No, fact.
Animal Life != Human LifeiNeedUrFace4Soup wrote:
Stingray24 wrote:
Meat is yummy, especially beef. Me thinks the animal rights nutters have been watching too much Charlotte's Web.IronyStingray24 wrote:
35th anniversary of Roe v Wade January 22, 2008 ... 47 million and counting ... rest in peace little ones
Human life is far more valuable than that of a cow or pig.
The only "nutrient" you can not get from not eating meat is Vitamin B12.rh27 wrote:
Who indoctrinated you into saying that?Snorkelfarsan wrote:
And besides, meat is not really good for us anyway, except for fish. Atleast not compared to fruit and veggies.
The only way to be healthy is to eat meat, it contains nutrients that are essential to good health that you can't get from vegetables. (Well actually no, but the things you actually need to eat to replace the nutrients are unknown by any vegetarians I've ever met. Also you can't buy them outside of well-stocked health stores.)
At any rate, I'd rather eat meat and be happy than plan my diet out to fit 10 types of crap tasting nuts and seeds into my meals every day.
Human life is in a lot of people#s opinions yeah. Foetus' not being people though...SenorToenails wrote:
Animal Life != Human LifeiNeedUrFace4Soup wrote:
Stingray24 wrote:
Meat is yummy, especially beef. Me thinks the animal rights nutters have been watching too much Charlotte's Web.IronyStingray24 wrote:
35th anniversary of Roe v Wade January 22, 2008 ... 47 million and counting ... rest in peace little ones
Human life is far more valuable than that of a cow or pig.
That's a debate for another time, let us not forget what we are here for. To discuss just how tasty animals are.
Why? Human = AnimalSenorToenails wrote:
Animal Life != Human LifeiNeedUrFace4Soup wrote:
Stingray24 wrote:
Meat is yummy, especially beef. Me thinks the animal rights nutters have been watching too much Charlotte's Web.IronyStingray24 wrote:
35th anniversary of Roe v Wade January 22, 2008 ... 47 million and counting ... rest in peace little ones
Human life is far more valuable than that of a cow or pig.
Yes, Stingray and I had a debate about that just recently. Point being, there is no irony or hypocrisy there.jord wrote:
Human life is in a lot of people#s opinions yeah. Foetus' not being people though...
That's a debate for another time, let us not forget what we are here for. To discuss just how tasty animals are.
On topic:
"If we're not supposed to eat animals, why are they made of meat?"
I have that as a magnet on my fridge.
A square is a rectangle but a rectangle is not a square.iNeedUrFace4Soup wrote:
Why? Human = Animal
I like meat. A lot. Especially bacon.
To me, its not the idea of eating meat that should be being discussed here. I have no problem with eating meat. I DO have a problem with people being unaware of the treatment of animals by many of these processing plants and slaughterhouses. There can be and are humane slaughterhouses - where animals raised solely for the purpose of providing human sustenance are humanely sheltered, killed, and processed for human consumption. The problem is that these types of plants are largely few and far between due to numerous reasons.
The fact that most slaughterhouses are run by large agribusiness and manufacturing entities makes the bottom line the fundamental focus of these places. They want the largest animals for the cheapest amount of money, regardless of the health or living conditions of the animal. The employees are often underpaid and overworked, which leads to a large illegal immigrant workforce - largely uneducated and unskilled as to the health concerns and workplace injuries commonly occurring in these workplaces. Add to that very lax regulating and enforcement authorities, and you have a prime breeding ground for not only inhumane treatment of animals, but also of workers and the economic system as a whole.
Tyson Foods was recently fined for its involvement in a large illegal immigration employment ring. Often these large agribusiness companies sponsor "job fairs" in Mexican towns where they offer to hire them, obtain the illegal immigrants the proper temporary job permits, bus them to their facilities in the U.S., put them up in residences akin to trailers or "cabins" (like you see at San Onofre on the beach), and then continue to employ them after their work status has expired. Now, Tyson actually got caught, but this is a somewhat standard practice from what I have read.
There has been at least two large recalls of processed meat product over the last year. At least 2 million pounds of beef if I recall correctly, due to concerns of improper cleansing and/or processing in slaughterhouses.
Animal grazing and feeding does eliminate a vast amount of resources including energy and foodstuffs. Pollution due to runoff and processing procedures are very prevalent in large agribusiness and slaughterhouse operations - these are not limited only to meat products, but large food manufacturing operations in general.
To me, it is more of a worldview regarding meat products and foodstuffs in general, not a dietary choice like a vegetarian or vegan. I try to have as little impact physically on Earth as possible while not impeding my own physicality and mentality. That means that as long as I can afford to I buy "free range" or "organic " foodstuffs, I will. If I had the means, I would love to raise my own cattle and pigs, and slaughter them myself. I would love to have a garden where all my vegetables and grains are grown, but until then I will simply do what I can to make sure my global impact is the least destructive it can be, while supporting humane treatment of animals and renewable (or at least a minimal negative impact) production of growth. That is what the main point of the article is from my perspective; It is not about whether or not we eat meat, it is about industry-wide practices that are unnecessarily contributing to the destruction of resources while at the same time fostering inhumane treatment of animals, regardless of if they were raised to eat, with minimal global opposition.
To me, its not the idea of eating meat that should be being discussed here. I have no problem with eating meat. I DO have a problem with people being unaware of the treatment of animals by many of these processing plants and slaughterhouses. There can be and are humane slaughterhouses - where animals raised solely for the purpose of providing human sustenance are humanely sheltered, killed, and processed for human consumption. The problem is that these types of plants are largely few and far between due to numerous reasons.
The fact that most slaughterhouses are run by large agribusiness and manufacturing entities makes the bottom line the fundamental focus of these places. They want the largest animals for the cheapest amount of money, regardless of the health or living conditions of the animal. The employees are often underpaid and overworked, which leads to a large illegal immigrant workforce - largely uneducated and unskilled as to the health concerns and workplace injuries commonly occurring in these workplaces. Add to that very lax regulating and enforcement authorities, and you have a prime breeding ground for not only inhumane treatment of animals, but also of workers and the economic system as a whole.
Tyson Foods was recently fined for its involvement in a large illegal immigration employment ring. Often these large agribusiness companies sponsor "job fairs" in Mexican towns where they offer to hire them, obtain the illegal immigrants the proper temporary job permits, bus them to their facilities in the U.S., put them up in residences akin to trailers or "cabins" (like you see at San Onofre on the beach), and then continue to employ them after their work status has expired. Now, Tyson actually got caught, but this is a somewhat standard practice from what I have read.
There has been at least two large recalls of processed meat product over the last year. At least 2 million pounds of beef if I recall correctly, due to concerns of improper cleansing and/or processing in slaughterhouses.
Animal grazing and feeding does eliminate a vast amount of resources including energy and foodstuffs. Pollution due to runoff and processing procedures are very prevalent in large agribusiness and slaughterhouse operations - these are not limited only to meat products, but large food manufacturing operations in general.
To me, it is more of a worldview regarding meat products and foodstuffs in general, not a dietary choice like a vegetarian or vegan. I try to have as little impact physically on Earth as possible while not impeding my own physicality and mentality. That means that as long as I can afford to I buy "free range" or "organic " foodstuffs, I will. If I had the means, I would love to raise my own cattle and pigs, and slaughter them myself. I would love to have a garden where all my vegetables and grains are grown, but until then I will simply do what I can to make sure my global impact is the least destructive it can be, while supporting humane treatment of animals and renewable (or at least a minimal negative impact) production of growth. That is what the main point of the article is from my perspective; It is not about whether or not we eat meat, it is about industry-wide practices that are unnecessarily contributing to the destruction of resources while at the same time fostering inhumane treatment of animals, regardless of if they were raised to eat, with minimal global opposition.
Last edited by KEN-JENNINGS (2008-01-29 13:39:35)
I hate people who push their stupid values on other people. Whether that be Vegetarians bitching about Meat Eaters or Meat Eaters bitching about Vegetarians and boasting about how much Meat they eat.
Seriously, shut the fuck up. Both of yous.
Seriously, shut the fuck up. Both of yous.
I am a meat eater and will never give it up, but I do believe in the humane treatment of animals, thus, I only eat chicken that was raised as organic and free-range (open-range) and the same goes for when I buy eggs, bacon and beef as well as milk.
Not only does it support local farming, it is MUCH MUCH more healthier of a lifestyle to eat organic, free-range meat. Caged animals and the like are feed many different substances to make them produce more. These chemicals and antibiotics end up being consumed by US. Same goes for cows, they STILL inject cows with bovine growth hormone. And ingesting milk from these cows is detrimental to human health. I only drink milk raised organic and produced locally in my town.
Not only does it support local farming, it is MUCH MUCH more healthier of a lifestyle to eat organic, free-range meat. Caged animals and the like are feed many different substances to make them produce more. These chemicals and antibiotics end up being consumed by US. Same goes for cows, they STILL inject cows with bovine growth hormone. And ingesting milk from these cows is detrimental to human health. I only drink milk raised organic and produced locally in my town.
Nature is a powerful force. Those who seek to subdue nature, never do so permanently.
I dunno why I still eat meat, Ill ween myself off of it someday though.
Too many reasons why meat is, in general, a terrible thing, while the only real argument to oppose that view is, "it tastes good".
And Im surprised at how many people refute snorkel's claim that producing livestock wastes, among other things, grain and water. Dont people ever research before they go and make fools out of themselves? And Im not even going to bother posting a link, it isnt my responsibility to educate people.
Too many reasons why meat is, in general, a terrible thing, while the only real argument to oppose that view is, "it tastes good".
And Im surprised at how many people refute snorkel's claim that producing livestock wastes, among other things, grain and water. Dont people ever research before they go and make fools out of themselves? And Im not even going to bother posting a link, it isnt my responsibility to educate people.
Why don't you educate us as to why meat "is, in general, a terrible thing". Raising livestock is inefficient, yes, but what other reasons are there?Ataronchronon wrote:
I dunno why I still eat meat, Ill ween myself off of it someday though.
Too many reasons why meat is, in general, a terrible thing, while the only real argument to oppose that view is, "it tastes good".
And Im surprised at how many people refute snorkel's claim that producing livestock wastes, among other things, grain and water. Dont people ever research before they go and make fools out of themselves? And Im not even going to bother posting a link, it isnt my responsibility to educate people.
Overeating certain kinds of meat is bad for you, but then, so is overeating anything.
The problem with America (never noticed this here) is that they all think Vegetarians are meat-hating pricks with an agenda. For some people it's just a life choice. You know. Like how you listen to Death Metal and watch Anime cartoons. (Yes, that's you, the Bf2s member)
Last edited by Mek-Izzle (2008-01-29 16:45:41)
veal is still yum yum
Small hourglass island
Always raining and foggy
Use an umbrella
Always raining and foggy
Use an umbrella
gtfo vegitarian berk fagetMek-Izzle wrote:
The problem with America (never noticed this here) is that they all think Vegetarians are meat-hating pricks with an agenda. For some people it's just a life choice. You know. Like how you listen to Death Metal and watch Anime cartoons. (Yes, that's you, the Bf2s member)
Last edited by SgtSlauther (2008-01-29 16:49:54)
Hey!SgtSlauther wrote:
gtfo vegitarian berk fagetMek-Izzle wrote:
The problem with America (never noticed this here) is that they all think Vegetarians are meat-hating pricks with an agenda. For some people it's just a life choice. You know. Like how you listen to Death Metal and watch Anime cartoons. (Yes, that's you, the Bf2s member)
I aint vegetarian
Crab tastes nice btw
Last edited by Mek-Izzle (2008-01-29 16:50:55)
Mek-Izzle wrote:
Hey!SgtSlauther wrote:
gtfo vegitarian berk fagetMek-Izzle wrote:
The problem with America (never noticed this here) is that they all think Vegetarians are meat-hating pricks with an agenda. For some people it's just a life choice. You know. Like how you listen to Death Metal and watch Anime cartoons. (Yes, that's you, the Bf2s member)
I aint vegetarian
edit: fook you berks taste gud too
Last edited by SgtSlauther (2008-01-29 16:51:28)
So if it comes between Mr.Smith and a Cow you would flip a coin?iNeedUrFace4Soup wrote:
Why? Human = AnimalSenorToenails wrote:
Animal Life != Human LifeiNeedUrFace4Soup wrote:
IronyStingray24 wrote:
Meat is yummy, especially beef. Me thinks the animal rights nutters have been watching too much Charlotte's Web.
Human life is far more valuable than that of a cow or pig.
I would go with the human considering he is apart of you species and as I am sure you know most species favor their own.
Also it is more effective to eat what you feed the livestock, simply because you get more food out of the deal, but what do we care? Seeing how as a modern western nation we don't have to debate between the choice to raise livestock or eat the food we would feed them.
So keep living in bliss guys.
First of all, Ken Jennings post was excellent.SenorToenails wrote:
Why don't you educate us as to why meat "is, in general, a terrible thing". Raising livestock is inefficient, yes, but what other reasons are there?Ataronchronon wrote:
I dunno why I still eat meat, Ill ween myself off of it someday though.
Too many reasons why meat is, in general, a terrible thing, while the only real argument to oppose that view is, "it tastes good".
And Im surprised at how many people refute snorkel's claim that producing livestock wastes, among other things, grain and water. Dont people ever research before they go and make fools out of themselves? And Im not even going to bother posting a link, it isnt my responsibility to educate people.
Overeating certain kinds of meat is bad for you, but then, so is overeating anything.
And on the debate about meat being good or bad there is a lot pointing towards meat being less healthy than once thought. I am not saying you it's posion, but eating vegetables and fruit is so much healthier. And has so many more benefits. And yes, meat has proteins and some vitamins and it tastes really good! But Rasberry Jam also has vitamins, but there's a ton of sugar in it. So just because something has vitamins or other beneficial "ingridients", doesn't mean it's really good for you.
here are articles about the unhealthy aspects of eating meat:
http://www.askdrsears.com/html/4/T043500.asp
http://juiceguy.com/Meat-toxic-substanc … gest.shtml
-Natural proteinSnorkelfarsan wrote:
No it's not, because if we wouldnt be eating all of the meat we could use the food for ourselves.The_Mac wrote:
Well considering they feed us, I find that somewhat of a retarded argument.Snorkelfarsan wrote:
This is one of the reasons I try to avoid eating meat. And not only is horrible towards the animals, but so much food is used to feed them, food that could be used to feed ourselves.
And besides, meat is not really good for us anyway, except for fish. Atleast not compared to fruit and veggies.
-Natural iron etc
-Natural omega-3s in fish
We've eaten meat for years and years and years and years (I'd keep going but I'd be up all night). Sure, people can get by on a vegetarian diet with supplements, but meat is the tried and true nutrition. Fruit and veggies are equally important, but not enough for ME at least to become a vegetarian.
I try to always get organic, 100% natural, free-range meat and the like. Animals that are fed REAL food, not that mass-produced fake shit loaded with hormones and anti-biotics. I trust that the meat I buy is from a farm that treats the animals humanely. It's the natural pecking order... humans are on top of every other damned creature on this planet. It's been like that since the dinosaurs died. As long as the animals are treated properly, I eat meat without remorse.
edit: Jam/jelly has tons of sugar in it... exactly. I love my sugar and all but too much jam = too much sugar... most of the time they're not natural sugars either, but HFCS.
edit2: Some guy said raising livestock wastes water... what the fuck? Law of conservation of mass buddy... water doesn't disappear when you drink it. You piss it out and it goes into the sewage system to be treated. Or your dog pisses it out onto the lawn, and the water eventually evaporates.
Last edited by HurricaИe (2008-01-29 17:09:15)
The current system of raising livestock and other foodstuffs in general is incredibly wasteful, including water and power. Water is used to wash livestock and grow literally tons of grains and corn for animals to eat - food that could otherwise contribute to a healthy diet of many more people than an animal could feed. I could go in to much more depth, but I really can't be bothered to at this time.HurricaИe wrote:
edit2: Some guy said raising livestock wastes water... what the fuck? Law of conservation of mass buddy... water doesn't disappear when you drink it. You piss it out and it goes into the sewage system to be treated. Or your dog pisses it out onto the lawn, and the water eventually evaporates.
Last edited by KEN-JENNINGS (2008-01-29 17:20:21)
Wow. That is by FAR the dumbest reason for vegetarianism I've ever heard. If you wanna be a vegetarian, fine, more food for me, but your logic is totally fucked.Snorkelfarsan wrote:
This is one of the reasons I try to avoid eating meat. And not only is horrible towards the animals, but so much food is used to feed them, food that could be used to feed ourselves.
You're saying that a lot of food is wasted by feeding soon-to-be-steaks, and that's why you won't eat it? So not only are you wasting the grain, but you're wasting the food that the grain was wasted on?
...I don't understand.
What don't you get? All that food or "Energy" you feed the livestock is better used to feed humans directly, its a simple fact.
Now I just had a rostbeef sandwich, think I care that much? No, but I can grasp basic concepts.
Now I just had a rostbeef sandwich, think I care that much? No, but I can grasp basic concepts.
I dont understand... I was saying that the food being fed to animals that we then eat could be used to feed us instead. Just like Ken-Jennings said.RedTwizzler wrote:
Wow. That is by FAR the dumbest reason for vegetarianism I've ever heard. If you wanna be a vegetarian, fine, more food for me, but your logic is totally fucked.Snorkelfarsan wrote:
This is one of the reasons I try to avoid eating meat. And not only is horrible towards the animals, but so much food is used to feed them, food that could be used to feed ourselves.
You're saying that a lot of food is wasted by feeding soon-to-be-steaks, and that's why you won't eat it? So not only are you wasting the grain, but you're wasting the food that the grain was wasted on?
...I don't understand.
And I do eat meat sometimes, but Veggies are just so superior to meat.