy, good-for-nothing shirkers?lowing wrote:
3. Nope Cam, he was addressing the black community, the black community acknowledges it as well as the media. Already showed that to you..sorry
And there are plenty of sociological and economical arguments as to how crime contributes to society.lowing wrote:
We are all different, some may find sollace in being a doctor, some a pilot, some a small business owner, some a teacher, some a postal worker, some a truck driver. So no, not everyone should be abligated to try to reach president, EVERYONE should try to reach a point in life where they can contribute positively to society.Pierre wrote:
Since it is the highest office in the US, everyone should try to reach it. So, why wouldn't you want to reach it? What's keeping you from it?lowing wrote:
What makes you think I would want to be president of the US?
Just because you may not make it to the astronaut ranks, does not mean your alternative should be a drug dealer.
the limits are personal. It is your life, you are free to pursue what you will....................................or notPierre wrote:
I agree, but WHY should not everyone be abligated to try to reach president? Why stop at being a doctor, postal worker, etc. Why is that the limit?lowing wrote:
We are all different, some may find sollace in being a doctor, some a pilot, some a small business owner, some a teacher, some a postal worker, some a truck driver. So no, not everyone should be abligated to try to reach president, EVERYONE should try to reach a point in life where they can contribute positively to society.Pierre wrote:
Since it is the highest office in the US, everyone should try to reach it. So, why wouldn't you want to reach it? What's keeping you from it?
Nope, that would be a gross generalization, those adjectives only apply to the people that qualify for that discription IN THE BLACK COMMUNITY. Which was the topic of discussion.CameronPoe wrote:
So you are insinuating that 'the black community', Obama and you regard 'the black ommunity' as lazy, good-for-nothing shirkers?lowing wrote:
3. Nope Cam, he was addressing the black community, the black community acknowledges it as well as the media. Already showed that to you..sorry
Braddock and others offered, slavery and pre-civil rights for the reason of the black communities social problems.....
I offered the fact that the gangsta lifestyle is celebrated, the fact that rap artists and their hip hop killa cop lyrics are hero worshipped instead of successful mainstream contributors to society, and the fact that successful mainstream black Americans are dismissed as sell outs, for the reason for the social problems with the black youth of today. All of these goes towards personal choices, none of which is beyond the control of the individual. I was crusified for it.
Now, I admit my comments are a generalization, every bit as much as using slavery and civil rights as the reason for every black persons problems.
As soon as "my daddy hated me so I am innocent", is admissable in court, I will buy into it.ZombieVampire! wrote:
And there are plenty of sociological and economical arguments as to how crime contributes to society.lowing wrote:
We are all different, some may find sollace in being a doctor, some a pilot, some a small business owner, some a teacher, some a postal worker, some a truck driver. So no, not everyone should be abligated to try to reach president, EVERYONE should try to reach a point in life where they can contribute positively to society.Pierre wrote:
Since it is the highest office in the US, everyone should try to reach it. So, why wouldn't you want to reach it? What's keeping you from it?
actually I take that back...........it is still bullshitlowing wrote:
As soon as "my daddy hated me so I am innocent", is admissable in court, I will buy into it.ZombieVampire! wrote:
And there are plenty of sociological and economical arguments as to how crime contributes to society.lowing wrote:
We are all different, some may find sollace in being a doctor, some a pilot, some a small business owner, some a teacher, some a postal worker, some a truck driver. So no, not everyone should be abligated to try to reach president, EVERYONE should try to reach a point in life where they can contribute positively to society.
He's black, he can't be racist.
Small hourglass island
Always raining and foggy
Use an umbrella
Always raining and foggy
Use an umbrella
None of those things are the preserve of black people. Are there not hispanic, white, triad and other assorted gangs? Do they not also listen to the likes of these rap artists? Is not Eminem non-black? Why the obsession with blacks? It ain't limited to them!lowing wrote:
I offered the fact that the gangsta lifestyle is celebrated, the fact that rap artists and their hip hop killa cop lyrics are hero worshipped instead of successful mainstream contributors to society, and the fact that successful mainstream black Americans are dismissed as sell outs, for the reason for the social problems with the black youth of today. All of these goes towards personal choices, none of which is beyond the control of the individual. I was crusified for it.
Because it's a grand stereotype.CameronPoe wrote:
None of those things are the preserve of black people. Are there not hispanic, white, triad and other assorted gangs? Do they not also listen to the likes of these rap artists? Is not Eminem non-black? Why the obsession with blacks? It ain't limited to them!lowing wrote:
I offered the fact that the gangsta lifestyle is celebrated, the fact that rap artists and their hip hop killa cop lyrics are hero worshipped instead of successful mainstream contributors to society, and the fact that successful mainstream black Americans are dismissed as sell outs, for the reason for the social problems with the black youth of today. All of these goes towards personal choices, none of which is beyond the control of the individual. I was crusified for it.
And that's what lowing deals in, stereotypes.
Small hourglass island
Always raining and foggy
Use an umbrella
Always raining and foggy
Use an umbrella
Uncomfortable information....must use plan B!CameronPoe wrote:
None of those things are the preserve of black people. Are there not hispanic, white, triad and other assorted gangs? Do they not also listen to the likes of these rap artists? Is not Eminem non-black? Why the obsession with blacks? It ain't limited to them!lowing wrote:
I offered the fact that the gangsta lifestyle is celebrated, the fact that rap artists and their hip hop killa cop lyrics are hero worshipped instead of successful mainstream contributors to society, and the fact that successful mainstream black Americans are dismissed as sell outs, for the reason for the social problems with the black youth of today. All of these goes towards personal choices, none of which is beyond the control of the individual. I was crusified for it.
Don't worry lowing. I got your back!
Welllllllll..........Cammmmmmmm....................THE TOPIC WAS BLACK SOCIAL ISSUES.................it was not white social issues or hispanic social issues. Also GENERALALLY SPEAKING nothing is a "preserve" of anyone. So your point is mute. We are speaking generally Cam, since we are not capable of speaking for everyone. So find a new fucking defense for your arguments other than racist and generalizing. It would appear, you are not capable of posting a defense with out your old reliable catch alls.CameronPoe wrote:
None of those things are the preserve of black people. Are there not hispanic, white, triad and other assorted gangs? Do they not also listen to the likes of these rap artists? Is not Eminem non-black? Why the obsession with blacks? It ain't limited to them!lowing wrote:
I offered the fact that the gangsta lifestyle is celebrated, the fact that rap artists and their hip hop killa cop lyrics are hero worshipped instead of successful mainstream contributors to society, and the fact that successful mainstream black Americans are dismissed as sell outs, for the reason for the social problems with the black youth of today. All of these goes towards personal choices, none of which is beyond the control of the individual. I was crucified for it.
Do not conveniently leave out the portion of my post where I admit to generalizing..just like Braddock......Then accuse me of generalizing, in so many words..
Besides, if you are gunna sit there and try and tell me that gangsta glamourizing and rap artist hero worship is a problem amongst the white community you are desporate for an argument. and pretty much mis-informed... Does that mean NO white people fall into this catergory, of course not, however, it is not the norm......Anyway, I think you already knew that, just can't admit it.
I have no obsession with anyone Cam, unless of course by your observations, you have an obsession with Israel. I am interested in social issues in America, nothing more noting less.
If you really aren't concerned about race lowing it would just be about the social issue itself, not the race of the individual.lowing wrote:
Welllllllll..........Cammmmmmmm....................THE TOPIC WAS BLACK SOCIAL ISSUES.................it was not white social issues or hispanic social issues. Also GENERALALLY SPEAKING nothing is a "preserve" of anyone. So your point is mute. We are speaking generally Cam, since we are not capable of speaking for everyone. So find a new fucking defense for your arguments other than racist and generalizing. It would appear, you are not capable of posting a defense with out your old reliable catch alls.CameronPoe wrote:
None of those things are the preserve of black people. Are there not hispanic, white, triad and other assorted gangs? Do they not also listen to the likes of these rap artists? Is not Eminem non-black? Why the obsession with blacks? It ain't limited to them!lowing wrote:
I offered the fact that the gangsta lifestyle is celebrated, the fact that rap artists and their hip hop killa cop lyrics are hero worshipped instead of successful mainstream contributors to society, and the fact that successful mainstream black Americans are dismissed as sell outs, for the reason for the social problems with the black youth of today. All of these goes towards personal choices, none of which is beyond the control of the individual. I was crucified for it.
Do not conveniently leave out the portion of my post where I admit to generalizing..just like Braddock......Then accuse me of generalizing, in so many words..
Besides, if you are gunna sit there and try and tell me that gangsta glamourizing and rap artist hero worship is a problem amongst the white community you are desporate for an argument. and pretty much mis-informed... Does that mean NO white people fall into this catergory, of course not, however, it is not the norm......Anyway, I think you already knew that, just can't admit it.
I have no obsession with anyone Cam, unless of course by your observations, you have an obsession with Israel. I am interested in social issues in America, nothing more noting less.
You preach individualism and yet continually revert to racial groupings. What Obama spoke about in his speech referred to people of any colour, whether the media or anyone else interpret that differently or not does not change the words that came out of his mouth.
If you truly believe in the individual then stop going on about entire cross sections of the population and how you perceive them.
What am I supposed to be defending. I'm pointing out your general view of blacks, one I don't share. Others have recognised this also. It's quite plain from everything you've posted thus far. And the word is 'moot'.lowing wrote:
Welllllllll..........Cammmmmmmm....................THE TOPIC WAS BLACK SOCIAL ISSUES.................it was not white social issues or hispanic social issues. Also GENERALALLY SPEAKING nothing is a "preserve" of anyone. So your point is mute. We are speaking generally Cam, since we are not capable of speaking for everyone. So find a new fucking defense for your arguments other than racist and generalizing. It would appear, you are not capable of posting a defense with out your old reliable catch alls.
Don't worry lowing, we know you love generalising. It's what makes your posts so easy to tear apart.lowing wrote:
Do not conveniently leave out the portion of my post where I admit to generalizing..just like Braddock......Then accuse me of generalizing, in so many words..
Why differentiate on skin colour? I'm misinformed about rap artist hero worship amongst white people? How many millions do those rap artists make? It ain't just black people buying their music. They top the charts over here where blacks are in an extreme minority. So again, what's your beef with skin colour? Have you ever heard of gang crime in Glasgow, Scotland? Not exactly a bastion of black culture. You seem to take quite a dim view of black people. You have singled them out for 'gangsta' attitude when white people engage in such nonsense also. Why the emphasis???lowing wrote:
Besides, if you are gunna sit there and try and tell me that gangsta glamourizing and rap artist hero worship is a problem amongst the white community you are desporate for an argument. and pretty much mis-informed... Does that mean NO white people fall into this catergory, of course not, however, it is not the norm......Anyway, I think you already knew that, just can't admit it.
I have a deep deep sustained interest in Israel. I wouldn't call it an obsession. It's an interest in global politics in a pivotal region of the world more like.lowing wrote:
I have no obsession with anyone Cam, unless of course by your observations, you have an obsession with Israel. I am interested in social issues in America, nothing more noting less.
I do preach individualism, yet I am not the thread police..........the thread was specifically about the black community and I responded to the black community specifically. YOU are the one that concentrates on the skin color of people Braddock, YOU are the one that uses the past of a race for their problems today.....I HAVE set color aside and focused on the individual, and that individual needs to exercise personal responsibility.... Race has nothing to do with that...........That fact that the thread itself focused on BLACK COMMUNITY, I focused my posts on BLACK COMMUNITY personal responsibility.....I know, you refuse to acknowledge that point. SInce it goes against your insistance that I am a racist... .I can live with that.Braddock wrote:
If you really aren't concerned about race lowing it would just be about the social issue itself, not the race of the individual.lowing wrote:
Welllllllll..........Cammmmmmmm....................THE TOPIC WAS BLACK SOCIAL ISSUES.................it was not white social issues or hispanic social issues. Also GENERALALLY SPEAKING nothing is a "preserve" of anyone. So your point is mute. We are speaking generally Cam, since we are not capable of speaking for everyone. So find a new fucking defense for your arguments other than racist and generalizing. It would appear, you are not capable of posting a defense with out your old reliable catch alls.CameronPoe wrote:
None of those things are the preserve of black people. Are there not hispanic, white, triad and other assorted gangs? Do they not also listen to the likes of these rap artists? Is not Eminem non-black? Why the obsession with blacks? It ain't limited to them!
Do not conveniently leave out the portion of my post where I admit to generalizing..just like Braddock......Then accuse me of generalizing, in so many words..
Besides, if you are gunna sit there and try and tell me that gangsta glamourizing and rap artist hero worship is a problem amongst the white community you are desporate for an argument. and pretty much mis-informed... Does that mean NO white people fall into this catergory, of course not, however, it is not the norm......Anyway, I think you already knew that, just can't admit it.
I have no obsession with anyone Cam, unless of course by your observations, you have an obsession with Israel. I am interested in social issues in America, nothing more noting less.
You preach individualism and yet continually revert to racial groupings. What Obama spoke about in his speech referred to people of any colour, whether the media or anyone else interpret that differently or not does not change the words that came out of his mouth.
If you truly believe in the individual then stop going on about entire cross sections of the population and how you perceive them.
If YOU can say with blanket coverage, that slavery and pre-civil rights is the reason for people s problems............Then I most ceertainly can say that lack of personal responsibility is the reason for peoples problems......Get over yourself.
You are indeed a masterdebater, Cam and I am tired of repeating myself, and even more tired of your bubbaloesque approach, so lets get to the bottom line since you will not address what is posted in the context that it is postedCameronPoe wrote:
What am I supposed to be defending. I'm pointing out your general view of blacks, one I don't share. Others have recognised this also. It's quite plain from everything you've posted thus far. And the word is 'moot'.lowing wrote:
Welllllllll..........Cammmmmmmm....................THE TOPIC WAS BLACK SOCIAL ISSUES.................it was not white social issues or hispanic social issues. Also GENERALALLY SPEAKING nothing is a "preserve" of anyone. So your point is mute. We are speaking generally Cam, since we are not capable of speaking for everyone. So find a new fucking defense for your arguments other than racist and generalizing. It would appear, you are not capable of posting a defense with out your old reliable catch alls.Don't worry lowing, we know you love generalising. It's what makes your posts so easy to tear apart.lowing wrote:
Do not conveniently leave out the portion of my post where I admit to generalizing..just like Braddock......Then accuse me of generalizing, in so many words..Why differentiate on skin colour? I'm misinformed about rap artist hero worship amongst white people? How many millions do those rap artists make? It ain't just black people buying their music. They top the charts over here where blacks are in an extreme minority. So again, what's your beef with skin colour? Have you ever heard of gang crime in Glasgow, Scotland? Not exactly a bastion of black culture. You seem to take quite a dim view of black people. You have singled them out for 'gangsta' attitude when white people engage in such nonsense also. Why the emphasis???lowing wrote:
Besides, if you are gunna sit there and try and tell me that gangsta glamourizing and rap artist hero worship is a problem amongst the white community you are desporate for an argument. and pretty much mis-informed... Does that mean NO white people fall into this catergory, of course not, however, it is not the norm......Anyway, I think you already knew that, just can't admit it.I have a deep deep sustained interest in Israel. I wouldn't call it an obsession. It's an interest in global politics in a pivotal region of the world more like.lowing wrote:
I have no obsession with anyone Cam, unless of course by your observations, you have an obsession with Israel. I am interested in social issues in America, nothing more noting less.
Lets start there. Yes or no answers for now if you please and we can then expand on the responses.
Do you really believe that my opinions of people and their responsibilities to themselves, their families, or thier society changes based on skin color?
Do you HONESTLY think I have more respect for white trash, than I do a middle class black man?
Do you think I judge white people dressed like gangstas and sagging and acting a fool differently than I do a black person?
Again for now, just a simple yes or no
Didn't you create the topic?lowing wrote:
Welllllllll..........Cammmmmmmm....................THE TOPIC WAS BLACK SOCIAL ISSUES.................it was not white social issues or hispanic social issues.
You don't seem to have as many threads about these white groups though lowing, why is that?lowing wrote:
Do you really believe that my opinions of people and their responsibilities to themselves, their families, or thier society changes based on skin color?
Do you HONESTLY think I have more respect for white trash, than I do a middle class black man?
Do you think I judge white people dressed like gangstas and sagging and acting a fool differently than I do a black person?
OK, but WHY do you limit your own possibilities? Why did you say you would not become a doctor, lawyer, postal worker, president, but instead an aircraft mechanic? What made you make that choice?lowing wrote:
the limits are personal. It is your life, you are free to pursue what you will....................................or notPierre wrote:
I agree, but WHY should not everyone be abligated to try to reach president? Why stop at being a doctor, postal worker, etc. Why is that the limit?lowing wrote:
We are all different, some may find sollace in being a doctor, some a pilot, some a small business owner, some a teacher, some a postal worker, some a truck driver. So no, not everyone should be abligated to try to reach president, EVERYONE should try to reach a point in life where they can contribute positively to society.