BF2S Forums Legalize Marijuanna, save the United States and the World

Kmarion wrote:

I wouldn't say they are doing extraordinary.. http://qc.finance.yahoo.com/q/bc?s=CXW&t=my

You actually peaked my interest.. I'm banking on you ATG, cmon.

Wow.

I just looked at that graph. The Bush years been good for private prisons.
Every time I turn around there is something else about that guy...

Kmarion wrote:

ATG wrote:

Kmarion wrote:

I wouldn't say they are doing extraordinary.. http://qc.finance.yahoo.com/q/bc?s=CXW&t=my

You actually peaked my interest.. I'm banking on you ATG, cmon.

Wow.

I just looked at that graph. The Bush years been good for private prisons.
Every time I turn around there is something else about that guy...

That's actually under performance for the market on the whole. You can clearly see thewas after the attacks.
This is the DOW http://finance.yahoo.com/q/bc?s=%5EDJI&t=my . So like I said nothing special.

I'll be and sure to tell those upside down on their mortgage, behind on credit cards, delinquent in property taxes, laid off and in foreclosure that the DOW is just fine.

Kmarion wrote:

ATG wrote:

Kmarion wrote:

That's actually under performance for the market on the whole. You can clearly see thewas after the attacks.
This is the DOW http://finance.yahoo.com/q/bc?s=%5EDJI&t=my . So like I said nothing special.

I'll be and sure to tell those upside down on their mortgage, behind on credit cards, delinquent in property taxes, laid off and in foreclosure that the DOW is just fine.http://i16.tinypic.com/2pra7ew.gif

Very few people are upside down (at least those who have been in there home for over five years). It also takes two people to sign a contract. Hate the banks if it makes you feel better, but they weren't doing anything illegal. Personal responsibility has been stripped out of this country. You'll get no sympathy from me for the people who are behind on their credit cards. The majority of the time it's not necessity but luxury that prompts people to live on credit. Yea it may get tougher... but for the most part the wound is self inflicted.

I'm not asking the government to solve my problems, it is amazing that so many that so many are clamoring for the government to begin rewriting mortgage contracts.  But...
There is plenty of evidence that some private lenders were breaking the law in California. Watch. The news is trickling out.

http://www.biggerpockets.com/renewsblog … rry-brown/

I don't understand how it can be the consumers fault that median family incomes got so far out of whack with median home prices.

It's not people struggling with their payments flipping houses and buying rentals so much as it's wealthy individual and property management companies that screwed over people by inflating the market along with greedy mortgage brokers and real estate agents and appraisers doing anything they had to do to get the papers pushed through. And the banks collecting interest, and the state raising property taxes on each wave of buyers. Crooks. All of them.

Inflate the market, sign loans with stated income, repossess the properties, start over, screwing generations...

cleptocracy, and it fucking sucks.
It sucks how the perception is that average joes make errors when they are presented no real options. Just like the upcoming elections.

Last edited by ATG (2008-04-14 00:20:12)

o.k my 2 cents worth

People have been bandying around 'the gateway effect' but from what I can see not a lot of thought has been put in to what it actually is in a 'sociological' aspect..

Do you not think that people might move on to harder drugs because they're available from the same place most of the time.. i.e chances the guy you get your bit of smoke from also happens to have or knows some one who can get speed xtc acid etc..

So surely If you legalize then you are removing the immediate connection that provides the gateway to these more harmful drugs. How often have you all been to the supermarket to pick up some general shopping and then decided to get a bottle of wine or some beers because they're on special..

I know where I would prefer to go to pick my gear up - some ones house where there is a people coming and going all day and night (asking for trouble as it stands at the moment) OR a shop/coffee bar where you can go in choose from a selection that suites your needs (i.e mild to strong) and you know that the quality/ weight  is assured - you are contributing something back into the economy through taxes.
You then hopefully don't need to worry about legal repercussions affecting your social/professional life for what you do in your spare time.

Yes smoking can have a detrimental effect on people but it's a sweeping generalisation to say that every one who smokes is an unmotivated un focused waster. As long as you know that there is a time and a place for it then there's no reason why you shouldn't enjoy it if that's your thing.
I personally think that it's pretty hypocritical to say its ok to go out and get drunk but not ok to get high. (by the way the study on airline pilots - what do you reckon the results would have been if they'd drunk a bottle of vodka the night before then tried to land the plane with the same accuracy..)

I honestly believe that weed is a LOT less harmful than alcohol (just look at the statistics for emergency admissions that are alcohol related especially on a fri/sat night). I mean how often do you see caned people picking fights with strangers because they dont like the way a person is looking at them etc..but that happens on a huge scale with alcohol every single night!

The key is to take away the control of the sale of mary jane from people that just make an easy buck from it and put it under a controlled environment where it can be sold and consumed responsibly and yes educate people about the risks involved but please dont just base your opinion on outdated stereotypes of what the effects are.

See link below for a film that was produced in the 1930's about the dangers of smoking weed.. (and no it wasn't meant to be a comedy!)


http://www.tv-links.cc/movie/reefer-madness.htm

Also quote from wiki on the history of laws about smoking weed below

DuPont, William Randolph Hearst and hemp

The decision of the United States Congress to pass the 1937 Marijuana Tax Act was based on hearings[2], reports[19] and in part on testimony derived from articles in newspapers owned by William Randolph Hearst, who had significant financial interests in the timber industry, which manufactured his newsprint.[20]

Marijuana activtist Jack Herer has researched DuPont and in his 1985 book The Emperor Wears No Clothes, Herer concluded Dupont played a large role in the criminalization of cannabis. In 1938, DuPont patented the processes for creating plastics from coal and oil and a new process for creating paper from wood pulp. If hemp would have been largely exploited, Herer believes it would have likely been used to make paper and plastic (nylon) , and may have hurt DuPont’s profits. Andrew Mellon of the Mellon Bank was DuPont's chief financial backer and was also the Secretary of Treasury under the Hoover administration. Mellon appointed Harry J. Anslinger, who later became his nephew-in-law, as the head of the Bureau of Narcotics and Dangerous Drugs (FBNDD) and the Federal Bureau of Narcotics (FBN), where Mellon stayed until 1962.[21]

In 1916, United States Department of Agriculture (USDA) chief scientists Jason L. Merrill and Lyster H. Dewe created paper made from hemp pulp, which they concluded was "favorable in comparison with those used with pulp wood in USDA Bulletin No. 404."[22] Jack Herer, in the book "The Emperor Wears No Clothes" summarized the findings of Bulletin No. 404:[23]

    USDA Bulletin No. 404, reported that one acre of hemp, in annual rotation over a 20-year period, would produce as much pulp for paper as 4.1 acres of trees being cut down over the same 20-year period. This process would use only 1/4 to 1/7 as much polluting sulfur-based acid chemicals to break down the glue-like lignin that binds the fibers of the pulp, or even none at all using soda ash. The problem of dioxin contamination of rivers is avoided in the hemp paper making process, which does not need to use chlorine bleach (as the wood pulp paper making process requires) but instead safely substitutes hydrogen peroxide in the bleaching process. ... If the new (1916) hemp pulp paper process were legal today, it would soon replace about 70% of all wood pulp paper, including computer printout paper, corrugated boxes and paper bags.

Hemp was a relatively easy target because factories already had made large investments in equipment to handle cotton, wool, and linen, but there were relatively small investments in hemp production. Big technological improvements in the wood pulp industry was invented in the 1930s, for example the recovery boiler, and other improvements came later. So, there is a niche market for hemp paper, but the cost of hemp pulp is approximately six times that of wood pulp,[24] There was also a misconception hemp had an intoxicating effect because it has the same active substance, THC, which is in potent marijuana strains; however, hemp only has minimal amount of THC when compared to recreational marijuana strains.

An alternative explanation for Anslingers opinion's about hemp is that he believed that a tax on marijuana could be easier to supervise if it included hemp and that he had reports from experiments with mechanical harvesting of hemp reporting that the machines was no success and reports about marijuana farms[25]

    "The existence of the old 1934-1935 crop of harvested hemp on the fields of southern Minnesota is a menace to society in that it is being used by traffickers in marihuana as a source of supply "[26]

    "they were able to cut only a part of the Tribune Farm crop by machine, two thirds of it they did by hand with a sharp hand cuttertuff".[27]

Argument for the alternative theory is that hemp was not an alternative as raw material in the new commercial products from DuPont, the nylon-bristled toothbrush (1938) followed more famously by women's “nylons” stockings (1940). Nylon was intended to be a synthetic replacement for silk not hemp.

Also you're interested in more facts then you might want to do a bit of research on the socialogical reasons for the prohabition of it as well...( could it be that there was a 'slightly' discriminatory view on the ethnic groups that were smoking origionally )

*edit

Also just one more thing, one of the first  things that came up in google for productivity losses from the consumtion of alchohol..

http://www.personneltoday.com/articles/ … ivity.html

Last edited by sinnik (2008-04-14 08:00:46)

Illegalize marihuana (and prostitution), save Holland and Europe!

ATG wrote:

I don't understand how it can be the consumers fault that median family incomes got so far out of whack with median home prices.

It's not people struggling with their payments flipping houses and buying rentals so much as it's wealthy individual and property management companies that screwed over people by inflating the market along with greedy mortgage brokers and real estate agents and appraisers doing anything they had to do to get the papers pushed through.

That is no true. Most Realtors survive solely on the basis of referrals and good service. We want to be your Realtor for life. The duty to serve clients goes beyon ethical, it's also the long term financial impact we must be aware of. We can advise them, but beyond that we are not personal financial planners. When buyers tell us they are determined to buy a house and they want us to work the best deal for that particular house we must abide by their wishes. Banks are also screwed over when people purchase homes and only make two payments before default. Again you are stripping the basic financial responsibility out of the consumer. If there were bankers offering them credit beyond their limitations they should have had the common sense to plan for financial struggles as well. Ultimately buyers were unwilling to listen. They chose the homes that were 1000 sqft more than what they could afford..etc. Your looking for a scapegoat to cover lack of common sense.

And the banks collecting interest,

That is how they make money and stay in business?

and the state raising property taxes on each wave of buyers.

It's usually voted on. Mine just went down. http://www.yeson1florida.com/

Crooks. All of them.http://i1.tinypic.com/6oy3f2s.gif

If that is what helps you sleep at night... if not spark it up I guess.

Inflate the market, sign loans with stated income, repossess the properties, start over, screwing generations...

The banks don't want your property. They would much rather you pay them intrest for 30 years rather than take control of your house. If you want to see the absurdity of your statement calculate the total interest paid on a 30 year loan against a house that has lost it's value over the last five years.

cleptocracy, and it fucking sucks.
It sucks how the perception is that average joes make errors when they are presented no real options. Just like the upcoming elections.

I'm sure blaming "the establishment" makes you popular amidst the steady beats coming from the drum circles. However here among the other average Joes we look at all sides of the issue.

Kmarion wrote:

and the state raising property taxes on each wave of buyers.

It's usually voted on. Mine just went down. http://www.yeson1florida.com/

Oh Florida drives me nuts.  You guys don't have property tax, you have a "fine" for property.  I get hit for a $8,000 prop tax bill here in Texas on a $400k house value, then I go on vacation to Destin.  Across from the condo we rented is a $2.2M home for sale showing $1,200 in prop tax.  Prop tax in Texas funds the city tax rolls, and I'm thinking that most likely Destin's tax rolls are funded by dumbass tourists like me.  Ya'll are lucky.

Last edited by Pug (2008-04-14 16:29:35)

Turquoise wrote:

Kmarion wrote:

Very few people are upside down (at least those who have been in there home for over five years). It also takes two people to sign a contract. Hate the banks if it makes you feel better, but they weren't doing anything illegal. Personal responsibility has been stripped out of this country. You'll get no sympathy from me for the people who are behind on their credit cards. Usually it's not necessity but luxury that prompts people to live on credit. Yea it may get tougher... but for the most part the wound is self inflicted.

To a degree, I agree with you.  On the other hand, I think laws should be changed to hold banks more liable for the risks they take in lending to more financially unstable people.

By the same token, I'm against bailouts for both corporations and individuals.  Of course, given the present situation, we only bail out corporations.  That's the American Way for ya....

There are a bunch of starving unemployed Mortgage Brokers right now. They are paying for their bad decisions. Consequence is one way to hold people responsible.

When the government gets involved in these things we complain about corruption and questionable ties to corporations. They very rarely ever fix anything.

Kmarion wrote:

Pug wrote:

Kmarion wrote:

It's usually voted on. Mine just went down. http://www.yeson1florida.com/

Oh Florida drives me nuts.  You guys don't have property tax, you have a "fine" for property.  I get hit for a $8,000 prop tax bill here in Texas on a $400k house value, then I go on vacation to Destin.  Across from the condo we rented is a $2.2M home for sale showing $1,200 in prop tax.  Prop tax in Texas funds the city tax rolls, and I'm thinking that most likely Destin's tax rolls are funded by dumbass tourists like me.  Ya'll are lucky.

A 400k home in my county pays from $8,640.00 To $9,600.00.
http://www.hcpafl.org/www/search/tax_estimator.shtml

I retract than then.  Must be Destin then.

Turquoise wrote:

Kmarion wrote:

Turquoise wrote:

To a degree, I agree with you.  On the other hand, I think laws should be changed to hold banks more liable for the risks they take in lending to more financially unstable people.

By the same token, I'm against bailouts for both corporations and individuals.  Of course, given the present situation, we only bail out corporations.  That's the American Way for ya....

There are a bunch of starving unemployed Mortgage Brokers right now. They are paying for their bad decisions. Consequence is one way to hold people responsible.

When the government gets involved in these things we complain about corruption and questionable ties to corporations. They very rarely ever fix anything.

Well, I would guess JP Morgan Chase is doing well, since the government chose to foot the debt involved with Bear Stearns.  As if the Iraq War wasn't enough of an insult to taxpayers, this shit happens next....

That's why I say keep the Gov out.

Turquoise wrote:

Kmarion wrote:

Turquoise wrote:

Well, I would guess JP Morgan Chase is doing well, since the government chose to foot the debt involved with Bear Stearns.  As if the Iraq War wasn't enough of an insult to taxpayers, this shit happens next....

That's why I say keep the Gov out.

We can at least agree that government should stay out of it in terms of bailouts...   Of course, that's not going to happen.

Hell ya we can..lol. JP Morgan just made a bid. It's the gov that prompted that... not really something to hold JP Morgan at fault for (That's what they do).