Agreed.usmarine wrote:
The whole world is a double standard. get real sergesergeriver wrote:
My comment is relevant coz you can't support this law and a country that violates Human Rights like Saudi Arabia at the same time. Double standards.
Ya well my point is he can support both. Running a country is a business. And in business you routinely have to "rob peter to pay paul."sergeriver wrote:
Agreed.usmarine wrote:
The whole world is a double standard. get real sergesergeriver wrote:
My comment is relevant coz you can't support this law and a country that violates Human Rights like Saudi Arabia at the same time. Double standards.
Good for Turquoise having the ability to reevaluate is position (this is a good thing). He knew he would have to deal with the onslaught of "I told you so's" and he still shared his view here. If more people put critical thinking above popular opinion this world would be a much better place. Unfortunately when politicians do this they are labeled flip-floppers and every other negative thing imaginable. The truth is situations change.
Xbone Stormsurgezz
True... but I think, at this point, safety is temporary to begin with. I think the main freedom we lose from the Patriot Act already disappeared long before now -- the Right to Privacy. My feeling is that we might as well make that loss useful for something.Spearhead wrote:
Its possible to deal with it without removing civil liberties. Its just a lot harder.
But the only places worth visiting are hard to reach. *inserts Ben Franklin quote, yeah, you know the one I'm talking about*
Serge makes a good point. The time has come to stop trusting Saudi Arabia, and to point the guns at them with a simple ultimatum. "Help us destroy Wahhabism, or we will destroy you."usmarine wrote:
The whole world is a double standard. get real sergesergeriver wrote:
My comment is relevant coz you can't support this law and a country that violates Human Rights like Saudi Arabia at the same time. Double standards.
there are about 39 different things wrong with that comment, turq.
Explain.GunSlinger OIF II wrote:
there are about 39 different things wrong with that comment, turq.
Never gonna happen. Gimme some time for my idea to mature.Turquoise wrote:
Serge makes a good point. The time has come to stop trusting Saudi Arabia, and to point the guns at them with a simple ultimatum. "Help us destroy Wahhabism, or we will destroy you."usmarine wrote:
The whole world is a double standard. get real sergesergeriver wrote:
My comment is relevant coz you can't support this law and a country that violates Human Rights like Saudi Arabia at the same time. Double standards.
too many things off the top of my head.
first, wahhabism is a sect of islam. "Lets kill all the wahhabis" is like saying "lets kill all the protestants" Heil?
second, I thinks its pretty funny how people always say bad shit about wahhabism, as if thats the biggest form of fundamentalist islam, like they are the bad guys. Real simple, real naive way to look at it. Shiites blow themselves up too. Im sure there are a bunch of asshole sufi's as well I havent met yet.
3rd and last for now. You know how I look at your view on American foreign policy. Ive explained it before, but, to go beyond that, I feel like your view on this particular subject to much in line with a lot of simple minded people, and I know you are better than that.
first, wahhabism is a sect of islam. "Lets kill all the wahhabis" is like saying "lets kill all the protestants" Heil?
second, I thinks its pretty funny how people always say bad shit about wahhabism, as if thats the biggest form of fundamentalist islam, like they are the bad guys. Real simple, real naive way to look at it. Shiites blow themselves up too. Im sure there are a bunch of asshole sufi's as well I havent met yet.
3rd and last for now. You know how I look at your view on American foreign policy. Ive explained it before, but, to go beyond that, I feel like your view on this particular subject to much in line with a lot of simple minded people, and I know you are better than that.
I see no good whatsoever coming from Wahhabism. This is the same sect responsible for 9/11. We invaded Iraq when we should've kept the focus on Afghanistan, Pakistan, and Saudi Arabia.GunSlinger OIF II wrote:
too many things off the top of my head.
first, wahhabism is a sect of islam. "Lets kill all the wahhabis" is like saying "lets kill all the protestants" Heil?
second, I thinks its pretty funny how people always say bad shit about wahhabism, as if thats the biggest form of fundamentalist islam, like they are the bad guys. Real simple, real naive way to look at it. Shiites blow themselves up too. Im sure there are a bunch of asshole sufi's as well I havent met yet.
3rd and last for now. You know how I look at your view on American foreign policy. Ive explained it before, but, to go beyond that, I feel like your view on this particular subject to much in line with a lot of simple minded people, and I know you are better than that.
My beef is not with the Shiites. It is with the Wahhabis. Call it Nazi or whatever you like, but they must be eliminated.
Iraq is a lost cause involving regional fighting. I don't really care what the Shiites or Sunnis do to each other as long as they don't mess with us.
reading this post makes my inner child cry.Turquoise wrote:
I see no good whatsoever coming from Wahhabism. This is the same sect responsible for 9/11. We invaded Iraq when we should've kept the focus on Afghanistan, Pakistan, and Saudi Arabia.GunSlinger OIF II wrote:
too many things off the top of my head.
first, wahhabism is a sect of islam. "Lets kill all the wahhabis" is like saying "lets kill all the protestants" Heil?
second, I thinks its pretty funny how people always say bad shit about wahhabism, as if thats the biggest form of fundamentalist islam, like they are the bad guys. Real simple, real naive way to look at it. Shiites blow themselves up too. Im sure there are a bunch of asshole sufi's as well I havent met yet.
3rd and last for now. You know how I look at your view on American foreign policy. Ive explained it before, but, to go beyond that, I feel like your view on this particular subject to much in line with a lot of simple minded people, and I know you are better than that.
My beef is not with the Shiites. It is with the Wahhabis. Call it Nazi or whatever you like, but they must be eliminated.
Iraq is a lost cause involving regional fighting. I don't really care what the Shiites or Sunnis do to each other as long as they don't mess with us.
I dont see the point in arguing this with you turq. Look at it through my eyes. Its more complicated than wahhabis representing all that is evil. Ive seen a lot of people post talking about "I hate wahhabis, Wahhabis are the worst blah blah blah" Its funny. It sounds like a bunch of people that think they know what they are talking having absolutely no clue.
There is no point in arguing this with me if you aren't going to substantiate your argument. Give me facts. Tell me why they aren't the enemy.GunSlinger OIF II wrote:
reading this post makes my inner child cry.
I dont see the point in arguing this with you turq. Look at it through my eyes. Its more complicated than wahhabis representing all that is evil. Ive seen a lot of people post talking about "I hate wahhabis, Wahhabis are the worst blah blah blah" Its funny. It sounds like a bunch of people that think they know what they are talking having absolutely no clue.
So far, all that I've read and seen of Wahhabism is an insidious superiority complex among Muslims. It is all of the worst aspects of Islam melded into one sect. These are not people that seem intent on living peacefully with the rest of us, so I see no reason to tolerate them either.
turqoise, where did you get such a strong hatred towards wahhabis?
It sounds like you are just getting on the bandwagon
How many wahabis have you"seen"?
never said they werent the enemy. your view on this is just too god damn black and white.Turquoise wrote:
There is no point in arguing this with me if you aren't going to substantiate your argument. Give me facts. Tell me why they aren't the enemy.GunSlinger OIF II wrote:
reading this post makes my inner child cry.
I dont see the point in arguing this with you turq. Look at it through my eyes. Its more complicated than wahhabis representing all that is evil. Ive seen a lot of people post talking about "I hate wahhabis, Wahhabis are the worst blah blah blah" Its funny. It sounds like a bunch of people that think they know what they are talking having absolutely no clue.
So far, all that I've read and seen of Wahhabism is an insidious superiority complex among Muslims. It is all of the worst aspects of Islam melded into one sect. These are not people that seem intent on living peacefully with the rest of us, so I see no reason to tolerate them either.
It sounds like you are just getting on the bandwagon
How many wahabis have you"seen"?
Last edited by GunSlinger OIF II (2008-03-02 10:28:08)
I've hated Wahhabis ever since I first discovered their connection to 9/11 (back in early 2002). I did a lot of research on the history between us and the Wahhabis. Osama himself is a Wahhabi, and this particular branch of Islam was not very significant until we started aiding them against groups like the Soviets. We created this monster, but we must kill it now.GunSlinger OIF II wrote:
turqoise, where did you get such a strong hatred towards wahhabis?never said they werent the enemy. your view on this is just too god damn black and white.Turquoise wrote:
There is no point in arguing this with me if you aren't going to substantiate your argument. Give me facts. Tell me why they aren't the enemy.GunSlinger OIF II wrote:
reading this post makes my inner child cry.
I dont see the point in arguing this with you turq. Look at it through my eyes. Its more complicated than wahhabis representing all that is evil. Ive seen a lot of people post talking about "I hate wahhabis, Wahhabis are the worst blah blah blah" Its funny. It sounds like a bunch of people that think they know what they are talking having absolutely no clue.
So far, all that I've read and seen of Wahhabism is an insidious superiority complex among Muslims. It is all of the worst aspects of Islam melded into one sect. These are not people that seem intent on living peacefully with the rest of us, so I see no reason to tolerate them either.
wahabi fundamentalist are one little drop in a bucket full of assholes. If you think wahabis are behind most of the world's islamic terror, you dont know jack. quit singling them out as if they are the ones to defeat and everything will be gravy afterwards. thats just not the case.
so taking control of all the muslims world most valued holy site is not significant. you are being too ethnocentric.Turquoise wrote:
I've hated Wahhabis ever since I first discovered their connection to 9/11 (back in early 2002). I did a lot of research on the history between us and the Wahhabis. Osama himself is a Wahhabi, and this particular branch of Islam was not very significant until we started aiding them against groups like the Soviets. We created this monster, but we must kill it now.GunSlinger OIF II wrote:
turqoise, where did you get such a strong hatred towards wahhabis?never said they werent the enemy. your view on this is just too god damn black and white.Turquoise wrote:
There is no point in arguing this with me if you aren't going to substantiate your argument. Give me facts. Tell me why they aren't the enemy.
So far, all that I've read and seen of Wahhabism is an insidious superiority complex among Muslims. It is all of the worst aspects of Islam melded into one sect. These are not people that seem intent on living peacefully with the rest of us, so I see no reason to tolerate them either.
I agree that it won't solve the problem entirely, but it will send the message that if you fuck with us, you die.GunSlinger OIF II wrote:
wahabi fundamentalist are one little drop in a bucket full of assholes. If you think wahabis are behind most of the world's islamic terror, you dont know jack. quit singling them out as if they are the ones to defeat and everything will be gravy afterwards. thats just not the case.
Another point that I think needs to be made here is that you can't support Freedom of Religion and barring Muslims from immigrating at the same time.sergeriver wrote:
My comment is relevant coz you can't support this law and a country that violates Human Rights like Saudi Arabia at the same time. Double standards.FEOS wrote:
Exactly what civil liberties of law-abiding American citizens have been "taken away"?sergeriver wrote:
There must be a way to deal with that problem without taking civil liberties away.
Additionally, the Patriot Act isn't country-specific when it comes to terrorists, so your comment about including Saudi Arabia is moot. If a terrorist is from Saudi Arabia, they are no different under the law than a terrorist from Iran or Germany or Botswana.
pretty sure we sent that message in 2001. didnt quite work out the way we wanted. Sure they got the message and their reply was "So".Turquoise wrote:
I agree that it won't solve the problem entirely, but it will send the message that if you fuck with us, you die.GunSlinger OIF II wrote:
wahabi fundamentalist are one little drop in a bucket full of assholes. If you think wahabis are behind most of the world's islamic terror, you dont know jack. quit singling them out as if they are the ones to defeat and everything will be gravy afterwards. thats just not the case.
it wont solve any problem at all. wahhabis are not the source of our problems.
you are too fixated with wahabis, its like you have tunnel vision. its big bad world out there. wahabis just seem to be the easier talking points on video game forums.
Last edited by GunSlinger OIF II (2008-03-02 10:35:27)
In all honesty, says who?chittydog wrote:
Another point that I think needs to be made here is that you can't support Freedom of Religion and barring Muslims from immigrating at the same time.
Maybe I am. Maybe I do believe that our culture is better than theirs, but that's another discussion altogether.GunSlinger OIF II wrote:
so taking control of all the muslims world most valued holy site is not significant. you are being too ethnocentric.
The 1st Amendment?usmarine wrote:
In all honesty, says who?chittydog wrote:
Another point that I think needs to be made here is that you can't support Freedom of Religion and barring Muslims from immigrating at the same time.
look at that the definition of the last word in your reply and think againsergeriver wrote:
The 1st Amendment?usmarine wrote:
In all honesty, says who?chittydog wrote:
Another point that I think needs to be made here is that you can't support Freedom of Religion and barring Muslims from immigrating at the same time.
Immigration restrictions have nothing to do with Freedom of Religion. I'm not saying we should bar Muslims from practicing their faith, I just want to limit how many come here.chittydog wrote:
Another point that I think needs to be made here is that you can't support Freedom of Religion and barring Muslims from immigrating at the same time.sergeriver wrote:
My comment is relevant coz you can't support this law and a country that violates Human Rights like Saudi Arabia at the same time. Double standards.FEOS wrote:
Exactly what civil liberties of law-abiding American citizens have been "taken away"?
Additionally, the Patriot Act isn't country-specific when it comes to terrorists, so your comment about including Saudi Arabia is moot. If a terrorist is from Saudi Arabia, they are no different under the law than a terrorist from Iran or Germany or Botswana.
missing my point.Turquoise wrote:
Maybe I am. Maybe I do believe that our culture is better than theirs, but that's another discussion altogether.GunSlinger OIF II wrote:
so taking control of all the muslims world most valued holy site is not significant. you are being too ethnocentric.
but, since you agree that you are. how can you enter a debate with an admitted ethnocentric point of view. kinda setting yourself up for failure.
and I like the way you imply that I believe their culture is better than ours, real slick, buts thats not the fucking point I was trying to make, at all. look up the definition of ethnocentrism and look up the definition of debate and maybe, MAYBE youll understand what Im talking about.