SharkyMcshark
I'll take two
+132|7087|Perth, Western Australia
http://www.smh.com.au/text/articles/200 … 03743.html

Let me start this by stating that I'm all for non lethal defence of your property, and your neighbour's property, killing someone if it's a case of self defence. But this is ridiculous. The main argument against gun control* is that sane people with a registered gun do not snap and kill other people. Well this proves otherwise

To quote the article

Horn's account is that after he ordered the men not to move, they took off in different directions.
And, if you listen to the call the emergency services (link below, time 5.21), he states before the shooting that he's going to kill them. So he went outside to confront these people with the intention of killing them, and after they run away he shoots them.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hpO9Uv7uD1c

And again let me state that, while I'm personally for gun control, I can understand a person going to confront a robber with a loaded gun. I can understand a person shooting a robber if the robber intends to harm them, or wounding them non lethally to prevent them getting away. BUT, whether these men were on his property or not, and had stolen or not, if you shoot someone running from you that's not right.

If this was one of those lovely stories about how an armed intruder with a gun was confronted and taken down by a home owner I might have though "Aw well". But this is criminal. And no, I'm not saying you should go around robbing houses and expect to get off punishment free. I'm not trying to excuse the actions of the two deceased men. But Joe Horn essentially shot them in cold blood. I'm not condoning robbery, but I seem to remember the penalty for thus NOT being death. And again (just so every knows before flame) if they ran towards him or in some way threatened him, you could plausibly justify the shooting. But not when they were running away.

"Move and you're dead" (some have suggested that he said "Boom, you're dead" and to be honest it's hard to tell what he said to the robbers from the call)... I mean honestly, over what? A carry bag full of his neighbours possessions?

*For the mods: This isn't a thread about gun control per se`. If it was I'd have posted this in previous threads about gun control. This is a thread about what Mr Horn did. And yes I did search and am positive this hasn't been posted before.
usmarine
Banned
+2,785|7064

Explain non lethal defense to me?

I do not own a gun, but I have a pitching wedge and a big ass mag light at my disposal.  I am fairly positive I can make those objects lethal.

Now, If I did own I gun, I cannot say how I would react in that situation.  But in all honesty, they would have gotten a pitching wedge upside their heads.

Last edited by usmarine2005 (2008-01-01 01:26:39)

Heavy_Guns_91
I hand out purple hearts like candy
+72|6705|Alberta, Canada

usmarine2005 wrote:

Explain non lethal defense to me?
Tasers!!!

Oh, wait...
usmarine
Banned
+2,785|7064

Well if you are not prepared to kill, then it is not defense.  I really need a good definition of this term.
Burwhale
Save the BlobFish!
+136|6525|Brisneyland
If he shot 2 robbers entering his property then thats pretty understandable. However he left his yard went next door against the advice of the emergency services people on the phone, all the while saying he was going to kill them. Then he issued them with a warning ( which they possibly couldnt understand anyway), but when they ran he shot them in the back. Since he actively and willingly approached these robbers it is not defense. Since he spent some time thinking about it and discussing it with the emergency services worker on the phone, it was pre meditated. By those definitions it sounds like pre-meditated murder to me.
Little BaBy JESUS
m8
+394|6451|'straya

Burwhale the Avenger wrote:

If he shot 2 robbers entering his property then thats pretty understandable. However he left his yard went next door against the advice of the emergency services people on the phone, all the while saying he was going to kill them. Then he issued them with a warning ( which they possibly couldnt understand anyway), but when they ran he shot them in the back. Since he actively and willingly approached these robbers it is not defense. Since he spent some time thinking about it and discussing it with the emergency services worker on the phone, it was pre meditated. By those definitions it sounds like pre-meditated murder to me.
agreed... he took the fight to them... thats not defense (and dont even bother saying shit like "offense is the best defense")

it wasnt his property... there was no need to go over there. it was stupid on his behalf... sure they were robbing the place... seems abit unnessesary to shoot them while they were running away and werent a risk to him
SharkyMcshark
I'll take two
+132|7087|Perth, Western Australia

usmarine2005 wrote:

Explain non lethal defense to me?
Shooting them in the legs. Not aiming for centre mass.

How about not shooting fleeing people to begin with?
Nappy
Apprentice
+151|6531|NSW, Australia

i heard that a few months ago?
Little BaBy JESUS
m8
+394|6451|'straya
also non lethal... but rubber slugs loaded into shotgun seem more appropriate for home defense
GunSlinger OIF II
Banned.
+1,860|6946

Nappy wrote:

i heard that a few months ago?
yes you did?
Moo? Si!
Tall, Dark, Antlered
+39|6431|817---->907

SharkyMcshark wrote:

The main argument against gun control* is that sane people with a registered gun do not snap and kill other people. Well this proves otherwise
Let's go ahead and retract the 2nd amendment because one guy kills two more than likely low-lives.  All of us gun owners are going to shoot criminals because the proof is right here.  Case Closed!
SharkyMcshark
I'll take two
+132|7087|Perth, Western Australia

Moo? Si! wrote:

SharkyMcshark wrote:

The main argument against gun control* is that sane people with a registered gun do not snap and kill other people. Well this proves otherwise
Let's go ahead and retract the 2nd amendment because one guy kills two more than likely low-lives.  All of us gun owners are going to shoot criminals because the proof is right here.  Case Closed!
So can you point out where I said that? Because I don't think I did.
Little BaBy JESUS
m8
+394|6451|'straya

SharkyMcshark wrote:

Moo? Si! wrote:

SharkyMcshark wrote:

The main argument against gun control* is that sane people with a registered gun do not snap and kill other people. Well this proves otherwise
Let's go ahead and retract the 2nd amendment because one guy kills two more than likely low-lives.  All of us gun owners are going to shoot criminals because the proof is right here.  Case Closed!
So can you point out where I said that? Because I don't think I did.
sure not all gun owners will kill criminals. i noted ur sarcasm yet... removing the 2nd amendment isnt such a bad idea (although there would prob be an uprising of the ppl so its not really plausible)
*=]AD[=*Pro_NL
Member
+77|6931|The Netherlands

GunSlinger OIF II wrote:

Nappy wrote:

i heard that a few months ago?
yes you did?
omg no! ...............
Moo? Si!
Tall, Dark, Antlered
+39|6431|817---->907

Little BaBy JESUS wrote:

SharkyMcshark wrote:

Moo? Si! wrote:

Let's go ahead and retract the 2nd amendment because one guy kills two more than likely low-lives.  All of us gun owners are going to shoot criminals because the proof is right here.  Case Closed!
So can you point out where I said that? Because I don't think I did.
sure not all gun owners will kill criminals. i noted ur sarcasm yet... removing the 2nd amendment isnt such a bad idea (although there would prob be an uprising of the ppl so its not really plausible)
It's my opinion the 2nd Amendment is more relavent now than ever.

Last edited by Moo? Si! (2008-01-01 03:15:02)

Moo? Si!
Tall, Dark, Antlered
+39|6431|817---->907

SharkyMcshark wrote:

Moo? Si! wrote:

SharkyMcshark wrote:

The main argument against gun control* is that sane people with a registered gun do not snap and kill other people. Well this proves otherwise
Let's go ahead and retract the 2nd amendment because one guy kills two more than likely low-lives.  All of us gun owners are going to shoot criminals because the proof is right here.  Case Closed!
So can you point out where I said that? Because I don't think I did.

SharkyMcshark wrote:

sane people with a registered gun do not snap and kill other people. Well this proves otherwise
SharkyMcshark
I'll take two
+132|7087|Perth, Western Australia

Moo? Si! wrote:

SharkyMcshark wrote:

The main argument against gun control* is that sane people with a registered gun do not snap and kill other people. Well this proves otherwise
Let's go ahead and retract the 2nd amendment because one guy kills two more than likely low-lives. All of us gun owners are going to shoot criminals because the proof is right here.  Case Closed!
I clearly did not say all gun owners. I just said that it proves the proposition that people with legally acquired firearms are no threat wrong.
Moo? Si!
Tall, Dark, Antlered
+39|6431|817---->907
Fair enough
FEOS
Bellicose Yankee Air Pirate
+1,182|6713|'Murka

SharkyMcshark wrote:

usmarine2005 wrote:

Explain non lethal defense to me?
Shooting them in the legs. Not aiming for centre mass.

How about not shooting fleeing people to begin with?
Sean Taylor (pro football player) was shot in the leg. He died. Life isn't a damn adventure movie where you easily shoot the gun out of someone's hand or kneecap them from 50 ft away.
“Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.”
― Albert Einstein

Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular
SharkyMcshark
I'll take two
+132|7087|Perth, Western Australia

FEOS wrote:

SharkyMcshark wrote:

usmarine2005 wrote:

Explain non lethal defense to me?
Shooting them in the legs. Not aiming for centre mass.

How about not shooting fleeing people to begin with?
Sean Taylor (pro football player) was shot in the leg. He died. Life isn't a damn adventure movie where you easily shoot the gun out of someone's hand or kneecap them from 50 ft away.
I get that. But the point that I was trying to make was that this guy obviously went out there intending to kill them and aimed his shotgun accordingly and deliberately.

Just to clarify what I mean to say is there was no effort on his part to like... not kill them as it were.

Last edited by SharkyMcshark (2008-01-01 04:00:09)

FEOS
Bellicose Yankee Air Pirate
+1,182|6713|'Murka

And I'm sure he will be punished for what is clearly a crime. He was warned by the 911 operator not to do anything, that his actions would be illegal.
“Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.”
― Albert Einstein

Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular
wah1188
You orrible caaaaaaan't
+321|6762|UK
Excessive force indeed I agree with the rubber slugs thats quite a good idea. Still them people shouldn't have been there unless they just kicked a football over and were getting it back.
Ajax_the_Great1
Dropped on request
+206|6949
Two less douchebags to worry about.
DrunkFace
Germans did 911
+427|6983|Disaster Free Zone

Moo? Si! wrote:

SharkyMcshark wrote:

The main argument against gun control* is that sane people with a registered gun do not snap and kill other people. Well this proves otherwise
Let's go ahead and retract the 2nd amendment because one guy kills two more than likely low-lives.  All of us gun owners are going to shoot criminals because the proof is right here.  Case Closed!
Where in the second amendment does it say you are allowed to use 'arms' for self defence or more importantly vigilant missions?
AussieReaper
( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
+5,761|6455|what

If you shoot someone in the back, you just fire a 2nd shot into the air soon after. Witnesses will say they heard two shots fired. When you give your statement to authorities, you say you fired into the air as a warning shot. Told them not to move. And then they took off, resulting in your 2nd (lethal) shot.
https://i.imgur.com/maVpUMN.png

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