| I'd be mad and I'd complain about it | 14% | 14% - 48 | ||||
| I wouldn't care tbh | 55% | 55% - 184 | ||||
| I think it would improve the neighborhood | 2% | 2% - 9 | ||||
| Fuck Islam | 27% | 27% - 91 | ||||
| Total: 332 | ||||||
None of my business? Ok well then I guess since you are not Palistinian or a Jew, nothing that happens between Israel and Palistine is any of your business, so shut the hell up about that topic already, or for that matter you are not Iraqi OR American so shut the hell up about the the war in Iraq or Bush. As a matter of fact everyone on this forum pretty much needs to shut the fuck up about everything if we are going to mind our own business and no longer form opinions and discuss them based on what we see read and hear.CameronPoe wrote:
It's none of your business how fast or slow Islam evolves. That is the business of Muslims and Muslims alone. Perhaps the Islamic world wants to a follow an entirely different path from the rest of us, and so be it: that is their prerogative. Those that live in the west have to fit in with our cultural norms but other than that no Muslim needs to do jackshit for anyone.lowing wrote:
No I don't, I think it has not changed enough to fit into the modern world. We are moving forward and we do not need an anchor like Islam slowing down that momentum like it has in the ME.If they want to sit on that oil and not give it to anyone else then that is also their prerogative. You should be thankful they allowed the companies in to develop the fields in the first place.lowing wrote:
When you talk about UAE and Kuwait and such, all of that money is from oil drilled by forign countries those countries did nothing to develope the refining process or access to the oil, the leaders sat bck andcollected money, with out oil that other western contries developed, ALL of the ME countries would be left in the stone age and you can thank Islam for that.Well it has no legal basis in Morocco, Algeria, Tunisia, Egypt, Lebanon, Jordan, Kyrgyztan, Kosovo, Albania, Bosnia & Herzegovina, Turkey, Kazakhstan, Kuwait, Tajikistan, Turkmenistan, Uzbekistan, Azerbaijan, Chad, Mali, Burkina Faso, Gambia, Guinea, Senegal, UAE, Kuwait, Libya, Malaysia, Qatar, Maldives, Bangladesh...lowing wrote:
I do not know how many coutries it happens in. I do wonder how many countries it is ALLOWED to happen in however.
Basically I think lowing has a problem with other people not bending to the will of the west. Well frankly I want to live in a pluralistic world where individual peoples determine their own path and that their path is not forced by those countries with the most weapons and money just because they sit on a valuable natural resource or just because they are rightly annoyed with the creation of a particular state on their turf.
No my problem is I can read, see and hear.CameronPoe wrote:
How many countries does that happen in lowing?lowing wrote:
I am not comparing bank robberies to LEGALLY stoning a woman for looking at another man, and I won't let you make that comparision withou it being pointed out.Immigrant Muslims learn to adjust as their religion evolves, as Christianity did, to meet the demands of modernity. I think your problem is that you seem to think that religions are static things that never change and are homogenous the world over, which couldn't be further from the truth.lowing wrote:
I am talking about the violence Islam TEACHES as well as practices in the name of Allah.
So we agree Islam is an intolerant religion. Even on that point alone, it does not fit well into a FREE and tolerant western society.
No it is because YOU have down played the significance of Islamic immigration into Europe and the US. YOu maintain ya hardly notice them and any changes that have been made to accomadate them. Fine, so if their numbers are so small and insignificant then I do not think it proper for you to generalize Islam as a whole based on so few.CameronPoe wrote:
Is that because it damages your argument severely?lowing wrote:
Npe I will not let you use Europe and the US as indicators as to how Islam really is.
If you moved to the Me would you stop watching American football, eating pizza, thinking that poor people are a burden to society and would you adopt Islam? I don't think so. Why should a Muslim in America stop praying to Allah or whoever the fuck he wants? I guess you wipe your ass with the 1st Amendment.lowing wrote:
I do not need other cultures bending to the west, simply if you are going to adopt the west as your new home, then it is YOU who should be doing the fucking bending. If I chose to move to the ME it would be no different. I need to conform to that culture, not complain as to how I feel discriminated against because I can not get a pork sandwhich at a restaraunt.
Because, you know, they ruin our society and "don't blend in" and all.sergeriver wrote:
If you moved to the Me would you stop watching American football, eating pizza, thinking that poor people are a burden to society and would you adopt Islam? I don't think so. Why should a Muslim in America stop praying to Allah or whoever the fuck he wants? I guess you wipe your ass with the 1st Amendment.lowing wrote:
I do not need other cultures bending to the west, simply if you are going to adopt the west as your new home, then it is YOU who should be doing the fucking bending. If I chose to move to the ME it would be no different. I need to conform to that culture, not complain as to how I feel discriminated against because I can not get a pork sandwhich at a restaraunt.
There are quite a few Muslims living in Ireland now, not ridiculously huge numbers but enough to say there is a Muslim community. To give you an idea, of the 5 shops immediately next to where I live two are owned by Muslims, one is run by Muslims (don't know who owns it), one is Irish owned and the other is a Tescos supermarket. The reason we hardly notice them is because they get on quite well with everyone.lowing wrote:
No it is because YOU have down played the significance of Islamic immigration into Europe and the US. YOu maintain ya hardly notice them and any changes that have been made to accomadate them. Fine, so if their numbers are so small and insignificant then I do not think it proper for you to generalize Islam as a whole based on so few.CameronPoe wrote:
Is that because it damages your argument severely?lowing wrote:
Npe I will not let you use Europe and the US as indicators as to how Islam really is.
A few months agao I posted this link. It lists several articles by ex-muslims. People "in the know"sergeriver wrote:
The fact is most of us here don't know shit about Islam, yet some people talk about it as if they lived under its rule their whole lives. Ask Poseidon to know more about Islam if you want.Lai wrote:
I must agree with Iowing that I don't think reading the Qu'ran is essential to understanding Islamic culture. You're trying to have a blind man visualize how a sunflower looks by having him eat one of it's seeds.sergeriver wrote:
Again, how can you condemn their whole Religion without reading the Qu'ran or knowing anything at all about Islam? You just know that some assholes like to blow shit up.
Nope but like I said I would not complain that I can not get a pork sandwhich in a restaraunt, or bitch that all that praying is driving me nuts, or that the women are covered up too much, or that they do not have American football or English speaking local news.sergeriver wrote:
If you moved to the Me would you stop watching American football, eating pizza, thinking that poor people are a burden to society and would you adopt Islam? I don't think so. Why should a Muslim in America stop praying to Allah or whoever the fuck he wants? I guess you wipe your ass with the 1st Amendment.lowing wrote:
I do not need other cultures bending to the west, simply if you are going to adopt the west as your new home, then it is YOU who should be doing the fucking bending. If I chose to move to the ME it would be no different. I need to conform to that culture, not complain as to how I feel discriminated against because I can not get a pork sandwhich at a restaraunt.
You are generalizing, this is not allowed, remember? If I can use entire countries and regions to form opinions on Islam, then you certainly can not use a few shop owners.Braddock wrote:
There are quite a few Muslims living in Ireland now, not ridiculously huge numbers but enough to say there is a Muslim community. To give you an idea, of the 5 shops immediately next to where I live two are owned by Muslims, one is run by Muslims (don't know who owns it), one is Irish owned and the other is a Tescos supermarket. The reason we hardly notice them is because they get on quite well with everyone.lowing wrote:
No it is because YOU have down played the significance of Islamic immigration into Europe and the US. YOu maintain ya hardly notice them and any changes that have been made to accomadate them. Fine, so if their numbers are so small and insignificant then I do not think it proper for you to generalize Islam as a whole based on so few.CameronPoe wrote:
Is that because it damages your argument severely?
The individual people very well might "blend in". but the religion of Islam does not. Whether you admit it or not, there is a differencePoseidon wrote:
Because, you know, they ruin our society and "don't blend in" and all.sergeriver wrote:
If you moved to the Me would you stop watching American football, eating pizza, thinking that poor people are a burden to society and would you adopt Islam? I don't think so. Why should a Muslim in America stop praying to Allah or whoever the fuck he wants? I guess you wipe your ass with the 1st Amendment.lowing wrote:
I do not need other cultures bending to the west, simply if you are going to adopt the west as your new home, then it is YOU who should be doing the fucking bending. If I chose to move to the ME it would be no different. I need to conform to that culture, not complain as to how I feel discriminated against because I can not get a pork sandwhich at a restaraunt.
Lowing, no one is denying the existence of horror stories within the Muslim world e.g extremism, forced marriages, mob killings of homosexuals and adulterers etc. but this is not the whole picture when it comes to all Muslims.lowing wrote:
A few months agao I posted this link. It lists several articles by ex-muslims. People "in the know"sergeriver wrote:
The fact is most of us here don't know shit about Islam, yet some people talk about it as if they lived under its rule their whole lives. Ask Poseidon to know more about Islam if you want.Lai wrote:
I must agree with Iowing that I don't think reading the Qu'ran is essential to understanding Islamic culture. You're trying to have a blind man visualize how a sunflower looks by having him eat one of it's seeds.
http://www.islam-watch.org/articles.htm
This is what Sergriver had to say about the articles
http://forums.bf2s.com/post.php?tid=919 … id=1859713
So now, since the articles written by people of this religion who are educated authors, etc... do not agree with Serges opinions they can not be true. For the TRUTH according to Sergeriver, you must seek out Posiedon on a gaming forum.
Sorry lowing, I was using reality as I perceive it to put my opinions across. I'll try and stick to www.islam-watch.com next time.lowing wrote:
You are generalizing, this is not allowed, remember? If I can use entire countries and regions to form opinions on Islam, then you certainly can not use a few shop owners.Braddock wrote:
There are quite a few Muslims living in Ireland now, not ridiculously huge numbers but enough to say there is a Muslim community. To give you an idea, of the 5 shops immediately next to where I live two are owned by Muslims, one is run by Muslims (don't know who owns it), one is Irish owned and the other is a Tescos supermarket. The reason we hardly notice them is because they get on quite well with everyone.lowing wrote:
No it is because YOU have down played the significance of Islamic immigration into Europe and the US. YOu maintain ya hardly notice them and any changes that have been made to accomadate them. Fine, so if their numbers are so small and insignificant then I do not think it proper for you to generalize Islam as a whole based on so few.
Neither does the Bible? The bible claims masturbation's a sin. And yet I can almost 100% guarantee that everyone here's done it (today ). Sex before marriage also is a sin according to the bible...but hooking up with random girls and pre-marital sex is pretty much part of our culture at this point.lowing wrote:
The individual people very well might "blend in". but the religion of Islam does not. Whether you admit it or not, there is a differencePoseidon wrote:
Because, you know, they ruin our society and "don't blend in" and all.sergeriver wrote:
If you moved to the Me would you stop watching American football, eating pizza, thinking that poor people are a burden to society and would you adopt Islam? I don't think so. Why should a Muslim in America stop praying to Allah or whoever the fuck he wants? I guess you wipe your ass with the 1st Amendment.
I guess the articles written by people who were part of this religion, no nothing of the reality of it, according to you then?? You might wanna go there and read up. It is pretty interesting, insightful. The only problem with it is, it does not agree with you and others as far as what reality is.Braddock wrote:
Sorry lowing, I was using reality as I perceive it to put my opinions across. I'll try and stick to www.islam-watch.com next time.lowing wrote:
You are generalizing, this is not allowed, remember? If I can use entire countries and regions to form opinions on Islam, then you certainly can not use a few shop owners.Braddock wrote:
There are quite a few Muslims living in Ireland now, not ridiculously huge numbers but enough to say there is a Muslim community. To give you an idea, of the 5 shops immediately next to where I live two are owned by Muslims, one is run by Muslims (don't know who owns it), one is Irish owned and the other is a Tescos supermarket. The reason we hardly notice them is because they get on quite well with everyone.
You use "entire countries" to form your opinion, but you use them as entities themselves; you do not use the individual members of the population. Is it not much less generalizing and more statistically correct if I'd say that of all muslims I know personally, at least 90% are "ok"?lowing wrote:
You are generalizing, this is not allowed, remember? If I can use entire countries and regions to form opinions on Islam, then you certainly can not use a few shop owners.
You might want to read my other posts in this thread lowing. I've already acknowledged that horror stories exist in the Muslim world, what I've said though is that it doesn't give a true representation of the entire Muslim world. Like I said before, shall I disregard all other positive knowledge that I have of the US as a nation and as a people and instead base my opinions purely on anti-American sites (many Americans speak out about their own countries machinations, are they to be ignored because they know nothing of their own country?).lowing wrote:
I guess the articles written by people who were part of this religion, no nothing of the reality of it, according to you then?? You might wanna go there and read up. It is pretty interesting, insightful. The only problem with it is, it does not agree with you and others as far as what reality is.Braddock wrote:
Sorry lowing, I was using reality as I perceive it to put my opinions across. I'll try and stick to www.islam-watch.com next time.lowing wrote:
You are generalizing, this is not allowed, remember? If I can use entire countries and regions to form opinions on Islam, then you certainly can not use a few shop owners.
Certainly doesn't seem that way. You lived in Iran, Saudi Arabia or Pakistan at some point? You're not characterising a whole plethora of nations on the basis of a minority of nations are you? You're not characterising a whole plethora of people on the basis of a minority are you? Answer those two questions truthfully with one word answers and be able to defend your position and I'll accept your argument.lowing wrote:
No my problem is I can read, see and hear.
Last edited by CameronPoe (2008-03-31 12:36:21)
censorship!Poseidon wrote:
Erm. Is it me, or did a whole fuckload of posts just disappear?
Chuy just said (on IRC) that it's a server overload. No worries.Braddock wrote:
censorship!Poseidon wrote:
Erm. Is it me, or did a whole fuckload of posts just disappear?
1. nope. I am judging a religion and a culture. Based on your argument I can not judge the Nazi Party based on Hitler, Goering, Gerbells, and Himmler. Becasue there were probably a few that were actually nice guys and never killed anyone.CameronPoe wrote:
Certainly doesn't seem that way. You lived in Iran, Saudi Arabia or Pakistan at some point? You're not characterising a whole plethora of nations on the basis of a minority of nations are you? You're not characterising a whole plethora of people on the basis of a minority are you? Answer those two questions truthfully with one word answers and be able to defend your position and I'll accept your argument.lowing wrote:
No my problem is I can read, see and hear.
No what does not give a true representation of the intolerance and archaic laws of Islam is muslims in the US and Europe, for 2 reasons, 1. It is too small a sample group, ( you guys already admitted that a long time ago) and second, they do not practice Islam as it is taught.Braddock wrote:
You might want to read my other posts in this thread lowing. I've already acknowledged that horror stories exist in the Muslim world, what I've said though is that it doesn't give a true representation of the entire Muslim world. Like I said before, shall I disregard all other positive knowledge that I have of the US as a nation and as a people and instead base my opinions purely on anti-American sites (many Americans speak out about their own countries machinations, are they to be ignored because they know nothing of their own country?).lowing wrote:
I guess the articles written by people who were part of this religion, no nothing of the reality of it, according to you then?? You might wanna go there and read up. It is pretty interesting, insightful. The only problem with it is, it does not agree with you and others as far as what reality is.Braddock wrote:
Sorry lowing, I was using reality as I perceive it to put my opinions across. I'll try and stick to www.islam-watch.com next time.
But why should I be bothered about how Islamic nations conduct their affairs in the Middle east when it doesn't involve me. Are you suggesting an invasion or something? I condemn violence against women and homosexuals in those societies the same way that I condemn aggressive US foreign policy, what more do you want?lowing wrote:
No what does not give a true representation of the intolerance and archaic laws of Islam is muslims in the US and Europe, for 2 reasons, 1. It is too small a sample group, ( you guys already admitted that a long time ago) and second, they do not practice Islam as it is taught.Braddock wrote:
You might want to read my other posts in this thread lowing. I've already acknowledged that horror stories exist in the Muslim world, what I've said though is that it doesn't give a true representation of the entire Muslim world. Like I said before, shall I disregard all other positive knowledge that I have of the US as a nation and as a people and instead base my opinions purely on anti-American sites (many Americans speak out about their own countries machinations, are they to be ignored because they know nothing of their own country?).lowing wrote:
I guess the articles written by people who were part of this religion, no nothing of the reality of it, according to you then?? You might wanna go there and read up. It is pretty interesting, insightful. The only problem with it is, it does not agree with you and others as far as what reality is.
I do not give a shit how Islam is practiced in the ME, they could stone each other to death until the cows come home for all I care. Just stop denying that Islam as a culture and religion is archaic intolerant and violent. Muslims in Europe and the US do not follow Islamic law they follow the laws that are established in those countries. They are also too small a sample group to count, according you guys.Braddock wrote:
But why should I be bothered about how Islamic nations conduct their affairs in the Middle east when it doesn't involve me. Are you suggesting an invasion or something? I condemn violence against women and homosexuals in those societies the same way that I condemn aggressive US foreign policy, what more do you want?lowing wrote:
No what does not give a true representation of the intolerance and archaic laws of Islam is muslims in the US and Europe, for 2 reasons, 1. It is too small a sample group, ( you guys already admitted that a long time ago) and second, they do not practice Islam as it is taught.Braddock wrote:
You might want to read my other posts in this thread lowing. I've already acknowledged that horror stories exist in the Muslim world, what I've said though is that it doesn't give a true representation of the entire Muslim world. Like I said before, shall I disregard all other positive knowledge that I have of the US as a nation and as a people and instead base my opinions purely on anti-American sites (many Americans speak out about their own countries machinations, are they to be ignored because they know nothing of their own country?).
Christians do not practice their faith as it is taught either by the way, if they did there would be a lot more virgins around.