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2006-02-14 14:59:14
Flecco
iPod is broken.
+1,048|6906|NT, like Mick Dundee

Some other bloke on these forums said that the attack chopper was still useable... With a brilliant caffine loaded gunner on speed...

Anybody else reckon the rule about repairing transport choppers on the go will be removed from the ROE? Cant wait to see Wake now.

Flecco[M95]somestooge
somestooge[AWP gun]Flecco
somestooge[AWP gun]Flecco
somestooge[AWP gun]Flecco
Flecco[PKM]theasshatwiththeAWP

^ Based on what happened to me last night...

Has anybody tried takin down a chopper with the PKM? My favourite passtime once but it doesnt seem to have changed at all....
Whoa... Can't believe these forums are still kicking.
2006-02-14 15:00:54
polarbearz
Raiders of the Lost Bear
+-1,474|7030|Singapore

(BRU)Timothy wrote:

Personally, I think I actually like it.  Yes, I die more, but it makes dogfighting SO fun!  And, choppers can still stay alive fairly easily I think. I think it has made it better.
ERRR.

1st: No dogfigting left. Demostrate how you last more than 2 seconds after a lock
2nd: how are you supposed to stay alive in a chopper with: Shorter life span, lesser missiles and a insane AA to boot?
2006-02-14 15:01:45
(BRU)Timothy
Member
+5|6929|Pennsylvania - Hershey!
well you probably mean me.  Yes, they are'nt as good, but you can stay alive in that easier then you can a plane if missles lock on you.
2006-02-14 15:02:49
(BRU)Timothy
Member
+5|6929|Pennsylvania - Hershey!
OK OK OK!!!!! Now, I know that they aren't as good! I was just saying this out of my own experience.
2006-02-14 15:02:56
cpt.fass1
The Cap'n Can Make it Hap'n
+329|6937|NJ
If it's ignorance it's studied ingnorance, really think about it. Stats have more to do with balencing the game then you think. Out of all the pilots that cried about it, there k/d ratio in a plane is around the 10 mark. So I don't need to look any father then to see that the AA is inadaquate. You just don't know how to use it, all these "amazing pilots" are saying. Well it's useless to learn how to use it,
Reason number 1, more then likely you're going to hit your own plane or helicopter resulting in a - score. Number 2, Your time is more usefully attacking land targets to help your team.
Number 3, even if you hit the plane it was just going to rearm and repair anyway causeing your trying to shoot it down a waste of time.
2006-02-14 15:02:58
SGT_Squirtle
Member
+13|6957

raz wrote:

Well tbh, I've been playin the new patch all day, and I've kinda got used to it.. I got a total score of 27 - 3, which is normally 27+ - 0.. I guess my style of flying has changed i guess.. All's i do is AA is now PRIME OBJECTIVE, then bomb. Also, i now need to check my 6 constantly every 5 seconds for any sign of enemy jets, and if it is i will have my burn and flairs at the ready, if i've not, i'm dead. In the old patch i didn't even worry about jets on my ass, i'd just continue bombing (if they weren't good at gunning), then i'd lose em' after i'd bombed. Witht the new patch you need to be on constand alert fo AA and jets and has now become first priority, just a slight alteration and i actually enjoy the challenge.

As for choppets.. They're fucked.
And honestly, thats how it should be... Aircraft in a combat environment have to constantly be on the lookout for enemy aircraft and AA as those are primary targets... good job adjusting

as for choppers... well, they should also be fucked... I have a buddy in the 101st airborne, rides a Blackhawk all the time... He tells me that if you unload an M16 into one it'll become a Dirt Torpedo... and in BF2 I've hit them with 2 Tank rounds and not even had them smoking... I'm hoping this will be somewhere in the middle.
2006-02-14 15:03:19
Flecco
iPod is broken.
+1,048|6906|NT, like Mick Dundee

Well I'm off... One last thing...

The battlefield has changed... Who still thinks the A-10 will slaughter everything? I do but I may be wrong and I'm REALLY crappy in jets...
Whoa... Can't believe these forums are still kicking.
2006-02-14 15:11:29
bigelectricat
Member
+3|6933

-=THC_RU=- wrote:

in real life u cannot shoot down a plane like that, if u could, then no one would fly them

and regarding skill: it takes a lot of skill to be in the air and to kill others, now every n00b will be sitting in stingers and shooting and getting medals like crazy.

Thank you for making this game VERY unbalanced
have you tried flight sims like LOMAC or IL-2? BF2 is acrade flying if you compare it to those two.

i am glad they finally gave the AA some tooth to fight in BF2. its like having the latest generation of stinger missiles which CAN distinguish between flare and jet exhaust.
2006-02-14 15:11:29
LSD_Wash
Member
+64|7055
I'm reading these whining plane whores' posts and laughing out loud.  Whining because your precious jet actually went into the red???  Whining because someone killed you 3 whole times???  You look at the stats of any of you whiners and your k/d ratios in jets are from 8.5 to 14.  You really think that is normal?  Perhaps to you it is... because you are SPOILED.  You have had an unfair advantage for so long you think you are entitled to it.  Well, you aren't.

I forgot who posted it earlier but it made the point very well;  if you are in a tank or APC and you hear 'beeeeeeeep' you had better be worried.  Being a foot soldier you don't even have the luxery of a warning sound.  But being a pilot you have been free to completely ignore the 'beeeeeep' and keep dropping your payload of bombs on plenty of fresh spawns.  I'm not saying it's easy aiming and hitting your mark, but avoiding being shot down has been a walk in the park.  Finally, you will have to WORK to stay in the air.  And hell, your precious k:d ratios might even dip below 5 (like everyone else in the damn game).

I've a fair amount of time in choppers and a little time in jets.  They are both pretty fun and I have completely owned plenty of maps with a chopper, but I am totally happy about the change.  It shouldn't be so easy for jets OR choppers to dominate ground troops (thereby ruining their experience).  Maybe you whiners won't have as much fun getting a 4:1 ratio instead of your 11:1 ratio, but for the other 60 players on the 64-player servers, they will have a much better time playing.  What gives you few people the right to ruin the game for the masses?  Answer:  nothing, you don't HAVE that right.

I've also heard is said that the change was made because of the few (year right) whores who abuse the jets.  The same could be said of many other things.  The C4 thing comes to mind.  I have no idea how to exploit the C4 tossing, but I found it very useful to jump the toss C4 over fences, up into the Hotel flag on Karkan, and onto fleeing tanks.  That could be a big setback for me but that's the way it is.  The sploiters made the game worse for those of us who use C4 as it was intended.  Oh well... I'll deal with it.  Why don't you?  My money says you'll adjust pretty quickly.  You're all going through the shock and awe of what we regular players like to call "being killed".  Get use to it.
2006-02-14 15:11:29
E7IX3R
is drunk and crazy
+216|6929|UK
I've just been playing on wake and got about 15 kills in a plane, 4 for them were in dog fights, i died 3 times.

I just use keyboard for flying, no mouse or joystick.
2006-02-14 15:19:19
petethecheese
Member
+9|7004|England
About time, too.  Dice/EA HAVE balanced it - you now need team work to own a map - grunts to take out the aa (that's what Special Forces are for!!!) and then your buddies to keep control.  No more whoring by planes wooohooo!!!!
2006-02-14 15:37:03
DTStarfox
Member
+0|6960
kudos to lsd_wash. he is absolutely correct as for those that bitch and moan about the AA. it is entirely absurd if you have a K:D ratio anywhere above 4 (i doubt anyone is even good enough to manage 4:1 as a ground troop). having a fair amount of experience, id say its annoying as hell being bombarded by enemy jets, especially when the opponent team decides to sneak over to the friendly airfield and steal our planes as well. im glad they made it more realistic in terms of AA. having watched the history channel and military channel frequently (because they have some awesome stuff), i know as a fact that heat seeking missles would down most planes in 1 shot, so its still not entirely realistic in the game, but id like to hand out a big "stfu" to those that dont put variety into their game and just fly jets. see you in the battlefield :)

Last edited by DTStarfox (2006-02-14 15:37:32)

2006-02-14 15:54:06
InnerMonkey
Member
+62|6960
Guess I picked a great time to learn to pilot (only half sarcasm here).  Even as a beginner, AA was not even a fear in a jet.  It shouldn't be that way.  The only time I was afraid of AA was in singleplayer with the difficulty up.  Even, then, it wasn't too hard to evade AA, just pull a big S, or a fancy cut and roll, and 80% of the time, I was fine, albeit way off target.  I know it'll be more difficult now, but I hope it will be more fun to fly, as I'll have to do it 'right' (my own definition of right...to each his own).  Flying was just too easy before.  I can't dogfight yet, and even with that, it was rare that I got killed without a prolonged chase (and it's been years since I played Jane's ATF).  Now, I'll learn from the beginning to take out AA, hopefully with the help of ground support, as a priority target.  Choppers are fucked though

I started playing just before the 1.12 patch, so I haven't really played anything less, at least not enough to have a well rounded opinion.  In 1.12 though, the AA does not do a good job of taking down *enemy* jets and choppers.  In mobile AA, I find myself waiting to fire once someone is clear of any friendly radar returns, and rarely taking an enemy out.  It was much more useful as a ground supression vehicle.  I used it like a mobile MG nest.  It'll be interesting to see how 'overpowered' it feels after I patch.

I've spent the better part of 160 hours getting torn apart from the air, and I can't help but think that now I'll smile while zero-ing in, instead of just hoping the pilot is as bad as me.

Random Thoughts:

Jets will adjust tactics sure, but I don't think it'll be as bad as it was under 1.12

Two choppers will no longer be *almost* undefeatble.

It's insane that an attack chopper can pretty much blindly waltz into a defended CP and lay waste.  If nothing else, 5+ infantrymen should be able to chase it away.
2006-02-14 16:37:33
Ogopogo15
Mobile AA Whore
+1|6980|San Diego
Well I feel for the pilots somewhat who say the AA is way too strong.  I play AA and has a K/D ratio with the AA of 3.  While I think EA / Dice made a great step in working the AA, because the AA for 1.12 was a complete joke.  Im not even a good pilot,  and I could cruise by a AA withouth even worrying about the Lock tone.   

Last night,  2 J10's were chasing a F35,  and I shot down one of the J10,  withouth even seeing it.  I was amazed at first that the missiles didnt go after the F35 and suprised,  bwecause I didnt even see the J10 cause I was facing towards the sun.

The AA for 1.12 were fine for taking out helicopters,  but need working with the jets.  Everytime I get into a linebacker I launch all my missiles at a SU bomber heading towards me,  and I get killed by the laser missile.  Im glad that you can take out planes now,  but it is so easy to do it,  it doesnt take skill at all.

I admit,  I am a mobile AA whore.  I love using the AA,  and love to use the mobile AA to shoot down helicopters and play mind games with jets.  Now the AA is improved,  I dont want people and bastards who team kill me for the AA (which happened twice)  because they wanted to use it for a ride...and abandon it.

So in closing,  Im glad that the AA is pretty damn strong,  but I would like using the AA to have a little bit more challenge,  cause it is way too easy to take out planes.
2006-02-14 16:56:07
CrazeD
Member
+368|6914|Maine
Yes, the AA is improved. That means you can't fly carelessly anymore. I was playing last night and they couldn't shoot me with the linebacker, or the other plane. You have to actually do real moves now, like I always did. You can't fly like a tard and expect to not get shot down. I dunno who that was flying, but you flew practically straight.
2006-02-14 17:02:10
the_outsider38
Microsoft Poster Child
+83|6936|Vancouver BC Canada
The AA was fine before, if you were skilled with it it was easy to take down jets/choppers, the new aa is a horrible unbalance.
2006-02-14 17:05:20
RGB|Apocalypse
Member
+1|7002
Looks like people will start to TK for those stingers now. LOL...
2006-02-14 17:17:17
Crosell
Member
+0|6912
Well, armor whores are gonna have a fun time with patch.  Personally, AA is very strong. I think Buffing the aa and lowering the hp for helicopters and palnes was a dumb move. I mean. Thats the whole point of heli's and planes are to be strong. Thats why there are fewer of them on the map. I mean hell, Heli's can't do shit now. The AA is strong, and 50 cals rip them apart. I' wouldn't be surprised you will see people stop using these and just watch them sit at the spawn.

As for the part of "realistic" you should get one life.  A limited number of tanks. They should all be on the map at the beginning. Or a supply boat should come and bring them.  Am I right? I mean cmon guys its a game, its not real life, and it never will be.
2006-02-14 17:22:08
rombaft
Member
+0|6965|belgium

SGT_Squirtle wrote:

raz wrote:

Well tbh, I've been playin the new patch all day, and I've kinda got used to it.. I got a total score of 27 - 3, which is normally 27+ - 0.. I guess my style of flying has changed i guess.. All's i do is AA is now PRIME OBJECTIVE, then bomb. Also, i now need to check my 6 constantly every 5 seconds for any sign of enemy jets, and if it is i will have my burn and flairs at the ready, if i've not, i'm dead. In the old patch i didn't even worry about jets on my ass, i'd just continue bombing (if they weren't good at gunning), then i'd lose em' after i'd bombed. Witht the new patch you need to be on constand alert fo AA and jets and has now become first priority, just a slight alteration and i actually enjoy the challenge.

As for choppets.. They're fucked.
And honestly, thats how it should be... Aircraft in a combat environment have to constantly be on the lookout for enemy aircraft and AA as those are primary targets... good job adjusting

as for choppers... well, they should also be fucked... I have a buddy in the 101st airborne, rides a Blackhawk all the time... He tells me that if you unload an M16 into one it'll become a Dirt Torpedo... and in BF2 I've hit them with 2 Tank rounds and not even had them smoking... I'm hoping this will be somewhere in the middle.
tell your friend to stop flying the BH, he doesn't seem to know anything about it,
bottom plate is armored big time, hull is armored and can stand small firearms, BH is designed to stay in the air, meaning hydrolics and other stuff is placed this way you can penetrate the BH it's armor but don't have a big chance of hitting crucial parts
2006-02-14 17:23:42
pogled
Member
+0|7019|Europe
Fine. Usefull AA for the first time. Now the real world saying comes  true: "pilot's disaster - stinger was faster"

If they have overdone it with the AA improvement I can't tell so far, but on Kubra today the ground troops had a chance to defend themselves against the onslaught of jets and attack helicopters. AA ruled in first shock but only  as long as the pilots needed to recognize their new number one threat; From then on it was SEAD all the way. But with one thing altered: there now - for the first time - were AA vs. air arm duells which were won  by the one knew his trade better - not only exploted the might of his tool. The pilots still have their dumb bombs and laser guided toys but AA soldiers from now on are armed with more than defiance of death.

There is a reason that helicopters move (realtively) slow and carefull, flying "Nap Of the Earth" (real low) on RL's battlefields - it's the fear of running into enemy AA. All who have played real flight simulators like "AH-64 Longbow II" know what i speak of. Maybe this is what is waiting for us in the future - skills and air tactics instead of high speed stunt flying.

Summary: Improved teamwork and realism (if you want to call it realism) by forcing the high flying gentlemen to cooperate with the ground troops. If we all adapt to the new situation everybody will have a good time.

EDIT: spelling (1 in the morning..gnaw)

Last edited by pogled (2006-02-14 17:29:58)

2006-02-14 17:28:39
GotMex?
$623,493,674,868,715.98 in Debt
+193|7004

Disclaimer: These figures are approximate and dollar values are calculated from my base 15.94 cph. My total playtime is 313 hrs + 50 forum hours?

Money played getting carrier raped by plane whores: 75 hours = $11.96
Money spent on AA fruitlessly trying to down a plane: 4 hours  = $0.63
Money spent bitching on the forums about 1337 plane whores: 10 hours = $1.59
Emotional damages and elevated stress recovery fees: $100,000 dollars

Hearing all the former plane whores moan and bitch about having to play like the rest of us normal players:
PRICELESS
2006-02-14 17:36:55
(BRU)Timothy
Member
+5|6929|Pennsylvania - Hershey!

RGB|Apocalypse wrote:

Looks like people will start to TK for those stingers now. LOL...
lol! yeah really!  Ok, I think that the best way to evade the anti air is:

1.  fly high! the Linebacker and AA guns and such can't point straight up into the sky!

2.  Use the flares wisely, personaly, with AA so deadly now, I think it would be more balanced if the flares loaded a little faster, I don't know, but just a sugestion.

3.  If you take my sugestion to fly high, just have the bomber HUD up, once you see the target, dive bomb. Normally, the AA won't see you until you have already started to fly away, then you can just use the flares.

4.  When I know I am going to go bomb a carrier, fly high and do a nose dive to drop bombs directly on the AA. Then you can do whatever you want to the carrier.

5.  The good missles is going to make it more important for the aircraft on a team work together more. If you see an enemy plane chasing someone in a plane on your team, go for him!!!!! Most likely, you will get a kill or two and save your allied aircraft. 


                 ...And now you have probably the first information in this thread on how to evade missiles.
2006-02-14 17:39:28
Sledneck
Member
+0|7020
long story short...they fucked the game. Sure the ground-pounders are all doing jumping jacks now, but wait until they are out of rockets and want to call in an airstrike on a that spawn raping tank. As for you ignorant savages who suggest 'teamwork' to take out AA first...HAVE YOU BEEN ON THE NET AT ALL? teammates are good for 4 things: tking you for a vehicle, running after your grenade like its a fucking Cadbury Egg (punished.), running over your claymores/mines (punished.), and NOT FUCKING LIFTING A FINGER TO HELP YOU OUT. You want air to be more balanced in this game? Get a joystick and learn to fly, because nothing negates that raping bomber like an enemy in the fighter. AA in 1.12 might not kill jets that easily, but there isnt a pilot alive flying straight at ground troops to unload bombs when that noise is screeching in the cockpit. They could made stinger damage take jets down to the red in one hit or something, but they had to screw it up and make it so that any missile fired randomly hits something and shreds it. Now when your teammate unloads 8 missiles from the carrier guns....everybody on both sides dies. They coulda made one hit from a tank kill a chopper (thats ALOT more realistic than the stinger locks now). They coulda put in the pilot kit so that if you want to fly, you have to be useless on the ground. But they chose to fuck it all up. You grounders want to be from air? Play special forces or maps that don't have air.
2006-02-14 17:48:45
(BRU)Timothy
Member
+5|6929|Pennsylvania - Hershey!

Sledneck wrote:

long story short...they fucked the game. Sure the ground-pounders are all doing jumping jacks now, but wait until they are out of rockets and want to call in an airstrike on a that spawn raping tank. As for you ignorant savages who suggest 'teamwork' to take out AA first...HAVE YOU BEEN ON THE NET AT ALL? teammates are good for 4 things: tking you for a vehicle, running after your grenade like its a fucking Cadbury Egg (punished.), running over your claymores/mines (punished.), and NOT FUCKING LIFTING A FINGER TO HELP YOU OUT. You want air to be more balanced in this game? Get a joystick and learn to fly, because nothing negates that raping bomber like an enemy in the fighter. AA in 1.12 might not kill jets that easily, but there isnt a pilot alive flying straight at ground troops to unload bombs when that noise is screeching in the cockpit. They could made stinger damage take jets down to the red in one hit or something, but they had to screw it up and make it so that any missile fired randomly hits something and shreds it. Now when your teammate unloads 8 missiles from the carrier guns....everybody on both sides dies. They coulda made one hit from a tank kill a chopper (thats ALOT more realistic than the stinger locks now). They coulda put in the pilot kit so that if you want to fly, you have to be useless on the ground. But they chose to fuck it all up. You grounders want to be from air? Play special forces or maps that don't have air.
You called me a savage just because I gave a good sugestion? You have problems. Anyway, earlier today I was playing with the new patch, and I was flying a su-34.  Almost as soon as a plane would get on my tail, the mig would come in and take him out. I would do the same for him. I really dont have trouble finding people who use teamwork! Try using VOIP.  Just start talking and often people talk back. They do for me!
2006-02-14 17:50:54
l..Ph03niX..l
Member
+0|6889
I really wish this thread would die.

 

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