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Poll

Will Islam Take Over Europe?

Yes27%27% - 26
No72%72% - 70
Total: 96
2008-04-08 05:35:25
Braddock
Agitator
+916|6297|Éire

B.Schuss wrote:

I voted no. The size of the muslim community in europe is simply not significant enough to grant them enough voting power to change our societies through the democratic process. Let alone the fact that of the muslims living here, only a small ( ridiculously small ) minority is actually politically active.

They don't even have a political party to represent them. And I am not so sure they would want to change anything, even if they could. Most of them enjoy the secular life they can live here in europe, free to practise their religion as they see fit. None of the muslims I know would want to have scharia law in europe.

Also, europeans have fought too hard and suffered too much in the past to allow anyone to take away the accomplishments of liberalism, and democracy. The idea that we would allow muslims to do so is absurd, mildly put...

It is true that we are facing big challenges with regard to integration. It is also true that for too long, we have allowed the immigrants to live next to us without really getting to know them ( or wanting to do so ), and that we have allowed them to form parallel societies, knowingly or unknowingly. These are issues that need to be addressed, undoubtedly.
But we are not going to address them through isolation, or confrontation. These people don't present a threat, they present opportunities.
They are our fellow europeans, plainly put.

Certainly, the process of integration willl prove to be difficult. In some areas, compromises will have to be made.
But I am confident that we can achieve that without changing our legal system, or laws, or constitutions. Because that would be a compromise that I would be unwilling to make. And I don't think it has happened yet, or will happen at all.

Our identity is formed by our values, and the laws of the land. And those remain unchanged.
Excellent post, i defy any of the yes voters to argue with the common sense points made here.

1. Muslims are a huge minority in terms of population.
2. Muslims have little or no significant political representation in terms of actual parties.
3. There is a lack of desire among European Muslims to even have Sharia law.
3. Effective integration is the key as opposed to appeasement or witch-hunting.
4. Europeans simply would not accept the surrender of their Western way of life.

Last edited by Braddock (2008-04-08 05:39:14)

2008-04-08 05:45:19
fadedsteve
GOP Sympathizer
+266|6498|Menlo Park, CA
The Euros are laying down for Islam just like Jenna Jamison spread her legs for porno's!!

Untill Jenna decided to retire and not capitulate to the industry did her career stop! Same goes for Europe, until they stop capitulating to the Muslims, the immigration will continue and the attacks/threats will undoubtedly double!
2008-04-08 05:47:41
Little BaBy JESUS
m8
+394|6156|'straya

FatherTed wrote:

Braddock wrote:

usmarine wrote:

well if everyone agreed, it wouldn't be a debate section would it?  Someone has to be the opposition.  Now sip another guinness and think about it.
You're just bitter because Americans can't drink! Have a lager shandy and think about that!
tru dat.

I met some Americans in France last summer, and they were like my age.

Couldn't drink for shite the poor bastards, bless em.
I can only respect Ireland and Scotland when it comes to drinking... no other country comes close to Australia

OT: No they wont take over... every generation/ every continent has its little phobia about being taken over every now and then... i mean if u beleived all that shit, hispanics would be the majority in ameria, muslims the majority in europe and asians the majority in australia.... i mean please this is all just bull shit... theres no way that europe (especially western europe) would become muslim... and appeasement isnt going to do it... there comes a point where u cant bend over backwards anymore... i dont think ur average person in germany, france, britan is gonna just let islam take over...
2008-04-08 05:49:02
Mekstizzle
WALKER
+3,611|6628|London, England
I reckon the U.S is much more segregated than Europe. Take a look at your own back yard before you say that Europeans alienate from each other. We don't really have anything as close to your fucked up gigantic Black and Latino Ghetto's and shit...
2008-04-08 05:51:49
B.Schuss
I'm back, baby... ( sort of )
+664|6848|Cologne, Germany

fadedsteve wrote:

The Euros are laying down for Islam just like Jenna Jamison spread her legs for porno's!!

Untill Jenna decided to retire and not capitulate to the industry did her career stop! Same goes for Europe, until they stop capitulating to the Muslims, the immigration will continue and the attacks/threats will undoubtedly double!
for someone who cites Ronald Reagan in his sig, you seem to have a little too much porn in your argumentation.

seriously, this must be the first time someone I considered mentally sane has compared the immigration issue to Jenna Jamison.
2008-04-08 05:55:59
apollo_fi
The Flying Kalakukko.
+94|6538|The lunar module

B.Schuss wrote:

These people don't present a threat, they present opportunities.
They are our fellow europeans, plainly put.
Hear, hear.
2008-04-08 06:03:18
Braddock
Agitator
+916|6297|Éire

fadedsteve wrote:

The Euros are laying down for Islam just like Jenna Jamison spread her legs for porno's!!

Untill Jenna decided to retire and not capitulate to the industry did her career stop! Same goes for Europe, until they stop capitulating to the Muslims, the immigration will continue and the attacks/threats will undoubtedly double!
This coming from someone who's country takes it up the ass from the Jewish lobby.
2008-04-08 06:04:42
fadedsteve
GOP Sympathizer
+266|6498|Menlo Park, CA

B.Schuss wrote:

fadedsteve wrote:

The Euros are laying down for Islam just like Jenna Jamison spread her legs for porno's!!

Untill Jenna decided to retire and not capitulate to the industry did her career stop! Same goes for Europe, until they stop capitulating to the Muslims, the immigration will continue and the attacks/threats will undoubtedly double!
for someone who cites Ronald Reagan in his sig, you seem to have a little too much porn in your argumentation.

seriously, this must be the first time someone I considered mentally sane has compared the immigration issue to Jenna Jamison.
LOL! my post was meant as a sarcasm!

But its kinda true in the same respect. . . . wait. . . . no its not! lol

And yes Braddock we do spread our legs for the jews for some reason!! I dont get it either

Last edited by fadedsteve (2008-04-08 06:05:27)

2008-04-08 06:07:23
Mekstizzle
WALKER
+3,611|6628|London, England
And yes Braddock we do spread our legs for the jews for some reason!! I dont get it either
Because you morons think Jews are God's chosen people, and Jews are smart people who will exploit this.
2008-04-08 06:15:02
fadedsteve
GOP Sympathizer
+266|6498|Menlo Park, CA

Mek-Izzle wrote:

And yes Braddock we do spread our legs for the jews for some reason!! I dont get it either
Because you morons think Jews are God's chosen people, and Jews are smart people who will exploit this.
I dont think they are the chosen people at all! You want to talk about sterotypes. . . . I find them quite pedantic, arrogant, and cheap! All from personal experience with friends/non-friends. 

The smart folks are the Chinese! They are playing the rest of the world like their own personal harp!

Last edited by fadedsteve (2008-04-08 06:15:19)

2008-04-08 09:42:06
loubot
O' HAL naw!
+470|6585|Columbus, OH
  • First banned weapons
  • Second McDonalds
  • Euro-Disney
  • Madonna
  • Next Islam

Man you guys are screwed

Last edited by loubot (2008-04-08 09:42:22)

2008-04-08 12:34:42
lowing
Banned
+1,662|6659|USA

Braddock wrote:

lowing wrote:

Braddock wrote:


Did we give up our monetary identity? That's funny because there are Irish harps on the back of the Euros in my pocket. Our borders aren't becoming too blurry just yet lowing, they're only blurry if you are European and have an EU passport...something the Afghani guy on the bus between Germany and Poland found out when he was hauled off and taken away during my flatmate's recent visit! You do realise Berlin has a population of nearly three and a half million don't you? When I was in Berlin there were still plenty of good, clean Aryan types, don't worry. You seem to totally negate the idea that ANY integration whatsoever takes place within the Muslim community; by the time Muslims here can actually vote in our countries a certain amount of integration has already taken place (you don't get given a vote as soon as you get off the boat).

Btw love the story about the Farsi driving exams, let me know when that one goes to court.
The Irish harp is on the back of your EURO ....THAT is the point.
I don't mind having Euro's instead of punts lowing, it makes economic sense and it is sure is handy when I'm touring around the beautiful continent that is Europe

lowing wrote:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2005/02/27/wturk27.xml

"Asked by teachers what they thought of the murder, several 13-year-old pupils are said to have implied that they thought Mrs Sürücü had "earned" her death. "Well, she lived like a German, didn't she?" remarked one. Mrs Sürücü got married in Turkey at the age of 15 but returned with her son to her birthplace, Berlin, more than five years ago."

Please read this article fully, it seems you are disagreed with by people in the real world. The point being, it isn't what you THINK integration means in a society that matters, it is the atitude of the immigrant that counts.
Congratulations lowing, you've finally posted a story worthy of speaking out against...took you long enough. Here you have presented an example of something that has no place in our society: honour killings. But the thing is (I don't know if you've ever been to Europe but go with me on this) the countries here have things called 'legal systems' and they deal with murders. I don't think you'll find any constitutional amendments legalising honour killings being passed any time soon.
Like I said, and you ignored. It is the attitude of the immigrants that count here, not yours. They feel no alliegence to Germany, if they did I assume they would become citizens, ( the majority that is)
2008-04-08 12:40:52
Bertster7
Confused Pothead
+1,101|6589|SE London

fadedsteve wrote:

The smart folks are the Chinese! They are playing the rest of the world like their own personal harp!
No. They're not.

China are fucked. They may manufacture a heck of a lot of stuff, but they don't produce anything themselves. The bulk of the profits of everything made in China doesn't go to the Chinese, it goes to the West, where the stuff they make is designed.

That's why China isn't a real economic threat.

It's all because Communism stifles innovation and enterprise. Without that the Chinese are doomed to simply be the factory for the rest of the worlds designs.
2008-04-08 12:43:03
usmarine
Banned
+2,785|6769

Bertster7 wrote:

fadedsteve wrote:

The smart folks are the Chinese! They are playing the rest of the world like their own personal harp!
No. They're not.

China are fucked. They may manufacture a heck of a lot of stuff, but they don't produce anything themselves. The bulk of the profits of everything made in China doesn't go to the Chinese, it goes to the West, where the stuff they make is designed.

That's why China isn't a real economic threat.

It's all because Communism stifles innovation and enterprise. Without that the Chinese are doomed to simply be the factory for the rest of the worlds designs.
That and they still use a shit ton of coal, yet are using 1970's technology for the workers.  No oversight either.
2008-04-08 13:36:54
JahManRed
wank
+646|6635|IRELAND

lowing wrote:

Like I said, and you ignored. It is the attitude of the immigrants that count here, not yours. They feel no alliegence to Germany, if they did I assume they would become citizens, ( the majority that is)
That's the nature of immigration. I would doubt your sitting in a Tepee typing this with feathers in your hair?
2008-04-08 13:48:08
lowing
Banned
+1,662|6659|USA

JahManRed wrote:

lowing wrote:

Like I said, and you ignored. It is the attitude of the immigrants that count here, not yours. They feel no alliegence to Germany, if they did I assume they would become citizens, ( the majority that is)
That's the nature of immigration. I would doubt your sitting in a Tepee typing this with feathers in your hair?
Yeah, unfortunately the issue is more contempory than playing cowboys and Indians.

But since you mentioned it, and want to use it as an example. I guess immigration can change the landscape of a continent after all. Since Indians are now on reservations and all and the Europeans took over the continent, becasue the Indians sat back an appeased the European settlers until it was far too late to do anything about it. Thanks for pointing that out. It helps the argument.

I
2008-04-08 13:49:03
Mekstizzle
WALKER
+3,611|6628|London, England
I want to see the results of this poll. I want to know how many non-Europeans there are voting yes. Just curious
2008-04-08 13:50:30
FatherTed
xD
+3,936|6507|so randum
OMG THERE'S A LOAD OF  TURBAN WEARING DARK SKINNED MEN OUTSIDE WITH AK47's AND RPGS!

SHIT SOMEONE CALL LOWING, HE WAS RIGHT ALL ALONG!

/shitjoke
Small hourglass island
Always raining and foggy
Use an umbrella
2008-04-08 13:56:05
Mekstizzle
WALKER
+3,611|6628|London, England
Most of the Muslims here aren't even the Turban wearing type, the Turban wearers here are Sikh, of course, I wouldn't expect Americans to know the difference. Yeah I generalise but so do you so stfu (no not you tedders!)

Last edited by Mek-Izzle (2008-04-08 13:56:28)

2008-04-08 19:18:54
lowing
Banned
+1,662|6659|USA

FatherTed wrote:

OMG THERE'S A LOAD OF  TURBAN WEARING DARK SKINNED MEN OUTSIDE WITH AK47's AND RPGS!

SHIT SOMEONE CALL LOWING, HE WAS RIGHT ALL ALONG!

/shitjoke
What was I right about? Please quote me.
2008-04-08 22:19:55
Turquoise
O Canada
+1,596|6412|North Carolina
If not Islam, some other group or combination of groups will eventually dominate Europe.  Most European nations (the more prosperous nations at least) have low "native" birth rates.  They depend heavily on immigration to support their aging out populations and to keep population growth going.

Over the next century, Europe will become more and more non-European in its population, and if current trends remain constant, then North Africans, Sub-Saharan Africans, Middle Easterners, and South Asians will be the most significant ethnic groups on the continent by about 2100.

I'm not necessarily saying this is a bad thing, but it is something to think about.  With changes in ethnicity, there often come changes in laws.
2008-04-08 22:23:50
ATG
Banned
+5,233|6536|Global Command
European will do like the Japanese.
2008-04-08 22:25:22
Turquoise
O Canada
+1,596|6412|North Carolina

ATG wrote:

European will do like the Japanese.
I was just thinking about that.  The difference is that Europe is nowhere near as xenophobic as Japan.  Japan is probably the second most xenophobic country in the world (next to North Korea).
2008-04-08 22:54:06
LividBovine
The Year of the Cow!
+175|6387|MN
I feel they have a good chance based on how they are doing it.  Look at most of the other countries that are in various states of an influx of Muslims. 



As the moderate population of Muslims are integrating into the society everything is fine.  As their numbers grow, a small number of extremist start to immigrate as well.  They eventually group together and start enforcing the Sharia laws on each others and on those "moderate" Muslims around them. 

You will say that the Moderates will not stand for this.  Show me where they have stood up against this elsewhere. 

They are too affraid of the extremist. 

Eventually you have a large poplulation of Muslims that are being lead by a smaller group that is [sarcasim]"Peacefull and Tolerant" [/sarcasim].  My fear is that by this time most of the population of Europe may be to affraid to do anything about it.  Even if they are not, the politicians may very well be.

Good luck with the whole ordeal.  I hope it does not happen, but if it does, at least the US may learn from it.

The next way for it to happen is that you guys just keep thinking that they want to keep things the way are.  Eventually they are accepted enough to get someone elected to a very high position.  All this will take time, but continual appeasment may work for them as well.

All Islam wants to do is take over your world.  How bad can it be?
"The President does not have power under the Constitution to unilaterally authorize a military attack in a situation that does not involve stopping an actual or imminent threat to the nation" - Barack Obama (a freshman senator from Illinios)
2008-04-09 00:01:06
B.Schuss
I'm back, baby... ( sort of )
+664|6848|Cologne, Germany

Turquoise wrote:

If not Islam, some other group or combination of groups will eventually dominate Europe.  Most European nations (the more prosperous nations at least) have low "native" birth rates.  They depend heavily on immigration to support their aging out populations and to keep population growth going.

Over the next century, Europe will become more and more non-European in its population, and if current trends remain constant, then North Africans, Sub-Saharan Africans, Middle Easterners, and South Asians will be the most significant ethnic groups on the continent by about 2100.

I'm not necessarily saying this is a bad thing, but it is something to think about.  With changes in ethnicity, there often come changes in laws.
I agree to some degree. But those kind of migration movements are a natural occurence. Sure those have the potential  to change the face of the continent forever, but hey, that's life. I mean, europe today isn't what it was in 1800 either.

Those demographic changes are part of evolution, if you will. Impossible to control. As you said, if we didn't have immigration, we could not keep our economy and growth on the level that we need. And the same is true for the rest of the western world, including the US.
If birth rates are low, immigration is what keeps the economy going.

It is also to be expected that those who come to europe to work here, bring their culture with them, and have some impact on our culture, if we want it or not.

But as I said, as long as we keep our core values intact ( you know, rule of law, freedom, democracy, and all of that ) I don't think we have much to worry about. The sad part for me is that I won't be able to see how all of this plays out. I don't expect to still be alive in 2100....

 

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