BF2S Forums Flag burning

Why is the top drifted to, Americans burning American flags, from anyone burning anyones flag?

For everyone who is saying "I accept it because it's a form of free speech... blah blah blah". What about flag burning in countries without the US constitution.

And for lowing, how differently would you react if it was a Muslim Flag being burnt?

DrunkFace wrote:

Why is the top drifted to, Americans burning American flags, from anyone burning anyones flag?

For everyone who is saying "I accept it because it's a form of free speech... blah blah blah". What about flag burning in countries without the US constitution.

I think that's due to a couple reasons.  I would say the largest reason is that this seems to be centered around domestic flag burning and that itself may or may not have been the intent of the OP.  People tend to speak from their perspective - it's a built in ecocentricism unfortunately.  Also, if the country whose flag is being burned has no provisions for free speech, free expression, etc the premise is rather moot.

S.Lythberg wrote:

I do not support burning any country's flag for any reason.  Hundreds of thousands of better men than you have died to keep that flag flying, to burn it is to show disrespect for them and their actions.  (and yes, this applies to any flag, be it that of the US or that of Saudi Arabia/China/USSR/North Korea/any other nation we love or love to hate)

Do you not support it as in you would never choose to engage in it, or do you think it should be actively banned?  I would reinforce that I would never burn anyone's flag and for exactly the reasons you've stipulated.  I maintain, however, that it should be an expression people are free to partake in should they feel their message warrants such hypocracy (hypocracy in the case of American flag).  I think burning the flag of a nation that does not choose to represent or champion such liberties as freedom of expression is less of a contradiction ipso facto.

GorillaTicTacs wrote:

I think draping a flag over a coffin is disrespectful to the soldier.  A final "screw you" from Uncle Sam to the dear departed.  A way of saying "You were a useful piece of cannon fodder in life, now you'll make good patriotic imagery for us even in death.  When your loved ones hang that flag on the wall, they'll remember their sacrifice for the 'freedom' we lied about while we enriched our own friends at your kid's expense."

Or something like that...maybe I'm just playing devil's advocate...or maybe somewhere around carrying my 20th flag-draped coffin I got a little cynical.

I never felt that way when folding the flag myself, or during all my time presenting that flag to a grieving widow with the always famous words:

"Ma'am, on behalf of the President of the United States and a grateful nation, this flag is a token of appreciation of your loved ones honorable and faithful service to this country." (We are allowed some lattitude on how to phrase it, and that one was mine.)

When I am buried, I want the flag draped over my coffin.  It is a long-standing tradition.  Men have literally died to keep the colors from touching the ground in battle.  It, like the 21 gun salute, is one of the great tokens of respect a nation can give to a fallen warrior, and more importantly, as a show of respect to the fallen that the survivors can see and appreciate.  Because, in the end, a funeral is not for the dead, but for those of us left behind.

Is your attitude toward it directed more at the current administration and conflict, or is it more widespread?  Do you feel the same way at the burial of a WW2 veteran as to a fallen veteran of Iraq?

I spent 14 years in uniform.  8 of those were active duty.  I have participated in 18 military funerals; a couple of them for friends lost in Iraq.  Most of them were for veterens of previous wars that died of more mundane causes.

imortal wrote:

GorillaTicTacs wrote:

I think draping a flag over a coffin is disrespectful to the soldier.  A final "screw you" from Uncle Sam to the dear departed.  A way of saying "You were a useful piece of cannon fodder in life, now you'll make good patriotic imagery for us even in death.  When your loved ones hang that flag on the wall, they'll remember their sacrifice for the 'freedom' we lied about while we enriched our own friends at your kid's expense."

Or something like that...maybe I'm just playing devil's advocate...or maybe somewhere around carrying my 20th flag-draped coffin I got a little cynical.

I never felt that way when folding the flag myself, or during all my time presenting that flag to a grieving widow with the always famous words:

"Ma'am, on behalf of the President of the United States and a grateful nation, this flag is a token of appreciation of your loved ones honorable and faithful service to this country." (We are allowed some lattitude on how to phrase it, and that one was mine.)

When I am buried, I want the flag draped over my coffin.  It is a long-standing tradition.  Men have literally died to keep the colors from touching the ground in battle.  It, like the 21 gun salute, is one of the great tokens of respect a nation can give to a fallen warrior, and more importantly, as a show of respect to the fallen that the survivors can see and appreciate.  Because, in the end, a funeral is not for the dead, but for those of us left behind.

Is your attitude toward it directed more at the current administration and conflict, or is it more widespread?  Do you feel the same way at the burial of a WW2 veteran as to a fallen veteran of Iraq?

I spent 14 years in uniform.  8 of those were active duty.  I have participated in 18 military funerals; a couple of them for friends lost in Iraq.  Most of them were for veterens of previous wars that died of more mundane causes.

Its directed more at the insanity of it all.  Honestly, I didn't do the military funeral thing.  I just got to do transfers at Rammstein so they could get to the States on different planes...still requires a big ceremony though for something so simple.

A few causes were good, promoted democracy, or cleansed the world of some great evil.  Most American military actions did no such thing.  They enriched the few, they cost needless lives of young people, and they allowed corrupt politicians to stay in power and distracted from domestic issues.  So what did these men die for?  The cause of liberty was shot to hell when the US wouldn't allow election results to stand in Iraq.  We aren't there to build a "free and independant" nation, we're there to build a nation friendly to our oil and military interests regardless of what their government is.  We're there in an occupation, concocted by a war made from a series of intentional lies, making blatant friends of the Bush regime rich in the process. 

Anyone that happily accepts their kid died for that isn't paying attention, saying he/she "died for his country" in this case especially, is blatant denial.  A sweet lie they tell themselves because in this situation, the death of your child/husband/father, the truth would be devastating.  Denial is powerful, it makes you quite blind.