General_Anabolic
Member
+0|6791|Washington, USA
Actually I dont mind the AA too much.  I still routinely get 30-1 KD ratios with the jets.  The only problem I really have is the air to air missles of the jets.  Too powerful, a no talent piolet can easily kill someone with 10x the skill by just getting behind them and firing away.  The patch also heavily favors the J-10 and its unrealistic ability to turn on a dime and fly faster.

In fact now I dont have to worry about idiots TKing me for a jet like always used to happen.  A rocket or sniper hitting you when you jump in is extremely annoying.  Also jets are much easier to get without half the team waiting for one.
chitlin
Banned
+36|6784
when i speak of overpowered aa its from a helo pilots perspective, and its the helo who got fucked over royally in this patch. its seems pretty apparent that they made the aa good enough to hit the planes at mach whatever hitting the afterburners forgeting that the helo cant move quite that fast and this perfect skill not required aa will tear it to shit.

bear in mind im not the plane in the air not giving a flying shit *pun* about the guys on the ground. im the helo keeping thier tank/apc off your ass helping you cap flags and generally in alot more in danger than the plane who just flys around only caring about himself.
chitlin
Banned
+36|6784
oh heres me how do you see the day to day instead of totals on this site?

http://www.tomaplomo.com/bf2/stats.php? … &am=on
B.Schuss
I'm back, baby... ( sort of )
+664|6863|Cologne, Germany

Tyferra wrote:

ComradeWho, I like your writing. You have a real style dude. That was an enjoyable read, but try paragraphing it next time - makes it a bit easier for everyone involved. Don't listen to airbourne, he's obviously not used to reading anything aimed above the 5-10 age group. The grammar was fine, punctuation maybe needs a little work.

First off, the AA was weakned.  It dosn't pack the punch it used to. It's lock however is the major change. In the old patch, I used to shoot aircraft with small arms, because I knew that in the long run, they'd have more effect. You prayed for an unexplainable ping surge to rid you of pilots who just had no way, besides crashing, of coming down.

Easier for less experianced players? No, see you're seeing it from a different perspective. Another perspective is this: it is now harder to fly and be effective. And besides, the AA isn't perfect, in my opinion it works just as it's supposed to. A lock on an aircraft, when coupled by firing a missile gives you about an 80% chance of hitting. That's one missile. Now couple with this the fact that it takes a minimum of three missiles to take down a plane. Adding to that, you have to be locked on to a pilot who will not try to avoid the missiles, the pilot must not go back to the airfield/carrier to repair, and more importantly, the person on the AA must not die. Taken all into account, AA takes a mixture of skill, luck and timing, as do most things.

Before however, the AA was meerly decorative. Most soldiers simply looked for cover every time a jet or chopper came near. Now it actually works. You can hit an enemy aircraft, as it should be! Now there is a way to counter air superority, which is fair enough because there sure as Hell wasn't any before.

Being able to fly does not mean your skilled. Look at me, I can barely fly a paper dart, yet with or without AA, I can 'own' in my own way. No one likes being shot down, which is why so many jet pilots were upset by the changes to AA. yes, it has made your jobs that but harder, but honestly, it wasn't that hard to begin with. All you used to need to know was how to achieve level flight and know when to release the bombs. Now, we'll see who the real pilots are. This new AA won't show us who the newbies are, they'll show us who the true aces really are.

See? As I said it's all a matter of perspective.
I second that.
With AA lock and air-to-air missile lock improved, it is now even more important to actually be a good pilot to avoid getting a lock on your plane in the first place. Also, missile damage seems reduced ( according to Tyferra ) which means even if you get hit by a missile you will in most cases be able to fly home for repairs.

As has been said before, most pilots I have heard from lately have stopped complaining about the patch now.
They have figured out tactics to either avoid AA or attack it before attacking anything else ( which btw is what real pilots would also do ).

there are some bugs in the 1.2 patch, but those are not related to gameplay issues. I bet no one at EA tested the missiles by shooting them into the oil towers. As soon as those bugs are fixed, the game should be fine.
I wonder though, if they are going to change something about the AA again, or simply give the choppers more hit points.
chitlin
Banned
+36|6784

Stratocaster wrote:

maybe you think I am not skilled with airplanes... well I don't give a shit, I hate all flight sims and I love driving tanks, I haven't even spent half an hour in a plane cuz I don't care being good at it.
I defend AA because it balances the game, this is a war game, not a flying game, and all skilled pilots owned everybody else, it was unfair, u gotta admit it. I am right, u are wrong. nuff said.
you should check your stats cuz you got 1 hour 18 minutes in planes =p. the bottom line is this new aa doesnt take skills and there should be no form in any game of "free kills". a dude posted here he got 17 kills with his monitor off which is halarious / sad  to me. oh and im bipolar ^^

like i said i didnt mean to shit all over you but ive seen the "i didnt care about my stats" thing enough times .. so you played and were like ill let you kill me cuz i dont care .. or the other dudes  "my little siter plays all the time and i dont care" =p.

and no i dont admit planes / helos unbalance the game.. they dictate alot of what happens of course. similar to real life a 40 million dollar jetfighter has a propensity to kill more than a footsoldier running around with a shotgun and thats how it should be .. unfair as it may be
Tetrino
International OMGWTFBBQ
+200|6752|Uhh... erm...
I'm with Tyf.
Mainwaring45
Member
+0|6673
THE best thing to come out of this patch is all the whiney posts by the flyboys who thought they were shit hot pilots when they had no real opposition and now find they were just a bunch of lame 'tards.  Really, it's very, very funny.  Please keep it coming.

I thank you.

Mainwaring
unnamednewbie13
Moderator
+2,053|6793|PNW

Stratocaster wrote:

Whatever... I think AA is perfect now... should EA/Dice retouch that in a next patch, I will stop playing BF2.

Ace pilots were masters of the sky, of the maps, of the universe. now things are balanced up. Oh you jetwhores can still have a nice k/d ratio if u know how to drop bombs properly and use the flares with instinct. But if a tank is easy to destroy, why should a plane be almost invincible?

1.2 is, in that way, perfect.
"Perfect" doesn't blatantly defy the laws of physics, scooter. Oh? OH! There's one of those righteous, emotional responses that this thread was created to mock in the first place. For the record, I have never had any problem taking down planes with any kind of AA prior to EA's "brilliant" tweak. World governments would pay dearly to have missiles that could hover in a three-foot radius circle, waiting for planes to pass, or that could suddenly fly backwards while ignoring all previous thrust and momentum. As it is, these things are now just a step under super high-speed Unreal AVRiLs.

I bet I could come onto this forum and say that 1.2 spammed "¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿'s" all up and down my screen, and I'd still be somehow flamed for being a jetwhore. And no, I'm not a whiny wannabe pilot who's angry because AA's shooting him down (that crap can still be avoided by coming in high and fast), but I find myself astounded that people are willing to completely ignore video proof of illegitimate and erratic AA activity that has been posted time and time again since 1.2's release. I hope to hell that they straighten out this loopy set of physics in 1.21, while retaining the fix vs the legitimate missile clipping bug that was present in 1.12.




Why, yes. I am currently multitasking nerd activities.

Last edited by unnamednewbie13 (2006-02-21 06:24:44)

Windowlickerza
Member
+0|6662
If anything the AA will force pilots to get better.  Like everybody else I get pissed off with continually being bombed so I love the new AA.  I was playing Wake the other night and kept shooting down the US jets - same pilot everytime.  After about 6 attempts he found a way of flying in a bombing the hell out of me without my rockets getting anywhere near him. 

I congratulated him on working it out and from then on I didn't stand a chance on the AA - well done that pilot for seeing the threat and finding a way to neutralise it.

This will weed out the whores and leave only the elite pilots who deserve to kill everyone who can't figure out a way of shooting them down.
Beatdown Patrol
Member
+1|6760

ComradeWho wrote:

Half of the people don't really care how ridiculous the AA is because half of the people are bitter about being killed by planes. All they have to offer in this discussion is an irrational emotional reaction. Anybody who dares question the justice and righteousness of the new AA can surely only be one of the demonic gamers who provoked the innocent's bitterness through flying planes in the first place, and any opinion voiced by these demons is slanted and invalid because they are mean-heads that just want to ruin the game for everyone! The bottom line is that the AA gives a chance for anybody at any time with any skill level to take solemn revenge against those demons who pour out unhappiness into the world like so many aerial bombs. How can the changes be wrong when they provide the worst players in the game a chance to enjoy vengeance against those players who constantly remind them of their inability to play properly by constantly killing them. Any attempt to weaken the AA, even if only slightly, would just be a trick - a vile trick perpetuated by the demons for the sole purpose of robbing the shitty players from more joyous vengeance. Anything that may result in a skilless player getting one less kill against a pilot is injustice, no matter how good the argument for such a change might be it is merely the demon's siren song luring our fragile minds into the depths of irrational debauchery. Thus we must ignore these claims and this so called "evidence" that the AA is full of bugs - it is merely an illusion, a spell cast down upon the interweb to trick the mind. Nevermind that it was crappy players who had the aa weakened to begin with in a previous patch when it was half the strength between 1.12 and 1.2. The important thing is that back then crappy players didn't like being shot down. The important thing is that at all times through all the patches the demand of the crappy players for the game to change in a way that they think might allow them a better chance to kill the more skilled players has been met by EA 100%, regardless of the so called "logic" that making the game easier in any way for unskilled and unpracticed players makes it much easier for the skilled and practiced ones.
LOL!  I can't stop laughing at the argument come pilots make that the AA allows any no-skilled noob to take down air when when for over 6 months, no-skilled pilots have been saturation bombing ground troops.  I really wish a pilot would define to me the actual skill it takes to fly to an area...drop a bomb on the ground where a UAV shows a lot of red dots, fly back to the carrier/air field, reload, repeat.

- Beatdown
dracul
Member
+2|6829
Too powerful, a no talent piolet can easily kill someone with 10x the skill by just getting behind them and firing away.
I hate to tell you this mister. If he can get behind and above you ( where flares are useless in both this game and in real life) then he *deserves* to kill you. If you let him get the jump on you.... he is better than you are.

Part of being a good pilot in a modern dogfight is preventing hostile interceptors from lining up in your "hot-spot".

If players are routinely finding it super-easy to get on your six, its probably because you are spending too much time looking for ground targets and not enough keeping your six clear. That means you suck.

It is still obscenely easy to get the #1 jet just be getting into the jet first at start of round. It just slightly less easy to *stay* alive, and you are almost certain to die at least once. As opposed to being able to go 60-0 carrier raping on certain maps.


The only difference now is that it is no longer possible to be able to completely ignore 90% of incoming anti-air if you can even do a gentle turn and roll. It is still entirely possible to avoid getting killed by aa.
-=THC_RU=-
Member
+0|6730

Beatdown Patrol wrote:

LOL!  I can't stop laughing at the argument come pilots make that the AA allows any no-skilled noob to take down air when when for over 6 months, no-skilled pilots have been saturation bombing ground troops.  I really wish a pilot would define to me the actual skill it takes to fly to an area...drop a bomb on the ground where a UAV shows a lot of red dots, fly back to the carrier/air field, reload, repeat.

- Beatdown
well from ur stats its obvious that u cant drop bombs to a UAV area with a lot of red dots, but u say it requires no skill, hmm, no skill required and u still cant do it? well of course lets sit in AA it aims and locks by it self, all i need to do is click click and boom easy points, while the pilot is trying to avoid those missiles and other planes as well.

Just try flying and see how it requires "no skill"

I don't mind the AA, thank you DICE for making the n00bs think that they have some power now, and for letting them be all happy saying shit like: " its pay back time". lol. before the patch i would shoot people out of stingers with my cannon gun, now I bomb those because there are usually 2+ people waiting for stingers to become free, so I kill more of enemy.
also good pilots are not just boorn into the game, they train to fly. Like I did, I went to free server to practice for a while, then played against comp, then started playing on unranked ands then ranked servers. How many of u went to practice shooting AAs? NONE!!! because all u can do is cry and cry.

well whatever, if u suck u will continue to suck whatever patch they make

The only problem is that planes are way to powerful against helos, helos need at least 2 AA missiles to fight the plane
908741059871059781
Sheep of War
+40|6664
The AA, Stinger, and air 2 air missles are as they should be. Ground defense needs to be able to take out jets and helis. The bottom line is people are crying because they can no longer go 50 and 0 in a jet or heli. Before there was nothing you could do. This levels the playing field for all kits and vehicles. It has nothing to do with skill. Skilled piolts still do well skilled helis still do well, and now for the first time AAs have the chance to do the same.
B.Schuss
I'm back, baby... ( sort of )
+664|6863|Cologne, Germany

908741059871059781 wrote:

The AA, Stinger, and air 2 air missles are as they should be. Ground defense needs to be able to take out jets and helis. The bottom line is people are crying because they can no longer go 50 and 0 in a jet or heli. Before there was nothing you could do. This levels the playing field for all kits and vehicles. It has nothing to do with skill. Skilled piolts still do well skilled helis still do well, and now for the first time AAs have the chance to do the same.
I agree. AA was basically useless pre-1.2. I mean why even put stingers in there when they can't hit anything ?

I will agree that jets / helis are at the top of the food chain in BF2, with armor in the middle and infantry at the bottom. I am fine with that. That's a realistic approach from a game design POV.

what I don't agree with though is that I as infantry should be given no useful means at all to fight air threats. Now I do...

It's actually quite funny that all the flyboys were flaming the ground pounders for whining before AA was changed, then whined themselves after it had been changed ( yes, I am generalizing, I know there are exceptions on both sides ).

I wonder how EA is going to address this in 1.21....
pndragon26
Member
+23|6708
I'm plane whorish (don't TK for them though) and fly a lot. Still rank high kills and low deaths. The patch is fine.  AA should be deadly, like posted earlier fly high and evade, just like in the "reality" everyone cries about. I will agree that Helos are in more danger, but tough, suck it up and pilot better. Use buildings and land to hide. Take out AA first, its your only threat, but no... you go for a tank kill first, go for the AA, then the tank. If your so unhappy, go play COD or CS, the strong point of this game is using all vehicles. Not just air, armor or infantry, but all of them.
I assume most of the fixes in the new new patch announced will be things along the line of SF and ATI problems. Not fixing AA so we go back to plane base rapes in every air heavy game.
And what  special "skill" was needed prior to the patch in regards to AA? Most are posting things that say, "any newbie can drop into AA now and take down good pilots"... so what.  If your flying low and around AA your taking a chance and should be shot down. But some are making it sound like they could kill with "SKILL" prior to the patch. Thats bull, you pointed, you clicked and you hoped. It makes it fair now. Even. And all the more sweet when you shred a manned AA site with guns.
Know where the sun is, and come down from high above. The patch works and is great, stop complaing.
Lucien
Fantasma Parastasie
+1,451|6674
I've said this so many times now:

Fix the GROUND AA bugs. Just the Bugs.
Make the Jet to Jet missles avoidable.

thanks.
https://i.imgur.com/HTmoH.jpg
warco3
Member
+1|6750|Orlando, FL
I had to cut and paste this from another thread since so many people seem to not understand:

Ok let's look at your so call "REAL" problem with AA. How much "skill" do you think it takes to hop on a stinger/mobile AA, point at an aircraft, wait for lock on, and shoot? Do you REALLY think it requires skill to do such a simple act? How complicated SHOULD it be? What the hell do you expect? It's POINT, LOCK ON, SHOOT. ANYONE CAN DO THAT. That's not the point of the matter you idiots! Any moron can hop in a tank and shoot at something. Just like any moron can pick AT and shoot his rocket at that moron in the tank. It never had anything to do with skill. Now being a smart pilot and going after AA and actually eliminating it, as well as watch his six and avoids getting shot down? Now THAT takes skill. Just as it takes skill to survive longer than a minute in a tank, using the grenade launcher, and killing people with C4. So for those of you saying the patch favors the talentless, you need to reevaluate your perspective.

I'm SICK and TIRED of hearing all the BS about AA being too accurate. I've launched 3 missles at a jet that already deployed his flares and they ALL MISSED. I've lost count of how many times I shot my missles at someone flying STRAIGHT and they MISS. Just two nights ago I wasted ALL my missles in Kubra Dam trying to shoot down someone with my Mig and he was in an F-18. AA is not flawless, people. Stop making excuses and get used to it, or stop playing. We're heard all the whining a million times already. WE AREN'T DICE/EA. We can't fix your "problem"!

Everything about that patch has been covered ten times over. We heard you. Enough is enough. Please move on! I swear there must be like 100 posts about this crap on these forums. Nothing you guys can say hasn't been covered already. So please give it a rest for goodness sake. When you think of something that HASN'T been covered, by all means post. I'm not saying you can't voice your opinion, but at least think of something original. Like the fact that you can still die from being caught between two vehicles or a vehicle and a wall, or under the wings of a jet. Something like that. When you stand out from the hundreds of AA threads, people will actually give a crap.

Instead of wasting your time complaining on these forums, go to the EA forums where someone will actually listen! Or better yet, POST IT ON THE COMPLAINT FORUMS WHERE THEY BELONG! The bugs will be addressed in the 1.21 hotfix anyway. So could we PLEASE start talking about something other than the stupid patch already?
Aenima_Eyes
Member
+20|6673
See. . .here is the flaw in the grounder pounder argument.  You people who aren't talented enough to learn how to fly a plane (or maybe too cheap to get a joystick) say that the patch made everything better.  That flyboys now can't just bomb at will and rack up huge scores.  Why?  Because you say that bombing a huge circle of red dots is ridiculously easy and that it was unfair to all the ground pounding fools that they kept getting blown up.

Well, my response is that you ground pounders needed to learn to stay out of the damn way.  If there are 20 people at a flag point then chances are somebody in a plane is gonna come drop a payload there.  Move somewhere else!  If you are driving that tank of yours and you see a plane coming. . .hop out and get into cover.  His box disappears making it harder to accurately drop on you.  You might not be able to see him coming so stick close to buildings and in cover so his bombing run won't be that easy.  Capping a flag?  Get inside a building instead of standing outside like a 'tard right by the flag pole.  There are PLENTY of ways to avoid being bombed if you're on the ground.  I ca't tell you how many times I spawned and got bombed by a plane. . .but guess what?  I decided that shit wasn't for me and I learned how to fly.  I also learned how to get my ass under some cover so I wouldn't get bombed. 

Why DICE/EA decides to punish the people with skill by making their lives harder I don't know.  They did such a good job catering to the people who are too stupid to fly, but they couldn't be bothered to make sure there weren't 40+ bugs associated with this patch.  Bleh.
Citizen One
한국 공주
+338|6670|South Korea.
ROFFELCAKES. sweet revenge. As far as I am concerned  they didnt do enough to shoot those pesky jet whores out the sky, I look forward to the introduction of the anti aircraft class, ah yes, aint no black hawk getting me now, thats right....I am THAT good.

https://juni0r.orcon.net.nz/stinger.jpg
In no way, am I finished with you, COME BACK HERE!
unnamednewbie13
Moderator
+2,053|6793|PNW

Beatdown Patrol wrote:

LOL!  I can't stop laughing at the argument come pilots make that the AA allows any no-skilled noob to take down air when when for over 6 months, no-skilled pilots have been saturation bombing ground troops. ...(etc.)
That's no excuse for a patch to transfer an imbalance from one end of the spectrum to the other, when they could have just as easily eliminated it to begin with. When will people get that many pilots aren't complaining about AA missiles because they can't fly straight over enemy territory anymore, but that the physics of AA is extremely faulty? Show me one case of "realism" where some guy with a stinger is able to orbit the projectile around a bonfire for several seconds, while it waits for a passing plane to lock onto? When has anybody seen a missile immediately reverse course without inertia tearing it apart? Have you ever seen a missile, in any video, aiming for each subsequent chaff particle (carving a zig-zagging path through them like a rabid pacman after untamed pellets) before slamming into a jet or chopper?

Oh, NO, but nobody thinks about that. Critics poke fun at the new AA, so therefore they are noob pilots with noob tactics who got what was coming to them for thinking they could be so 1337. Look, I have more time on the ground than in the air. I don't have ANY problem with having missile accuracy and the fix of the clipping bug (I've only gotten shot down once by the new AA, thanks to high-altitude manuevering), but I must laugh in derision when each projectile is capable of bending reality to reach its target.

Edit: Some areas underlined for the hard of reading.

Last edited by unnamednewbie13 (2006-02-21 10:19:06)

Aenima_Eyes
Member
+20|6673
Noob.
unnamednewbie13
Moderator
+2,053|6793|PNW

Aenima_Eyes wrote:

Noob.
Let's test that theory...or were you being facetious.
antin0de
Member
+44|6688|SL,UT

Aenima_Eyes wrote:

Noob.
Perfect way to end this stupid conversation.
VeNg3nCe^
¦Tactics Øver Principles¦
+314|6727|Antarctica

ComradeWho wrote:

Half of the people don't really care how ridiculous the AA is because half of the people are bitter about being killed by planes. All they have to offer in this discussion is an irrational emotional reaction. Anybody who dares question the justice and righteousness of the new AA can surely only be one of the demonic gamers who provoked the innocent's bitterness through flying planes in the first place, and any opinion voiced by these demons is slanted and invalid because they are mean-heads that just want to ruin the game for everyone! The bottom line is that the AA gives a chance for anybody at any time with any skill level to take solemn revenge against those demons who pour out unhappiness into the world like so many aerial bombs. How can the changes be wrong when they provide the worst players in the game a chance to enjoy vengeance against those players who constantly remind them of their inability to play properly by constantly killing them. Any attempt to weaken the AA, even if only slightly, would just be a trick - a vile trick perpetuated by the demons for the sole purpose of robbing the shitty players from more joyous vengeance. Anything that may result in a skilless player getting one less kill against a pilot is injustice, no matter how good the argument for such a change might be it is merely the demon's siren song luring our fragile minds into the depths of irrational debauchery. Thus we must ignore these claims and this so called "evidence" that the AA is full of bugs - it is merely an illusion, a spell cast down upon the interweb to trick the mind. Nevermind that it was crappy players who had the aa weakened to begin with in a previous patch when it was half the strength between 1.12 and 1.2. The important thing is that back then crappy players didn't like being shot down. The important thing is that at all times through all the patches the demand of the crappy players for the game to change in a way that they think might allow them a better chance to kill the more skilled players has been met by EA 100%, regardless of the so called "logic" that making the game easier in any way for unskilled and unpracticed players makes it much easier for the skilled and practiced ones.
So true, welcome to Whinerfield 2, where every noob gets a chance to score the same as pro players.
antin0de
Member
+44|6688|SL,UT
Wow that sucks they reset your stats.  Does "suspicious stats" mean they compare your suicides with your W/L ratio, and deduce that you commit suicide to join the winning team? :P

Or do you just forget to open your chute alot...

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