BF2S Forums PKM, accuracy?????

Naw his right the PKM has Crap accuarcy u will get owned so easy at long and midium range but at close range it totaly owns all ground units also the metal aiming fork gets in your way when u right click.

Last edited by Cheating-Death (2005-09-23 18:08:01)

Your shooting style is also defined by your target: If I'm aiming for an NME soldier 100 to 200 meters away, 1 or two rounds at a time wil likely get him, or wound him enough to deter his enthusiasm for awhile . . .

But like all Squad Auto Weapons, "sniping" with a PKM is somewhat absurd, and a last resort tactic (I'd rather use my pistol). My primary job is to be moving with my squad, supplying ammo, and using  buildings and terrain to gain advantageous positions to provide short-burst "base of fire" to slow NME troop advance and manoevers and keep their heads down so my people can effectively overrun them. If I also get more than "kill assists" as a result, that's just icing on my Stats cake.

My secondary purpose (as I see it) is to hammer the Hell out of any light vehicles or marauding choppers in my area of control. I can inflict serious damage on the crews of transport vehicles and BlackHawks; protect the Friendly armor assets sopporting our attack, and thwart most of the flag-hopping Cobra / Havoc pilots that madly flee for a repair pad after taking 50% damage (apparently they're terrified of losing their ride, and actually having to fight on foot). Since these are larger targets that are usually engaged at close to moderate range, longer bursts will still place almost all shots fired as hits.

BTW - The real PK/M weapons fire the 7.62x54R cartridge, a close ballistic equivelent to the US .30-06 military / sporting cartridge; and it's tactical counter-part, the Browning Automatic Rifle (BAR), was also meant to be fired from a prone position for best accuracy. In fact, the BAR suffers the same problems when fired with greater than 3 - 5 shot bursts, becoming wildly innaccurate; and overheating a BAR barrel was still an issue, even with the limitation of a 20 round box magazine.

I've fired real BAR's, and let me assure you: "Firing from the shoulder" in a prone position doesn't "reduce" the recoil which is inherant to the firearm regardless of shooting position - it simply provides greater control in spite of it.

I have personally fired many (more than half) of the small arms (or varients) modelled in BF2, and I find most of the representations to be rather accurate. I submit that these "A real <insert weapon here> would / wouldn't <insert your complaint here> do that" gripes are completely pointless since a.) IT'S A GAME and not a "simulation"; and b.) Most of the complaintants "experience" is limited to other games, movie director fantasies, TV docu-dramas, and the History Channel . . .

Did I mention that it's just a game?

Last edited by T1mbrW0lf (2005-09-24 09:17:20)

I was very disapointed with the PKM at first but then i learned how to use it and the accursy seemed to improve.

I've used all of the support weapons, and am in the process of honing my skills with them until I can unlock the PKM (6k more points ) and I've found the PKM(when I pick it up off people) to be stronger, more accurate, and an all around better gun... when used correctly. sure it has slower rate of fire, and smaller clips, but the accuracy and strength outweighs that crap.

The PKM, like all real machine guns, fires from an open bolt, where most rifles and pistols fire from a closed bolt.  A closed bolt system is much more accurate, but a machine gun needs an open bolt exposed to air after every round so that the next round in the chamber doesn't "cook off" from too much heat. 

The problem with that is that every time the trigger is pulled, the bolt has to travel all the way closed BEFORE the shot is fired, and that heavy bolt assembly crashing into place tends to throw the aim off a bit, even with a bipod. 

You also have to factor in barrel design, which is meant for sustained fire, so has to be more rugged and less accurate, not to mention the fact that most barrels are meant to be changed in a hurry, and designing quick-swap barrels doesn't lend itself to accuracy either.

A MG barrel has to deal with extremes in heat that a normal rifle would never deal with, it has to handle tracer rounds and dirty ammo, and every round that goes down a barrel wears it out some.  If you made it to more precise rifle specs it'd be worn out and useless in a very short period of time.  An assault rifle in a combat environment *might* fire a few hundred rounds per day (and be cleaned daily), where a MG is expected to fire that much in minutes.

Then there's the ammo itself, which is generally not as "hot" a load as a rifle round, (even if it's the same caliber) once again because the need for sustained fire means it's a good idea to limit the stresses on the gun when possible. 

Another issue is that even with a bipod, there's still a LOT of recoil and muzzle climb when firing a 7.62 MG, trust me.  You can muscle the weapon around to compensate, (you might notice how a gunner usually has his non-trigger hand on TOP of the MG when firing prone from a bipod, that's to limit climb).  But all that does is keep the rounds going in the right general direction, it ain't much for pinpoint accuracy. 

You make up for that lack of precision by putting a LOT of rounds out there.  MG's simply aren't meant for "aimed fire", they're meant for suppressive fire and volume of fire and reliability.  Generally, you use the sights to get it pointed in the right general direction, and "walk it in" on a target by watching the tracers, which are your real sights. 

To be REALLY effective (rather than just scary), a MG requires a prepared position, range markers, and enfilade firing lanes, which doesn't happen much in BF2.

That said, the PKM *is* more accurate in BF2 than the lighter MGs, simply due to the way they calculate recoil (the same applies to the G3, btw). 

Since it's slower firing you as a player have more time to adjust before recoil catches up.  Factor in the increased damage output per round, and you have a higher kill probability with a PKM because more rounds are likely to impact the target and it takes fewer of them to score a kill.  But you *still* need to put a lot of rounds out there compared to a rifle.

The top mounted guns are more accurate because the mount (and vehicle) aborbs most of the recoil, the .50 rounds have a hella flat trajectory at normal engagement ranges (even with "loose" MG tolerances), and the whole assembly is so damned heavy that muzzle climb is not as big a factor. 

And in purely BF2 terms, the vehicle mounted weapons can be more accurate and deadly for balance reasons.  You don't spawn with them, for one thing.

Croak wrote:

The PKM, like all real machine guns, fires from an open bolt, where most rifles and pistols fire from a closed bolt.  A closed bolt system is much more accurate, but a machine gun needs an open bolt exposed to air after every round so that the next round in the chamber doesn't "cook off" from too much heat. 

The problem with that is that every time the trigger is pulled, the bolt has to travel all the way closed BEFORE the shot is fired, and that heavy bolt assembly crashing into place tends to throw the aim off a bit, even with a bipod. 

You also have to factor in barrel design, which is meant for sustained fire, so has to be more rugged and less accurate, not to mention the fact that most barrels are meant to be changed in a hurry, and designing quick-swap barrels doesn't lend itself to accuracy either.

Agreed. An open-bolt GPMG (General Purpose Machine Gun, Usually 7.62 Cal) can be wildly inaccurate at times. A good example is the M16. It is possible to fire the M-16 (or AR-16 whichever way you would rather have it) at full auto, but the M-16 is primary a close-bolt system, auto firing would make it extremely inaccurate.

Croak wrote:

Another issue is that even with a bipod, there's still a LOT of recoil and muzzle climb when firing a 7.62 MG, trust me.  You can muscle the weapon around to compensate, (you might notice how a gunner usually has his non-trigger hand on TOP of the MG when firing prone from a bipod, that's to limit climb).  But all that does is keep the rounds going in the right general direction, it ain't much for pinpoint accuracy.

You make up for that lack of precision by putting a LOT of rounds out there.  MG's simply aren't meant for "aimed fire", they're meant for suppressive fire and volume of fire and reliability.  Generally, you use the sights to get it pointed in the right general direction, and "walk it in" on a target by watching the tracers, which are your real sights.

I disagree on this point though. MGs are just not meant to be used for sustained fire. Sure, quick bursts of 10-15 rounds is alright, but any more than that? Nope. The way I see it, the MG should be used to fire quick bursts of fire to discourage enemies from closing in on the MGunner's position. I've seen MGs fire, they blast through cement, plaster boards, EVERYTHING. lol.

Croak wrote:

To be REALLY effective (rather than just scary), a MG requires a prepared position, range markers, and enfilade firing lanes, which doesn't happen much in BF2.

That much is true too. And any MG gunner would need someone to feed for him.

Croak wrote:

That said, the PKM *is* more accurate in BF2 than the lighter MGs, simply due to the way they calculate recoil (the same applies to the G3, btw). 

Since it's slower firing you as a player have more time to adjust before recoil catches up.  Factor in the increased damage output per round, and you have a higher kill probability with a PKM because more rounds are likely to impact the target and it takes fewer of them to score a kill.  But you *still* need to put a lot of rounds out there compared to a rifle.

The top mounted guns are more accurate because the mount (and vehicle) aborbs most of the recoil, the .50 rounds have a hella flat trajectory at normal engagement ranges (even with "loose" MG tolerances), and the whole assembly is so damned heavy that muzzle climb is not as big a factor. 

And in purely BF2 terms, the vehicle mounted weapons can be more accurate and deadly for balance reasons.  You don't spawn with them, for one thing.

People who can use the PKm well already scare the hell out of me. I used to play with this guy who'll take out a guy with just 2 quick bursts. See a guy, prone, 2 bursts, stand up and continue running. God he was SO good.

Good call kilroy.

As an after note, both support weapons seem surprisingly realistic.

Aiming with Zoom option helps alot because you can keep your cone of fire within the metal sights.

pish180 wrote:

One thing that would be really neat addition would be the ability to put your bipod on a ledge for extra stability.  (example: 2nd spawn pt in karkand, over the ledge. The only way to do this currently is to expose your entire body by laying on top of the ledge).  Bc you cant hit a damn thing with it standing up more then 2 feet away... hahah.  Which is realistic.  I am glad EA figured in the deviatiations of the weapons according to what position you are in....

Its one of the things I wish the physics engine was capable of. Many a time I see the opportunity to shoot over a low lying wall or sandbags but I find that crouch is too short and I can't see over and standing is too far above and I am a big target. There just isn't a realistic position in which you are barely over the sandbag with your weapon on top of it with you head just high enough to see through the sites. Its a fairly common combat position using such things as cover. You would think that all sandbags or low lying walls would have at least some sections that would be low enough so that the crouch position gave you the effect I am describing. Or a part of the wall that is high enough so that you get this effect while standing.

Either way there isn't a good way in the current game of firing over half walls or sandbags and not present to the enemy most of your body either standing or prone on top of a wall. Unless you are on a MG mount which gives you slight cover but still not enough.

I have to agree, I was a medic for a while and was just plain sick, tired, and f*in pissed off of dying so others could get points. I switched over to support instead and went nuts on everyone. It felt good so I stuck with that kit and Im glad to say Im in the top 1000 for my LMG and Support.  I tended to use the RPK-74 over the M249 SAW.  I never liked the SAW and found the RPK to be way more accurate.  I then switched over when I made Corporal and unlocked the PKM. Immediately I had a field day with it.  I will gripe a tiny bit about its accuracy, Its like when you want it to be accurate its not, and when you want it to have a somewhat wider spread, it doesn't.  I however, love running into the USMC with it at close range, when Im standing, they try to run a circle around me while reloading their M203's or GP-30's (Which is my number one cause of death right behind armor killing me), and I hit them while they reload.  My next favorite way of killing with is when people try to bunny hop or frog hop, it makes it easier to kill because my gun automatically climbs a bit when they do that and it's like the gun cuts their feet out from under them.  I end up nailing them right in groin or cutting their legs out from under them, causing them to go head over heals literally .  Most enjoyable, PKM ROCKS!!!!!!!!!!!

I saw this post on the PKM and had to put my .02$ in....
Im twenty or thirty somthing in support and I say PKM RULES!!!

Great gun... What helps me is running up to corners and jumping while proning so you land prone on the other side of the corner then you light up the guys crotch !!!  Another in-game technique is to not fire RIGHT when you go prone, wait a millasecond then start firing. (I never fire in bursts.... mabey a good idea in other games... but not in this one....) just wait a sec after proning and hold that trigger down ~.

Go PkM !

Last edited by MurrayP (2005-10-01 22:28:42)

well i guess ive seen peaple kill me standing up and peaple with aimbot and norecoil kill me ALOT!!!.

Ah, it's all good, what I like is killing jumpers by cutting their legs out from underneath them, running circles in a firefight and takin someone down with my pkm, and or (if it could happen) gunbutt them