k, lets just watch the show now
Heh. I'm not watching Mythbusters, but I suspect you are wrong. While your thought is the obvious one, it is also the obviously incorrect one. Reread DrunkFace's post and think about it. Real hard.haffeysucks wrote:
The plane isn't moving in relation to the air. The wheels are spinning. Cool. Are the engines on? No, because the plane has to stay on the treadmill.DrunkFace wrote:
And they create thrust (forward movement) from the engines, not the wheels. The plane will therefore move forward in relation to the air create lift and take off.
Think about it, if you're running on a treadmill, do you feel air blowing past your face? No, because you are not moving in relation to the air.
You know what, let's just put this a simpler way. I'm right, you're wrong.
So you're saying the engines are on? Then the plane has it's engines on, and yet is still in relation to the air, wheels spinning underneath it. I'm still right, because there is no airflow over/under the wings, creating no lift. The lift isn't created by the engines; the thrust is created by the engines, which is exactly what DrunkFace said. So in that aspect, he's right. But the plane won't take off.SenorToenails wrote:
Heh. I'm not watching Mythbusters, but I suspect you are wrong. While your thought is the obvious one, it is also the obviously incorrect one. Reread DrunkFace's post and think about it. Real hard.haffeysucks wrote:
The plane isn't moving in relation to the air. The wheels are spinning. Cool. Are the engines on? No, because the plane has to stay on the treadmill.DrunkFace wrote:
And they create thrust (forward movement) from the engines, not the wheels. The plane will therefore move forward in relation to the air create lift and take off.
Think about it, if you're running on a treadmill, do you feel air blowing past your face? No, because you are not moving in relation to the air.
You know what, let's just put this a simpler way. I'm right, you're wrong.
"people in ny have a general idea of how to drive. one of the pedals goes forward the other one prevents you from dying"
You in some trouble boy!DrunkFace wrote:
It takes off right?Sigh, closes the thread, makes an ultimatum as though he's god and gets it wrong.... what a douche.chuyskywalker wrote:
NO THE PLANE WILL NEVER TAKE OFF.
That IS the answer. If you think it isn't, please go take a physics class and present your findings in an oral report so everyone can laugh at you and your messy hair.
I'm closing this -- I think 6 pages is enough. Sheesh.
This thread must die.
What's your view though, ATG? Would it take off? Or would it stay on the ground?ATG wrote:
You in some trouble boy!DrunkFace wrote:
It takes off right?Sigh, closes the thread, makes an ultimatum as though he's god and gets it wrong.... what a douche.chuyskywalker wrote:
NO THE PLANE WILL NEVER TAKE OFF.
That IS the answer. If you think it isn't, please go take a physics class and present your findings in an oral report so everyone can laugh at you and your messy hair.
I'm closing this -- I think 6 pages is enough. Sheesh.
This thread must die.
"people in ny have a general idea of how to drive. one of the pedals goes forward the other one prevents you from dying"
Ok, you've completely lost me.haffeysucks wrote:
The plane isn't moving in relation to the air. The wheels are spinning. Cool. Are the engines on? No, because the plane has to stay on the treadmill.DrunkFace wrote:
And they create thrust (forward movement) from the engines, not the wheels. The plane will therefore move forward in relation to the air create lift and take off.haffeysucks wrote:
You're completely wrong. Planes fly because their wings generate lift. Simple as that.
Plane on a treadmill = FAIL.
Think about it, if you're running on a treadmill, do you feel air blowing past your face? No, because you are not moving in relation to the air.
You know what, let's just put this a simpler way. I'm right, you're wrong.
Why not? You can't just state something and then not back it up with anything. And also the plane is moving forward because the engines produce thrust which moves it forward through the air.The plane isn't moving in relation to the air.
Yes, but again I don't understand the need for this comment. The wheels are free spinning, the thrust comes from the engines which moves it forward, and the wheels spin freely underneath the aeroplane. It doesn't matter how fast the 'treadmill' is going backwards the wheels will just spin freely faster.The wheels are spinning. Cool.
WTF!!! Seriously WTF!!! Of course with the engines not on its not going to take off, but what retard would think otherwise... And if the plane must stay on the treadmill its never going to take off (because that would be leaving the treadmill)... but where anywhere does it stipulate these conditions? anywhere?Are the engines on? No, because the plane has to stay on the treadmill.
Here's the OP from the other thread to refresh your memory.
ATG wrote:
A plane is standing on a runway that can move (like a giant conveyor
belt). This conveyor has a control system that tracks the plane's
speed and tunes the speed of the conveyor to be exactly the same (but
in the opposite direction).
Will the plane be able to take off?
That is because your forward movement is controlled by your legs, the same as if the planes forward movement was controlled by its wheels. BUT it is not, a planes forward movement is controlled by its engines through thrust. Consider standing on a treadmill in roller blades now pull yourself forward with your arms, you are now moving forward in relation to the air, the same as the engines of a plane will do.Think about it, if you're running on a treadmill, do you feel air blowing past your face? No, because you are not moving in relation to the air.
I'm right, you're wrong.
Why won't it take off? The movement of the plane is not limited by the wheels in any significant way. They are free spinning wheels.haffeysucks wrote:
So you're saying the engines are on? Then the plane has it's engines on, and yet is still in relation to the air, wheels spinning underneath it. I'm still right, because there is no airflow over/under the wings, creating no lift. The lift isn't created by the engines; the thrust is created by the engines, which is exactly what DrunkFace said. So in that aspect, he's right. But the plane won't take off.
So the thrust will push the body of the plane, which will cause the wheels to spin. The treadmill will match the speed of the wheels by moving in the opposite direction. But that doesn't keep the plane from moving. Because the wheels aren't the source of the motion for the plane.
Unless I am thinking of a slightly different situation then you, the plane will take off. But the problem with this situation is that it is so poorly worded that it is not interpreted the same.
Gonna print this out to show my physics teacher for the lulz. I'll have him respond, because honestly: I give up.
Last edited by haffeysucks (2008-01-30 18:58:05)
"people in ny have a general idea of how to drive. one of the pedals goes forward the other one prevents you from dying"
hahahahahahahah the plane flys, pilot said it wouldnt
The lift equation states that lift L is equal to the lift coefficient Cl times the density r times half of the velocity V squared times the wing area A.
L = Cl * A * .5 * r * V^2
The density is the denisty of the air (or whatever fluid) and velocity is for the flow over the wing.
If the plane is not moving, then air is not flowing over the wing. Therefore, no lift is generated, i.e. velocity = 0.
L = Cl * A * .5 * r * V^2
The density is the denisty of the air (or whatever fluid) and velocity is for the flow over the wing.
If the plane is not moving, then air is not flowing over the wing. Therefore, no lift is generated, i.e. velocity = 0.
I had to stop reading that thread. It was sucking out my intelligence.Locoloki wrote:
http://forums.bf2s.com/viewtopic.php?id=58373
Last edited by cospengle (2008-01-30 18:59:24)
Ok. They took off, but they didn't stay within the parameters.
The plane didn't lift off on the spot. It had to actually move forward quite a way before taking off.
The spirit of the myth (to my understanding) was that the plane produced enough thrust that, without moving in a forward direction while still on the ground, it would achieve takeoff velocity.
Mythbusters, didn't follow this. The plane had to produce enough forward force to overcome the treadmill AND move forward to get lift.
My opinion: NOT BUSTED
The plane didn't lift off on the spot. It had to actually move forward quite a way before taking off.
The spirit of the myth (to my understanding) was that the plane produced enough thrust that, without moving in a forward direction while still on the ground, it would achieve takeoff velocity.
Mythbusters, didn't follow this. The plane had to produce enough forward force to overcome the treadmill AND move forward to get lift.
My opinion: NOT BUSTED
Last edited by Ganko_06 (2008-01-30 19:08:05)
If your physics teacher agrees with you, then he should go back to school. Is he where you learned things like "You know what, let's just put this a simpler way. I'm right, you're wrong."? Persuasive argument.haffeysucks wrote:
Gonna print this out to show my physics teacher for the lulz. I'll have him respond, because honestly: I give up.
How do we know the tarp was going the same speed? I mean a tarp is not exactly a treadmill.Locoloki wrote:
hahahahahahahah the plane flys, pilot said it wouldnt
Well, MythBusters says that the plane takes off, but I think they performed their experiment incorrectly. First, they said the takeoff speed was 25 mph, but Jamie's truck was only going 20 mph. Because of this, the plane moved forward, creating lift due to the wind moving under the wings. Had they performed the procedure properly, the plane should have stayed stationary and not flown.
yeah there was a lot of confusion at first, at first i thought it wouldnt fly, but after sleeping on it a couple nights i realized the plane will move forward.
the plane moves forward, and thats all it needs to create lift. Most people are confused because they think the plane will just sit there like the pilot thought, but, since the power used to propel the plane forward is independant of the wheels, it doesnt matter how fast the treadmill is turning, the plane will still move forward like it normally does
the plane moves forward, and thats all it needs to create lift. Most people are confused because they think the plane will just sit there like the pilot thought, but, since the power used to propel the plane forward is independant of the wheels, it doesnt matter how fast the treadmill is turning, the plane will still move forward like it normally does
the tarp was moving 25 mph according to Jaime's speedometerusmarine wrote:
How do we know the tarp was going the same speed? I mean a tarp is not exactly a treadmill.Locoloki wrote:
hahahahahahahah the plane flys, pilot said it wouldnt
mythbusters strikes again.Havok wrote:
Well, MythBusters says that the plane takes off, but I think they performed their experiment incorrectly. First, they said the takeoff speed was 25 mph, but Jamie's truck was only going 20 mph. Because of this, the plane moved forward, creating lift due to the wind moving under the wings. Had they performed the procedure properly, the plane should have stayed stationary and not flown.
That's exactly it. People keep thinking of it like a car on a treadmill or something.Locoloki wrote:
yeah there was a lot of confusion at first, at first i thought it wouldnt fly, but after sleeping on it a couple nights i realized the plane will move forward.
the plane moves forward, and thats all it needs to create lift. Most people are confused because they think the plane will just sit there like the pilot thought, but, since the power used to propel the plane forward is independant of the wheels, it doesnt matter how fast the treadmill is turning, the plane will still move forward like it normally does
I thought it would take off after thinking about it.
Edit: lol, where did haffey go?
Edit: lol, where did haffey go?
Last edited by Dauntless (2008-01-30 19:06:39)
His truck was at 25, I believe you read the gauge wrong. I'm completely on the side of the final results though, due to the experiments they showed about the car on the treadmill and the plane on the treadmill. I wish they would have done it again though to remove any shadow of a doubt by moving the conveyor at say 50 mph or so, as that would have shut some people up.Havok wrote:
Well, MythBusters says that the plane takes off, but I think they performed their experiment incorrectly. First, they said the takeoff speed was 25 mph, but Jamie's truck was only going 20 mph. Because of this, the plane moved forward, creating lift due to the wind moving under the wings. Had they performed the procedure properly, the plane should have stayed stationary and not flown.
Last edited by DesertFox- (2008-01-30 19:07:52)
GunSlinger OIF II wrote:
I hate mythbusters.
Mythbusters, as much as I love them, ALWAYS fuck up their experiment. They should have the scientific method on their foreheads as a punishment.GunSlinger OIF II wrote:
mythbusters strikes again.Havok wrote:
Well, MythBusters says that the plane takes off, but I think they performed their experiment incorrectly. First, they said the takeoff speed was 25 mph, but Jamie's truck was only going 20 mph. Because of this, the plane moved forward, creating lift due to the wind moving under the wings. Had they performed the procedure properly, the plane should have stayed stationary and not flown.
Still here, going to bed though. I'll post tomorrow.Dauntless wrote:
I thought it would take off after thinking about it.
Edit: lol, where did haffey go?
"people in ny have a general idea of how to drive. one of the pedals goes forward the other one prevents you from dying"
glad to see mythbusters wasnt ruined by the writers strike
if you watch any episode of mythbusters, yes they mess experiments up, but when they do they say, its Busted/Confirmed/ or Plausible, and they NEVER for the sake of science mess up the results so they get what they are looking for
if you watch any episode of mythbusters, yes they mess experiments up, but when they do they say, its Busted/Confirmed/ or Plausible, and they NEVER for the sake of science mess up the results so they get what they are looking for
-_-'
If the plane is going the same speed as the threadmill (thus not moving), it simply can't take off. Period.
If the plane is going the same speed as the threadmill (thus not moving), it simply can't take off. Period.