BF2S Forums Gun Free Zones

RAIMIUS wrote:

Reciprocity wrote:

Little BaBy JESUS wrote:

Umm is it just me or would the reason these shootings happened in the first place be cuz guns are accessable?

If these people couldnt get their hands on guns u wouldnt need guns to defend urself...

So let me get this right... u need guns, to defend urself from guns...

i might be crazy but if there were no guns. u wouldnt need guns.

and how would you suggest getting rid of tens of millions of firearms? nicely ask all the criminals to hand in their gats?

That is the reality of the situation.  We cannot uninvent the gun.  Criminals have and will have guns.  The question becomes, do law-abiding citizens get the same power?  Never bring anything other than a gun to a gunfight.  If the bad guy has a gun, I want the capability to effectively counter that.

Dalai Lama wrote:

"If someone has a gun and is trying to kill you, it would be reasonable to shoot back with your own gun."

Criminals still manage to get guns true.

but its not criminals doing high school shootings... its teenages with a grudge and the access to a gun/s.

generally criminals will not kill u when robbing u etc etc unless u pose a threat to them eg. have a gun.

Reciprocity wrote:

guns aren't the problem, poverty is the source of many of our social problems.  you only hear about these horrible mass shootings, but the vast majority of firearms related death are poor kids killing poor kids.  if you incinerated every single weapon in the world they'd be throwing bricks at each other.

Exactly... but u try killing 32 and wounding dozens more with a brick or a knife or some other melee weapon.

Little BaBy JESUS wrote:

generally criminals will not kill u when robbing u etc etc unless u pose a threat to them eg. have a gun.

You count on that.  I don't like the odds.  When someone points a loaded gun at me and makes a threat, I will fear for my life...and act to preserve my life by whatever means available (flee, talk, bribes, hand-to-hand, stun gun, mace, firearm, whatever).

Most murders are committed by felons.
School shooters aren't criminals???  I lot of them have had issues with LE/admin prior to their murders.  Others have mental histories that should preclude them from firearm ownership (Cho for example).

Exactly... but u try killing 32 and wounding dozens more with a brick or a knife or some other melee weapon.

Have you seen this?

BBC wrote:

A year earlier, Eden Strang seriously wounded 11 people when he went on the rampage with a samurai sword at a Roman Catholic Church near his home in Thornton Heath, south London.

Fortunately, this guy wasn't very proficient (or medical personnel were AWESOME).  People have been killing each other for thousands of years.  Eliminating one tool (which you can't really do anyway) would not solve this.

Last edited by RAIMIUS (2008-02-22 01:11:02)

RAIMIUS wrote:

Little BaBy JESUS wrote:

generally criminals will not kill u when robbing u etc etc unless u pose a threat to them eg. have a gun.

You count on that.  I don't like the odds.  When someone points a loaded gun at me and makes a threat, I will fear for my life...and act to preserve my life by whatever means available (flee, talk, bribes, hand-to-hand, stun gun, mace, firearm, whatever).

Most murders are committed by felons.
School shooters aren't criminals???  I lot of them have had issues with LE/admin prior to their murders.  Others have mental histories that should preclude them from firearm ownership (Cho for example).

they may have issues etc... but often the guns arnt illegal... they are legal guns that they had access to (through parents, other family, friends etc)

and im pretty sure if u have a loaded gun pointed at ur head the last thing u wanna do is reach for ur own gun/taser

Little BaBy JESUS wrote:

a teenage reacting violently on an impulse will obviously choose a gun... its easy.

or a knife, or a pointy stick, or an automobile. 

These well publicized mass killings have been thoroughly planned exercises.

Reciprocity wrote:

Little BaBy JESUS wrote:

a teenage reacting violently on an impulse will obviously choose a gun... its easy.

or a knife, or a pointy stick, or an automobile. 

These well publicized mass killings have been thoroughly planned exercises.

Going home after being fired from ur job stealing ur uncles gun and going down to ur local mall is not organised in my opinion.

RAIMIUS wrote:

Little BaBy JESUS wrote:

RAIMIUS wrote:

You count on that.  I don't like the odds.  When someone points a loaded gun at me and makes a threat, I will fear for my life...and act to preserve my life by whatever means available (flee, talk, bribes, hand-to-hand, stun gun, mace, firearm, whatever).

Most murders are committed by felons.
School shooters aren't criminals???  I lot of them have had issues with LE/admin prior to their murders.  Others have mental histories that should preclude them from firearm ownership (Cho for example).

they may have issues etc... but often the guns arnt illegal... they are legal guns that they had access to (through parents, other family, friends etc)

and im pretty sure if u have a loaded gun pointed at ur head the last thing u wanna do is reach for ur own gun/taser

80% of firearm homicides in the US are commited with illegally possesed guns.

That's very true, if I was in such a situation and was armed, I might try to deflect their gun while attempting to draw.  Granted, that is a move of pure despiration, and may or may not work...but it beats getting shot in the face while looking dumbfounded.  Another option would be to partially rack the gun, taking it out of battery, depending on the design.  That is what my father was trained to do, and what some cops do in desperate situations.

Assuming ur stats are correct and not made up... many illegal guns may have been legal until they were stolen then became illegal.

Its harder to get guns intio the country from overseas than it is taking from from legal owners in the US

Little BaBy JESUS wrote:

RAIMIUS wrote:

Little BaBy JESUS wrote:

they may have issues etc... but often the guns arnt illegal... they are legal guns that they had access to (through parents, other family, friends etc)

and im pretty sure if u have a loaded gun pointed at ur head the last thing u wanna do is reach for ur own gun/taser

80% of firearm homicides in the US are commited with illegally possesed guns.

That's very true, if I was in such a situation and was armed, I might try to deflect their gun while attempting to draw.  Granted, that is a move of pure despiration, and may or may not work...but it beats getting shot in the face while looking dumbfounded.  Another option would be to partially rack the gun, taking it out of battery, depending on the design.  That is what my father was trained to do, and what some cops do in desperate situations.

Assuming ur stats are correct and not made up... many illegal guns may have been legal until they were stolen then became illegal.

Its harder to get guns intio the country from overseas than it is taking from from legal owners in the US

Which is why responsible gun owners maintain positive control of their firearms!  If it is not within arms reach, it should be secured.  Propper storage of fireams has nothing to do with gun-free zones.

Last edited by RAIMIUS (2008-02-22 01:22:52)

RAIMIUS wrote:

Little BaBy JESUS wrote:

Reciprocity wrote:

or a knife, or a pointy stick, or an automobile. 

These well publicized mass killings have been thoroughly planned exercises.

Going home after being fired from ur job stealing ur uncles gun and going down to ur local mall is not organised in my opinion.

That's your opinion.  I would say that taking the time to steal the gun, get the propper ammunition, scope out the mall for several minutes, then return and open fire constitutes planning.  This is not a case of "Damn I'm pissed!...oh look a loaded firearm.  I think I'll kill you."  That is an unplanned murder.

that is still a short enough time in my oppinion to still be angry etc etc...

planned imo is more like looking over plans sorting exaclty what time, date, where, how etc and formulate and exaclt plan of action

But i must go now so wont be able to carry on this pointless argument... i see ur side of the story but personally dont agree.

Reciprocity wrote:

Little BaBy JESUS wrote:

Going home after being fired from ur job stealing ur uncles gun and going down to ur local mall is not organised in my opinion.

and when his uncle doesn't have a gun he won't jump in his truck and plow through crowd of pre-schoolers?

I understand what you're saying but I do not think removing one tool of murder and terror will magically fix anything.

i also understand what u are saying... but i personally beleive we shouldnt have anymore ways to kill each other than nessesary... guns are find for shooting pest animals, sport occasional hunting... but i feel they dont have a place in large population areas with high crime etc.

guns are an easy way to kill people... the idea is to make it as hard as possible for people to kill each other,.

So what are you suggesting? Arm everyone? At what age?
When kids start school, does mommy pack a .45 along with a kids lunch?

Little BaBy JESUS wrote:

RAIMIUS wrote:

Little BaBy JESUS wrote:

generally criminals will not kill u when robbing u etc etc unless u pose a threat to them eg. have a gun.

You count on that.  I don't like the odds.  When someone points a loaded gun at me and makes a threat, I will fear for my life...and act to preserve my life by whatever means available (flee, talk, bribes, hand-to-hand, stun gun, mace, firearm, whatever).

Most murders are committed by felons.
School shooters aren't criminals???  I lot of them have had issues with LE/admin prior to their murders.  Others have mental histories that should preclude them from firearm ownership (Cho for example).

they may have issues etc... but often the guns arnt illegal... they are legal guns that they had access to (through parents, other family, friends etc)

and im pretty sure if u have a loaded gun pointed at ur head the last thing u wanna do is reach for ur own gun/taser

If a guy is right in your face with a loaded gun it is very easy to take him down and get the gun out of your face if you know what youre doing and hes not a huge ass motherfucker. If hes a few steps away then your best bet is to get the fuck out because these guys cant shoot for shit and even if you got shot you will probably live. In any of those situations your own gun wouldnt really be useful unless you really were the fastest draw in the west.

Last edited by Dragonclaw (2008-02-22 05:20:06)

Very true!  Trying to disarm an attack who has a gun in your face is a move of desperation.  The only time it should be tried is when you think, "Oh shit, I've got about one second to live, if I don't do something."

JahManRed, I am suggesting that we don't restrict people from legally carrying guns in schools.  Arming everyone has not been suggested.  Let those who want to legally arm themselves do so.  Gun free zones restrict CCW permit holders from carrying.  These are people I want around if some maniac decides to start gunning down people...as they are the ones best trained and equiped to stop the shooter (until SWAT teams can arrive).