What the fuck is a football bat? Or was that your point... Either way, I can think of things that are far more fucked up than said football bat.lowing wrote:
You, and this post are about as fucked up as a football bat.Scorpion0x17 wrote:
...is how it totally fucks people up.
I've known numerous ex-military people in my time and, whether they've seen combat or not, they often come out of it broken people.
Why is this?
Is it the techniques of breaking the trainee down and rebuilding them used in basic training?
Or something else?
For me it seems that basic training closely equates with the kind of brainwashing techniques used by cult organisations, this combined with the lack of after-care when people leave, seems to leave a lot of people broken shells of their former selves.
By reading this post it is obvious you have no idea as to what the hell you are talking about, or are purposely trying to be an annoying little prick. I got even money on both.
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*sigh* Not Again.
Obviously you've never seen the guy on the wheelchair in front of my post office with crippled hands and a speech disorder from being shot in the neck who was trained to type and answer phones.FEOS wrote:
I've known military people all my life and I've NEVER met someone I would describe as "broken". I've met many I would describe as "driven", "motivated", "goal-oriented", "perfectionist", "detail-oriented", "honorable", and "selfless". But never "broken".
Or they practically inject you with adenovirus, shrug, and boot people who become too sick to carry on.SEREMAKER wrote:
now they do break you down in bootcamp but they build you to be better (or at least they do a good job at trying )
Last edited by unnamednewbie13 (2008-04-23 16:15:57)
Obviously not. But I have seen the ranks that come by the Pentagon and seen those who are inpatients at Walter Reed and Bethesda--can you say that you have? Despite their physical condition, I wouldn't dare refer to them as "broken" or "shells of their former selves".unnamednewbie13 wrote:
Obviously you've never seen the guy on the wheelchair in front of my post office with crippled hands and a speech disorder from being shot in the neck who was trained to type and answer phones.FEOS wrote:
I've known military people all my life and I've NEVER met someone I would describe as "broken". I've met many I would describe as "driven", "motivated", "goal-oriented", "perfectionist", "detail-oriented", "honorable", and "selfless". But never "broken".
“Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.”
― Albert Einstein
Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular
― Albert Einstein
Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular
*forehead slap*FEOS wrote:
Obviously not. But I have seen the ranks that come by the Pentagon and seen those who are inpatients at Walter Reed and Bethesda--can you say that you have? Despite their physical condition, I wouldn't dare refer to them as "broken" or "shells of their former selves".unnamednewbie13 wrote:
Obviously you've never seen the guy on the wheelchair in front of my post office with crippled hands and a speech disorder from being shot in the neck who was trained to type and answer phones.FEOS wrote:
I've known military people all my life and I've NEVER met someone I would describe as "broken". I've met many I would describe as "driven", "motivated", "goal-oriented", "perfectionist", "detail-oriented", "honorable", and "selfless". But never "broken".
Gee! I guess everybody's happy!
Did I ever say "everybody's happy"? Did I? Even once?
“Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.”
― Albert Einstein
Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular
― Albert Einstein
Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular
I bet you the Local OIF vet who's in a wheel chair, who still stands up when the National Anthem plays is broken too.
Am I broken because I served in Iraq or the Ghan? not so much, Some people respond to these stressfull situations differently, I for one could handle getting mortared on, shot at and nearly getting blown up in a humvee.
Am I broken because of marriage that failed while In the military? yes, but thats on different plane of thinking.
I know one thing is for certain, I don't get upset when stupid stuff happens to me but I do love watching other people get red in the face when they get a flat tire or their beloved TPS report isn't handed in on time.
I think it boils down to if you can handle the riggers of combat or not. Now I do know a few Marines that didn't get to deploy with the rest of us grunts, they aren't "broken" but do have a little anger and depression because they didn't go with us and lost a few friends over there.
Funny how everybody is going on and on about PTSD.. but nobody ever hears about Survivors Guilt, which I do have and have to deal with every day, for those of you that don't understand it boils down to why did I live instead of him? I was standing next to him and he got hit with the bullet or why did those grunts die in that humvee explosion but my crew and I survived? Why couldn't I stop the bleeding? Could I have done something different?.. Some days it hurts, it hurts bad. I spent a few days of my life wasted on booze in bars trying to kill the pain and ignoring everything around me for a few rounds of BF2. eventaully I did figure out why I got to live. My son.
Am I broken because of marriage that failed while In the military? yes, but thats on different plane of thinking.
I know one thing is for certain, I don't get upset when stupid stuff happens to me but I do love watching other people get red in the face when they get a flat tire or their beloved TPS report isn't handed in on time.
I think it boils down to if you can handle the riggers of combat or not. Now I do know a few Marines that didn't get to deploy with the rest of us grunts, they aren't "broken" but do have a little anger and depression because they didn't go with us and lost a few friends over there.
Funny how everybody is going on and on about PTSD.. but nobody ever hears about Survivors Guilt, which I do have and have to deal with every day, for those of you that don't understand it boils down to why did I live instead of him? I was standing next to him and he got hit with the bullet or why did those grunts die in that humvee explosion but my crew and I survived? Why couldn't I stop the bleeding? Could I have done something different?.. Some days it hurts, it hurts bad. I spent a few days of my life wasted on booze in bars trying to kill the pain and ignoring everything around me for a few rounds of BF2. eventaully I did figure out why I got to live. My son.
'I've NEVER met someone I would describe as "broken".'FEOS wrote:
Did I ever say "everybody's happy"? Did I? Even once?
You were quick to attack the mentioning of the wheelchair guy though.
So me stating that I've never met anyone who fits that criteria is saying that "everybody's happy"? Puh...leeeze.unnamednewbie13 wrote:
'I've NEVER met someone I would describe as "broken".'FEOS wrote:
Did I ever say "everybody's happy"? Did I? Even once?
You were quick to attack the mentioning of the wheelchair guy though.
And I didn't attack the mentioning of the wheelchair guy. I said I hadn't ever seen him (which was in agreement with what you said) and then said you obviously (to use your own words) hadn't met the vets in wheelchairs I had that countered your observation.
Chill out, Francis.
“Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.”
― Albert Einstein
Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular
― Albert Einstein
Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular
Clarification: I know there are plenty of disabled vets who are not broken in the manner you refer to. I took your statement as a challenge against its possibility, and brought up a [real] scenario where it was possible: Guy who can't do the civilian job he was trained for, admittedly depressed about being reduced to sitting around with a donation box. Doesn't help that one or two philanthropist Christians harp on him about being Jewish even while bringing him hot drinks. I suppose the fact that he hasn't committed suicide yet is testament to the fact that he isn't too broken, but there are a lot who do fit the description, whether due to their experiences or to their medication.FEOS wrote:
Obviously not. But I have seen the ranks that come by the Pentagon and seen those who are inpatients at Walter Reed and Bethesda--can you say that you have? Despite their physical condition, I wouldn't dare refer to them as "broken" or "shells of their former selves".unnamednewbie13 wrote:
Obviously you've never seen the guy on the wheelchair in front of my post office with crippled hands and a speech disorder from being shot in the neck who was trained to type and answer phones.FEOS wrote:
I've known military people all my life and I've NEVER met someone I would describe as "broken". I've met many I would describe as "driven", "motivated", "goal-oriented", "perfectionist", "detail-oriented", "honorable", and "selfless". But never "broken".
Glad to see you say that it isn't all daisies, though.
As to the OP, that was pretty far out there, but there are cases...
I know it's an asshole, anti-sentimentalist thing to say, but random factor had nothing to do with it?S3v3N wrote:
Eventaully I did figure out why I got to live. My son.
Last edited by unnamednewbie13 (2008-04-24 02:10:40)
OK, let me turn the question around a little:
How come most of the fucked up and broken people I meet turn out to have had some connection to the military?
How come most of the fucked up and broken people I meet turn out to have had some connection to the military?
I'd like to go on record that everyone has a personal responsibility and accountability for how they choose to react to external stimulus. It seems that weak and directionless people often find their way into the military as they are drawn to the structure and sense of purpose it infuses. This is NOT TO SAY that everyone in the military is this type or even the majority. Weak minded and directionless people are more prone to be broken or "fucked up" in the first place and the military just happens to be that trigger due to their life choices. This goes for all reactions to trauma. You choose how to react. If someone puts a gun to your head and says, "Do this or die," you still have a choice in that matter and are personally accountable for it.
Good point Puck, that's something I hadn't considered, and it would explain both the seeming corellation I perceive, between fucked-up-and-broken-people and the military, and the various replies in this thread from people who know numerous non-fucked-up-veterans.
I suppose it depends on your definition of "fucked up and broken". That means different things to different people...maybe because you are sir hippy boy, others would view you as "fucked up and broken"...it is all relative, my friend.Scorpion0x17 wrote:
OK, let me turn the question around a little:
How come most of the fucked up and broken people I meet turn out to have had some connection to the military?
Last edited by tuckergustav (2008-04-27 10:55:26)
...
'sir hippy boy' ROFL.tuckergustav wrote:
I suppose it depends on your definition of "fucked up and broken". That means different things to different people...maybe because you are sir hippy boy, others would view you as "fucked up and broken"...it is all relative, my friend.Scorpion0x17 wrote:
OK, let me turn the question around a little:
How come most of the fucked up and broken people I meet turn out to have had some connection to the military?
And, DAMN YOU! I might have to change my 'title' now...
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