Moo? Si!
Tall, Dark, Antlered
+39|6555|817---->907

IRONCHEF wrote:

Wow, like clockwork.  Out with the competent non-Bush friendly ideology, and in with the Bush crony.  At least Patraeus is qualified....though still a crony/tool.

Why not just admit that Fallon was pulled?  Why the secrecy when it's so obvious he was made to step down.  Oh, because there's only 9 months left that the Iran attack can still happen.

***IRONCHEF PROPHECY***

I prophesy that by October, some conjured reports will appear that Iran is doing underground nuclear bomb testing qualifying a response from the US (since it's our job alone to stop nuclear proliferation).

orrrrrr.....

A false provocation from Iranian gunboats will start a quick escalation of retaliatory attacks between Iran and the US carrier groups in the St of Hormuz.


Orrrrr.......

The US will secretly bomb a bunch of people (including their own troops) and blame it on Iran prompting a quick, UN-free retaliatory strike.




Ok, in short, I prophesy that with Patraeus where Bush and Cheney want him, some sort of false provocation will occur and we'll be rocking and rolling with Iran...and I give a 50% chance that Bush/Cheney will somehow engineer some sort of executive privilege or war powers BS that will falesly negate or postpone the november elections or January inauguration.

Oh yes, mark my words..it will happen.  it will.

S3v3N wrote:

I can't tell if you're talking out your ass or being serious.

FEOS wrote:

Wow. Just...wow.

SgtSlauther wrote:

lol
what they said.
FEOS
Bellicose Yankee Air Pirate
+1,182|6837|'Murka

IRONCHEF wrote:

FEOS wrote:

IRONCHEF wrote:

Dude, Gates even said he's leaving partly because of the perception that he's against Bush's aggressiveness against Iran.  Google a little.
After you Google, read a little. Or watch videos of Gates a little.

Then put aside your conspiracy theories and attempt some rational thought a little.
http://thinkprogress.org/2008/03/11/fallon-resigns/

Read and chill dude.  There's even a video here of Gates saying WHY HE IS RESIGNING.  Sure it's linked from a liberal blog but I assure you it's not Mike Moore doing puppets and out of context screen captures imitating Gates.
Funny, that's the same news conference in the video available from the link I provided in the OP. Yes, Gates explained why the guy resigned. Listen carefully and you may notice the actual reason.
“Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.”
― Albert Einstein

Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular
Spearhead
Gulf coast redneck hippy
+731|7116|Tampa Bay Florida

FEOS wrote:

IRONCHEF wrote:

FEOS wrote:


After you Google, read a little. Or watch videos of Gates a little.

Then put aside your conspiracy theories and attempt some rational thought a little.
http://thinkprogress.org/2008/03/11/fallon-resigns/

Read and chill dude.  There's even a video here of Gates saying WHY HE IS RESIGNING.  Sure it's linked from a liberal blog but I assure you it's not Mike Moore doing puppets and out of context screen captures imitating Gates.
Funny, that's the same news conference in the video available from the link I provided in the OP. Yes, Gates explained why the guy resigned. Listen carefully and you may notice the actual reason.
I think ironchef is saying there are hidden motives.  I dont know for sure.
IRONCHEF
Member
+385|6917|Northern California
yes, there's the press released version of retirements..as there always is, and there's the real versions.  it doesn't take rocket science to see this.  the esquire article has a pretty defining comment pertaining to this.
Ryan
Member
+1,230|7269|Alberta, Canada

Isn't Petraeus the commander of the 101st Airborne Division?
I read a book involving him, seems like a good guy to take the position.
Kmar
Truth is my Bitch
+5,695|7027|132 and Bush

IRONCHEF wrote:

I'm sorry, can any of you give a reason why Fallon was "retired?"  Bush hired with giving him praise and citations of his qualifications.  Then after Fallon (and countless other qualified persons) said Iran was no good, he yanks him.

And how is this DNC material?  This is common sense and it's precedented with 8 years of this BS.  Seriously, the White House is ALONE in the WHOLE WORLD on invading Iran.  US Intelligence is against it, highly decorated military both retired and active have voiced against it..fallon among them.  It's not even a debate that the White House is trying to drum up more war...it's what they do, and they can't do it with non-cronies.
The US is not alone in addressing Iran. Our policy with dealing with Iran has been inclusive and unilateral.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/03/03/world … ref=slogin

The IAEA now wants Iran to prove it isn’t developing weapons, and this time the Europeans have taken the lead in demanding answers.

Senior British diplomat:Contrary to NIE, no reason to believe Iran has suspended nuclear weapons program.
Foreign ministers of the six countries - the U.S., Russia, China, Britain, France and Germany - issued a joint statement after Monday's council vote reaffirming their dual-track approach: They would improve a package of economic incentives and political rewards offered in June 2006 if Iran suspends enrichment, but would push for even more sanctions if Tehran continued its defiance.
Russia Pushes Iran To Stop Enrichment

Britain's ambassador to the IAEA, Simon Smith, said the material presented to the board of governors on Monday contained information about possible weapons work beyond that date.

Six powers agree on draft Iran sanctions

EU powers challenge Iran nuclear answers to IAEA

As far as Fallon, some have been saying he was on his way out for months now and it has nothing to do with Iran.
In Fact:
The Pentagon sharks are circling CENTCOM Commander Adm. William “Fox” Fallon for a magazine interview in which he appears to openly criticize President Bush on the administration’s Iran policy. The very public comments raised speculation Fallon would either volunteer or be forced to resign…

    Still, the gruff, outspoken CENTCOM commander has his detractors. “How many times can [Fallon] get away with these kinds of remarks,” before he’s forced out the door, asked one senior Pentagon official. The reason may be that on Iran, Gates and many senior military officials happen to agree with Fallon.

    Gates has said publicly and privately that under current conditions he’s opposed to war with Iran. Joint Chiefs Chairman Adm. Mike Mullen is also against it. In fact, almost every senior military officer we’ve talked to is against launching military strikes against Iran, because as one senior official told us, “then what do you do?”
http://fieldnotes.msnbc.msn.com/archive … 54424.aspx
Xbone Stormsurgezz
IRONCHEF
Member
+385|6917|Northern California

Kmarion wrote:

The US is not alone in addressing Iran. Our policy with dealing with Iran has been inclusive and unilateral.
Sorry, I meant being aggressive towards Iran militarily.  I don't see other foreign naval groups in the persian gulf provoking war with them.  Sanctions is about it, and that's not even happening now..for the second time.
Kmar
Truth is my Bitch
+5,695|7027|132 and Bush

IRONCHEF wrote:

Kmarion wrote:

The US is not alone in addressing Iran. Our policy with dealing with Iran has been inclusive and unilateral.
Sorry, I meant being aggressive towards Iran militarily.  I don't see other foreign naval groups in the persian gulf provoking war with them.  Sanctions is about it, and that's not even happening now..for the second time.
Then why would the Royal Navy be taken into custody?... or the Australian navy attempted seizure?
Xbone Stormsurgezz
ATG
Banned
+5,233|6955|Global Command
generals usually resign right before presidents do really stupid things, like start wars.
Kmar
Truth is my Bitch
+5,695|7027|132 and Bush

ATG wrote:

generals usually resign right before presidents do really stupid things, like start wars.
Not if you are Wesley Clarke or Stormin Norman. Wars provide opportunity for military commanders to make a name for themselves.
Xbone Stormsurgezz
ATG
Banned
+5,233|6955|Global Command

Kmarion wrote:

ATG wrote:

generals usually resign right before presidents do really stupid things, like start wars.
Not if you are Wesley Clarke or Stormin Norman. Wars provide opportunity for military commanders to make a name for themselves.
Maybe this general knows this will be a stupider war than the others.
FEOS
Bellicose Yankee Air Pirate
+1,182|6837|'Murka

IRONCHEF wrote:

Kmarion wrote:

The US is not alone in addressing Iran. Our policy with dealing with Iran has been inclusive and unilateral.
Sorry, I meant being aggressive towards Iran militarily.  I don't see other foreign naval groups in the persian gulf provoking war with them.  Sanctions is about it, and that's not even happening now..for the second time.
You don't see US naval groups in the PG "provoking war with Iran" either.
“Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.”
― Albert Einstein

Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular
FEOS
Bellicose Yankee Air Pirate
+1,182|6837|'Murka

Ryan wrote:

Isn't Petraeus the commander of the 101st Airborne Division?
I read a book involving him, seems like a good guy to take the position.
He is Commanding General of Multi-National Forces Iraq (MNF-I). 101st was a couple of commands ago.
“Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.”
― Albert Einstein

Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular
Kmar
Truth is my Bitch
+5,695|7027|132 and Bush

ATG wrote:

Kmarion wrote:

ATG wrote:

generals usually resign right before presidents do really stupid things, like start wars.
Not if you are Wesley Clarke or Stormin Norman. Wars provide opportunity for military commanders to make a name for themselves.
Maybe this general knows this will be a stupider war than the others.
He does, and so does the Joint Chiefs of staff (The ones who actually advise the President).
Xbone Stormsurgezz
Kmar
Truth is my Bitch
+5,695|7027|132 and Bush

FEOS wrote:

Ryan wrote:

Isn't Petraeus the commander of the 101st Airborne Division?
I read a book involving him, seems like a good guy to take the position.
He is Commanding General of Multi-National Forces Iraq (MNF-I). 101st was a couple of commands ago.
http://www.mnf-iraq.com/ ftr.
Xbone Stormsurgezz
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,822|6532|eXtreme to the maX
I'm going to go with the conspiracy theory on this one.

FEOS wrote:

You don't see US naval groups in the PG "provoking war with Iran" either.
Uhhh Iranian Airbus anyone?

Last edited by Dilbert_X (2008-03-12 00:27:20)

Fuck Israel
FEOS
Bellicose Yankee Air Pirate
+1,182|6837|'Murka

Dilbert_X wrote:

I'm going to go with the conspiracy theory on this one.
Excuse me while I control my shock.

Dilbert_X wrote:

FEOS wrote:

You don't see US naval groups in the PG "provoking war with Iran" either.
Uhhh Iranian Airbus anyone?
Uhhh...more than twenty years ago anyone?
“Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.”
― Albert Einstein

Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,822|6532|eXtreme to the maX
Uhhh...more than twenty years ago anyone?
Uhhh.... So the US has been spoiling for fights with Iraq and Iran for the last 20 years - Including shooting down a civilian airliner with I can't remember how many civilians on board.
Oh and remember the proxy US-Iran war fought by Iraq?
Fuck Israel
FEOS
Bellicose Yankee Air Pirate
+1,182|6837|'Murka

Dilbert_X wrote:

Uhhh...more than twenty years ago anyone?
Uhhh.... So the US has been spoiling for fights with Iraq and Iran for the last 20 years - Including shooting down a civilian airliner with I can't remember how many civilians on board.
Oh and remember the proxy US-Iran war fought by Iraq?
Ok. I will say it.

One incident.

19 years ago (Jul 1988).

You're doing it again. Taking a single incident out of context and extrapolating it to fit your view.

The Vincennes shooting down an Iranian airliner in  has fuck all to do with the OP or even the comment made about naval groups in the PG.
“Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.”
― Albert Einstein

Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,822|6532|eXtreme to the maX
The Vincennes shooting down an Iranian airliner in  has fuck all to do with the OP or even the comment made about naval groups in the PG.
Bollocks, various US naval groups have been steaming up and down the Persian Gulf trying to provoke Iran for years.
And its related to the OP, and posts by others on this thread on naval groups, since it relates to the belligerent US position towards Iran over at least the last 20 years and a direct attack by a US naval group in the Persian Gulf on Iranian civilians.

You're doing it again. Taking a single incident out of context and extrapolating it to fit your view.
The Iran-Iraq war was a single incident - sure about that? Could you remind me which side the US armed and funded?

An Anti-Iran War General has been replaced by a Pro-Iran War General, it seems obvious enough.

Last edited by Dilbert_X (2008-03-12 02:34:46)

Fuck Israel
FEOS
Bellicose Yankee Air Pirate
+1,182|6837|'Murka

Dilbert_X wrote:

Bollocks, various US naval groups have been steaming up and down the Persian Gulf trying to provoke Iran for years.
And its related to the OP, and posts by others on this thread on naval groups, since it relates to the belligerent US position towards Iran over at least the last 20 years and a direct attack by a US naval group in the Persian Gulf on Iranian civilians.
Bollocks. You act as if the ONLY navy to send ships into the PG is the US Navy.

It has nothing to do with the OP, no matter how much you try to rationalize it. If you want to talk about current events and current US policy toward Iran vis a vis shipping in the Gulf, go for it. But all you can come up with is a tragic accident from 20 years ago.

Dilbert_X wrote:

You're doing it again. Taking a single incident out of context and extrapolating it to fit your view.
The Iran-Iraq war was a single incident - sure about that? Could you remind me which side the USWest armed and funded?

An Anti-Iran War General has been replaced by a Pro-Iran War General, it seems obvious enough.
I was talking about the Vincennes incident, not the Iran-Iraq war. But I went ahead and corrected your statement anyway.

You know who Fallon's replacement is? Wow. You're certainly tied in to the upper tiers of the US government. Must be someone nobody's heard of, since you know so certainly that it's a pro-Iran War guy...being's how there aren't any of those in a position to replace Fallon.
“Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.”
― Albert Einstein

Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,822|6532|eXtreme to the maX
Did you read the article in the OP?
"It described Fallon as a lone voice against taking military action to stop the Iranian nuclear program."
I'll stick my neck out here and say the next guy will be more pro-war with Iran than Fallon was - especially as it seems he was retired on the basis of this view.

You don't see US naval groups in the PG "provoking war with Iran" either.
I simply pointed out that US naval groups in the Persian Gulf DO try to provoke war with Iran - why do you get so uptight when your errors are corrected?
Tragic accident my arse! The Vincennes was trying to provoke trouble.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran_Air_Flight_655
Three years after the incident, Admiral William J. Crowe admitted on American television show Nightline that the Vincennes was inside Iranian territorial waters when it launched the missiles.[28] This contradicted earlier Navy statements.

Commander David Carlson, commanding officer of the USS Sides, the warship stationed near to the Vincennes at the time of the incident, is reported (Fisk, 2005) to have said that the destruction of the aircraft "marked the horrifying climax to Captain Rogers' aggressiveness, first seen four weeks ago." His comment referred to incidents on June 2, when Rogers had sailed the Vincennes too close to an Iranian frigate undertaking a lawful search of a bulk carrier, launched a helicopter within 2-3 miles (3.2-4.8 km) of an Iranian small craft despite rules of engagement requiring a four-mile (6.4 km) separation, and opened fire on a number of small Iranian military boats. Of those incidents, Carlson commented, "Why do you want an Aegis cruiser out there shooting up boats? It wasn't a smart thing to do." He also said of Iranian forces he'd encountered in the area a month prior to the incident were "...pointedly non-threatening" and professional.[29] At the time of Rogers' announcement to higher command that he was going to shoot down the plane, Carlson is reported (Fisk, 2005) to have been thunderstruck: "I said to folks around me, 'Why, what the hell is he doing?' I went through the drill again. F-14. He’s climbing. By now this damn thing is at 7,000 feet." However, Carlson thought the Vincennes might have more information, and was unaware that Rogers had been wrongly informed that the plane was diving.

Craig, Morales & Oliver, in a slide presentation published in M.I.T.'s Spring 2004 Aeronautics & Astronautics, as the "USS Vincennes Incident," commented that Captain Rogers had "an undeniable and unequivocal tendency towards what I call 'picking a fight.'"
Fuck Israel
FEOS
Bellicose Yankee Air Pirate
+1,182|6837|'Murka

Dilbert_X wrote:

Did you read the article in the OP?
"It described Fallon as a lone voice against taking military action to stop the Iranian nuclear program."
I'll stick my neck out here and say the next guy will be more pro-war with Iran than Fallon was - especially as it seems he was retired on the basis of this view.
Yes, I read it. And I watched the video...did you?

That description you mention is from the Esquire article. The content of that article, which Fallon neither agreed with nor authorized (outside of his own responses to the author) is the crux of the issue. Fallon feels it portrays an inaccurate picture of his position with regard to Iran, specifically where he stands with regard to the Administration's policies toward Iran. While his position is no different than Gates', Mullen's <insert military leader's name here>, the article portrays him as a lone wolf, battling the Administration. Fallon feels that, while inaccurate, only serves to introduce conflict where none exists. One unfortunate reality of the business is that the perception of a problem--regardless of its validity--is a problem in and of itself. Fallon is removing that perception from the equation.

There's no one on deck who is "pro-war" as you put it.

Dilbert_X wrote:

You don't see US naval groups in the PG "provoking war with Iran" either.
I simply pointed out that US naval groups in the Persian Gulf DO try to provoke war with Iran - why do you get so uptight when your errors are corrected?
Tragic accident my arse! The Vincennes was trying to provoke trouble.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran_Air_Flight_655
I get "uptight" when people make broad-brush defamatory statements with little to no evidence to support those statements. You have no proof--even circumstantial--that ANYONE is trying to provoke ANYTHING with Iran. In fact, the FACTS support the exact opposite. Yet you latch on to obscure events, apply questionable logic, and then try to make it sound like the conclusion you reached is inevitable.

For example, being in territorial waters of another country while transiting the Straits of Hormuz is not "provocative" or an attempt to cause trouble--it is a byproduct of the geography of the area. Yet you try to make it sound as if the Vincennes purposefully went into Iranian waters, hoping that Iran would attack it. The article you so carefully quoted states at the end that the Vincennes' commander had been misinformed about whether the plane was climbing or diving...a critical piece of the decision on whether it was a threatening or non-threatening profile. Regardless, it's obvious that the Vincennes' commander was acting recklessly--on his own--without orders from higher up to behave that way. So, if he's acting alone, doing stupid shit (a la other, similar "analysis" you've done), how can that possibly be construed as "the US provoking" anything with Iran? It was one ship's commander who made a horrible mistake, partially due to his own reckless behavior. So yeah...tragic accident. Tragic on many levels.

So no error on my part to correct.
“Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.”
― Albert Einstein

Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,822|6532|eXtreme to the maX
Fallon feels it portrays an inaccurate picture of his position with regard to Iran, specifically where he stands with regard to the Administration's policies toward Iran.
He's a bit of a pussy to resign over comments which he denies don't you think?
Do all your Generals resign when someone misquotes them?

The article you so carefully quoted states at the end that the Vincennes' commander had been misinformed about whether the plane was climbing or diving...a critical piece of the decision on whether it was a threatening or non-threatening profile
Cover story

I get "uptight" when people make broad-brush defamatory statements with little to no evidence to support those statements.
Hey me too eg
You don't see US naval groups in the PG "provoking war with Iran" either.
There's no one on deck who is "pro-war" as you put it.
Lets hope you're right - I expect they have their hands full preventing Ironchef's prophesy and managing this dangerous retard.
https://i274.photobucket.com/albums/jj256/Dilbert_X/110207-Wildfire.jpg

Cartoon by Rob Rogers, all sorts of good stuff at http://www.robrogers.com/

Last edited by Dilbert_X (2008-03-13 00:22:52)

Fuck Israel
FEOS
Bellicose Yankee Air Pirate
+1,182|6837|'Murka

Dilbert_X wrote:

Fallon feels it portrays an inaccurate picture of his position with regard to Iran, specifically where he stands with regard to the Administration's policies toward Iran.
He's a bit of a pussy to resign over comments which he denies don't you think?
Do all your Generals resign when someone misquotes them?
It's called integrity. Look it up.

Dilbert_X wrote:

The article you so carefully quoted states at the end that the Vincennes' commander had been misinformed about whether the plane was climbing or diving...a critical piece of the decision on whether it was a threatening or non-threatening profile
Cover story
Sure. Because if it were true, it would contradict your theory.

Dilbert_X wrote:

I get "uptight" when people make broad-brush defamatory statements with little to no evidence to support those statements.
Hey me too eg
You don't see US naval groups in the PG "provoking war with Iran" either.
There's no one on deck who is "pro-war" as you put it.
What's defamatory or broad-brush about facts?

Oh. It's because they don't align with your theory. nvm.

Dilbert_X wrote:

Lets hope you're right - I expect they have their hands full preventing Ironchef's prophesy and managing this dangerous retard.
No need for hope.
“Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.”
― Albert Einstein

Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular

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