BF2S Forums Why are lots of crimes committed by blacks?

CameronPoe wrote:

lowing wrote:

Again, you can not argue with using your generalization defense......Now, on a whole, tell me how and WHY my statement is incorrect....Like I said time and time again....I can find links where the black leaders blame white America...I can also find links where the black communities were pissed off at Cosby for telling the black community they needed to take responsibility for themselves..........

Your argument is blatantly incorrect because it supposes that the crime is associated simply with black skin. The cause of the crime is actually far deeper than such a shallow ignorant interpretation of things, as aptly explained in many other posts on this thread. I wonder how my friend Kumbuyani would feel about your comments. Horrified I would imagine.

CameronPoe wrote:

It's like this. To understand the world we live in today we have to look at how we arrived here. In the US, 40-50 years ago, black people were a subclass of American society. They were oppressed and did not have the same civil liberties and opportunities as white people. White people in America, as such, had a three century head start on black people in terms of wealth creation, education, politics and various other aspects of life (especially when for a portion of this time blacks were held in bondage for the benefit of whites). The state of the black community of America at the point of their emancipation was one where black people were the poorest people in the nation, lived predominantly in ghettos, were poorly educated and had little or no middle class and had no political sway whatsoever. Population density (ghettos), lack of education and poverty breed crime. As such, the black community were hampered from the offset with a heavy cross to bear, especially when compared against the advantages (the head start) the white community had over them. It takes more than a few paltry decades to reverse the social and political flaws that perpetuated for centuries. It is not the colour of their skin that leads some of them to crime more the fact that, given their starting point of disadvantage vis a vis whites, they are more likely than whites to be the perpetrators of crime owing to their social circumstance. As usual, lowing would rather just tkae the easy option and point to 'ghetto' music and other such tosh because he doesn't have the desire nor the wherewithall to analyse the situation in terms of drivers and causation.

Black emancipation didn't magically transform ghettos into suburban idylls, which is perhaps what lowing presumes to have happened given his vacuous musings.

Braddock wrote:

lowing wrote:

CameronPoe wrote:

It's like this. To understand the world we live in today we have to look at how we arrived here. In the US, 40-50 years ago, black people were a subclass of American society. They were oppressed and did not have the same civil liberties and opportunities as white people. White people in America, as such, had a three century head start on black people in terms of wealth creation, education, politics and various other aspects of life (especially when for a portion of this time blacks were held in bondage for the benefit of whites). The state of the black community of America at the point of their emancipation was one where black people were the poorest people in the nation, lived predominantly in ghettos, were poorly educated and had little or no middle class and had no political sway whatsoever. Population density (ghettos), lack of education and poverty breed crime. As such, the black community were hampered from the offset with a heavy cross to bear, especially when compared against the advantages (the head start) the white community had over them. It takes more than a few paltry decades to reverse the social and political flaws that perpetuated for centuries. It is not the colour of their skin that leads some of them to crime more the fact that, given their starting point of disadvantage vis a vis whites, they are more likely than whites to be the perpetrators of crime owing to their social circumstance. As usual, lowing would rather just tkae the easy option and point to 'ghetto' music and other such tosh because he doesn't have the desire nor the wherewithall to analyse the situation in terms of drivers and causation.

Black emancipation didn't magically transform ghettos into suburban idylls, which is perhaps what lowing presumes to have happened given his vacuous musings.

Good post........finally

However I will argue that TODAY the majority of the black population has never seen a world with whites only water fountains or colored bathrooms only.

TODAY a young person, black white or brown, has no excuse, not to achieve in life....I refuse to accept that I am poor because my GGG Grandfather was a slave, or my Grnadfather had to sit in the back of a bus......Opportunity is there for all who are willing to apply themselves. Period.


Something has got to change and American society has done its part to do so, now it is up to the black community to either forgive the "sins of our fathers" and join us in equality, or self destruct and continue to blame white people for it,  but I will not accept a past that you were not a part of, as an excuse for failure today. It is bullshit.


Not to even mention that there are plenty of poor white trash Cam. So your theory of priviledged whites just doesn't hold water.

The kind of slow change needed to heal the damage done by the slave era and the decades of segregation cannot be expected in such a short time and it's naive to think it should. It reminds me of the sketch in Family Guy where the white guy releases his slave after emancipation: "Okay, you're free to go..........we're cool, right?"

The attitudes and opinions of the racist generations of the past still linger in today's society and as such modern African Americans still face challenges, not the same challenges their ancestors faced but the lingering shadow of these challenges. While black Americans undeniably have a real shot at the American dream these days it is naive to think they have it as easy as white Americans.

Are you seriously trying to say the theory about the power/wealth divide doesn't hold because there are loads of white trash out there too? Lowing, the white people are the ones without an excuse, they are the truly lazy freeloaders.

lowing wrote:

Braddock wrote:

lowing wrote:

Good post........finally

However I will argue that TODAY the majority of the black population has never seen a world with whites only water fountains or colored bathrooms only.

TODAY a young person, black white or brown, has no excuse, not to achieve in life....I refuse to accept that I am poor because my GGG Grandfather was a slave, or my Grnadfather had to sit in the back of a bus......Opportunity is there for all who are willing to apply themselves. Period.


Something has got to change and American society has done its part to do so, now it is up to the black community to either forgive the "sins of our fathers" and join us in equality, or self destruct and continue to blame white people for it,  but I will not accept a past that you were not a part of, as an excuse for failure today. It is bullshit.


Not to even mention that there are plenty of poor white trash Cam. So your theory of priviledged whites just doesn't hold water.

The kind of slow change needed to heal the damage done by the slave era and the decades of segregation cannot be expected in such a short time and it's naive to think it should. It reminds me of the sketch in Family Guy where the white guy releases his slave after emancipation: "Okay, you're free to go..........we're cool, right?"

The attitudes and opinions of the racist generations of the past still linger in today's society and as such modern African Americans still face challenges, not the same challenges their ancestors faced but the lingering shadow of these challenges. While black Americans undeniably have a real shot at the American dream these days it is naive to think they have it as easy as white Americans.

Are you seriously trying to say the theory about the power/wealth divide doesn't hold because there are loads of white trash out there too? Lowing, the white people are the ones without an excuse, they are the truly lazy freeloaders.

WHat power wealth devide, I am white and I do not know a single truely rich person. I am middle class, just like everyone else, GENERALLY speaking. My world is made up of, hard work gets you rewarded, the silver spoon theory is reserved for truely an small select few in America, it is not the rule of thumb....Is it too much to ask that you work for your shit as hard I have to work for mine. All of the energy it takes to think of ways to blame whitey could be better spent getting educated...

An average black person today, has every bit of opportunity as an average white person....You go to school, get good grades, get a trade or higher education apply yourself and get rewarded for your efforts. that is it


No employer today is hiring "WHITES ONLY"

lowing wrote:

Uhhhhhhh Cam, I grew up on reduced lunch programs and govt. cheese. I grew up in effect poor, not homeless but poor...My parents couldn't afford t osend me to college. I learned a trade instead and applied it. So please spare me the silver spoon lecture.

So tell me juswt how long do you plan on excusing failure with the past?

Last edited by CameronPoe (2008-06-23 05:29:45)

Braddock wrote:

lowing wrote:

Braddock wrote:

The kind of slow change needed to heal the damage done by the slave era and the decades of segregation cannot be expected in such a short time and it's naive to think it should. It reminds me of the sketch in Family Guy where the white guy releases his slave after emancipation: "Okay, you're free to go..........we're cool, right?"

The attitudes and opinions of the racist generations of the past still linger in today's society and as such modern African Americans still face challenges, not the same challenges their ancestors faced but the lingering shadow of these challenges. While black Americans undeniably have a real shot at the American dream these days it is naive to think they have it as easy as white Americans.

Are you seriously trying to say the theory about the power/wealth divide doesn't hold because there are loads of white trash out there too? Lowing, the white people are the ones without an excuse, they are the truly lazy freeloaders.

WHat power wealth devide, I am white and I do not know a single truely rich person. I am middle class, just like everyone else, GENERALLY speaking. My world is made up of, hard work gets you rewarded, the silver spoon theory is reserved for truely an small select few in America, it is not the rule of thumb....Is it too much to ask that you work for your shit as hard I have to work for mine. All of the energy it takes to think of ways to blame whitey could be better spent getting educated...

An average black person today, has every bit of opportunity as an average white person....You go to school, get good grades, get a trade or higher education apply yourself and get rewarded for your efforts. that is it


No employer today is hiring "WHITES ONLY"

Well just as an example...you go to school, get good grades then go to a good college...except you're from a low level income family and can't afford it so you have to go to some small regional college (if you're lucky) and even if you could get a shot at one of the prestigious colleges you'd have to contend with an 'old boys' network that stretches right back into the racist, segregated past that we're trying to get away from.

Many things may be equal in today's American society lowing but surely you agree that some things are not. If a white anglo-saxon protestant from middle America and an African American from Inglewood were competing for the same place at Yale or Harvard who do you think would be more likely to get it?

lowing wrote:

Yale, Harvard??...........I don't know or accociate with anyone that went to either....Again you are trying to use examples of exclusivness that even most white people are excluded from.....Try bringing it down to earth and use everyday examples from every day opportunities.....I think you will find it hard to argue your point when you knck your examples down to things that are accessable to most white people.

Last edited by Braddock (2008-06-23 05:35:39)

lowing wrote:

CameronPoe wrote:

lowing wrote:

Uhhhhhhh Cam, I grew up on reduced lunch programs and govt. cheese. I grew up in effect poor, not homeless but poor...My parents couldn't afford t osend me to college. I learned a trade instead and applied it. So please spare me the silver spoon lecture.

So tell me juswt how long do you plan on excusing failure with the past?

Are you seriously using a single solitary example - yourself - upon which to base an assessment of a complex multi-faceted deep-rooted social issue? You truly are the king of generalisation. Did your parents instil in you the value of education and a work ethic? I don't quite think you dreamed it up all of your own accord when you were 6 years old.... Did your parents do drugs? Did they sell drugs? Were they separated when your were 5? Were they black (at about the time when blacks were second class citizens)? I thought not. Pffftt.

Ok Cam, since you are asking, I was born unto a 19 year old girl who was not ready to be a mother. I never knew my biological father, since he skipped out on us when I was 6 months old. We lived with my grandparents until my Mom couldn't take it anymore and married some asshole who was mentally and physically abusive to my Mom, myself and my sister. While with him we lived in a falling down apt. in Detroit. At 5 years old I was a latch key kid, ( something that your parents would go to jail for today). When she left him, we became trailer trash, while my Mom worked at a McDonalds and a furniture store. The furnature store is where she met my father that did most of my upbringing. He was a strict disiplinarian who had little time or emotion for kids that were not "his". He joined the military and so began our travels. He was enlisted with a wife and 3 kiids, ( I gained a half brother by this point) and anyone will tell you an entry level enlisted person with a family is sucking hind tit for money. So yeah Cam, I was not raised with a silver spoon, I was not raised by Ozzy and Harriet Nelson. I over came these childhood issues, and went on to develope issues of my own that I needed to over come.


So again I ask..............How long are you going to excuse personal failure with a past they had no part of suffering in?

lowing wrote:

Braddock wrote:

lowing wrote:

Uhhhhhhh Cam, I grew up on reduced lunch programs and govt. cheese. I grew up in effect poor, not homeless but poor...My parents couldn't afford t osend me to college. I learned a trade instead and applied it. So please spare me the silver spoon lecture.

So tell me juswt how long do you plan on excusing failure with the past?

Errrr, lowing I am sure there are black people who have done the same as you too...I am also sure there are plenty of white people who were in the same situation as you and who are now living in trailer parks or are in prison whining about how they never got a fair shot at life. The fact remains that none of your white ancestors had the added disadvantage of growing up in bondage.

DO you really wanna go on record and say that there has never been white slavery before?.......Go ahead, claim that, I dare ya.

Braddock wrote:

lowing wrote:

CameronPoe wrote:

Are you seriously using a single solitary example - yourself - upon which to base an assessment of a complex multi-faceted deep-rooted social issue? You truly are the king of generalisation. Did your parents instil in you the value of education and a work ethic? I don't quite think you dreamed it up all of your own accord when you were 6 years old.... Did your parents do drugs? Did they sell drugs? Were they separated when your were 5? Were they black (at about the time when blacks were second class citizens)? I thought not. Pffftt.

Ok Cam, since you are asking, I was born unto a 19 year old girl who was not ready to be a mother. I never knew my biological father, since he skipped out on us when I was 6 months old. We lived with my grandparents until my Mom couldn't take it anymore and married some asshole who was mentally and physically abusive to my Mom, myself and my sister. While with him we lived in a falling down apt. in Detroit. At 5 years old I was a latch key kid, ( something that your parents would go to jail for today). When she left him, we became trailer trash, while my Mom worked at a McDonalds and a furniture store. The furnature store is where she met my father that did most of my upbringing. He was a strict disiplinarian who had little time or emotion for kids that were not "his". He joined the military and so began our travels. He was enlisted with a wife and 3 kiids, ( I gained a half brother by this point) and anyone will tell you an entry level enlisted person with a family is sucking hind tit for money. So yeah Cam, I was not raised with a silver spoon, I was not raised by Ozzy and Harriet Nelson. I over came these childhood issues, and went on to develope issues of my own that I needed to over come.


So again I ask..............How long are you going to excuse personal failure with a past they had no part of suffering in?

How many of your ancestors were kept as slaves?

PureFodder wrote:

The civil rights movement is only a few decades old and the US has the lowest social mobility of any rich nation (just beaten by the UK) hence it's no particular wonder that black people tend to be poorer and hence have the associated high crime levels still.

Braddock wrote:

lowing wrote:

Braddock wrote:

There has NEVER been white slavery!

Just kidding! But seriously, do you actually want to try and go down the road of claiming that white people had it just as tough as black people when it comes to the issue of slavery? Seriously?

Well, since the word slavery comes from the root word, Slav, as in Slovic......so, you tell me

Where there many Slavic slaves in America?