Pages: 1 … 4 5 6 7 8 … 11

 

2008-06-23 05:54:39
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,817|6396|eXtreme to the maX
How long are you going to excuse personal failure with a past they had no part of suffering in?
There is a difference between excusing and explaining.
Its a hell of a lot harder for a black kid to achieve the same as a white kid when starting from an equal base, in most countries and America especially.
Grossly generalising, black kids start from a lower base than white kids. They have less money, live in poorer neighbourhoods, crappier houses, poorer diet, fewer (if any) educated or wealthy relatives to look up to or give advice.

Everyone has the same opportunities in theory, in practice its not so simple. Its hard for everyone, harder for blacks.
Within living memory blacks have started running businesses in the US, how do you go from there to parity with whites - on average -  in only a few decades I'd like to know.

There is no excuse for the crime, and I think the rappers have a lot to answer for.
But again, from what I've seen blacks and whites are treated very differently by the law in the US.

Good for you on your achievements, but bear in mind some people do have it harder
Fuck Israel
2008-06-23 05:58:30
lowing
Banned
+1,662|6941|USA

Braddock wrote:

lowing wrote:

Braddock wrote:


The attitudes seen at that level are a macrocosm of the wider problem. The majority of people at the top of all the major industries are white, when you combine that fact with the turbulent racial history of the US then you can see a situation where white dominance has become something very difficult to break for the average African American. You honestly think race isn't an issue any more in America?...just look at the ridiculous farce that has already surrounded the Obama presidential race.
We are talking about 2 different things............I am talking about an average black person can build his American dream in today's America..........You are trying to tell me that a black person is being kept from being a CEO of a major company.........Hell, most white people will not accomplish such levels let alone blacks........Again, you can not keep your argument real and to a level accessable to most white people without admitting most black people are afforded the same opportunities....THe only thing keeping the average person down, is............the guy in the mirror.
Jesus lowing, it's like cutting up a babies food with you...white dominance like this doesn't exist exclusively at the top level and then disappear further down the chain. To have such a noticeable dominance at the top requires a pyramid of inequality beneath.
Really, so there are no black people in positions of authority at the average joe level?? You do not know know any black people that have positions such as these?? If not then I suspect YOU have a race problem, because here in AMerica there are plenty of black people in said postions, the ONLY problem they have however, is being treated as a sell out by their own people....white America, seems to be fine with it.
2008-06-23 06:00:35
PureFodder
Member
+225|6575

lowing wrote:

Braddock wrote:

lowing wrote:

Yale, Harvard??...........I don't know or accociate with anyone that went to either....Again you are trying to use examples of exclusivness that even most white people are excluded from.....Try bringing it down to earth and use everyday examples from every day opportunities.....I think you will find it hard to argue your point when you knck your examples down to things that are accessable to most white people.
The attitudes seen at that level are a macrocosm of the wider problem. The majority of people at the top of all the major industries are white, when you combine that fact with the turbulent racial history of the US then you can see a situation where white dominance has become something very difficult to break for the average African American. You honestly think race isn't an issue any more in America?...just look at the ridiculous farce that has already surrounded the Obama presidential race.
We are talking about 2 different things............I am talking about an average black person can build his American dream in today's America..........You are trying to tell me that a black person is being kept from being a CEO of a major company.........Hell, most white people will not accomplish such levels let alone blacks........Again, you can not keep your argument real and to a level accessable to most white people without admitting most black people are afforded the same opportunities....THe only thing keeping the average person down, is............the guy in the mirror.
Contrary to popular belief, of the industrial societies, the US is probably the single most difficult society in which to realise the 'American Dream' (assuming social mobility is a measure of this). If you are born poor in America, regardless of race, your more likely to end up poor than in other industrial societies.

This combined with the relatively recent development of civil rights in the US, means that black people have had little chance to achieve financial equality. Statistically speaking, most black Americans should still be poor.
2008-06-23 06:05:24
Braddock
Agitator
+916|6580|Éire

lowing wrote:

PureFodder wrote:

The civil rights movement is only a few decades old and the US has the lowest social mobility of any rich nation (just beaten by the UK) hence it's no particular wonder that black people tend to be poorer and hence have the associated high crime levels still.
So your are going to stipulate that no poor black person is ALLOWED to take personal responsibilty for their attitude and action, and is in fact being purposely kept down by whitey and FORCED in a world of crime?? That the black people that have risen above this status were only ALLOWED to do so by the good graces of white America, and are not personally responsible for their successes, but were GRANTED favor by white America?
I think maybe you're misinterpreting a lot of the arguments in this thread lowing. I think everyone here will happily admit that personal responsibility is probably the most crucial factor in how any man gets on in this life, no matter what colour they are. But what must be acknowledged is that when you are looking at an argument where statistics are heavily relied on by one side wider social issues and contributing factors have to be looked at. As an example we mentioned how many black people live below the poverty line compared to their white counterparts, then we looked at the issue of how many white CEO's there are compared with black ones, add the historical factor of deep rooted racial tension and hatred from previous generations and I think even a monkey could join the dots. No one is saying it's a vast conspiracy where all the white people at the top meet up and decide which black people they will allow to achieve a modicum of success, that's just silly but it's not unrealistic to think all of the racial bigotry of a few decades ago still have traces in today's society.
2008-06-23 06:15:12
Braddock
Agitator
+916|6580|Éire

lowing wrote:

Braddock wrote:

lowing wrote:

We are talking about 2 different things............I am talking about an average black person can build his American dream in today's America..........You are trying to tell me that a black person is being kept from being a CEO of a major company.........Hell, most white people will not accomplish such levels let alone blacks........Again, you can not keep your argument real and to a level accessable to most white people without admitting most black people are afforded the same opportunities....THe only thing keeping the average person down, is............the guy in the mirror.
Jesus lowing, it's like cutting up a babies food with you...white dominance like this doesn't exist exclusively at the top level and then disappear further down the chain. To have such a noticeable dominance at the top requires a pyramid of inequality beneath.
Really, so there are no black people in positions of authority at the average joe level?? You do not know know any black people that have positions such as these?? If not then I suspect YOU have a race problem, because here in AMerica there are plenty of black people in said postions, the ONLY problem they have however, is being treated as a sell out by their own people....white America, seems to be fine with it.
Well, I don't know about the whole 'sell-out' thing, I've never seen that personally. It's a different dynamic here in Ireland lowing because our history played out differently. We don't have many slaves left over here from the slave era and even if there were the Irish themselves weren't regarded as much better back in those days ("no blacks, no dogs, no Irish"), what we do have is a lot of first generation African immigrants and a relatively small number of indigenous black and half cast Irish people (like Phil Lynnott of Thin Lizzy or Donegal artist Kevin Sharkey for example). Racism still exists, especially towards immigrants, and it is rare to see black people in positions of power or high office here. What is interesting is that the African community is not particularly troublesome on the crime front...not as troublesome as the Russian community for example.

Interestingly enough when I worked as a security guard at the central criminal court in Dublin we had a Black South African boss who was above three or four white South African guys...I bet they liked that!

PS: I actually agree with you on the issue of Hip hop and rap culture being ultimately negative for new generations of African Americans. Even if I grew up listening to Kurt Cobain, he himself wasn't telling me to rush out and grab a needle and some heroin. Hip Hop and rap lyrics do glorify and encourage deplorable, criminal activity.

Last edited by Braddock (2008-06-23 06:17:57)

2008-06-23 07:44:55
lowing
Banned
+1,662|6941|USA

PureFodder wrote:

lowing wrote:

Braddock wrote:


The attitudes seen at that level are a macrocosm of the wider problem. The majority of people at the top of all the major industries are white, when you combine that fact with the turbulent racial history of the US then you can see a situation where white dominance has become something very difficult to break for the average African American. You honestly think race isn't an issue any more in America?...just look at the ridiculous farce that has already surrounded the Obama presidential race.
We are talking about 2 different things............I am talking about an average black person can build his American dream in today's America..........You are trying to tell me that a black person is being kept from being a CEO of a major company.........Hell, most white people will not accomplish such levels let alone blacks........Again, you can not keep your argument real and to a level accessable to most white people without admitting most black people are afforded the same opportunities....THe only thing keeping the average person down, is............the guy in the mirror.
Contrary to popular belief, of the industrial societies, the US is probably the single most difficult society in which to realise the 'American Dream' (assuming social mobility is a measure of this). If you are born poor in America, regardless of race, your more likely to end up poor than in other industrial societies.

This combined with the relatively recent development of civil rights in the US, means that black people have had little chance to achieve financial equality. Statistically speaking, most black Americans should still be poor.
That is bullshit, all you need to achieve middle class status is a fuckin' HS diploma and that is paid for by the taxpayer, so being born poor has got shit to do with it....With that, and some fuckin ambition, you can land an entry level position anywhere and work your way up the food chain.
2008-06-23 07:49:15
lowing
Banned
+1,662|6941|USA

Braddock wrote:

lowing wrote:

PureFodder wrote:

The civil rights movement is only a few decades old and the US has the lowest social mobility of any rich nation (just beaten by the UK) hence it's no particular wonder that black people tend to be poorer and hence have the associated high crime levels still.
So your are going to stipulate that no poor black person is ALLOWED to take personal responsibilty for their attitude and action, and is in fact being purposely kept down by whitey and FORCED in a world of crime?? That the black people that have risen above this status were only ALLOWED to do so by the good graces of white America, and are not personally responsible for their successes, but were GRANTED favor by white America?
I think maybe you're misinterpreting a lot of the arguments in this thread lowing. I think everyone here will happily admit that personal responsibility is probably the most crucial factor in how any man gets on in this life, no matter what colour they are. But what must be acknowledged is that when you are looking at an argument where statistics are heavily relied on by one side wider social issues and contributing factors have to be looked at. As an example we mentioned how many black people live below the poverty line compared to their white counterparts, then we looked at the issue of how many white CEO's there are compared with black ones, add the historical factor of deep rooted racial tension and hatred from previous generations and I think even a monkey could join the dots. No one is saying it's a vast conspiracy where all the white people at the top meet up and decide which black people they will allow to achieve a modicum of success, that's just silly but it's not unrealistic to think all of the racial bigotry of a few decades ago still have traces in today's society.
and I maintain that ANYONE living below poverty level who is able bodied, is doing so because of their own attitude, decisions, and lack of motivation...In other words, lack of personal responsibility. THe fact that a persons GGG Grandfather had a tough life has shit to do with it and is a bullshit excuse for personal failure. Just how long are yuo going t oexcuse personal failure as a result of a past that had nothing to do with them?

When is the time line where you will say, ok enough of the excuses......
2008-06-23 08:31:04
CameronPoe
Member
+2,925|6845

lowing wrote:

That is bullshit, all you need to achieve middle class status is a fuckin' HS diploma and that is paid for by the taxpayer, so being born poor has got shit to do with it....With that, and some fuckin ambition, you can land an entry level position anywhere and work your way up the food chain.
A high-school diploma in Europe basically qualifies you to be a burger flipper as is the case in the US. Don't try and kid yourself that getting a C+ in Maths in your final year leads to picket-fence dreamland. And don't try and kid yourself that the circumstances of your upbringing don't have a bearing on your performance at school.

Last edited by CameronPoe (2008-06-23 10:21:06)

2008-06-23 08:35:31
God Save the Queen
Banned
+628|6633|tropical regions of london
a high school diploma is the ticket to the middle class?  no.
2008-06-23 08:37:56
Lotta_Drool
Spit
+350|6473|Ireland

God Save the Queen wrote:

a high school diploma is the ticket to the middle class?  no.
Only in Detroit because of the Auto Union.
2008-06-23 08:57:21
PureFodder
Member
+225|6575

lowing wrote:

PureFodder wrote:

lowing wrote:

We are talking about 2 different things............I am talking about an average black person can build his American dream in today's America..........You are trying to tell me that a black person is being kept from being a CEO of a major company.........Hell, most white people will not accomplish such levels let alone blacks........Again, you can not keep your argument real and to a level accessable to most white people without admitting most black people are afforded the same opportunities....THe only thing keeping the average person down, is............the guy in the mirror.
Contrary to popular belief, of the industrial societies, the US is probably the single most difficult society in which to realise the 'American Dream' (assuming social mobility is a measure of this). If you are born poor in America, regardless of race, your more likely to end up poor than in other industrial societies.

This combined with the relatively recent development of civil rights in the US, means that black people have had little chance to achieve financial equality. Statistically speaking, most black Americans should still be poor.
That is bullshit, all you need to achieve middle class status is a fuckin' HS diploma and that is paid for by the taxpayer, so being born poor has got shit to do with it....With that, and some fuckin ambition, you can land an entry level position anywhere and work your way up the food chain.
So your argument for Scandinavians/Germans/Canadians having considerably higher social mobility than Brits/Americans is entirely due to the majority of Brits/Americans being un-motivated, rubbish people who simply can't be arsed to succeed?
2008-06-23 09:02:14
CaptainSpaulding71
Member
+119|6647|CA, USA

Braddock wrote:

How about this for an argument?

America is still an incredibly divided country when it comes to race, seeing as it wasn't that long ago that black people had to sit at the back of the bus. With this fact in mind and the fact that the white population had hitherto been the 'ruling' class, for want of a better term, the power structures in today's society are still very much an obstacle for the average black person. This kind of imbalance creates a disparity in terms of wealth between the various races, with African Americans drawing the short straw and this poverty increases the likelihood of 'ghettoisation' among African American communities. Programs to counter this imbalance such as affirmative action, like many misguided welfare programs, have ended up making the situation worse by facilitating the more undeserving elements of the African American community while tarnishing the achievements of the African American who works hard and deserves his place regardless of affirmative action. At the end of the day every person still deserves the right to be judged on his merits and not on his skin tone.
i would argue that the spirit of what myself (and probably lowing) is trying to say is exactly what you wrote here.

those that think otherwise, i'd be curious to get their inputs as to why certain races seem to progress and why others seem to celebrate the culture of failure.  what depresses me is exactly this - the 'woe-is-me' stuff.  The irish immigrants who came here in the late 1800s were pretty poor too.  same with the italians and jewish immigrants.  the list goes on and on.  yet, these groups managed to make comfortable livings just like everyone else.  true, they perhpas had a head start because of the skin color issue but i recall reading quite a bit about ethnicity issues in NYC at turn of century also.

so again, to summarize, i agree with you braddock.  can we get some solutions?  what does Ireland do to resolve these kinds of issues with its own population?  i have suggested more job training and PR campaigns by govt to encourage culture to move away from hollywood ideals and thug life and move toward better role models.
2008-06-23 09:07:53
rawls2
Mr. Bigglesworth
+89|6850
I see a connection with the "racists" on this forum and those who chose to blindly support Bush through out the years. These are the people who are more succeptible to "spin" and argue the issues they are bieng spoon fed. Shame on you for not bieng able to distinguish real issues and only focusing on what is bieng dangled in front of you.
2008-06-23 09:13:41
Braddock
Agitator
+916|6580|Éire

CaptainSpaulding71 wrote:

Braddock wrote:

How about this for an argument?

America is still an incredibly divided country when it comes to race, seeing as it wasn't that long ago that black people had to sit at the back of the bus. With this fact in mind and the fact that the white population had hitherto been the 'ruling' class, for want of a better term, the power structures in today's society are still very much an obstacle for the average black person. This kind of imbalance creates a disparity in terms of wealth between the various races, with African Americans drawing the short straw and this poverty increases the likelihood of 'ghettoisation' among African American communities. Programs to counter this imbalance such as affirmative action, like many misguided welfare programs, have ended up making the situation worse by facilitating the more undeserving elements of the African American community while tarnishing the achievements of the African American who works hard and deserves his place regardless of affirmative action. At the end of the day every person still deserves the right to be judged on his merits and not on his skin tone.
i would argue that the spirit of what myself (and probably lowing) is trying to say is exactly what you wrote here.

those that think otherwise, i'd be curious to get their inputs as to why certain races seem to progress and why others seem to celebrate the culture of failure.  what depresses me is exactly this - the 'woe-is-me' stuff.  The irish immigrants who came here in the late 1800s were pretty poor too.  same with the italians and jewish immigrants.  the list goes on and on.  yet, these groups managed to make comfortable livings just like everyone else.  true, they perhpas had a head start because of the skin color issue but i recall reading quite a bit about ethnicity issues in NYC at turn of century also.

so again, to summarize, i agree with you braddock.  can we get some solutions?  what does Ireland do to resolve these kinds of issues with its own population?  i have suggested more job training and PR campaigns by govt to encourage culture to move away from hollywood ideals and thug life and move toward better role models.
Ireland has the advantage of learning from other nations mistakes seen as our immigration problem is a relatively new one. There are a lot of television and print campaigns by the Government to raise awareness and reduce ignorance when it comes to race and equality. I think we even have a minister for equal rights or an equal rights commission or something if I'm not mistaken.
2008-06-23 09:17:21
CaptainSpaulding71
Member
+119|6647|CA, USA

Dilbert_X wrote:

How long are you going to excuse personal failure with a past they had no part of suffering in?
There is a difference between excusing and explaining.
Its a hell of a lot harder for a black kid to achieve the same as a white kid when starting from an equal base, in most countries and America especially.
Grossly generalising, black kids start from a lower base than white kids. They have less money, live in poorer neighbourhoods, crappier houses, poorer diet, fewer (if any) educated or wealthy relatives to look up to or give advice.

Everyone has the same opportunities in theory, in practice its not so simple. Its hard for everyone, harder for blacks.
Within living memory blacks have started running businesses in the US, how do you go from there to parity with whites - on average -  in only a few decades I'd like to know.

There is no excuse for the crime, and I think the rappers have a lot to answer for.
But again, from what I've seen blacks and whites are treated very differently by the law in the US.

Good for you on your achievements, but bear in mind some people do have it harder
ok, now i think we are actually getting somwehere. 

so when you say certain cultures have it harder - i'm willing to concede to your argument here.  i can see that in the past there has been a sense of holding back the culture by the dominant races.  however, lately i see certain leaders of these same cultures pushing the myth that people are still slaves and that they are owed $$$ for past behavior.  i see defeatist and counter productive mentality being used as an excuse for lack of drive.  eg:  why try, i'm already a failure.  further, govt encourages policies that back up this behavior in form of entitlement programs.

my big claims are:

1)  rap music and celebration of pimp/ho lifestyle glamorizes failure (you and i agree on this already)
2)  lack of progress is partly due to being perceived as sell-out because then it diminishes the argument that the people crying 'sell-out' really are just lazy and people can indeed make it out of poverty. 
3)  education and job training should be pushed - not just $$$ in form of entitlement programs without any stipulations on how they use the $$$
4)  broken families are a potential source of social ills.


so i guess on some level i agree with you and i'd like to hear some solutions.
2008-06-23 09:26:54
Braddock
Agitator
+916|6580|Éire

lowing wrote:

and I maintain that ANYONE living below poverty level who is able bodied, is doing so because of their own attitude, decisions, and lack of motivation...In other words, lack of personal responsibility. THe fact that a persons GGG Grandfather had a tough life has shit to do with it and is a bullshit excuse for personal failure. Just how long are yuo going t oexcuse personal failure as a result of a past that had nothing to do with them?
I've already stated that people have to take personal responsibility for themselves and that racial attitudes only play one part in the grand scheme of things lowing. Do you completely reject the idea that race can in any way effect your chances in life? Because, as an example, I was chatting to that Schittloaf guy the other day in a thread about Obama and he openly admitted that one of the reasons he wouldn't vote for Obama was because he was black and I'm sure he's not alone in that attitude.

lowing wrote:

When is the time line where you will say, ok enough of the excuses......
When the great, great, great grandchildren of the rich landowners and businessmen who used to keep slaves have truly got all of their racism out of their system.
2008-06-23 09:31:11
CaptainSpaulding71
Member
+119|6647|CA, USA
regarding the selling out issue and race, here's an interesting article:

http://harvardmagazine.com/2007/11/the-sellout.html

and another on racial perceptions

http://pewsocialtrends.org/assets/pdf/Race.pdf

i'm still working through the second link but the first few pages are interesting since they cover racial perceptions from a phone survey of how people think their race and other races progress and then follows up with tons of statistical data.  it's 91 pages!

Last edited by CaptainSpaulding71 (2008-06-23 10:02:55)

2008-06-23 10:26:55
CameronPoe
Member
+2,925|6845

lowing wrote:

Ok Cam, since you are asking, I was born unto a 19 year old girl who was not ready to be a mother. I never knew my biological father, since he skipped out on us when I was 6 months old. We lived with my grandparents until my Mom couldn't take it anymore and married some asshole who was mentally and physically abusive to my Mom, myself and my sister. While with him we lived in a falling down apt. in Detroit. At 5 years old I was a latch key kid, ( something that your parents would go to jail for today). When she left him, we became trailer trash, while my Mom worked at a McDonalds and a furniture store. The furnature store is where she met my father that did most of my upbringing. He was a strict disiplinarian who had little time or emotion for kids that were not "his". He joined the military and so began our travels. He was enlisted with a wife and 3 kiids, ( I gained a half brother by this point) and anyone will tell you an entry level enlisted person with a family is sucking hind tit for money. So yeah Cam, I was not raised with a silver spoon, I was not raised by Ozzy and Harriet Nelson. I over came these childhood issues, and went on to develope issues of my own that I needed to over come.

So again I ask..............How long are you going to excuse personal failure with a past they had no part of suffering in?
So what you're telling me is you gained a stepfather that instilled discipline in you and provided for you and that your stepfather did not engage in criminality, drugs or other subversive behaviour. Lucky you. I can think of several thousand people far less lucky than you. You truly are blessed in comparison to those whose parents don't realise the value of giving their children a good upbringing. Blessed indeed. You call that tough? It's tougher than some but it appears to me your stepfather nullified all of the prior shit and put you on an even keel.

Last edited by CameronPoe (2008-06-23 10:43:43)

2008-06-23 10:44:24
lowing
Banned
+1,662|6941|USA
To all of you,

              Yeah, you can make a middle class living with a HS diploma. I know plenty of aircraft mechanics that make more than most college graduates. It is called advancement within a company. Since when do you need a college education to be blue collar worker? Cops, firemen, EMT's, construction workers, telephone linemen, mechanics, etc.............are all professions with middle class and beyond income that do not require a college degree....You need to learn a trade, but hell that goes along with ambition doesn't it?

To Braddock,

                   and I can name several that will vote for Obama for no other reason than because he is black......where is the "racist" accusations from you? Also, no, today, a black person who applies themselves, just like everyone else, gets a fair shake. As long as you act professional and have a desire to achieve. It would also help if the black population would stop LOOKING for racism around every corner, inventing it where they can not find it.

Yeah, the GGG grandchildren of slave owners are still reaping the rewards of slave ownership. They burned the South to ground remember Braddock?....get real


Cam,

       I never said I had it worse than anyone else in the world. I merely stated that I was not born with a silver spoon in my mouth. When I left home, I got nothing, since there was nothing to give me. Everything I have, and do not have is a direct result of my efforts, or lack of effort. Period. Why is it so hard for you to hold people accountable for their own lives, why is it ALWAYS someones elses fault for shit you do not have...Time to grow the fuck up and realize life ain't fair. Not just for blacks, but for any of us.
2008-06-23 10:49:18
CameronPoe
Member
+2,925|6845

lowing wrote:

Cam,

       I never said I had it worse than anyone else in the world. I merely stated that I was not born with a silver spoon in my mouth. When I left home, I got nothing, since there was nothing to give me. Everything I have, and do not have is a direct result of my efforts, or lack of effort. Period. Why is it so hard for you to hold people accountable for their own lives, why is it ALWAYS someones elses fault for shit you do not have...Time to grow the fuck up and realize life ain't fair. Not just for blacks, but for any of us.
Patent bullshit. There is every chance you could have went off the rails had your mother not met that man. You are the product of THEIR UPBRINGING OF YOU. A vast number of unfortunates never get such a thing. You are not an island lowing, no matter how much you would like to think you are.

Welcome to the Cycle Of Poverty:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cycle_of_poverty
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cycle_of_p … Background

Enjoy the read.

Last edited by CameronPoe (2008-06-23 10:59:41)

2008-06-23 11:03:02
CaptainSpaulding71
Member
+119|6647|CA, USA

CameronPoe wrote:

Patent bullshit. There is every chance you could have went off the rails had your mother not met that man. You are the product of THEIR UPBRINGING OF YOU. A vast number of unfortunates never get such a thing. You are not an island lowing, no matter how much you would like to think you are.
i agree that you indeed are a product of your upbringing, but where does self-reliance and initiative play here?  if you are continually told you are no-good, shown that you cannot succeed, etc, why do some buck the system and indeed end up making a good life for themselves to spite this?

the problem i see is that the culture is broken to begin with.  why do we have shitty upbringing cases to begin with?  instead of making excuses or entitlement programs to these people - and passing the buck, why not fix the root cause of the problem

problem 1)  breakup of the traditional family
problem 2)  entitlement programs that breed low self-worth.  rather than giving out free $$$, we should ask for service to be performed - eg:  work.  CCC used this in FDR years. 
problem 3)  education is abysmal
problem 4) terrible role models promoted through culture and media
2008-06-23 11:05:18
lowing
Banned
+1,662|6941|USA

CameronPoe wrote:

lowing wrote:

Cam,

       I never said I had it worse than anyone else in the world. I merely stated that I was not born with a silver spoon in my mouth. When I left home, I got nothing, since there was nothing to give me. Everything I have, and do not have is a direct result of my efforts, or lack of effort. Period. Why is it so hard for you to hold people accountable for their own lives, why is it ALWAYS someones elses fault for shit you do not have...Time to grow the fuck up and realize life ain't fair. Not just for blacks, but for any of us.
Patent bullshit. There is every chance you could have went off the rails had your mother not met that man. You are the product of THEIR UPBRINGING OF YOU. A vast number of unfortunates never get such a thing. You are not an island lowing, no matter how much you would like to think you are.

Welcome to the Cycle Of Poverty:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cycle_of_poverty
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cycle_of_p … Background

Enjoy the read.
Sorry Cam, I do not buy into this bullshit that I am excused for my actions bcause I had a shitty upbringing......In fact, my step dad was a complete asshole. I took that experience, knowing exactly what my sons would from me because I did not have it. I work very hard to provide them with the type of father I longed for. I do not beat my kids because that is what my dad did and it was "how I was raised". I AM presonally responsible for myself. I know that notion is revolting to you. Why take responsibility for yourself or your actions, when you have an entire race or govt. you can blame? Good stuff Cam.
2008-06-23 11:06:47
CameronPoe
Member
+2,925|6845

CaptainSpaulding71 wrote:

CameronPoe wrote:

Patent bullshit. There is every chance you could have went off the rails had your mother not met that man. You are the product of THEIR UPBRINGING OF YOU. A vast number of unfortunates never get such a thing. You are not an island lowing, no matter how much you would like to think you are.
i agree that you indeed are a product of your upbringing, but where does self-reliance and initiative play here?  if you are continually told you are no-good, shown that you cannot succeed, etc, why do some buck the system and indeed end up making a good life for themselves to spite this?

the problem i see is that the culture is broken to begin with.  why do we have shitty upbringing cases to begin with?  instead of making excuses or entitlement programs to these people - and passing the buck, why not fix the root cause of the problem

problem 1)  breakup of the traditional family
problem 2)  entitlement programs that breed low self-worth.  rather than giving out free $$$, we should ask for service to be performed - eg:  work.  CCC used this in FDR years. 
problem 3)  education is abysmal
problem 4) terrible role models promoted through culture and media
You've just outlined some of the issues broached in that link I posted to 'The Cycle of Poverty'. I'm not making excuses here - I'm stating the whys and wherefores. Statistically low income families breed low income adults - for a myriad of reasons, none of which boils down to what shade of skin you happen to have.
2008-06-23 11:08:19
Agent_Dung_Bomb
Member
+302|7026|Salt Lake City

We have a fucked up prison system that gives them a better life on the inside than the one they would have to work for on the outside.
2008-06-23 11:09:40
CameronPoe
Member
+2,925|6845

lowing wrote:

Sorry Cam, I do not buy into this bullshit that I am excused for my actions bcause I had a shitty upbringing......In fact, my step dad was a complete asshole. I took that experience, knowing exactly what my sons would from me because I did not have it. I work very hard to provide them with the type of father I longed for. I do not beat my kids because that is what my dad did and it was "how I was raised". I AM presonally responsible for myself. I know that notion is revolting to you. Why take responsibility for yourself or your actions, when you have an entire race or govt. you can blame? Good stuff Cam.
lol @ 'revolting'. I work harder than most people around me and excelled in academia and excel at my profession as my promotions, bonuses and raises indicate. What an ungrateful brat you are to disrespect the parents that made sure you didn't starve and that you went to school. Unbelievable!

PS You're the one blaming race, not me - I'm blaming inherited social conditions. Don't try and pin your racism on me. You really should try reading that link - Statistics + American Professors of Sociology > Lowing.

Last edited by CameronPoe (2008-06-23 11:11:19)

 

Pages: 1 … 4 5 6 7 8 … 11

Board footer

Privacy Policy - © 2025 Jeff Minard