BF2S Forums How'd you feel if they built a Mosque in your neighborhood?

lowing wrote:

We will see how peaceful the protests get. If there is no violence, I will be shocked......As I think you will be

Last edited by CameronPoe (2008-03-28 04:29:25)

lowing wrote:

CameronPoe wrote:

lowing wrote:

Hmmmmm, first cartoons and now a movie for Islam worldwide to protest. I honestly think there are more than just a coupla "extremists" out there Cam.

and I what vast majority of Muslims are you speaking of. It has already been established that the Muslims in America and Europe are of such small percentage that they are hardly even noticable and do not affect anything in those countries, so who is the vast majority that you refer?

Moroccans, Algerians, Egyptians, Jordanians, Emirates, Qataris, Turks, Turkmen, Kazakhs, Uzbeks, Azeris, Tunisians, Kyrgyz, Chinese Hui, Omanis, Bahrainians, Malaysians, Kuwaitis - why do we never hear much out of these 'violent and intolerant' nations. The UAE is soooo intolerant that it is a weekend drinking destination for thousands of Saudi Muslims, as I learned from a Saudi myself.

Would your family members protest a movie that tried to portray your entire extended family as paedophiles just because you got caught touching a young boy somewhere you shouldn't have?

That's the beauty of free speech - you can put out your take on events and those that disagree can protest it. Marvellous isn't it?

We will see how peaceful the protests get. If there is no violence, I will be shocked......As I think you will be

Also, what century are most of those countries lost in?

lowing wrote:

Anti glogalisation? Since when is a political cartoon denoting that?

lowing wrote:

Little BaBy JESUS wrote:

lowing wrote:

Ummmmmmmm, Ken??

Well for one im gonna say that any comparison on the net is going to obviously be very biased so it does really prove ur point....
but also, its different comparing a man who was "the son of god" and a man who founded a religion based on prophets and beleifs from other religions and his interpritation.... and you saying that christians ignore the old testament is not true... they beleive strongly in the creation story etc and other old testament stories yet dont practise the parts about killing gays and not allowing anyone with bad eyesight into the church... so muslims do not nessesarily practise every aspected of their prophets teachings.

I didn't say Christians did not acknowledge the Old Testament, I said their faith is based on the teachings of CHRIST. That is why they are called CHRISTians.

WHat doesthe internet have to do with anything. Or are you saying that the comparisons are inaccurote? IF that is what you are saying then show me where and how the comparisons are untrue. Accuracy or not is how you can critisize the information not if it supports your point or not.

The entire point of this aspect of the argument is that Islam is based on hate, intolerance and violence toward others and Christianity is based on tolerance and forgiveness. These comparisons just provedthat point.

Whether or not self proclaimed Christians actually follow the teaching of Christ is another matter, but the practices of the extremists ARE folllowing the teachings of Muhammad. You all are even admitting that the "moderaste Muslims" are diluting Islam and they do not follow the vilolent aspects of their religion.  That is fine, but that does not dilute what their religion actually TEACHES. Which is violence, intolerance and hate.

lowing wrote:

Little BaBy JESUS wrote:

lowing wrote:

I didn't say Christians did not acknowledge the Old Testament, I said their faith is based on the teachings of CHRIST. That is why they are called CHRISTians.

WHat doesthe internet have to do with anything. Or are you saying that the comparisons are inaccurote? IF that is what you are saying then show me where and how the comparisons are untrue. Accuracy or not is how you can critisize the information not if it supports your point or not.

The entire point of this aspect of the argument is that Islam is based on hate, intolerance and violence toward others and Christianity is based on tolerance and forgiveness. These comparisons just provedthat point.

Whether or not self proclaimed Christians actually follow the teaching of Christ is another matter, but the practices of the extremists ARE folllowing the teachings of Muhammad. You all are even admitting that the "moderaste Muslims" are diluting Islam and they do not follow the vilolent aspects of their religion.  That is fine, but that does not dilute what their religion actually TEACHES. Which is violence, intolerance and hate.

See you are wrong in saying that christians ONLY follow christs teachings... they also follow many other teachings throughout the bible from other disiples etc... and extremist christians follow all that violent stuf in the old testament.... same with muslims.. the extremists may practise the violent parts but the VAST MAJORITY do not...

and i was saying that internet articles comparing muhummad and jesus are just going to be a tad biased depending on what site you use because if you think there isnt christian propaganda on the net you are quite mistaken...

Read this

i do suggest you read that... i think you will just ignore it but hey....
also who would think that if muslims only followed the teachings of muhummad they would be called muhummadians (doesnt really have a ring to it lol)

so by comparing christ and muhummad you are still not comparing the religions just their founders/ prophets (whatever you want to call them)

Luke 19.27 was a parable, or story being told by Jesus, he was not speaking of himself. It is still undeniable........the facts of the 2 men and their teachings speak for themselves. I can not defend "Christians" who take the words and teaching of Jesus and do not follow them, and I can not defend the Muslims who take the words and teachings of Muhammad and follow them.

Bottom line, it is a fact that Islam is its own worse enemy. Their intolerant actions, laws and words, speak for themselves. I am not claiming Islam is violent and intolerant. Islam is SHOWING it is violent and intolerant, and as such I do not like it.

Braddock wrote:

lowing wrote:

Little BaBy JESUS wrote:

See you are wrong in saying that christians ONLY follow christs teachings... they also follow many other teachings throughout the bible from other disiples etc... and extremist christians follow all that violent stuf in the old testament.... same with muslims.. the extremists may practise the violent parts but the VAST MAJORITY do not...

and i was saying that internet articles comparing muhummad and jesus are just going to be a tad biased depending on what site you use because if you think there isnt christian propaganda on the net you are quite mistaken...

Read this

i do suggest you read that... i think you will just ignore it but hey....
also who would think that if muslims only followed the teachings of muhummad they would be called muhummadians (doesnt really have a ring to it lol)

so by comparing christ and muhummad you are still not comparing the religions just their founders/ prophets (whatever you want to call them)

Luke 19.27 was a parable, or story being told by Jesus, he was not speaking of himself. It is still undeniable........the facts of the 2 men and their teachings speak for themselves. I can not defend "Christians" who take the words and teaching of Jesus and do not follow them, and I can not defend the Muslims who take the words and teachings of Muhammad and follow them.

Bottom line, it is a fact that Islam is its own worse enemy. Their intolerant actions, laws and words, speak for themselves. I am not claiming Islam is violent and intolerant. Islam is SHOWING it is violent and intolerant, and as such I do not like it.

Correction... a small minority within the Muslim world is showing itself to be violent and intolerant, the rest of them are too busy getting on quite well with the rest of the world.

I will repeat again: I have never met a Muslim who I have not got along amicably with; I've met plenty of Catholics, Protestants and Atheists I've not got along with but as of yet no Muslims and there are plenty of Muslims in Ireland these days. Until I start seeing proof of your apocalyptic vision I will keep faith in what empirical knowledge I have.

sergeriver wrote:

lowing wrote:

Little BaBy JESUS wrote:

See you are wrong in saying that christians ONLY follow christs teachings... they also follow many other teachings throughout the bible from other disiples etc... and extremist christians follow all that violent stuf in the old testament.... same with muslims.. the extremists may practise the violent parts but the VAST MAJORITY do not...

and i was saying that internet articles comparing muhummad and jesus are just going to be a tad biased depending on what site you use because if you think there isnt christian propaganda on the net you are quite mistaken...

Read this

i do suggest you read that... i think you will just ignore it but hey....
also who would think that if muslims only followed the teachings of muhummad they would be called muhummadians (doesnt really have a ring to it lol)

so by comparing christ and muhummad you are still not comparing the religions just their founders/ prophets (whatever you want to call them)

Luke 19.27 was a parable, or story being told by Jesus, he was not speaking of himself. It is still undeniable........the facts of the 2 men and their teachings speak for themselves. I can not defend "Christians" who take the words and teaching of Jesus and do not follow them, and I can not defend the Muslims who take the words and teachings of Muhammad and follow them.

Bottom line, it is a fact that Islam is its own worse enemy. Their intolerant actions, laws and words, speak for themselves. I am not claiming Islam is violent and intolerant. Islam is SHOWING it is violent and intolerant, and as such I do not like it.

We must assume you read the Qu'ran several times in order to be such an expert on the violence and intolerance within Islam.

lowing wrote:

Braddock wrote:

lowing wrote:

Luke 19.27 was a parable, or story being told by Jesus, he was not speaking of himself. It is still undeniable........the facts of the 2 men and their teachings speak for themselves. I can not defend "Christians" who take the words and teaching of Jesus and do not follow them, and I can not defend the Muslims who take the words and teachings of Muhammad and follow them.

Bottom line, it is a fact that Islam is its own worse enemy. Their intolerant actions, laws and words, speak for themselves. I am not claiming Islam is violent and intolerant. Islam is SHOWING it is violent and intolerant, and as such I do not like it.

Correction... a small minority within the Muslim world is showing itself to be violent and intolerant, the rest of them are too busy getting on quite well with the rest of the world.

I will repeat again: I have never met a Muslim who I have not got along amicably with; I've met plenty of Catholics, Protestants and Atheists I've not got along with but as of yet no Muslims and there are plenty of Muslims in Ireland these days. Until I start seeing proof of your apocalyptic vision I will keep faith in what empirical knowledge I have.

We need to take this one a step at a time. I claim Islam is a religion that teaches violence and intolerance toward those that do not follow it, women and gays etc........ This is indisputable. TEACHES, is different from what someone follows. Cristians teach forgivness, peace and tolerance, the self proclaimed Christians that do not follow these teachings are not following Christianity. The Muslims that are not following the teachings of Islam ARE NOT following its teachings. Period.

It has been argued here that Islam in the US and Europe is so small and insignificant that its presence does not affect those 2 continants. NOW you are telling me there are plenty of Muslims in Ireland these days. This tells me that there is a SIGNIFICANTLY growing population of Muslims in Ireland and I will assume Europe. This can only bring change. So tell me, which argument are you gunna stick with?

Braddock wrote:

lowing wrote:

Braddock wrote:

Correction... a small minority within the Muslim world is showing itself to be violent and intolerant, the rest of them are too busy getting on quite well with the rest of the world.

I will repeat again: I have never met a Muslim who I have not got along amicably with; I've met plenty of Catholics, Protestants and Atheists I've not got along with but as of yet no Muslims and there are plenty of Muslims in Ireland these days. Until I start seeing proof of your apocalyptic vision I will keep faith in what empirical knowledge I have.

We need to take this one a step at a time. I claim Islam is a religion that teaches violence and intolerance toward those that do not follow it, women and gays etc........ This is indisputable. TEACHES, is different from what someone follows. Cristians teach forgivness, peace and tolerance, the self proclaimed Christians that do not follow these teachings are not following Christianity. The Muslims that are not following the teachings of Islam ARE NOT following its teachings. Period.

It has been argued here that Islam in the US and Europe is so small and insignificant that its presence does not affect those 2 continants. NOW you are telling me there are plenty of Muslims in Ireland these days. This tells me that there is a SIGNIFICANTLY growing population of Muslims in Ireland and I will assume Europe. This can only bring change. So tell me, which argument are you gunna stick with?

Firstly lowing I would say that the Islamic faith does not presently have a Pope-style figurehead and as such the faith has a wide variety of interpretations, from peace loving and liberal to extremist and hateful (like Wahhabism, as preached in the American 'ally' nation Saudi Arabia). As a religion Christianity has the benefit of being older and wiser, they have a pretty dark and bloodthirsty past themselves though. The current attitude of extremist Muslims is not a million miles away from the mentality of the 'Crusaders' on their bloodthirsty assault of the Muslim world. And when it comes to treatment of women the Christian faith is not exactly exemplary. Female priests are still a rarity in most Christian sects today never mind the attitudes held towards women throughout history.

lowing wrote:

We are not comparing Christianity 400 years ago with Islam today. I am alive today and my opinions are based on current events. WOmen in Christianity are not oppressed. Mother Terresa anyone?

Last edited by CameronPoe (2008-03-30 16:22:41)

CameronPoe wrote:

lowing wrote:

Ok dispute it, and prove it. I have current events on my side that proves my point. We both know that. SO go ahead and show me. Now you are not allowed to use America or even Europe as your shinning example since you all have decreeded that Islam in America nad Europe is small and insignificant.

You certainly don't have current events on your side that prove that Islam is inherently violent. If it was then we'd need to see WAAAAYYYY more violence. Violence is proportional to poverty. You don't see any violence in UAE, but you see plenty in Iraq and Afghanistan... Outside of Iraq and Afghanistan you hardly see any 'Islamic' violence. One event in a blue moon.

Braddock wrote:

lowing wrote:

Bertster7 wrote:

How is that indisputable?

Ok dispute it, and prove it. I have current events on my side that proves my point. We both know that. SO go ahead and show me. Now you are not allowed to use America or even Europe as your shinning example since you all have decreeded that Islam in America nad Europe is small and insignificant.

The truth is lowing Muslims doing nice, peace-loving things doesn't tend to make the news so one would find it quite hard to 'prove' their case in that sense. You say you have current affairs on your side, well that is only because nothing sells papers and gets ratings like a good terrorist story or controversial Islamic story and in any case the stories that do make the news still can't be taken as a representation of the entire Muslim population of the world. That would be like me presuming every US soldier was a heartless butcher based purely on that video of the soldier throwing the puppy over the cliff!

I really don't see why you are so aggrieved by the Muslim world. I know elements in the media would like to have us believe they all want to slaughter us in the name of Allah but I have just never experienced that side of the Muslim community, until I do I will not buy into the Muslim scaremongering. It's just the same as the Commie bullshit during the cold war except this time it's not even a country, it's a bunch of extremists who are never going to get power anywhere anyway (except maybe Pakistan or Saudi Arabia, who ironically are the US's favourite fuck buddies).