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2008-04-22 18:20:04
FallenMorgan
Member
+53|5905|Glendale, CA

Turquoise wrote:

Polygamy is illegal, so it's inevitable that the families will be broken up.  Aside from that, keeping people isolated in a cult like environment should be something bordering on illegal in and of itself.
You can't make cults illegal, but you can make the things they do illegal.  Most cults just have weird beliefs.

I'd want Texas kicked out of the Union if they give the kids back.  Sending the kids back to that hell would be like if we sent every German Jewish immigrant back to Germany during WWII
2008-04-22 18:21:09
ATG
Banned
+5,233|6520|Global Command

FallenMorgan wrote:

Kmarion wrote:

ThomasMorgan wrote:

Creepy.  As.  Fuck.
Dude.. they lost their kids. I'd go nuts if I lost my little girl. Shit, I'd  probably even put on one of those blue dresses. As it stands right now we don't know exactly what was going on. If they are proven guilty it's a different story.

SEREMAKER wrote:

but ........but ............... they look soooooooooooo hawt
Not bad for laying sod all day.
So a few fundamentalist wackos are more important than the welfare of 400-something children?

You do realise that if the girls go back, they will grow up to be raped and abused if they aren't fully brainwashed.  In that big church, there was a bed with female hair on it - I can only imagine what sexual abuse went on.  The women in that group were probably brainwashed to believe in that stuff through frequent physical abuse.

On Dr. Phil they had a girl who escaped from the group with her mom in Salt Lake City.  Her mom cut her hair and whatnot, and they decided to get rid of her and whatnot.  I'm glad Warren Jeffs is in prison.  What I hope is that right as I type this, he's getting buttfucked by some guy named Molly.
While I agree with some of what you are saying, I must confess that in general, your ignorance on the subject is annoying.
2008-04-22 18:25:13
imortal
Member
+240|6656|Austin, TX

FallenMorgan wrote:

The FLDS is the biggest bunch of sick fucks on earth.  Perfect example of how fundamentalists brainwash their offspring.  I think we should set up re-education camps for these types, for their own good.  They should NOT have their kids back to be raped and forced to marry old men.  Fuck these sick fucks.
(highlighting is mine)

Dangerous ground to begin walking.  Who is to determine what to "re-educate" them to, and what that will be?  How does that set a precedent to "re-educate" others that fall far from the norm?  Will there be other catagories that must be "re-educated""for their own good," which really means 'to a form I can accept.'  How far do you want it to go?
2008-04-22 18:27:51
FallenMorgan
Member
+53|5905|Glendale, CA

imortal wrote:

FallenMorgan wrote:

The FLDS is the biggest bunch of sick fucks on earth.  Perfect example of how fundamentalists brainwash their offspring.  I think we should set up re-education camps for these types, for their own good.  They should NOT have their kids back to be raped and forced to marry old men.  Fuck these sick fucks.
(highlighting is mine)

Dangerous ground to begin walking.  Who is to determine what to "re-educate" them to, and what that will be?  How does that set a precedent to "re-educate" others that fall far from the norm?  Will there be other catagories that must be "re-educated""for their own good," which really means 'to a form I can accept.'  How far do you want it to go?
I was blowing off steam.  These things really piss me off.

I kinda sorta meant they need to be given psychological help and the like, to reverse any brainwashing.
2008-04-22 18:29:35
Kmar
Truth is my Bitch
+5,695|6592|132 and Bush

ATG wrote:

FallenMorgan wrote:

Kmarion wrote:

Dude.. they lost their kids. I'd go nuts if I lost my little girl. Shit, I'd  probably even put on one of those blue dresses. As it stands right now we don't know exactly what was going on. If they are proven guilty it's a different story.


Not bad for laying sod all day.
So a few fundamentalist wackos are more important than the welfare of 400-something children?

You do realise that if the girls go back, they will grow up to be raped and abused if they aren't fully brainwashed.  In that big church, there was a bed with female hair on it - I can only imagine what sexual abuse went on.  The women in that group were probably brainwashed to believe in that stuff through frequent physical abuse.

On Dr. Phil they had a girl who escaped from the group with her mom in Salt Lake City.  Her mom cut her hair and whatnot, and they decided to get rid of her and whatnot.  I'm glad Warren Jeffs is in prison.  What I hope is that right as I type this, he's getting buttfucked by some guy named Molly.
While I agree with some of what you are saying, I must confess that in general, your ignorance on the subject is annoying.
He didn't even get the part where I said: If they are proven guilty it's a different story. Other than that I don't give a flying crap. We all brainwash our kids. FFS Nickelodeon brainwashes our kids. We do live in a free country you know. I don't know what kind of fucked up police state you want but the government can go to hell when it comes to telling me how I raise my kids. If the law isn't broken tell big brother to piss off. Maybe the bold type helped this time
Xbone Stormsurgezz
2008-04-22 18:36:08
FallenMorgan
Member
+53|5905|Glendale, CA

Kmarion wrote:

ATG wrote:

FallenMorgan wrote:


So a few fundamentalist wackos are more important than the welfare of 400-something children?

You do realise that if the girls go back, they will grow up to be raped and abused if they aren't fully brainwashed.  In that big church, there was a bed with female hair on it - I can only imagine what sexual abuse went on.  The women in that group were probably brainwashed to believe in that stuff through frequent physical abuse.

On Dr. Phil they had a girl who escaped from the group with her mom in Salt Lake City.  Her mom cut her hair and whatnot, and they decided to get rid of her and whatnot.  I'm glad Warren Jeffs is in prison.  What I hope is that right as I type this, he's getting buttfucked by some guy named Molly.
While I agree with some of what you are saying, I must confess that in general, your ignorance on the subject is annoying.
He didn't even get the part where I said: If they are proven guilty it's a different story. Other than that I don't give a flying crap. We all brainwash our kids. FFS Nickelodeon brainwashes our kids. We do live in a free country you know. I don't know what kind of fucked up police state you want but the government can go to hell when it comes to telling me how I raise my kids. If the law isn't broken tell big brother to piss off. Maybe the bold type helped this time
There's a difference between raising your kids, and telling little girls that they are inferior to men, and that they can only get into heaven or whatever if they have ten kids.  There's also reported cases of child molestation, rape, physical abuse, and so on.  Yep, that's good parenting, huh?
2008-04-22 18:42:43
Kmar
Truth is my Bitch
+5,695|6592|132 and Bush

FallenMorgan wrote:

Kmarion wrote:

ATG wrote:

While I agree with some of what you are saying, I must confess that in general, your ignorance on the subject is annoying.
He didn't even get the part where I said: If they are proven guilty it's a different story. Other than that I don't give a flying crap. We all brainwash our kids. FFS Nickelodeon brainwashes our kids. We do live in a free country you know. I don't know what kind of fucked up police state you want but the government can go to hell when it comes to telling me how I raise my kids. If the law isn't broken tell big brother to piss off. Maybe the bold type helped this time
There's a difference between raising your kids, and telling little girls that they are inferior to men, and that they can only get into heaven or whatever if they have ten kids.  There's also reported cases of child molestation, rape, physical abuse, and so on.  Yep, that's good parenting, huh?
You just dont get it. Rape, physical abuse, molestation is illegal right?  So now, for the third time in a row: If the law isn't broken tell big brother to piss off. As far as who is inferior etc.. bigotry is an opinion. It is the job of Society to sort out moral standards, not the government. It is not the role of the government to force any belief on anyone. I have a problem taking a lesson in morals from the state in any sense. Think about what you are suggesting Comrade.
Xbone Stormsurgezz
2008-04-22 18:42:56
Turquoise
O Canada
+1,596|6396|North Carolina

Kmarion wrote:

He didn't even get the part where I said: If they are proven guilty it's a different story. Other than that I don't give a flying crap. We all brainwash our kids. FFS Nickelodeon brainwashes our kids. We do live in a free country you know. I don't know what kind of fucked up police state you want but the government can go to hell when it comes to telling me how I raise my kids. If the law isn't broken tell big brother to piss off. Maybe the bold type helped this time
There comes a point where social services should get involved.  To me, this cultish behavior on the part of the FLDS is basically child abuse.

Normally, I err on the side of freedom, but I don't when it comes to religion and cults.
2008-04-22 18:46:01
Kmar
Truth is my Bitch
+5,695|6592|132 and Bush

Turquoise wrote:

Kmarion wrote:

He didn't even get the part where I said: If they are proven guilty it's a different story. Other than that I don't give a flying crap. We all brainwash our kids. FFS Nickelodeon brainwashes our kids. We do live in a free country you know. I don't know what kind of fucked up police state you want but the government can go to hell when it comes to telling me how I raise my kids. If the law isn't broken tell big brother to piss off. Maybe the bold type helped this time
There comes a point where social services should get involved.  To me, this cultish behavior on the part of the FLDS is basically child abuse.

Normally, I err on the side of freedom, but I don't when it comes to religion and cults.
Isn't it obvious that I agree? Damn, am I speaking a different language tonight? If their is physical abuse, rape, molestation..etc... then fucking hell yea the state should get involved.
Xbone Stormsurgezz
2008-04-22 19:21:21
ATG
Banned
+5,233|6520|Global Command
Some people just will never fucking get it.

All she had to do was lie.
Now look.


Hordes of eager beavers ready to empower the state to breakup families.

What about the Catholics moving pedophiles from parish to parish? They talk shit about immigration policy too yet remain tax exempt.
Maddening.
2008-04-23 06:59:09
SFCCDailey
Banned
+106|6707|USA
Someone quick........tell those nuttjobs not to drink the Kool-aid!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
2008-04-23 16:37:00
calamity
Member
+1|6635|Canada eh? where that weed at
if i am not mistaken, and believe me, i may be, but wasn't there a lot of imbreeding going on in this compound, i didn't really know anything about paligamy or anything until this story broke out
2008-04-23 20:18:06
Turquoise
O Canada
+1,596|6396|North Carolina

ATG wrote:

Some people just will never fucking get it.

All she had to do was lie.
Now look.


Hordes of eager beavers ready to empower the state to breakup families.

What about the Catholics moving pedophiles from parish to parish? They talk shit about immigration policy too yet remain tax exempt.
Maddening.
If we were a more logical society, we would not grant tax exemption to ANY religion, but that's another discussion altogether.

This situation with the FLDS is just more proof that social services should be better funded and more proactive in dealing with abusive households and cults.  And as for Catholics, yes, the government should thoroughly investigate all clergy suspected of pedophilia.  Infiltration of the Church may be necessary for progress in this endeavor.
2008-04-24 03:32:16
JahManRed
wank
+646|6619|IRELAND

*Waiting until it all comes out in court before judging. Don't know all the facts and not prepared to listen to here say on this one*
2008-04-24 04:40:07
B.Schuss
I'm back, baby... ( sort of )
+664|6832|Cologne, Germany

Kmarion wrote:

Turquoise wrote:

Kmarion wrote:

He didn't even get the part where I said: If they are proven guilty it's a different story. Other than that I don't give a flying crap. We all brainwash our kids. FFS Nickelodeon brainwashes our kids. We do live in a free country you know. I don't know what kind of fucked up police state you want but the government can go to hell when it comes to telling me how I raise my kids. If the law isn't broken tell big brother to piss off. Maybe the bold type helped this time
There comes a point where social services should get involved.  To me, this cultish behavior on the part of the FLDS is basically child abuse.

Normally, I err on the side of freedom, but I don't when it comes to religion and cults.
Isn't it obvious that I agree? Damn, am I speaking a different language tonight? If their is physical abuse, rape, molestation..etc... then fucking hell yea the state should get involved.
so you're against rape, physical abuse, and molestation, but you would be ok with religious fundamentalists living in colonies isolated from the "real" world, and raising their children in some kind of middle age environment ?

I realize that every parent has an influence on his/her child, but come on. Shouldn't parents at least try to raise their children in an environment that resembles reality, and not some fundamentalist theme park ? I mean, maybe I am exaggerating here, but from my point of view, the way these children are raised will make it impossible for them to even make a choice about wether they want to live like that or not.

If that's your definition of "freedom", then I don't want it, sorry.
2008-04-24 05:00:29
DeathBecomesYu
Member
+171|6171
Let me ask this to you guys and gals. As a country we need to be careful about treading on what people believe or how they choose to live. The Amish people live exactly how they want and most people have no problem with them. They live, in many ways, like this cult. No, I am not saying that they are a cult, I am saying that they live by a strict code and by their religious beliefs and the rest of us are basically outsiders to them.

Anyhow, they are going to live the way they want and that is their decision and we should all respect it whether we like it or not. Now, the situation with this other "cult" where the children were taken away. I can certainly see why. I just watched a program about how many teen-aged boys have been ostracized from this closed society for doing something as little as watching music videos. There is a large group of teen-aged boys who basically have been orphaned by their "parents". I have a big problem with that. I have seen these mothers on TV acting like they are victims and didn't do anything wrong when probably many of them gave up their sons because they watched a movie somewhere...nice christian ethic of forgiveness or "turning the other cheek".

There is obviously some pretty bad things coming out and it probably has to with many of the kids they have abandoned and the ones they are trying to hide away. There is obvious abuse here, not physically, but little girls getting pregnant, teen boys being made homeless....then someone needs to step in and I believe the right thing has been done. You can have your beliefs, you can live the way you want, but don't harm your children to these extremes. My two cents.
2008-04-24 06:19:44
ATG
Banned
+5,233|6520|Global Command
She doesn't look like a polygamist.


http://www.rockymountainnews.com/news/2 … olo-woman/
2008-04-24 08:50:55
tuckergustav
...
+1,590|5905|...

B.Schuss wrote:

I realize that every parent has an influence on his/her child, but come on. Shouldn't parents at least try to raise their children in an environment that resembles reality, and not some fundamentalist theme park ? I mean, maybe I am exaggerating here, but from my point of view, the way these children are raised will make it impossible for them to even make a choice about wether they want to live like that or not.

If that's your definition of "freedom", then I don't want it, sorry.
It's true that parents should be more responsible for how they raise their children, but who sets those standards?  I could imagine that to THEM the rest of the world seems like a theme park.  and they are looking at every other person and thinking...wow, they should do it differently.  That is just how the world works.

And some people "escape" from that community on their own.  Carolyn Jessop wrote a book about her escape...it is called 'Escape'(lol). I haven't read it yet, but I am sure I will soon.  I listened to an interview with her on NPR (before all this happened)...very interesting.  I am sure this is doing wonders for her book though huh?
...
2008-04-24 09:53:52
IRONCHEF
Member
+385|6482|Northern California

JahManRed wrote:

*Waiting until it all comes out in court before judging. Don't know all the facts and not prepared to listen to here say on this one*
Wow, someone being fair.  +1 to you sir!

It'd be nice if moms and kids could be together, even if they had visitation for part of the day.  I haven't watched anything on TV so i don't know if this is already happening or if they are completely isolated.  But 400 kids, brainwashed or not, need their mommies (brainwashed or not).  Not some Texan state-run people who are likely countering their flds brainwashing with their own baptist brainwashing. 

When the state arrogantly pretends to know what's best for children, I take serious offense.  I realize that some parents are a danger to kids, but the disparity between that and the other is too great.
2008-04-24 10:07:40
FallenMorgan
Member
+53|5905|Glendale, CA

ATG wrote:

She doesn't look like a polygamist.


http://www.rockymountainnews.com/news/2 … olo-woman/
Warren Jeffs hated black people, but I say good for her.  She freed children from a situation where women are treated like dogs and whatnot.
2008-04-24 10:45:18
SenorToenails
Veritas et Scientia
+444|6121|North Tonawanda, NY

FallenMorgan wrote:

Warren Jeffs hated black people, but I say good for her.  She freed children from a situation where women are treated like dogs and whatnot.
Is it even clear that any crimes have been committed here?

I agree with ATG, and I find it alarming that so many people are willing to deny freedom from groups of people simply because they disagree with the lifestyle.
2008-04-24 10:56:09
PuckMercury
6 x 9 = 42
+298|6518|Portland, OR USA

SenorToenails wrote:

FallenMorgan wrote:

Warren Jeffs hated black people, but I say good for her.  She freed children from a situation where women are treated like dogs and whatnot.
Is it even clear that any crimes have been committed here?

I agree with ATG, and I find it alarming that so many people are willing to deny freedom from groups of people simply because they disagree with the lifestyle.
I'll third (or more) the motion.

I might abhor what's going on.  I might find it painful which choices are made when it comes to raising children.  However, as kmarion has tried to death to say, if no laws are broken - stfu.  I think white supremacists and any number of other groups or lifestyles I won't enumerate here should be lined up and shot, not to mention never EVER permitted to breed.  However, that's just my opinion and certainly nothing I would want implemented at a state or federal level.  Seriously - raise your children as you see fit within legal boundaries - and no, that does NOT MEAN that you should go about erecting moral and personal opinions as legal definitions to satisfy your personal agenda.

EDIT: typo

Last edited by PuckMercury (2008-04-24 11:07:15)

2008-04-24 11:58:35
Kmar
Truth is my Bitch
+5,695|6592|132 and Bush

B.Schuss wrote:

Kmarion wrote:

Turquoise wrote:

There comes a point where social services should get involved.  To me, this cultish behavior on the part of the FLDS is basically child abuse.

Normally, I err on the side of freedom, but I don't when it comes to religion and cults.
Isn't it obvious that I agree? Damn, am I speaking a different language tonight? If their is physical abuse, rape, molestation..etc... then fucking hell yea the state should get involved.
so you're against rape, physical abuse, and molestation, but you would be ok with religious fundamentalists living in colonies isolated from the "real" world, and raising their children in some kind of middle age environment ?

I realize that every parent has an influence on his/her child, but come on. Shouldn't parents at least try to raise their children in an environment that resembles reality, and not some fundamentalist theme park ? I mean, maybe I am exaggerating here, but from my point of view, the way these children are raised will make it impossible for them to even make a choice about wether they want to live like that or not.

If that's your definition of "freedom", then I don't want it, sorry.
As opposed to your definition of freedom which includes telling people where they can't live and having a state (and often self serving) government administer parenting skills. Dangerous road you choose to follow. It is rather naive to turn on the TV and pretend you know enough about the situation to challenge a parents right to raise their children.
Xbone Stormsurgezz
2008-04-24 12:03:37
SenorToenails
Veritas et Scientia
+444|6121|North Tonawanda, NY

Kmarion wrote:

As opposed to your definition of freedom which includes telling people where they can't live and having a state (and often self serving) government administer parenting skills. Dangerous road you choose to follow. It rather naive to turn on the TV and pretend you know enough about the situation to challenge a parents right to raise their children.
Seriously, B.Schuss--Freedom does not mean 'free to do only what I agree with'.

Last edited by SenorToenails (2008-04-24 12:04:11)

2008-04-24 12:12:31
FallenMorgan
Member
+53|5905|Glendale, CA
Women there are treated like breeding stock.  There ARE allegations of rape, molestation, AND statutory rape.  What their doing goes beyond religious freedom.  A 13 or 14 year old girl will be forced to marry a 40 year old man and have 10 kids, and by the time she's 25, she's stuck in hell.  Explain to me how they have the freedom to deny the freedom and civil rights of thousands of women.

 

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