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2008-03-11 03:53:17
sergeriver
Cowboy from Hell
+1,928|6967|Argentina
These are a few things I find kinda hypocrite about some Christians, not all.

1-The Vatican speaks of the 7 new mortal sins, yet they don't mention child abuse.  I guess being concerned about the environment is PC and gives the Catholic Church good PR.  But priests molesting and/or abusing children is not a concern for them.

2-Many Catholic Christians constantly point their fingers at Islam and claim that moderate Muslims should speak out against the extremists.  I wonder how many of them speak out against these priests.  I guess it wouldn't look ok for their Church to admit such thing.

3-Almost everyMany Christians out there are against homosexuality.  Isn't this behaviour the opposite to the teachings of Jesus?  If I'm not wrong Jesus advocated to be tolerant to others and yet most Christians are against gays having the same rights than us because "it's not natural".

4--Almost everyMany Christians around the World are against abortion, that's a fact.  In the US many Evangelical Conservatives support the death penalty and the war in Iraq.  Isn't this a double standard?

Edit: fixed points 3 and 4, words almost every replaced by many.  My apologies for generalizing there.

Last edited by sergeriver (2008-03-11 05:40:33)

2008-03-11 03:55:31
max
Vela Incident
+1,652|6777|NYC / Hamburg

/agree
once upon a midnight dreary, while i pron surfed, weak and weary, over many a strange and spurious site of ' hot  xxx galore'. While i clicked my fav'rite bookmark, suddenly there came a warning, and my heart was filled with mourning, mourning for my dear amour, " 'Tis not possible!", i muttered, " give me back my free hardcore!"..... quoth the server, 404.
2008-03-11 03:56:13
Spark
liquid fluoride thorium reactor
+874|6884|Canberra, AUS
All religions are hypocritical to some regards. It's mostly because religions incorporate all kinds of viewpoints which strive for attention. And when they contradict...
The paradox is only a conflict between reality and your feeling what reality ought to be.
~ Richard Feynman
2008-03-11 03:56:38
d4rkph03n1x
Member
+131|6959

sergeriver wrote:

These are a few things I find kinda hypocrite about some Christians, not all.

1-The Vatican speaks of the 7 new mortal sins, yet they don't mention child abuse.  I guess being concerned about the environment is PC and gives the Catholic Church good PR.  But priests molesting and/or abusing children is not a concern for them.

2-Many Catholic Christians constantly point their fingers at Islam and claim that moderate Muslims should speak out against the extremists.  I wonder how many of them speak out against these priests.  I guess it wouldn't look ok for their Church to admit such thing.

3-Almost every Christian out there is against homosexuality.  Isn't this behaviour the opposite to the teachings of Jesus?  If I'm not wrong Jesus advocated to be tolerant to others and yet most Christians are against gays having the same rights than us because "it's not natural".

4-Almost every Christian around the World is against abortion, that's a fact.  In the US many Evangelical Conservatives support the death penalty and the war in Iraq.  Isn't this a double standard?
Okay, first point is pretty hard hitting, but where are your opinions founded from? Watercooler chat? Homosexuality is frowned upon and I don't believe Jesus supported/would have supported homosexuality. I'm not against abortion, but i'm not the most devoted christian either.  How is it a double standard? Abortion and the death penalty are not related in anyway or in any situation. I'm sorry, but most of your argument is flawed.
2008-03-11 04:01:54
sergeriver
Cowboy from Hell
+1,928|6967|Argentina

d4rkph03n1x wrote:

sergeriver wrote:

These are a few things I find kinda hypocrite about some Christians, not all.

1-The Vatican speaks of the 7 new mortal sins, yet they don't mention child abuse.  I guess being concerned about the environment is PC and gives the Catholic Church good PR.  But priests molesting and/or abusing children is not a concern for them.

2-Many Catholic Christians constantly point their fingers at Islam and claim that moderate Muslims should speak out against the extremists.  I wonder how many of them speak out against these priests.  I guess it wouldn't look ok for their Church to admit such thing.

3-Almost every Christian out there is against homosexuality.  Isn't this behaviour the opposite to the teachings of Jesus?  If I'm not wrong Jesus advocated to be tolerant to others and yet most Christians are against gays having the same rights than us because "it's not natural".

4-Almost every Christian around the World is against abortion, that's a fact.  In the US many Evangelical Conservatives support the death penalty and the war in Iraq.  Isn't this a double standard?
Okay, first point is pretty hard hitting, but where are your opinions founded from? Watercooler chat? Homosexuality is frowned upon and I don't believe Jesus supported/would have supported homosexuality. I'm not against abortion, but i'm not the most devoted christian either.  How is it a double standard? Abortion and the death penalty are not related in anyway or in any situation. I'm sorry, but most of your argument is flawed.
I base my opinion on what I see, don't need a wiki link for this.  Post an evidence where Jesus condemned homosexuality.  And being against abortion and supporting death penalty is a double standard IMO.  You can't say this life is more valuable than this other because you are not God.  Isn't God the only one who can take a life?

Edit: spelling.

Last edited by sergeriver (2008-03-11 04:02:41)

2008-03-11 04:05:15
^*AlphA*^
F*ckers
+3,135|6948|The Hague, Netherlands

sergeriver wrote:

d4rkph03n1x wrote:

sergeriver wrote:

These are a few things I find kinda hypocrite about some Christians, not all.

1-The Vatican speaks of the 7 new mortal sins, yet they don't mention child abuse.  I guess being concerned about the environment is PC and gives the Catholic Church good PR.  But priests molesting and/or abusing children is not a concern for them.

2-Many Catholic Christians constantly point their fingers at Islam and claim that moderate Muslims should speak out against the extremists.  I wonder how many of them speak out against these priests.  I guess it wouldn't look ok for their Church to admit such thing.

3-Almost every Christian out there is against homosexuality.  Isn't this behaviour the opposite to the teachings of Jesus?  If I'm not wrong Jesus advocated to be tolerant to others and yet most Christians are against gays having the same rights than us because "it's not natural".

4-Almost every Christian around the World is against abortion, that's a fact.  In the US many Evangelical Conservatives support the death penalty and the war in Iraq.  Isn't this a double standard?
Okay, first point is pretty hard hitting, but where are your opinions founded from? Watercooler chat? Homosexuality is frowned upon and I don't believe Jesus supported/would have supported homosexuality. I'm not against abortion, but i'm not the most devoted christian either.  How is it a double standard? Abortion and the death penalty are not related in anyway or in any situation. I'm sorry, but most of your argument is flawed.
I base my opinion on what I see, don't need a wiki link for this.  Post an evidence where Jesus condemned homosexuality.  And being against abortion and supporting death penalty is a double standard IMO.  You can't say this life is more valuable than this other because you are not God.  Isn't God the only one who can take a life?

Edit: spelling.
+ didn't god create all? so also gays... and Jesus doesn't he follow god?
https://bf3s.com/sigs/36eac2cb6af70a43508fd8d1c93d3201f4e23435.png
2008-03-11 04:16:02
some_random_panda
Flamesuit essential
+454|6600

sergeriver wrote:

These are a few things I find kinda hypocrite about some Christians, not all.

1-The Vatican speaks of the 7 new mortal sins, yet they don't mention child abuse.  I guess being concerned about the environment is PC and gives the Catholic Church good PR.  But priests molesting and/or abusing children is not a concern for them.

2-Many Catholic Christians constantly point their fingers at Islam and claim that moderate Muslims should speak out against the extremists.  I wonder how many of them speak out against these priests.  I guess it wouldn't look ok for their Church to admit such thing.

3-Almost every Christian out there is against homosexuality.  Isn't this behaviour the opposite to the teachings of Jesus?  If I'm not wrong Jesus advocated to be tolerant to others and yet most Christians are against gays having the same rights than us because "it's not natural".

4-Almost every Christian around the World is against abortion, that's a fact.  In the US many Evangelical Conservatives support the death penalty and the war in Iraq.  Isn't this a double standard?
1.  That's Catholic - the other branches don't have a pope or a Vatican (for example, I'm Baptist).  Nevertheless, if you go to many Christian organisations in our city (I do volunteer work for one), you'll find that funding counselling and assisting "families in danger" is a major priority.

2.  I haven't actually "pointed my finger" against Muslims, or heard anyone say that (save in the newspaper, where there's a sense of anonymity).  I know you said Catholics, but it seems to apply more widely.

3.  Leviticus 18:22
     Leviticus 20
     Romans 1:18-32
     1 Corinthians 6:9-11
     1 Timothy 1:9-11
     I'd say it's rather unreasonable to put forward a viewpoint like that without viewing the entire context, including the era, society at the time, attitudes in general to homosexuals, hygiene reasons, established laws, etc.

4.  I'm against abortion.  I'm also against the death penalty.  I'm also against all wars, no matter where or whom they're against.

Last edited by some_random_panda (2008-03-11 04:18:17)

2008-03-11 04:22:42
unnamednewbie13
Moderator
+2,053|6981|PNW

sergeriver wrote:

4-Almost every Christian around the World is against abortion, that's a fact.  In the US many Evangelical Conservatives support the death penalty and the war in Iraq.  Isn't this a double standard?
4. ...oh, here we go again. Of course abortion is the same as casualties of war and putting down unrepentant, violent criminals! Why didn't we think of that! :foreheadslap:
2008-03-11 04:24:02
some_random_panda
Flamesuit essential
+454|6600

Personally, I'd say solitary confinement for the rest of your life or the chance of getting raped by some other criminal is a worse punishment than death.
2008-03-11 04:26:43
unnamednewbie13
Moderator
+2,053|6981|PNW

some_random_panda wrote:

Personally, I'd say solitary confinement for the rest of your life or the chance of getting raped by some other criminal is a worse punishment than death.
Unless they're the ones doing the raping...

Besides which, isn't torture supposed to be a bad thing?

Last edited by unnamednewbie13 (2008-03-11 04:27:26)

2008-03-11 04:34:54
madmurre
I suspect something is amiss
+117|6920|Sweden

d4rkph03n1x wrote:

Homosexuality is frowned upon and I don't believe Jesus supported/would have supported homosexuality.
Well watching the illustrations made of Jesus i´m sure he would accept homosexuality and welcome them as brothers. He was surrounded by 13 men which he called apprentices hmmm makes me wonder what else he teached them.
2008-03-11 04:43:12
Tehremos
Parcel of ol' Crams
+128|6617|Somersetshire

sergeriver wrote:

These are a few things I find kinda hypocrite about some Christians, not all.

1-The Vatican speaks of the 7 new mortal sins, yet they don't mention child abuse.  I guess being concerned about the environment is PC and gives the Catholic Church good PR.  But priests molesting and/or abusing children is not a concern for them.

2-Many Catholic Christians constantly point their fingers at Islam and claim that moderate Muslims should speak out against the extremists.  I wonder how many of them speak out against these priests.  I guess it wouldn't look ok for their Church to admit such thing.

3-Almost every Christian out there is against homosexuality.  Isn't this behaviour the opposite to the teachings of Jesus?  If I'm not wrong Jesus advocated to be tolerant to others and yet most Christians are against gays having the same rights than us because "it's not natural".

4-Almost every Christian around the World is against abortion, that's a fact.  In the US many Evangelical Conservatives support the death penalty and the war in Iraq.  Isn't this a double standard?
(i haven't read others post, I read yours and felt compelled to reply)

1.I doubt it isn't a concern, because you are being very specific, you are talking about child abuse by priests, now I actually doubt that "child abuse by priests" is an actual concern simply because it rarely happens, yes when it does, the incident is famous, but it rarely happens, this would be like the police being highly concerned with with OAP's beating teens to death, now it can happen, but do you think the police should be concerned, we all know that if it did happen it would be on every newspaper.


2. You should ask a priest, they don't see and nor do I see priests molesting children like Islam jihad's, you are comparing two very different things. When a priest molests, he/she isn't doing it because of their faith. Whereas a jihad believes his/her god wants them to do it. You are comparing two very different things, to show you this I will use an example. If I was to compare Pepsi Max with a Blue tit(A blue tit is a bird) this would be along the same logical sense as yours.

3. I know many Christians, I was one and non of them were against homosexuality, I actually know two priests (One who is also a teacher, hence how I know her) who are gay themselves. The majority of Christians don't really care whether you are gay or not, fact. Yes they don't personally like homosexuality, but you are saying that "Almost every Christian out there is against homosexuality." when they aren't against others being gay.

4. The death penalty and abortion are once again two different topics, personally I am for abortion if the mother/father doesn't want and I am against the death penalty. Now then, Christians see abortion as wrong because they believe that every sperm and egg conjoined is a person from when they joined. Hence that they believe you are killing a child when you are getting an abortion. The death penalty is about stopping "bad" men, so I can see why they can be for the death penalty but against abortion.

I am for the war in Iraq, but not because we are killing Islamic people, because we are trying to help them get order in their country (But I was against going to war). But if we left right now, Iraq would be in a worse state then when we got there.
I want to know if you have asked many Christians why they are pro Iraq war.

"Almost every Christian around the World is against abortion, that's a fact." well your fact is false. Where is your source, because wherever and whatever it is, your source is wrong.
2008-03-11 04:47:17
some_random_panda
Flamesuit essential
+454|6600

unnamednewbie13 wrote:

some_random_panda wrote:

Personally, I'd say solitary confinement for the rest of your life or the chance of getting raped by some other criminal is a worse punishment than death.
Unless they're the ones doing the raping...

Besides which, isn't torture supposed to be a bad thing?
Until waterboarding was endorsed, yes.

On torture, some call it "extended contemplation period."   Though I'm not too sure how beneficial it is.
2008-03-11 04:47:21
Tehremos
Parcel of ol' Crams
+128|6617|Somersetshire
well i read others post and they have seen that your OP is flawed as well

What religion are you?
You talk like you were a Christian, but got abused by a priest, it actually sounds like you have a personal vendetta against priests
2008-03-11 04:56:36
sergeriver
Cowboy from Hell
+1,928|6967|Argentina

some_random_panda wrote:

sergeriver wrote:

These are a few things I find kinda hypocrite about some Christians, not all.

1-The Vatican speaks of the 7 new mortal sins, yet they don't mention child abuse.  I guess being concerned about the environment is PC and gives the Catholic Church good PR.  But priests molesting and/or abusing children is not a concern for them.

2-Many Catholic Christians constantly point their fingers at Islam and claim that moderate Muslims should speak out against the extremists.  I wonder how many of them speak out against these priests.  I guess it wouldn't look ok for their Church to admit such thing.

3-Almost every Christian out there is against homosexuality.  Isn't this behaviour the opposite to the teachings of Jesus?  If I'm not wrong Jesus advocated to be tolerant to others and yet most Christians are against gays having the same rights than us because "it's not natural".

4-Almost every Christian around the World is against abortion, that's a fact.  In the US many Evangelical Conservatives support the death penalty and the war in Iraq.  Isn't this a double standard?
1.  That's Catholic - the other branches don't have a pope or a Vatican (for example, I'm Baptist).  Nevertheless, if you go to many Christian organisations in our city (I do volunteer work for one), you'll find that funding counselling and assisting "families in danger" is a major priority.

2.  I haven't actually "pointed my finger" against Muslims, or heard anyone say that (save in the newspaper, where there's a sense of anonymity).  I know you said Catholics, but it seems to apply more widely.

3.  Leviticus 18:22
     Leviticus 20
     Romans 1:18-32
     1 Corinthians 6:9-11
     1 Timothy 1:9-11
     I'd say it's rather unreasonable to put forward a viewpoint like that without viewing the entire context, including the era, society at the time, attitudes in general to homosexuals, hygiene reasons, established laws, etc.

4.  I'm against abortion.  I'm also against the death penalty.  I'm also against all wars, no matter where or whom they're against.
1-Read where it says Catholic.

2-I said many not all.

3-You are not addressing the part of tolerance.

4-Good for you.  Many Christians support those.
2008-03-11 04:57:55
sergeriver
Cowboy from Hell
+1,928|6967|Argentina

unnamednewbie13 wrote:

sergeriver wrote:

4-Almost every Christian around the World is against abortion, that's a fact.  In the US many Evangelical Conservatives support the death penalty and the war in Iraq.  Isn't this a double standard?
4. ...oh, here we go again. Of course abortion is the same as casualties of war and putting down unrepentant, violent criminals! Why didn't we think of that! :foreheadslap:
I don't think it's the same, but isn't God the only one that can take your life?
2008-03-11 05:02:58
sergeriver
Cowboy from Hell
+1,928|6967|Argentina

Tehremos wrote:

well i read others post and they have seen that your OP is flawed as well

What religion are you?
You talk like you were a Christian, but got abused by a priest, it actually sounds like you have a personal vendetta against priests
I'm agnostic and I don't believe in Religion.  I'm pro choice, I support death penalty in extreme cases like rape followed by murder and I don't have any issues with Christians.  My mother was raised Christian and my father was raised Jewish.  So...
2008-03-11 05:04:00
DesertFox-
The very model of a modern major general
+796|6894|United States of America

sergeriver wrote:

These are a few things I find kinda hypocrite about some Christians, not all.

1-The Vatican speaks of the 7 new mortal sins, yet they don't mention child abuse.  I guess being concerned about the environment is PC and gives the Catholic Church good PR.  But priests molesting and/or abusing children is not a concern for them.

2-Many Catholic Christians constantly point their fingers at Islam and claim that moderate Muslims should speak out against the extremists.  I wonder how many of them speak out against these priests.  I guess it wouldn't look ok for their Church to admit such thing.

3-Almost every Christian out there is against homosexuality.  Isn't this behaviour the opposite to the teachings of Jesus?  If I'm not wrong Jesus advocated to be tolerant to others and yet most Christians are against gays having the same rights than us because "it's not natural".

4-Almost every Christian around the World is against abortion, that's a fact.  In the US many Evangelical Conservatives support the death penalty and the war in Iraq.  Isn't this a double standard?
I gotta say, this seems to be a stretch of the imagination for whatever effect. A lot of generalization doesn't help.
1-It's one guy in an interview who actually said it and actually "Girotti said the Catholic Church continued to be concerned by other sinful acts, including abortion and pedophilia."

2-I know that Americans do this, but how are we sure exactly how many of them are Catholic. For example, our good friend lowing has said that on numerous occaisions but I don't believe he'll identify with that religious label.

3-Maybe, I know that there is a big split between those who are against it (meaning the psychos yelling from street corners AND the normal folk who simply don't approve) and those who are indifferent towards the lifestyle and right to do whatever, while one doesn't necessarily approve of the buttsecks.

4-Not a fact. It is, however, a large and diverse group of people so there are bound to be groups and people represantitive of areas of society within it.
2008-03-11 05:11:19
sergeriver
Cowboy from Hell
+1,928|6967|Argentina

DesertFox- wrote:

sergeriver wrote:

These are a few things I find kinda hypocrite about some Christians, not all.

1-The Vatican speaks of the 7 new mortal sins, yet they don't mention child abuse.  I guess being concerned about the environment is PC and gives the Catholic Church good PR.  But priests molesting and/or abusing children is not a concern for them.

2-Many Catholic Christians constantly point their fingers at Islam and claim that moderate Muslims should speak out against the extremists.  I wonder how many of them speak out against these priests.  I guess it wouldn't look ok for their Church to admit such thing.

3-Almost every Christian out there is against homosexuality.  Isn't this behaviour the opposite to the teachings of Jesus?  If I'm not wrong Jesus advocated to be tolerant to others and yet most Christians are against gays having the same rights than us because "it's not natural".

4-Almost every Christian around the World is against abortion, that's a fact.  In the US many Evangelical Conservatives support the death penalty and the war in Iraq.  Isn't this a double standard?
I gotta say, this seems to be a stretch of the imagination for whatever effect. A lot of generalization doesn't help.
1-It's one guy in an interview who actually said it and actually "Girotti said the Catholic Church continued to be concerned by other sinful acts, including abortion and pedophilia."

2-I know that Americans do this, but how are we sure exactly how many of them are Catholic. For example, our good friend lowing has said that on numerous occaisions but I don't believe he'll identify with that religious label.

3-Maybe, I know that there is a big split between those who are against it (meaning the psychos yelling from street corners AND the normal folk who simply don't approve) and those who are indifferent towards the lifestyle and right to do whatever, while one doesn't necessarily approve of the buttsecks.

4-Not a fact. It is, however, a large and diverse group of people so there are bound to be groups and people represantitive of areas of society within it.
1-Yet they didn't include Pedophilia as a mortal sin.

2-Well, since Catholic priests can't marry there were a lot of cases of child abuse.  This could be solved by letting them get married.

3-I just say those, and I never said all Christians or even most of them, who bash gays are not following Jesus teachings.

4-I'd say it's a fact that most Catholic Christians are against abortion.

Last edited by sergeriver (2008-03-11 05:12:26)

2008-03-11 05:13:27
FEOS
Bellicose Yankee Air Pirate
+1,182|6620|'Murka

sergeriver wrote:

These are a few things I find kinda hypocrite about some Christians, not all.

1-The Vatican speaks of the 7 new mortal sins, yet they don't mention child abuse.  I guess being concerned about the environment is PC and gives the Catholic Church good PR.  But priests molesting and/or abusing children is not a concern for them.
This is an outstanding point, as I noted in the karma I left on a previous post. It would have made a huge impact for the Church to come out (no pun intended) and call molestation or any willful harming of a child a mortal sin. They missed a great reformative opportunity there.

2-Many Catholic Christians constantly point their fingers at Islam and claim that moderate Muslims should speak out against the extremists.  I wonder how many of them speak out against these priests.  I guess it wouldn't look ok for their Church to admit such thing.
Every single one of the Catholics I know have spoken out in one way or another against pedo priests. Many of them have even gone so far as to volunteer their time to help out those who were abused. You can love your church and still despise the actions of certain members of that church...particularly when the actions aren't in line with the doctrine of your church.

3-Almost every Christian out there is against homosexuality.  Isn't this behaviour the opposite to the teachings of Jesus?  If I'm not wrong Jesus advocated to be tolerant to others and yet most Christians are against gays having the same rights than us because "it's not natural".
There is a difference between "tolerance" and "acceptance". You can tolerate something without having to accept it as right.

I don't believe most Christians are against gays having the same rights as the hetero members of society (they do). What many (not most, as there is no source for the implied majority) Christians object to is extending the religious sanctity of marriage to homosexual couples. Legal protection for partners is not really the issue.

4-Almost every Christian around the World is against abortion, that's a fact.  In the US many Evangelical Conservatives support the death penalty and the war in Iraq.  Isn't this a double standard?
No, it's not. There is a difference between a defenseless child and an adult who has made choices and taken actions that result in their conviction for a capital crime. And I would argue there is a marked difference between supporting war in general (most people--certainly most military members--do not) and supporting a particular effort...supporting the sacrifices made by other humans on our behalf. It's not supporting the war per se, but rather supporting those who have chosen to put their lives on the line (regardless of reason) so that others do not have to.
“Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.”
― Albert Einstein
Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular
2008-03-11 05:15:58
sergeriver
Cowboy from Hell
+1,928|6967|Argentina

some_random_panda wrote:

sergeriver wrote:

some_random_panda wrote:


1.  That's Catholic - the other branches don't have a pope or a Vatican (for example, I'm Baptist).  Nevertheless, if you go to many Christian organisations in our city (I do volunteer work for one), you'll find that funding counselling and assisting "families in danger" is a major priority.

2.  I haven't actually "pointed my finger" against Muslims, or heard anyone say that (save in the newspaper, where there's a sense of anonymity).  I know you said Catholics, but it seems to apply more widely.

3.  Leviticus 18:22
     Leviticus 20
     Romans 1:18-32
     1 Corinthians 6:9-11
     1 Timothy 1:9-11
     I'd say it's rather unreasonable to put forward a viewpoint like that without viewing the entire context, including the era, society at the time, attitudes in general to homosexuals, hygiene reasons, established laws, etc.

4.  I'm against abortion.  I'm also against the death penalty.  I'm also against all wars, no matter where or whom they're against.
1-Read where it says Catholic.

2-I said many not all.

3-You are not addressing the part of tolerance.

4-Good for you.  Many Christians support those.
1.  Yes, priests.  That was an incident that I daresay might happen in any kindergarten.
2.  Good, so did I.
3.  The bible sets a pretty clear stance on homosexuality, but you'd actually need to read all of that, and quite a bit more before fully understanding (yes, there is a sensible answer to attitudes towards gay people in there).  There's gay priests in the Uniting Church, so why not bring that into the debate (they're tolerated, aren't they?), and that's question 3. 
As for 4, "k".
I didn't include the word catholic in the title because there are some issues that concern only catholic Christians and others that concern all of them.  If a Catholic priest admits he's gay he's out of the Church.
2008-03-11 05:17:52
some_random_panda
Flamesuit essential
+454|6600

sergeriver wrote:

some_random_panda wrote:

sergeriver wrote:

1-Read where it says Catholic.

2-I said many not all.

3-You are not addressing the part of tolerance.

4-Good for you.  Many Christians support those.
1.  Yes, priests.  That was an incident that I daresay might happen in any kindergarten.
2.  Good, so did I.
3.  The bible sets a pretty clear stance on homosexuality, but you'd actually need to read all of that, and quite a bit more before fully understanding (yes, there is a sensible answer to attitudes towards gay people in there).  There's gay priests in the Uniting Church, so why not bring that into the debate (they're tolerated, aren't they?), and that's question 3. 
As for 4, "k".
I didn't include the word catholic in the title because there are some issues that concern only catholic Christians and others that concern all of them.  If a Catholic priest admits he's gay he's out of the Church.
I actually removed that post before you posted it in this one as it didn't really reflect what I was trying to say.

I sort of agree with FEOS for 3.  Tolerance is rather different to acceptance.

Last edited by some_random_panda (2008-03-11 05:19:08)

2008-03-11 05:21:45
Ganko_06
Laughter with an S
+167|6854|Camoran's Paradise

sergeriver wrote:

some_random_panda wrote:

sergeriver wrote:

These are a few things I find kinda hypocrite about some Christians, not all.

1-The Vatican speaks of the 7 new mortal sins, yet they don't mention child abuse.  I guess being concerned about the environment is PC and gives the Catholic Church good PR.  But priests molesting and/or abusing children is not a concern for them.

2-Many Catholic Christians constantly point their fingers at Islam and claim that moderate Muslims should speak out against the extremists.  I wonder how many of them speak out against these priests.  I guess it wouldn't look ok for their Church to admit such thing.

3-Almost every Christian out there is against homosexuality.  Isn't this behaviour the opposite to the teachings of Jesus?  If I'm not wrong Jesus advocated to be tolerant to others and yet most Christians are against gays having the same rights than us because "it's not natural".

4-Almost every Christian around the World is against abortion, that's a fact.  In the US many Evangelical Conservatives support the death penalty and the war in Iraq.  Isn't this a double standard?
1.  That's Catholic - the other branches don't have a pope or a Vatican (for example, I'm Baptist).  Nevertheless, if you go to many Christian organisations in our city (I do volunteer work for one), you'll find that funding counselling and assisting "families in danger" is a major priority.

2.  I haven't actually "pointed my finger" against Muslims, or heard anyone say that (save in the newspaper, where there's a sense of anonymity).  I know you said Catholics, but it seems to apply more widely.

3.  Leviticus 18:22
     Leviticus 20
     Romans 1:18-32
     1 Corinthians 6:9-11
     1 Timothy 1:9-11
     I'd say it's rather unreasonable to put forward a viewpoint like that without viewing the entire context, including the era, society at the time, attitudes in general to homosexuals, hygiene reasons, established laws, etc.

4.  I'm against abortion.  I'm also against the death penalty.  I'm also against all wars, no matter where or whom they're against.
1-Read where it says Catholic.

2-I said many not all.

3-You are not addressing the part of tolerance.

4-Good for you.  Many Christians support those.
1. Your still exaggerating a very rare event.  Yes, the Church could have 27 deadly sins and child abuse be one of them.  The 'new' deadly sins was geared more toward the average person.  And don't think the Catholic church isn't concerned about priests abusing children.  I obviously it is a VERY RARE occurrence.  Besides, I hear more about Protestant ministers abusing children and family but it just doesn't make national headlines.

2. Well, I don't know where you were, but there was a large outcry against abusive priests.  However, your comparing two very different things.  Extremist Muslims are acting on what they believe God is telling them in their own twisted views.  An abusive priest is acting on his own. 

3. Most Christians ARE tolerant of homosexuals.  If we were not, we would be like Iran and executing them all or suppressing them into nonexistence.  There are always exceptions to this (I know a few evangelical/ fundamentalists who would like to impose the Iranian way of doing things, but again these are extreme exceptions).

4. Evangelical conservatives are not like all Christians (I consider them the equivalent of Muslim extremists).  Regardless, most peoples' views on abortion, death penalty, and war differ based on how they were brought up and experiences in their life.


Edit: Some Christians are very hypocritical about their views.  I can't agree enough with that.  Your post, though, makes big leaps and broad generalizations that includes more than just a few Christians.

Last edited by Ganko_06 (2008-03-11 05:26:47)

2008-03-11 05:31:07
sergeriver
Cowboy from Hell
+1,928|6967|Argentina

FEOS wrote:

sergeriver wrote:

These are a few things I find kinda hypocrite about some Christians, not all.

1-The Vatican speaks of the 7 new mortal sins, yet they don't mention child abuse.  I guess being concerned about the environment is PC and gives the Catholic Church good PR.  But priests molesting and/or abusing children is not a concern for them.
This is an outstanding point, as I noted in the karma I left on a previous post. It would have made a huge impact for the Church to come out (no pun intended) and call molestation or any willful harming of a child a mortal sin. They missed a great reformative opportunity there.
Indeed.

sergeriver wrote:

FEOS wrote:

2-Many Catholic Christians constantly point their fingers at Islam and claim that moderate Muslims should speak out against the extremists.  I wonder how many of them speak out against these priests.  I guess it wouldn't look ok for their Church to admit such thing.
Every single one of the Catholics I know have spoken out in one way or another against pedo priests. Many of them have even gone so far as to volunteer their time to help out those who were abused. You can love your church and still despise the actions of certain members of that church...particularly when the actions aren't in line with the doctrine of your church.
Yes, many do speak out, and many don't.

sergeriver wrote:

FEOS wrote:

3-Almost every Christian out there is against homosexuality.  Isn't this behaviour the opposite to the teachings of Jesus?  If I'm not wrong Jesus advocated to be tolerant to others and yet most Christians are against gays having the same rights than us because "it's not natural".
There is a difference between "tolerance" and "acceptance". You can tolerate something without having to accept it as right.

I don't believe most Christians are against gays having the same rights as the hetero members of society (they do). What many (not most, as there is no source for the implied majority) Christians object to is extending the religious sanctity of marriage to homosexual couples. Legal protection for partners is not really the issue.
I'm sure many Christians don't want gays to get married.  About the majority I can't say that's a fact.  My mistake.

sergeriver wrote:

FEOS wrote:

4-Almost every Christian around the World is against abortion, that's a fact.  In the US many Evangelical Conservatives support the death penalty and the war in Iraq.  Isn't this a double standard?
No, it's not. There is a difference between a defenseless child and an adult who has made choices and taken actions that result in their conviction for a capital crime. And I would argue there is a marked difference between supporting war in general (most people--certainly most military members--do not) and supporting a particular effort...supporting the sacrifices made by other humans on our behalf. It's not supporting the war per se, but rather supporting those who have chosen to put their lives on the line (regardless of reason) so that others do not have to.
How can they support death penalty and war if God it's the only one who can take a life?
2008-03-11 05:37:31
Adams_BJ
Russian warship, go fuck yourself
+2,054|6832|Little Bentcock

sergeriver wrote:

4-I'd say it's a fact that most Catholic Christians are against abortion.
You saying it is a fact does no make it fact.

 

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