BF2S Forums How'd you feel if they built a Mosque in your neighborhood?

Oh and lowing, if you think Islam should be shunned by the west then I hope you have about 5000 bn barrels of oil under your house because otherwise you're fucked.

lowing wrote:

2. Yeah, if you are going to live in a western society it is up to YOU to do the adjusting. Or if I moved to the ME could I expect to be served a pork sandwhich because I am an "American".
Cam, I have been to Dearborn, in fact my family lives in Detroit and Dearborn is a shithole.

3. yeah ok. I think you just found a way out of this discussion without admitting how fucked up ISLAM and its laws and traditions and practices are and without acknolwedging that I might have made a point or 2 two toward stating why it is portaited as such. THis is not shit I made up Cam,

2. And Islamic-driven atrocities are rampant in Dearborn are they? lol

3. Modern Islam is fine. Archaic Islam isn't. Archaic Islam is practised in a minority of muslim nations. Islam-driven violence is relatively low, especially where it matter: at home. Case closed. Big fucking deal. QED.

lowing wrote:

CameronPoe wrote:

lowing wrote:

Coupla things:

1. I am not alone in this 28 page discussion Cam. I have not been speaking to myself.

2. Intolerance is reason enough to base an opinion that Islam is not suited for western society.

3. I never said Muslims are "inherently evil", Never not once. I said Islam is a violent and intolerant religion, but I will take your advice and reword my comments, as I do agree with you. Islam is a COMPARATIVELY violent and intolerant religion and culture compared to western society and tyherefore I do not feel it meshes with it. I think it detracts from what has been accomplished in the west and I feel it hinders further progress toward tolerance.

1. Kind words have been few and far between. Even fellow cons have suggested ways in which you might 'refine' your argument.

2. Is that what you want to prove? The onus is on Muslims in western nations to adjust not us. By all accounts, Dearborn MI is a fine American city despite have the largest concentration of Muslims in the whole of America. The vast majority of British Muslims fit into society just fine. Istanbul is a fine city. I could drink beers and women walked around wearing whatever they wanted - enlightened modern Islam. It's funny how you switch from 'I'm not talking about western examples' to 'They're not fit to live in western society' without so much as an inch of embarrassed shame...

3. At last. Some semblance of reason.

1. Fellow "cons" do not speak for me or my opinion.

2. Yeah, if you are going to live in a western society it is up to YOU to do the adjusting. Or if I moved to the ME could I expect to be served a pork sandwhich because I am an "American".
Cam, I have been to Dearborn, in fact my family lives in Detroit and Dearborn is a shithole.

3. yeah ok. I think you just found a way out of this discussion without admitting how fucked up ISLAM and its laws and traditions and practices are and without acknolwedging that I might have made a point or 2 two toward stating why it is portaited as such. THis is not shit I made up Cam,

1:

2: How about Turkey. Relatively progressive secular majority Islamic state, similar level of development to much of Eastern Europe, with a higher quality of life than most of them. Most importantly, a fairly tolerant and non-violent nation (again compared to countries at similar levels of development).

3: I've addressed this already - it's nothing to do with the religion, rather it is to do with the nation. To do with social, political and economic development. Give me a few examples that contradict that.

Last edited by Bertster7 (2008-04-01 14:20:07)

CameronPoe wrote:

What's with all the Lowing double posts?

Lack of rational arguments? Though that doesn't usually stop him posting some inane drivel.

Bertster7 wrote:

lowing wrote:

CameronPoe wrote:

1. Kind words have been few and far between. Even fellow cons have suggested ways in which you might 'refine' your argument.

2. Is that what you want to prove? The onus is on Muslims in western nations to adjust not us. By all accounts, Dearborn MI is a fine American city despite have the largest concentration of Muslims in the whole of America. The vast majority of British Muslims fit into society just fine. Istanbul is a fine city. I could drink beers and women walked around wearing whatever they wanted - enlightened modern Islam. It's funny how you switch from 'I'm not talking about western examples' to 'They're not fit to live in western society' without so much as an inch of embarrassed shame...

3. At last. Some semblance of reason.

1. Fellow "cons" do not speak for me or my opinion.

2. Yeah, if you are going to live in a western society it is up to YOU to do the adjusting. Or if I moved to the ME could I expect to be served a pork sandwhich because I am an "American".
Cam, I have been to Dearborn, in fact my family lives in Detroit and Dearborn is a shithole.

3. yeah ok. I think you just found a way out of this discussion without admitting how fucked up ISLAM and its laws and traditions and practices are and without acknolwedging that I might have made a point or 2 two toward stating why it is portaited as such. THis is not shit I made up Cam,

1:

2: How about Turkey. Relatively progressive secular majority Islamic state, similar level of development to much of Eastern Europe, with a higher quality of life than most of them. Most importantly, a fairly tolerant and non-violent nation (again compared to countries at similar levels of development).

3: I've addressed this already - it's nothing to do with the religion, rather it is to do with the nation. To do with social, political and economic development. Give me a few examples that contradict that.

I have addressed it as well, but since you asked, http://www.islam-watch.org/articles.htm     now these article are written by people who are in a better position then you or me to form opinions, and THEY do not agree with you or Cam

Bertster7 wrote:

lowing wrote:

Bertster7 wrote:

1:

2: How about Turkey. Relatively progressive secular majority Islamic state, similar level of development to much of Eastern Europe, with a higher quality of life than most of them. Most importantly, a fairly tolerant and non-violent nation (again compared to countries at similar levels of development).

3: I've addressed this already - it's nothing to do with the religion, rather it is to do with the nation. To do with social, political and economic development. Give me a few examples that contradict that.

I have addressed it as well, but since you asked, http://www.islam-watch.org/articles.htm     now these article are written by people who are in a better position then you or me to form opinions, and THEY do not agree with you or Cam

You've addressed nothing. You've posted a link to a blatantly biased and silly website, which to be honest just makes you look more like a moron. Come up with a rational argument or shut the fuck up.

Biased? These people are more knowledgable on this issue than you or I am. How can you say their experiences within this religion does not count and dismiss it as garbage?

sergeriver wrote:

usmarine wrote:

My answer.

I do not like religion and islam is the worst of them all right now.......hands down.  So I would not be happy.

What about a Temple, a Church or whatever building other religions use?

I haven't had any mormons or baptists try to shoot me yet......

usmarine wrote:

sergeriver wrote:

usmarine wrote:

My answer.

I do not like religion and islam is the worst of them all right now.......hands down.  So I would not be happy.

What about a Temple, a Church or whatever building other religions use?

I haven't had any mormons or baptists try to shoot me yet......

And scientologists?  I heard Tom Cruise has a bad temper.

Braddock wrote:

usmarine wrote:

sergeriver wrote:

What about a Temple, a Church or whatever building other religions use?

I haven't had any mormons or baptists try to shoot me yet......

Must be some rough mosques in your neighbourhood.

8 mile yo

CameronPoe wrote:

lowing wrote:

2. Yeah, if you are going to live in a western society it is up to YOU to do the adjusting. Or if I moved to the ME could I expect to be served a pork sandwhich because I am an "American".
Cam, I have been to Dearborn, in fact my family lives in Detroit and Dearborn is a shithole.

3. yeah ok. I think you just found a way out of this discussion without admitting how fucked up ISLAM and its laws and traditions and practices are and without acknolwedging that I might have made a point or 2 two toward stating why it is portaited as such. THis is not shit I made up Cam,

2. And Islamic-driven atrocities are rampant in Dearborn are they? lol

3. Modern Islam is fine. Archaic Islam isn't. Archaic Islam is practised in a minority of muslim nations. Islam-driven violence is relatively low, especially where it matter: at home. Case closed. Big fucking deal. QED.

2. I dunno, but Dearborn is STILL a shithole.

3. I guess you are not including the intolerance and opression Islam has for non-Muslims, gays, or women huh??

Little Baby jesus wrote:

and you say that islam is intolerant to gay, women... in more developed islamic countries this does not happen... you cant compare america or england and say that their so advanced because their not islamic and compare them to afganistan and say the basis for all their problems is islam...

this is one of the most important aspects to me. Muslims in developed countries rarely cause problems, or fall for the rhetoric of radicals. They usually integrate well into their host society. Of course, there will always be a difference between those who grew up in a western country, and those who migrated into it from someplace else, but that is to be expected to a degree, and happens with muslims just as it happens with buddhists, hindus, jews, or any other religious or ethnic minority. The important thing is that they respect the secular laws of their host nation, and from what I can tell from the situation here in germany, that seems to be the case.

Muslims here in germany, for example, are totally different from muslims in Pakistan, or Iran, or Iraq, or Syria. Especially the younger ones.
They have come to cherish the advantages of secular, free, democratic societies, and have adapted their religion to accommodate their specific needs, not vice-versa.

Religion isn't the issue. From my point of view, we should be talking unemployment, security and education.

lowing wrote:

CameronPoe wrote:

lowing wrote:

2. Yeah, if you are going to live in a western society it is up to YOU to do the adjusting. Or if I moved to the ME could I expect to be served a pork sandwhich because I am an "American".
Cam, I have been to Dearborn, in fact my family lives in Detroit and Dearborn is a shithole.

3. yeah ok. I think you just found a way out of this discussion without admitting how fucked up ISLAM and its laws and traditions and practices are and without acknolwedging that I might have made a point or 2 two toward stating why it is portaited as such. THis is not shit I made up Cam,

2. And Islamic-driven atrocities are rampant in Dearborn are they? lol

3. Modern Islam is fine. Archaic Islam isn't. Archaic Islam is practised in a minority of muslim nations. Islam-driven violence is relatively low, especially where it matter: at home. Case closed. Big fucking deal. QED.

2. I dunno, but Dearborn is STILL a shithole.

3. I guess you are not including the intolerance and opression Islam has for non-Muslims, gays, or women huh??

tolerance comes with education. there are plenty of modern islamic nations that hold tolerant views of non-muslims and promote women's rights.
Overall, islam might not be there yet, but it is quite young compared to christianity, for example. And if you look at the history of homosexuals, or women in christian western nations, you will probably agree with me that how we treated them wasn't all pretty.
The west progressed, and left that behind ( if you leave out some parts of the bible belt, that is ). I wouldn't know why Islam should not be able to do the same. It's not going to happen overnight though. After all, it took the west some two thousand years, and a lot of pain and bloodshed.
Why would you expect Islam to develop any faster ?

And as far as Dearborn is concerned, didn't the first Arabs come to Dearborn to work in the automotive industry ? If you own a Ford, it is quite likely that it was assembled by Americans of arab descent.