BF2S Forums Fitna the Movie: "Geert Wilders' anti-koran movie

cockney rhyming slang?

Alpha, it sounds like your country needs to start deporting Muslims -- at least the radical ones.

the first time I saw Ayaan Hirshi Ali  was on the Colbert report.   I think she did a few shows promoting her book.



EDIT: Id hit it

Last edited by GunSlinger OIF II (2008-03-27 15:17:38)

Turquoise wrote:

topal63 wrote:

That is sort of backward thinking - no?

Their liberal immigration policies allowed the influx in. So now they'll have just have to deal with the all the nonsense religion has to offer. Ignorance of Islam and Islam's history could not remotely been viewed by me as an viable argument - for we were unaware of the existence extreme differences in people's worldviews. I am not suggesting any form of appeasement; or political correctness pandering; but they have to deal with a population that's there to stay and minority-culture that won't be assimilated into the mainstream in most peoples lifetime.

I would argue the liberal immigration policies were the backwards part.  You'll notice that the European countries that are more strict about immigration don't have so many problems with Muslims.

Immigration should be handled in a very guarded and conservative way in order to preserve one's own native culture.  Even America must consider this when dealing with cultural groups that are vastly different from our own mix of culture.  Certain cultures do not appreciate freedom of speech as much as we do, and thus, we should limit how many are allowed into our countries to avoid problems like the ones that Denmark and the Netherlands are facing.

That's exactly the point I was making. Ignorance of the resulting culture-clash is an over and done thing. It's a moot point. Mistake or not - it's already happened. They'll have to deal with their past polices - the present day fallout. GTFO = a no go, IMO. Criminal behavior is simply criminal behavior, whether committed by a Muslim extremist or not. They just need to treat criminals like criminals regardless of their religion.

']['error wrote:

Agent_Dung_Bomb wrote:

Cool, I'll have to download that when I get home.

Nothing cool about this movie, the moslim community is taking this very serious and people all over the world are expecting terrorist attacks.

Yes why dont we forget where we come from and crawl up their asses all the time.
They seem to be able to say whatever they want, but when the west says something is always bad.
Its just like always, there are a few fuckers that screw it up for the rest.

Last edited by delta4bravo*nl* (2008-03-28 06:48:40)

Turquoise wrote:

topal63 wrote:

That's exactly the point I was making. Ignorance of the resulting culture-clash is an over and done thing. It's a moot point. Mistake or not - it's already happened. They'll have to deal with their past polices - the present day fallout. GTFO = a no go, IMO. Criminal behavior is simply criminal behavior, whether committed by a Muslim extremist or not. They just need to treat criminals like criminals regardless of their religion.

What I'm suggesting is deporting people in the process of gaining citizenship that cause problems, imprisoning people that are citizens that commit crimes, and restricting immigration from certain countries to avoid more problems from these people.

America doesn't have as much to worry about, but the Netherlands really needs more conservative immigration policies from what it looks like right now.  The same would appear to be true of Denmark and possibly the U.K, Germany, and France.

Neh, Islamic immigration into Europe is insignificant and a non-issue. Europe welcomes the diviersity that Islam brings to their countries. At least according to members of this forum

CameronPoe wrote:

lowing wrote:

CameronPoe wrote:

Nice balanced movie...

lol. I didn't watch it yet. Are you saying the movie is UNTRUE Cam?

No I'm saying that it only presents one side of the story and as such is quite misleading in certain regards. For one it prints a sura I am familiar with out of context - deliberately omitting the next sentence of the sura, which completely nullifies the gist of what they are trying to put across in printing it.

The problem is that this is how radical Islam teaches its beliefs so that even little kids grow up believing Israelis are pigs, less than human because the Koran says so. Radical Islam doesn't preach the whole book, they preach the parts that will get a teenager to strap a belt on and blow himself up. If anything, radical Islam takes more scriptures out of context than anybody else. This movie may be biased in some ways but it can also be a tool of warning and to be honest, a lot of what was said was not "printed", most of this was taken right from actual preachings in mosques, in videos and on signs. There was nothing that was untrue in this video. It stated the obvious threat and will of RADICAL Islam...let me say that again....RADICAL ISLAM.

Look his movie is alot of crap piled on top of eachother. It's worth nill, and he mixes up radical muslims with the actual peacefull muslims. He shows pieces out of the Quran, but doesn't finish them or start them properly. For example one was strike terror in the hearts of the enemy etc etc but a few lines after that it would've said; if the enemy gives in to you, or doesn't want to fight anymore you stop and try to rebuild your ties with the enemy. Simple.

And the stuff that's said about forbidding the movie isn't appeasing or bending over or blablabla, it might be that this movie, although it's crap and doesn't represent anything, might shake up a few middle eastern countries, to break their ties and trade with the netherlands, this has already been shouted in Iran (their government hasn't confirmed or responded to that yet though). And it might also anger a couple of radicals into making us a more likely target for an attack somewhere.

Infact, if we would forbid the movie, we would lose one biased overly racist politician, gain a little more credit from the islamic world and everyone's happy. shove that 'oh you're appeasing to them' bullshit up your ass. It's a retarded idea to let your bonds with other countries get worse, and make alot of people angry just because you've got freedom of speech. If you wouldn't do this stuff in the first place you won't have to deal with the problems it would bring, and those are too negative.

The movie isn't contributing anything to us anyway, it's only there to strike fear in the hearts of easily convinced people, and the title is more than appropriate for it. Fitna means making people go up against eachother, and that's exactly what Wilders is trying to do.

Radical muslims is all this movie is about, not about the normal muslims living in the Netherlands, I honestly don't give a damn about what people believe in anyway as long as they're good people, and radicals are not. They're just ordinary criminals that do their deeds 'because allah says so' or some bullshit. They should be treated accordingly to their actions anyway.

Turquoise wrote:

topal63 wrote:

That is sort of backward thinking - no?

Their liberal immigration policies allowed the influx in. So now they'll have just have to deal with the all the nonsense religion has to offer. Ignorance of Islam and Islam's history could not remotely been viewed by me as an viable argument - for we were unaware of the existence extreme differences in people's worldviews. I am not suggesting any form of appeasement; or political correctness pandering; but they have to deal with a population that's there to stay and minority-culture that won't be assimilated into the mainstream in most peoples lifetime.

I would argue the liberal immigration policies were the backwards part.  You'll notice that the European countries that are more strict about immigration don't have so many problems with Muslims.

No. They have other problems.

Many of which stem from having a population in decline, since much of Europe has a birth rate slightly lower than their death rate. In order for these economies to flourish (or continue to grow at an adequate rate to offset interest from debts), they NEED immigration on a fairly large scale. Though intra-EU immigration does seem like a better idea to me - which is why it accounts for the vast majority of immigration into most European countries. Which is why everything gets done by Polish builders these days....

Turquoise wrote:

Immigration should be handled in a very guarded and conservative way in order to preserve one's own native culture.  Even America must consider this when dealing with cultural groups that are vastly different from our own mix of culture.

Bollocks it should. Countries change and evolve. It has always happened and will continue to happen. Cultural shift is a positive thing. Being scared of change is not. Britain has had massive cultural shift based upon our history, mass immigration from all over the Commonwealth, being a prime example. America has pretty much only got immigrant culture. How many of the native Americans traditions are preserved?

Things change. Don't be scared of it. Just give it a nudge in a positive direction and appreciate the benefits of living in a diverse multi cultural society.

Bertster7 wrote:

Many of which stem from having a population in decline, since much of Europe has a birth rate slightly lower than their death rate. In order for these economies to flourish (or continue to grow at an adequate rate to offset interest from debts), they NEED immigration on a fairly large scale. Though intra-EU immigration does seem like a better idea to me - which is why it accounts for the vast majority of immigration into most European countries. Which is why everything gets done by Polish builders these days....

Agreed, but that's why being selective in letting people in is best.  As wealthy countries, you can decide for yourselves who you want to let in.  There are plenty of takers involved.  Why not only let in cultures that gel better with your societies?  Doesn't that make more sense than what you're currently doing?

Bertster7 wrote:

Bollocks it should. Countries change and evolve. It has always happened and will continue to happen. Cultural shift is a positive thing. Being scared of change is not. Britain has had massive cultural shift based upon our history, mass immigration from all over the Commonwealth, being a prime example. America has pretty much only got immigrant culture. How many of the native Americans traditions are preserved?

Things change. Don't be scared of it. Just give it a nudge in a positive direction and appreciate the benefits of living in a diverse multi cultural society.

So, it doesn't bother you that a good portion of the Islamic community in the U.K. encourages your politically correct politicians to restrict free speech?  It doesn't bother you that places like Green Lane Mosque allow extremist clerics to speak during their sermons?   They take full advantage of the freedom of speech with their extremists, and then they have the nerve to tell others that they can't criticize Islam.  That hypocrisy is blatant enough to make any observant person at least wary of the Muslim community.

I'm going to have to side with lowing on this particular matter because of the effects that are being shown that Islam is having on Europe.  Obviously, most Muslims are decent people, but it's best to limit their immigration to avoid allowing in too many extremists.  The need for immigrants can be filled by less volatile groups that are more understanding of the freedom of speech.

Turquoise wrote:

dayarath wrote:

Infact, if we would forbid the movie, we would lose one biased overly racist politician, gain a little more credit from the islamic world and everyone's happy. shove that 'oh you're appeasing to them' bullshit up your ass. It's a retarded idea to let your bonds with other countries get worse, and make alot of people angry just because you've got freedom of speech. If you wouldn't do this stuff in the first place you won't have to deal with the problems it would bring, and those are too negative.

...and losing your freedom of speech isn't "too negative"?  Look, the Netherlands went for the neutral angle in both world wars, and that didn't work too well, did it?  Well, this isn't anything near as threatening as the Nazies, but it's the same principle.  Are you just going to continue submitting to intimidation as a country?  To me, that's more about having "bullshit up your ass."

Besides, if Muslim trading partners are that touchy, you can't depend on them anyway.  You should shift your trade elsewhere to countries less invasive about your freedom of speech.

You can take freedom of speech too far by hiding underneath it to spread your racism. He generalizes muslims incredibly, doesn't contribute anything to our situation except breeding hatred aimed towards us in another group of people. His film can damage our situation without giving anything in return.

My freedom of speech is always there, but what harm is there in making him shut up? A politician of his influential level should know better than to do needless stuff like this. And a war is hardly comparable to what he's doing, this time we are not neutral- by a long shot actually- and we don't need someone like him to put salt in the wounds.

If we would have the same ignorance he's spewing I don't think we'd ever make it on the island of Deshima a couple hundred years ago. He is too influential to talk in the way he does, he shouldn't. As I've said before, all he's doing is making the situation worse than it already is.

Freedom of speech has his limitations. If all he's doing is making the situations we currently have go into a bigger negative without any positives to balance it he's not worth his freedom of speech, he's abusing it aswell.

The fact of the matter is that keeping favorable ties with everyone around you is only good, if that requires you to shut up about some things very sensitive to these people so be it. It doesn't hurt us to shut up, and it doesn't hurt them either if we don't open our mouthes. It's not like Wilders can turn over the middle east on his own either, nor does he propose any solution to the situation but that we should exterminate the islamic world. Bad idea.

inb4lowi--nevermind

Turquoise wrote:

Stubbee wrote:

Live leak has removed the film due to threats to its staff.

Why am I not surprised?  Score another one for the religion of peace.

And what are we going to do about it if we would provocate them and keep the video on there. The radicals are an organized group that blend in inbetween the normal civilians, how do you want to root them out without getting considerable casualties on your own side, and for what good?

Let this religion of peace actually carry out their threats to the staff or make the staff walk under protection all day long? You can't confront these people head on without making a huge number of civilian casualties / sparking another war. It's not worth it.