No offence but I'm not going to take advice from someone who has had less than 2 hours in a heli. Plus heli's are designed to hover hence why you see them over flags sometimes.bigelectricat wrote:
try flying lower to avoid detection as you approach a target and fly faster. they wont know youre coming. then leave the area after you drop ground troops instead of spawncamping with the blackhawk.General_CoLin_Tassi wrote:
Yep. Any transport heli is going to struggle. The hit points need increasing on these as they can carry 6 people and they are now too easy to shoot down. AA and .50's are now to strong against the heli's IMO.
new helis are so weak, i got a squad of 6 guys today all with m95's and we were shooting attack helos outta the sky lol it was so funneh
yeah it is prety bad saying that helis are slower than planes so they can't escape them as fast or try to. but they can at least hover low in defense mode
I actually did some testing on the resilience of planes and helos....
As a matter of fact, to down a helo with a .50cal MG, you need to fire at it until the MG overheats and every bullet must hit. A Jet takes fire until the .50cal heatlevel reaches a point between 1/3 and 1/2 (all bullets hit). This was tested on stationary targets with noone else on the server.
As for AA Emplacements and Tanks... I mean... they fire frigging IR AA Missiles.... it is completely way over top, that a Jet just needs to turn a bit to shake them. Before the patch it took 3 solid hits with a Sidewinder to down a jet (in real life you are already in a world of hurt after one direct hit).
Also: A helo is downed after one solid hit with a tank gun and some concentrated fire from the Coax. During that time, he can release a full volley of Hydras which can kill the tank in time if the first 4 hits count... however, if the helo pilot is stupid enough to fly that low, it is his own fault... if he would rise a bit and give his gunner to release that TV Missile, the tank would be toast.
I have played some really enjoyable games with the new patch and personally, I do not have a reason for complaint there.
As a matter of fact, to down a helo with a .50cal MG, you need to fire at it until the MG overheats and every bullet must hit. A Jet takes fire until the .50cal heatlevel reaches a point between 1/3 and 1/2 (all bullets hit). This was tested on stationary targets with noone else on the server.
As for AA Emplacements and Tanks... I mean... they fire frigging IR AA Missiles.... it is completely way over top, that a Jet just needs to turn a bit to shake them. Before the patch it took 3 solid hits with a Sidewinder to down a jet (in real life you are already in a world of hurt after one direct hit).
Also: A helo is downed after one solid hit with a tank gun and some concentrated fire from the Coax. During that time, he can release a full volley of Hydras which can kill the tank in time if the first 4 hits count... however, if the helo pilot is stupid enough to fly that low, it is his own fault... if he would rise a bit and give his gunner to release that TV Missile, the tank would be toast.
I have played some really enjoyable games with the new patch and personally, I do not have a reason for complaint there.
The Armor decrease is minimal, There is actually the same number of missles now as before, just given to you differently, 8 at a time instead of 12 with 4 reloads instead of 3. AA works for the most part like it should against heli, planes are a little sick but still can be delt with fairly easily.niomosy wrote:
Armor decrease, good. Better AA, good. Decrease in missles? Was this really an issue? Seems odd to have decreased missiles.
I have a couple hours in the heli 2! http://bf2s.com/player/43404229/
Last edited by ={PS}=Rage (2006-02-18 00:44:17)
planes are meant to support the helis and infantry but all they seem to do is kill 4 themselves
well i just came from a server and all i can say was i ripper them appart with the attack chopper all ya need is to know how to aim with it and avoid the aa and know where they are on the maps
pre patch in mastuur points galore =+ repairs
now no point s 1 round of mastuur 5 or 6 deaths + no points . just instant boom as you get out over the city . the mini guns are crap now , a mec guy on the petrol station aa point blank i overheated the gun on him then he blew us out of the sky . as for repairs the bh just blows up . while we like real life it is a game and everyone should have a fair go . 100% AA great i can get some kills on it , instead of using it as a command chair . so in real life helos go down with 1 misslie or whatever , you dont respawn in 15 secs in real life either
EAs motto is " its in the game " why put it in if your gonna take it right out
now no point s 1 round of mastuur 5 or 6 deaths + no points . just instant boom as you get out over the city . the mini guns are crap now , a mec guy on the petrol station aa point blank i overheated the gun on him then he blew us out of the sky . as for repairs the bh just blows up . while we like real life it is a game and everyone should have a fair go . 100% AA great i can get some kills on it , instead of using it as a command chair . so in real life helos go down with 1 misslie or whatever , you dont respawn in 15 secs in real life either
EAs motto is " its in the game " why put it in if your gonna take it right out
IMO a slight increase in the heli's hit points would even things up, like set between new patch and original settings. What do you people think?
I personally dont mind that the hit points have been redused for the attac-choppers, just the range for the tv-missile, does anybody know what the lock distance is for the aa?? It feels like the aa lock onto u before u are in range for the tvm or am i wrong??
Good point on the TV vs AA ranges. Should they be the same?Zorken wrote:
I personally dont mind that the hit points have been redused for the attac-choppers, just the range for the tv-missile, does anybody know what the lock distance is for the aa?? It feels like the aa lock onto u before u are in range for the tvm or am i wrong??
Yes if they arent already, gives the cobra a chance to clear the way for the bh on wake for an example...General_CoLin_Tassi wrote:
Good point on the TV vs AA ranges. Should they be the same?Zorken wrote:
I personally dont mind that the hit points have been redused for the attac-choppers, just the range for the tv-missile, does anybody know what the lock distance is for the aa?? It feels like the aa lock onto u before u are in range for the tvm or am i wrong??
The Clan I play for has Told all its pilots to start training cause its gonna be Infantry maps from here on in =\
Yes they were overnerfed.
Anyone else want to comment. Please feel free!
Yes I agree. Helis get the MOST raw deal ATM. AA murders HELIs now, not planes in case people haven't noticed. BH = screwed up. I landed smack in the middle of a lot of infantry, squished 2 and switched to f2 and wanted to start raining hell. Didn't get a SINGLE guy even though they were what.. 2 inches away?!
Not really my cuppa tea though.. I prefer something a lot faster, sleeker and stronger
Not really my cuppa tea though.. I prefer something a lot faster, sleeker and stronger
I managed to get a gold star on gulf of omen today as gunner in the havoc plus had a decent pilot. Still doing the business but .50's against a chopper, especially a bawkhawk is bit too overpowered. I shot down 3 heli's on wake by myself with the .50 jeep MG.
Last edited by General_CoLin_Tassi (2006-02-18 08:13:15)
Heli pilots, gunners and crew. Are you out there?
I like all this real life talk, a helicopter should be taken out by one tank shell.. lol
I think the TV missile on the Cobra is supposed to be The Raytheon BGM-71 TOW (Tube-launched, Optically tracked, Wire-guided missile ).
And the rockets are the Advanced Precision Kill Weapon System (APKWS), formerly known as Hydra, family of guided and unguided 70mm rockets.
That TOW missile has a range of more than 3000m and semi-automatic command-to-line- of-sight guidance. Try hitting a helicopter with a tank shell at 3000metres.
And If its supposed to be a HELLFIRE you'd be talking even more bollox. That's a fire-and-forget missle with an 8000m max range, The chopper wouldn't even be a pixel at that range.
It's a game, not real life. So yes, I want the chopper to last more that 5 secs against a .50 cal machine gun mounted on humvs and yes it's fair enough to say that a chopper will survive a tank shell IN GAME.
Cos in REAL LIFE, the TANK wouldn't even know the chopper was there before someone said, "what's that whooshing noise" BOOOOOOOOOOOM
So I agree, overnerfed
And if you haven't seen waht a cannon on a chopper does Watch This They don't even know that apache is even there.
I think the TV missile on the Cobra is supposed to be The Raytheon BGM-71 TOW (Tube-launched, Optically tracked, Wire-guided missile ).
And the rockets are the Advanced Precision Kill Weapon System (APKWS), formerly known as Hydra, family of guided and unguided 70mm rockets.
That TOW missile has a range of more than 3000m and semi-automatic command-to-line- of-sight guidance. Try hitting a helicopter with a tank shell at 3000metres.
And If its supposed to be a HELLFIRE you'd be talking even more bollox. That's a fire-and-forget missle with an 8000m max range, The chopper wouldn't even be a pixel at that range.
It's a game, not real life. So yes, I want the chopper to last more that 5 secs against a .50 cal machine gun mounted on humvs and yes it's fair enough to say that a chopper will survive a tank shell IN GAME.
Cos in REAL LIFE, the TANK wouldn't even know the chopper was there before someone said, "what's that whooshing noise" BOOOOOOOOOOOM
So I agree, overnerfed
And if you haven't seen waht a cannon on a chopper does Watch This They don't even know that apache is even there.
Yes, as often as i can, and since 1.2 (VERY often for some reason) im either the pilot or the gunner of a attac-chopper. If u plan ur attac route and have a the gunner/pilot on voip u can still do some damage to the other teams choppers/armor/AA's and inf.
This is how we played last night for an ex.
Setup a squad, pref a full one, dont have the squad-leader in the cobra for instance, have the rest manning a blackhawk to go in for the flag. Have them a safe distance away. Take ur time and dont cap flags with the cobra or any other attac-chopper, ur a sitting duck. Stay a distance away (300-350m)and about 100 ft up or higher depending on the surroundings, so ur gunner can take out AA/armor/choppers. Learn where the gunner-view of the tvm is so u can line up shots. When AA/armor is gone, call in the reinforcments in the BH to take the flag. Have a constant chat with the rest of the squad and have them "spot" any incoming threats as they appear.
Played as US on Dalian Plant last night and scored around 20 something kills against 3-4 deaths. Was only shot down/rammed by pilots on the other team. Not a single AA took us down. We allways took a wide left or right approach, never hit the center flag dead on cause u the have AA's on both side to take u down. Couldn't have done that without the f-35's chasing the J-10 all the time though. So a big thanks to the avengers in the sky.
This is how we played last night for an ex.
Setup a squad, pref a full one, dont have the squad-leader in the cobra for instance, have the rest manning a blackhawk to go in for the flag. Have them a safe distance away. Take ur time and dont cap flags with the cobra or any other attac-chopper, ur a sitting duck. Stay a distance away (300-350m)and about 100 ft up or higher depending on the surroundings, so ur gunner can take out AA/armor/choppers. Learn where the gunner-view of the tvm is so u can line up shots. When AA/armor is gone, call in the reinforcments in the BH to take the flag. Have a constant chat with the rest of the squad and have them "spot" any incoming threats as they appear.
Played as US on Dalian Plant last night and scored around 20 something kills against 3-4 deaths. Was only shot down/rammed by pilots on the other team. Not a single AA took us down. We allways took a wide left or right approach, never hit the center flag dead on cause u the have AA's on both side to take u down. Couldn't have done that without the f-35's chasing the J-10 all the time though. So a big thanks to the avengers in the sky.
My solution for the air power in the next patch(hopefully not wishfull thinking)?
1. The AA. Needs to be made slightly less effective than it is now plus sort the oil tower bug.
2. Keep the 8 missiles on the attack helicopters.
3. TV range set to 600m to help counter new patch AA. Would be happy though if its kept at its new range of 450m.
4. Set the hit points on the all helicopters at between new patch setting and patch v1.12 settings. The .50 calibre MG's on jeeps etc can take down a helicopter to quickly. Transport helicopters full of troops need more protection.
5. Jets. Keep the current hit point settings as long as the new AA is reduced slightly. Making pilots land for big repairs is good thing, a new challange for some and will help reduce constant flag bombing. The improved AA has reduced carrier rapings, which is a good thing.
IMHO, this is balance.
1. The AA. Needs to be made slightly less effective than it is now plus sort the oil tower bug.
2. Keep the 8 missiles on the attack helicopters.
3. TV range set to 600m to help counter new patch AA. Would be happy though if its kept at its new range of 450m.
4. Set the hit points on the all helicopters at between new patch setting and patch v1.12 settings. The .50 calibre MG's on jeeps etc can take down a helicopter to quickly. Transport helicopters full of troops need more protection.
5. Jets. Keep the current hit point settings as long as the new AA is reduced slightly. Making pilots land for big repairs is good thing, a new challange for some and will help reduce constant flag bombing. The improved AA has reduced carrier rapings, which is a good thing.
IMHO, this is balance.
Any views?
Not to bad idea General. TV-Rockets should have the same range as the SAMs for balnces sake. Hitpoints are quite okay (maybe a little too low, but just a little). But i think that two or max. three ERYX/SRAW round should take down any choper - especially if hit in the tail. Maybe reduce the MG damage (those ara a bit overpowerded these days since they can be found en masse on the battlefield - mounted on jeeps and tanks, carried by infatry). Mabe DICE didn't get the (choper-)armour concept right, it seems a bit like it's only hitpoints based (exept that anti tank rounds penetrate the cockpits armour). A MG deals a bit too much damage agaisnt helos (this however is not an AA problem but the problem of the improved MG accuracy on the longer ranges). Note: read (*)
On practical experience: If the USMC team on Wake is somewhat coordianted or just knows who needs what to be effective they just destroy the AA emplacements with bombs, afterwards come the cobras to take out tanks and FAVs, followed by the grunts in BH and RIBs to cap the falgs. I have played on wake just yesterday and after minute 5 into the game have never seen a working AA position able to fight off the jets for longer some seconds. Since it takes 3 stinger hits now which require you to reload once the "ueber"-AA didn't stand a chance against teh pro-pilots. It seemed to us (the chinese team) that nothing had changed exept that you nowadays can scare away Cobras and - if they are too careless - can shoot them down with some skill with the MG or AT rockets. Our loss was mostly to blame on our jet pilots who (instead of shooting down/harassing enemy aircraft fell to temptation of bombing enemy infantry for easy points. And after our jet was stolen it was like in the old days - being raped by the bombers and cobras without end.
*: MG needed to be improved on short distances but now is over accurate on long distances. If the gun is not mounted on a tripod (as in game) it should definitly not allow you to take long range shots with a precison as it is now. Who ever has fired a MG in RL (as I have) knows that in use on bibods a light MG can only mow down attacking infatry on medium ranges (what it was invented for in the first case) or achieve a supressing effect. For ragnes over 300m you need a heavy tripod mount that requires an extra man to carry and needs to be set up in a fixed postion. The ring mount on vehicles would perform better tahn the bipod but doesn't allow for too high accuracy either.
On practical experience: If the USMC team on Wake is somewhat coordianted or just knows who needs what to be effective they just destroy the AA emplacements with bombs, afterwards come the cobras to take out tanks and FAVs, followed by the grunts in BH and RIBs to cap the falgs. I have played on wake just yesterday and after minute 5 into the game have never seen a working AA position able to fight off the jets for longer some seconds. Since it takes 3 stinger hits now which require you to reload once the "ueber"-AA didn't stand a chance against teh pro-pilots. It seemed to us (the chinese team) that nothing had changed exept that you nowadays can scare away Cobras and - if they are too careless - can shoot them down with some skill with the MG or AT rockets. Our loss was mostly to blame on our jet pilots who (instead of shooting down/harassing enemy aircraft fell to temptation of bombing enemy infantry for easy points. And after our jet was stolen it was like in the old days - being raped by the bombers and cobras without end.
*: MG needed to be improved on short distances but now is over accurate on long distances. If the gun is not mounted on a tripod (as in game) it should definitly not allow you to take long range shots with a precison as it is now. Who ever has fired a MG in RL (as I have) knows that in use on bibods a light MG can only mow down attacking infatry on medium ranges (what it was invented for in the first case) or achieve a supressing effect. For ragnes over 300m you need a heavy tripod mount that requires an extra man to carry and needs to be set up in a fixed postion. The ring mount on vehicles would perform better tahn the bipod but doesn't allow for too high accuracy either.