Erkut.hv
Member
+124|6974|California
Hey all, curious what your response is to the new Abu Ghraib pictures that were broadcast in Australia.

With all the Anti-western sentiment over some cartoons, do we really need our troops placed in more danger by bringing up yet another America is evil story? Are not enough troops dying for these people?

Comments please. I am personally digusted, the timing of these pictures being released could've only been done with the intention of fanning the flames of hatred towards the US and her Allies.

Some reporter wants to expose prison abuse? Fine. However, the person who released them should be held directly responsible for any violence that comes from publishing said pictures.
THA
im a fucking .....well not now
+609|7009|AUS, Canberra

Erkut.hv wrote:

Hey all, curious what your response is to the new Abu Ghraib pictures that were broadcast in Australia.

With all the Anti-western sentiment over some cartoons, do we really need our troops placed in more danger by bringing up yet another America is evil story? Are not enough troops dying for these people?

Comments please. I am personally digusted, the timing of these pictures being released could've only been done with the intention of fanning the flames of hatred towards the US and her Allies.

Some reporter wants to expose prison abuse? Fine. However, the person who released them should be held directly responsible for any violence that comes from publishing said pictures.
that kinda makes sense and kinda doesnt.

for starters the bad ones have not yet been released by the us, id hate to see whats in them.

and aus is an allie of us so you cant realy say we are trying to fan hatred towards ourselves.
and i think its good that the pics came out. why would you wana cover the shit up?
if the timing is bad, imagine how bad the timing was for the poor bastards in them.

Dont wana do the time? Dont do the crime.
Erkut.hv
Member
+124|6974|California

the_heart_attack wrote:

Erkut.hv wrote:

Hey all, curious what your response is to the new Abu Ghraib pictures that were broadcast in Australia.

With all the Anti-western sentiment over some cartoons, do we really need our troops placed in more danger by bringing up yet another America is evil story? Are not enough troops dying for these people?

Comments please. I am personally digusted, the timing of these pictures being released could've only been done with the intention of fanning the flames of hatred towards the US and her Allies.

Some reporter wants to expose prison abuse? Fine. However, the person who released them should be held directly responsible for any violence that comes from publishing said pictures.
that kinda makes sense and kinda doesnt.

for starters the bad ones have not yet been released by the us, id hate to see whats in them.

and aus is an allie of us so you cant realy say we are trying to fan hatred towards ourselves.
and i think its good that the pics came out. why would you wana cover the shit up?
if the timing is bad, imagine how bad the timing was for the poor bastards in them.

Dont wana do the time? Dont do the crime.
Note: I am not blaming Australia, just the News corporation that releases them. I have no problem exposing scandal, I just take issue with the timing of their release.
THA
im a fucking .....well not now
+609|7009|AUS, Canberra
i understand what you mean but unfortunantly the media dont care about that stuff.

they are there to do a job and they did it.

but it will always come back to the fact that if people dont do that sort of stuff and photograph and film it to boot, we will have nothing to worry about.
kilroy0097
Kilroy Is Here!
+81|7082|Bryan/College Station, TX

the_heart_attack wrote:

i understand what you mean but unfortunantly the media dont care about that stuff.

they are there to do a job and they did it.

but it will always come back to the fact that if people dont do that sort of stuff and photograph and film it to boot, we will have nothing to worry about.
And that's the crux right there. The Media doesn't care about the political reprocusions of what they publish. Nor does the media care about getting the story straight before publishing. All they care about is getting ratings and making sure they are the first newspaper/network/internet blog  to get the story out. They care about timing and they care about noteriety. No one gives a shit about the consequences or the exact truth (as they all have a spin to them) and that's the problem with the media these days.

Is what this news media did wrong? No. Was the way they presented the story bad? Yes. Could they have easily done this story in a different way? Absolutely. They chose not to and hence you have the issue you have now.
"When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross." - Sinclair Lewis
Marsmillo
Member
+0|7086
I don't understand why these photographs cannot be shown at the public.
I believe that the people have the right to see the truth and the horror of thse photos.

The news media have the duty to inform the public
And normaly we have freedom of the press. So why may these new photographs  not been shownd? Why they are censured out of the American Press? Where is the right on infromation?

I have a small link to a Dutch televison programm, where you can see a dutch reportage on the issuw
link (works 16 feb 06 ) Its in dutch

Sorry for my bad englich
SuperChink316
Member
+0|6884
Erkut.hv, I don't know why you want the people who released the photos to be responsible for anti-american hatred and the violence as a result of them. The United States should take responsibility for the actions of its troops in Iraq and any other territory that it currently has control of. Any violent behavior caused by these photos should be the responsibility of the party who took the photos and the people who were commiting the crimes in those photos.
Erkut.hv
Member
+124|6974|California
Erkut is fine.

And, we took care of the psioner abuse. It's been dealt with for quite some time. If you keep showing pictures of our abuses, I get the right to call german people nazi's still. Sure the war has been over for 60 years, but hey, the pictures keep getting shown of camps.

So let's keep beating dead horses shall we? There have been court martials already, and people are in jail over this. Rehashing this does nothing but create mroe violence.
Erkut.hv
Member
+124|6974|California
Some select clips from a news story. note even Iraqi's question why the pictures were released:


Iraqis Urge Calm Over Abu Ghraib Images
Feb 16 10:44 AM US/Eastern

By ROBERT H. REID
Associated Press Writer


BAGHDAD, Iraq


Newly released images of naked prisoners, some bloodied and lying on the floor, threatened to revive public anger over abuse by U.S. guards at Abu Ghraib prison at a time when tensions with the West are already running high in the Middle East.

The images were taken about the same time as the earlier photos three years ago that triggered a worldwide scandal and led to military trials and prison sentences for several lower-ranking American soldiers.

But many of the pictures broadcast for the first time Wednesday by Australia's Special Broadcasting Service, including some that appear to show corpses, were more graphic than those previously published. One of the video clips depicted a group of naked men with bags over their heads standing together and masturbating. The network said the men were forced to participate.

Some key Iraqi officials urged their countrymen to react calmly since the pictures were old and the offenders had been punished.

Iraq's prime minister on Thursday condemned the new images of abuse, but said those responsible had already been punished.

"The Iraqi government condemns the torture practices revealed through the recent pictures that show Iraqi prisoners being tortured," Prime Minister Ibrahim al-Jaafari's office said in a statement. It said, however, the Iraqi government welcomed the U.S. denunciation of the pictures.

In the Middle East, where there have been widespread anti-Western protests recently over caricatures of the Prophet Muhammad, Al-Jazeera and Al-Arabiya TV aired some of the Australian station's footage but refrained from using the most shocking and sexually explicit images. CNN also broadcast excerpts.

"There will be two kinds of reactions from Iraqis," she told The Associated Press. "One will be anger and others will feel sorry that they (SBS) didn't give them to the Iraqi government to investigate. Why use them? Why show them? We have had enough suffering and we don't want any more."

Pentagon spokesman Bryan Whitman said the Defense Department believed the release of additional images of prisoner abuse was harmful and "could only further inflame and possibly incite unnecessary violence in the world."

But another defense official said Army officials had reviewed the photographs posted on the Sydney Morning Herald's Web site and matched them to images that were among those turned over to military authorities in 2004 by a U.S. soldier.

The official, who spoke on condition of anonymity because he was not authorized to address the matter publicly, said the photos contained no new information about abuse.

Although the Abu Ghraib case was exhaustively reported here years ago, the new images could revive the issue of treatment of Iraqis by U.S.- led occupation forces, who face the ever-present threat of death or serious injury at the hands of insurgents.

Members of Shiite political groups opposed to the U.S.-led coalition appeared to have engineered that move. They were apparently seeking to exploit public sensitivities after attempts by the British to crack down on Shiite militias.

The new Abu Ghraib pictures emerged as the United States is trying to reach out to the disaffected Sunni Arab community, the backbone of the insurgency, in hopes of encouraging Sunni insurgents to lay down their arms and join the political process.

Mindful of the risks, some key Iraqi officials either avoided comment or sought to play down the images, noting the Americans had already punished Abu Ghraib guards.

Presidential security adviser Lt. Gen. Wafiq al-Samaraei called the abuse "unjustifiable" but added that it was important to remember that the actions occurred more than two years ago, offenders had been punished and rules on treatment of prisoners were tightened.

"The effect of something that happened two years ago is not the same as if it were repeated, for example, three months ago," he said.

However, they were consistent with earlier photographs of abuse by American soldiers at Abu Ghraib. Nine American soldiers _ all low- ranking reservists _ were convicted in the abuse and sentenced to terms ranging from discharge from the Army to 10 years imprisonment.

Whitman said more than 25 people have been held accountable for criminal acts and "other failures" at Abu Ghraib.

The network, which aired the pictures on its "Dateline" program, did not identify anyone in the images. However, several photos appear to show former Spc. Charles Graner Jr., who is serving a 10-year prison term for his role in the scandal.
Knochenmann_AUT
Member
+1|6965

Marsmillo wrote:

I don't understand why these photographs cannot be shown at the public.
I believe that the people have the right to see the truth and the horror of thse photos.
Nothing more to say.
Dirrty_Bird
Dirtier than thou
+5|6979|Vermont

Erkut.hv wrote:

Some reporter wants to expose prison abuse? Fine. However, the person who released them should be held directly responsible for any violence that comes from publishing said pictures.
I honestly could not disagree any more with what you said.  I really can't think of anything to say other than that.
Berserk_Vampire
Banned
+7|6927
I just saw the pictures yeah they are awful but thats nothing compared to what these countries do even to there own people  they dont care they just wanna use this and make other people look bad like the war of course people are going to get killed so the terrorists would broadcast all the killed people on tv etc.

Whats funny is they get so upset over some stupid cartoons and yet they show their true mentality by hanging that 17 year old girl to death for defending herself from being raped by two guys so really they just need to shut up already.

I mean its not different the terrorists probably treat their prisoners like this too before they chop off there heads or what ever they do.
RAIMIUS
You with the face!
+244|6953|US
Some more reporters with a political agenda...AHHH!!
Of course it was released at a bad time for the US.  OH! Look! Tom just printed these negitives, and guess what's on 'em! GIVE ME A BREAK.  I hate people who are so bent on their own agendas that they will risk international incidents just to get their name out.
B.Schuss
I'm back, baby... ( sort of )
+664|7080|Cologne, Germany

Mike_J wrote:

I don't understand how Europe and America's liberal crowd can be so critical of our "torture."  The majority of our torturing methods are a joke in the first place.  We treat these terrorists and suspected terrorists like sissys and babies.  Of all people to be critical about it, Europe isn't exactly known to be easy on torture according to its past.  I wish we would treat these captives like medieval times.  The only way we're gonna deal with terrorism more quickly is to use their tactics on them.  Terrorize terrorists.  I understand as being a superpower we have the responsibility to be humane and use our power to try and prevent evil, but these guys' we're fighting are beyond a change in mindset and showing any kind of mercy to anyone but muslims.  They need to be dealt with harshly and cruely.

edit:  sorry, i should say some of europe rather than assuming all.
Well, us Europeans might have a bad track record on torture in the past, but at least we don't do it today...

Also, if you use the same tactics as terrorists, you are no better than them. GWB always tells us that the US does it for the "right" cause, that their cause is "just". Problem is, if you put forward moral supremacy, you gotta live it.

As the old saying goes, "you don't defend the law by breaking it"
Dirrty_Bird
Dirtier than thou
+5|6979|Vermont

B.Schuss wrote:

Well, us Europeans might have a bad track record on torture in the past, but at least we don't do it today...

Also, if you use the same tactics as terrorists, you are no better than them. GWB always tells us that the US does it for the "right" cause, that their cause is "just". Problem is, if you put forward moral supremacy, you gotta live it.

As the old saying goes, "you don't defend the law by breaking it"
Well put.  I was going to respond to his post but you have said just about everything I was going to say.
Erkut.hv
Member
+124|6974|California
Well put Schuss. I say in '08 we vote for a Mongolian with a bad attitude. We'll clean up terrorism in a week and a half. Problem is, Rep or Dem, we're gonna get another weak politician, who's only in it to advance his/her own party.

As far as the pics, if you read the news stories, they are old offenses that have already been dealt with.

My ONLY problem with the pictures is the timing. Maybe you don't care if material is released that could put my friends in danger, but I do. I fail to see why you understand that. Everybody is quick to offer other people up as sacrificial lambs, but if you were in the Middle East, serving, you'd probably be a little pissed the pics were released at this particular time.

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