Yeah as soon as you interject political correctness. However, I speak with none, and call it like I see it, even if it hurtsZombieVampire! wrote:
That's not what I'm saying. But there's a difference between saying something general to audience who need it more, and saying something specific to a general audience.
Can you at least see how there might be a percieved difference, even if there was no actual difference?
Last edited by lowing (2008-07-07 03:49:38)
He knows better than that, and we all know no politician will get specific in regards to race issues. However, you and I are not bound by such restrictions, so are you admitting that that comment was addressed to the black community and its social issues or not?ZombieVampire! wrote:
He was certainly talking to a relatively poor, black audience, and he certainly wouldn't have made that comment to a rich white audience. But if he'd gotten up in front of a general audience (say, at a political rally) and said "poor black people need to stop blaming others" there would have been a riot.
Last edited by lowing (2008-07-07 03:58:48)
Blatant lie. You simply stated that he addressed a 'black audience'. No ifs, no buts.lowing wrote:
I said poor black people ( since they were they topic of discussion) needs to start taking responsibility for themselves, instead of blaming others. I can and would say the same thing about one of any race.
I've stated that several times. That doesn't mean I agree that your comments can be equated.lowing wrote:
He knows better than that, and we all know no politician will get specific in regards to race issues. However, you and I are not bound by such restrictions, so are you admitting that that comment was addressed to the black community and its social issues or not?
Please lets keep it simple and without PC............do we agree or do we not agree on the target of those remarks?
Ummmm Cam? everyone other than you, that includes the all of the media, which I post one, says he was addressing the black audience.CameronPoe wrote:
Blatant lie. You simply stated that he addressed a 'black audience'. No ifs, no buts.lowing wrote:
I said poor black people ( since they were they topic of discussion) needs to start taking responsibility for themselves, instead of blaming others. I can and would say the same thing about one of any race.
Huh? you admit that he was addressing the black communities soicial issues, and do not agree with me when I say he did??? HUH????ZombieVampire! wrote:
I've stated that several times. That doesn't mean I agree that your comments can be equated.lowing wrote:
He knows better than that, and we all know no politician will get specific in regards to race issues. However, you and I are not bound by such restrictions, so are you admitting that that comment was addressed to the black community and its social issues or not?
Please lets keep it simple and without PC............do we agree or do we not agree on the target of those remarks?
Is it a poor ill-educated people issue or is it a black community issue lowing? A simple answer will suffice. It's your chance to absolve yourself of your previous comments.lowing wrote:
Ummmm Cam? everyone other than you, that includes the all of the media, which I post one, says he was addressing the black audience.CameronPoe wrote:
Blatant lie. You simply stated that he addressed a 'black audience'. No ifs, no buts.lowing wrote:
I said poor black people ( since they were they topic of discussion) needs to start taking responsibility for themselves, instead of blaming others. I can and would say the same thing about one of any race.
Or does this politican NOT tailor his speeches to his audience? I guess they don't do that do they?
Last edited by CameronPoe (2008-07-07 04:15:23)
It is a social issue within the black community Cam, an issue that is acknowledged by everyone but you. IF there is thread regarding white trash, I will post ABOUT white trash, but I can guarantee my comments will mirror those made in threads about black social issues.CameronPoe wrote:
Is it a poor ill-educated people issue or is it a black community issue lowing? A simple answer will suffice. It's your chance to absolve yourself of your previous comments.lowing wrote:
Ummmm Cam? everyone other than you, that includes the all of the media, which I post one, says he was addressing the black audience.CameronPoe wrote:
Blatant lie. You simply stated that he addressed a 'black audience'. No ifs, no buts.
Or does this politician NOT tailor his speeches to his audience? I guess they don't do that do they?
PS You never not once said poor black people.
No, I don't agree that his comment can be equated with yours.lowing wrote:
Huh? you admit that he was addressing the black communities soicial issues, and do not agree with me when I say he did??? HUH????ZombieVampire! wrote:
I've stated that several times. That doesn't mean I agree that your comments can be equated.lowing wrote:
He knows better than that, and we all know no politician will get specific in regards to race issues. However, you and I are not bound by such restrictions, so are you admitting that that comment was addressed to the black community and its social issues or not?
Please lets keep it simple and without PC............do we agree or do we not agree on the target of those remarks?
How does the 'black social issue' differ from the 'white social issue', pray tell? Why the skin-colour distinction? Why refer specifically about an issue as if it pertains to skin pigmentation? I offered you an out on a plate and you refused. Odd to say the least.#lowing wrote:
It is a social issue within the black community Cam, an issue that is acknowledged by everyone but you. IF there is thread regarding white trash, I will post ABOUT white trash, but I can guarantee my comments will mirror those made in threads about black social issues.
I am not ashamed of any comments I have made, a can not help your ability to twist everything into a racial remark.It is unfortunate, but that is the price I pay for interacting with you on this forum.
Last edited by CameronPoe (2008-07-07 05:29:51)
You saw no need to challenge it because it fitted in nicely with your world view. I didn't challenge it because the first I saw of that thread was when I checked Nu7's karma after his racist comments in the other race-related thread.lowing wrote:
I saw no need to challenge it, if you did, then perhaps you should have.Braddock wrote:
It's not your job to check the validity of information you are taking to be true? Whose job is it?lowing wrote:
I ask you the same thing, if you didn't like the post, why did you ask ofr a reference of the stats? It really wasn't my job, I wasn't challenging it. You are.
I haven't read all of the posts, but I just wanted to ask you Lowing: if you believe personal responsability is key to everything, and everyone can become what he wants if he's willing to work for it, then why aren't you president of the US?lowing wrote:
Do not mistake NOT listening with NOT agreeing.......I have heard your argument and I steadfastly think it is bullshit to continue to blame slavery and pre-civil rights era for personal failure today by those who have not experienced either.......Plain and simple.Braddock wrote:
You really don't listen to other people in debates, do you lowing?
I don't think anyone at any stage argued that personal responsibility wasn't ultimately what is needed to succeed to any degree in life. What some people were arguing was that demographically most African Americans don't have the same head starts in life that many white people do and as such levels of education and social awareness in relation to such issues are more likely to be worse in African American communities. As Cam pointed out on numerous occasions social awareness doesn't magically appear at birth, it needs to be instilled and if society doesn't address it's social problems and continually work to improve awareness then the problems will not get any better...and people like you who choose to dismiss statistics and the existence of such social problems only perpetuate the cycle.
It's very easy for white America to point the finger at the problems of the African American community when they themselves have had a few hundred years head start on the back of work done by slaves.
Sighhhhhhhhh, was Obama addressing the black community or not, if he was then you agree with me that ............................he wasZombieVampire! wrote:
No, I don't agree that his comment can be equated with yours.lowing wrote:
Huh? you admit that he was addressing the black communities soicial issues, and do not agree with me when I say he did??? HUH????ZombieVampire! wrote:
I've stated that several times. That doesn't mean I agree that your comments can be equated.
So did Obama's speech not apply to white trash who shirk their social responsibilities? If not, why not?lowing wrote:
It is a social issue within the black community Cam, an issue that is acknowledged by everyone but you. IF there is thread regarding white trash, I will post ABOUT white trash, but I can guarantee my comments will mirror those made in threads about black social issues.
I am not ashamed of any comments I have made, a can not help your ability to twist everything into a racial remark.It is unfortunate, but that is the price I pay for interacting with you on this forum.
He was addressing a poor, black community, yes.lowing wrote:
Sighhhhhhhhh, was Obama addressing the black community or not, if he was then you agree with me that ............................he wasZombieVampire! wrote:
No, I don't agree that his comment can be equated with yours.lowing wrote:
Huh? you admit that he was addressing the black communities soicial issues, and do not agree with me when I say he did??? HUH????
No shit Cam, tell that to your brother and others who insist that slavery and pre-civil rights issues are the reason for the lack of personal responsibilty with individuals within the black community today, instead of laying the blame at their feet, where it belongs.....the "shirking" of responsibilities is being done by your camp. I blame individuals for their actionsCameronPoe wrote:
How does the 'black social issue' differ from the 'white social issue', pray tell? Why the skin-colour distinction? Why refer specifically about an issue as if it pertains to skin pigmentation? I offered you an out on a plate and you refused. Odd to say the least.#lowing wrote:
It is a social issue within the black community Cam, an issue that is acknowledged by everyone but you. IF there is thread regarding white trash, I will post ABOUT white trash, but I can guarantee my comments will mirror those made in threads about black social issues.
I am not ashamed of any comments I have made, a can not help your ability to twist everything into a racial remark.It is unfortunate, but that is the price I pay for interacting with you on this forum.
At the end of the day it's about shirking your responsibilities and it doesn't matter what colour your skin is.
What makes you think I would want to be president of the US?Pierre wrote:
I haven't read all of the posts, but I just wanted to ask you Lowing: if you believe personal responsability is key to everything, and everyone can become what he wants if he's willing to work for it, then why aren't you president of the US?lowing wrote:
Do not mistake NOT listening with NOT agreeing.......I have heard your argument and I steadfastly think it is bullshit to continue to blame slavery and pre-civil rights era for personal failure today by those who have not experienced either.......Plain and simple.Braddock wrote:
You really don't listen to other people in debates, do you lowing?
I don't think anyone at any stage argued that personal responsibility wasn't ultimately what is needed to succeed to any degree in life. What some people were arguing was that demographically most African Americans don't have the same head starts in life that many white people do and as such levels of education and social awareness in relation to such issues are more likely to be worse in African American communities. As Cam pointed out on numerous occasions social awareness doesn't magically appear at birth, it needs to be instilled and if society doesn't address it's social problems and continually work to improve awareness then the problems will not get any better...and people like you who choose to dismiss statistics and the existence of such social problems only perpetuate the cycle.
It's very easy for white America to point the finger at the problems of the African American community when they themselves have had a few hundred years head start on the back of work done by slaves.
Nope, like I said EVERYONE could take his advice.Braddock wrote:
So did Obama's speech not apply to white trash who shirk their social responsibilities? If not, why not?lowing wrote:
It is a social issue within the black community Cam, an issue that is acknowledged by everyone but you. IF there is thread regarding white trash, I will post ABOUT white trash, but I can guarantee my comments will mirror those made in threads about black social issues.
I am not ashamed of any comments I have made, a can not help your ability to twist everything into a racial remark.It is unfortunate, but that is the price I pay for interacting with you on this forum.
And if you admit it did indeed apply to white trash also (and likewise to all other ethnic groups) then your entire thread is built on a racially biased inference.
lol. I never shirk my responsibilities. We explain the reality of the situation - the reasons. We do not make defences. Your inability to comprehend the cycle of poverty is your downfall. Also, congrats - you finally made a distinction - you used the word 'individuals', unfortunately you proceeded to make the racial reference again... oh well.lowing wrote:
No shit Cam, tell that to your brother and others who insist that slavery and pre-civil rights issues are the reason for the lack of personal responsibilty with individuals within the black community today, instead of laying the blame at their feet, where it belongs.....the "shirking" of responsibilities is being done by your camp. I blame individuals for their actions
Are you telling me that these people of which you speak suffer these issues by virtue of their skin colour? Yes or no.lowing wrote:
The black social issues have been discussed at length, and you know it, if you do not know what they are, then you are not as worldly as you like to pretend you are. If you feel you need a recap, go back and hit those threads.
You started this one. That was enough. I don't see any difference between white trash, black trash, yellow trash, green trash. Why the need to differentiate lowing, eh?lowing wrote:
Also to remind you, I didn't start any of those threads, I commented in them. When a thread is started about white trash, I will comment on white trash and not black social issues. As it is, when a thread is started about black social issues, I will comment on black social issues.
Lowing you keep going on about how you have eyes and ears...PLEASE USE THEM.lowing wrote:
No shit Cam, tell that to your brother and others who insist that slavery and pre-civil rights issues are the reason for the lack of personal responsibilty with individuals within the black community today, instead of laying the blame at their feet, where it belongs.....the "shirking" of responsibilities is being done by your camp. I blame individuals for their actionsCameronPoe wrote:
How does the 'black social issue' differ from the 'white social issue', pray tell? Why the skin-colour distinction? Why refer specifically about an issue as if it pertains to skin pigmentation? I offered you an out on a plate and you refused. Odd to say the least.#lowing wrote:
It is a social issue within the black community Cam, an issue that is acknowledged by everyone but you. IF there is thread regarding white trash, I will post ABOUT white trash, but I can guarantee my comments will mirror those made in threads about black social issues.
I am not ashamed of any comments I have made, a can not help your ability to twist everything into a racial remark.It is unfortunate, but that is the price I pay for interacting with you on this forum.
At the end of the day it's about shirking your responsibilities and it doesn't matter what colour your skin is.
The black social issues have been discussed at length, and you know it, if you do not know what they are, then you are not as worldly as you like to pretend you are. If you feel you need a recap, go back and hit those threads.
Also to remind you, I didn't start any of those threads, I commented in them. When a thread is started about white trash, I will comment on white trash and not black social issues. As it is, when a thread is started about black social issues, I will comment on black social issues.
Last edited by Braddock (2008-07-07 11:39:54)
Well he didn't mention race so from his own words he was addressing poor people.lowing wrote:
Nope, like I said EVERYONE could take his advice.Braddock wrote:
So did Obama's speech not apply to white trash who shirk their social responsibilities? If not, why not?lowing wrote:
It is a social issue within the black community Cam, an issue that is acknowledged by everyone but you. IF there is thread regarding white trash, I will post ABOUT white trash, but I can guarantee my comments will mirror those made in threads about black social issues.
I am not ashamed of any comments I have made, a can not help your ability to twist everything into a racial remark.It is unfortunate, but that is the price I pay for interacting with you on this forum.
And if you admit it did indeed apply to white trash also (and likewise to all other ethnic groups) then your entire thread is built on a racially biased inference.
Even the media and the black community acknowledges who he was addressing....Sorry if you do not like that, but I already showed where that is true. I know it is impossible, because your argument would collapse, but set aside your PC and tell me who he was addressing.
1. Never said you did....and I have sais repeatedly, REASONS are irrelevent especially 150 year old reasons....Personal responsibility is the only way this "cycle" will be broken.....Society has done its part, it has changed for the better of all.CameronPoe wrote:
lol. I never shirk my responsibilities. We explain the reality of the situation - the reasons. We do not make defences. Your inability to comprehend the cycle of poverty is your downfall. Also, congrats - you finally made a distinction - you used the word 'individuals', unfortunately you proceeded to make the racial reference again... oh well.lowing wrote:
No shit Cam, tell that to your brother and others who insist that slavery and pre-civil rights issues are the reason for the lack of personal responsibilty with individuals within the black community today, instead of laying the blame at their feet, where it belongs.....the "shirking" of responsibilities is being done by your camp. I blame individuals for their actionsAre you telling me that these people of which you speak suffer these issues by virtue of their skin colour? Yes or no.lowing wrote:
The black social issues have been discussed at length, and you know it, if you do not know what they are, then you are not as worldly as you like to pretend you are. If you feel you need a recap, go back and hit those threads.You started this one. That was enough. I don't see any difference between white trash, black trash, yellow trash, green trash. Why the need to differentiate lowing, eh?lowing wrote:
Also to remind you, I didn't start any of those threads, I commented in them. When a thread is started about white trash, I will comment on white trash and not black social issues. As it is, when a thread is started about black social issues, I will comment on black social issues.