Poll

Paedophilia - Condition or choice?

Mental Condition57%57% - 89
Choosen path37%37% - 57
Other5%5% - 8
Total: 154
mikkel
Member
+383|6597

Kmarion wrote:

mikkel wrote:

lowing wrote:

mikkel wrote:

What, like HIV?
Nope, last I checked, people with HIV were not removed from society, but hey, I have been gone awhile.
But isn't HIV a sickness with no cure and a potential to harm others, too? In fact, isn't it very likely that the number of people who die as a result of deliberate HIV infections is higher than the number of children who are sexually abused? Why shouldn't the same happen to HIV patients? It's exactly the same premise. HIV patients can either infect others or abstain for the rest of their lives. Paedophiles can either molest children or abstain from sex with minors.
We don't know exactly how many kids are abused. Children are often embarrassed, scared, and threatened in order to keep them from reporting it.
Well, obviously. That's why I suggest that no one could come up with any significant numbers. The sheer scale of the HIV problem makes it likely to me, though.

Defiance wrote:

mikkel wrote:

lowing wrote:


Nope, last I checked, people with HIV were not removed from society, but hey, I have been gone awhile.
But isn't HIV a sickness with no cure and a potential to harm others, too? In fact, isn't it very likely that the number of people who die as a result of deliberate HIV infections is higher than the number of children who are sexually abused? Why shouldn't the same happen to HIV patients? It's exactly the same premise. HIV patients can either infect others or abstain for the rest of their lives. Paedophiles can either molest children or abstain from sex with minors.
Child molesters by nature are a harm to others. They only are what they are because they've harmed others. An HIV patient is the opposite, more likely then not they are what they are because of an accident or someone hurting them (it's been a while since a deliberate HIV attack). If they get treatment, they can live and possibly (in one case) be pseudo cured. They can still have sex without doing harm, they just have to be very careful.
A paedophile is not necessarily a child molester. A person suffering from HIV is not necessarily well-intentioned. Both can have sex without doing harm. The person suffering from HIV by being very careful, and the paedophile by not having sex with children.
zeidmaan
Member
+234|6411|Vienna

lowing wrote:

zeidmaan wrote:

I think its a mental condition that you are born with. And I agree that many of them just cant help them selves.
A big mistake is to just treat it is a choice and lock pedophiles away for x years. Societies need to accept it for what it is and actually try to solve the problem to protect the kids. No matter how many pedophilees you lock away, more of them will be born. And the ones you locked away will eventualy get out of prison and do it again. Its a problem that needs to be tackeled with brains not emotions. Our kids deserve it from us.
Pedophilia is a sickness with no cure. It should be recognized it for what it is, then remove the bastards permanently from society as they are exposed.
Naah thats the emotions talking and its unrealistic. Nothing should be declared uncureable. Its just that efforts should be made and money should be spend to try to solve that problem. Unfortunately people would scream and say that the pedophiles dont deserve bunch of doctors trying to cure them and spending billions of $$ on them. Just lock them away, dont help the bastards. Its a common emotional reaction. But its totaly wrong. Our KIDS deserve bunch of doctors and billions of $$ working to cure pedophiles.

Unrealistic solutions are a waste of time/money/effort etc. Its like spending ungodly ammount of money trying to raise peoples awareness about Global Warming thinking it will solve the problem. BS.
Defiance
Member
+438|6667

mikkel wrote:

A paedophile is not necessarily a child molester. A person suffering from HIV is not necessarily well-intentioned. Both can have sex without doing harm. The person suffering from HIV by being very careful, and the paedophile by not having sex with children.
My original point was missed. Pedophiles, regardless of other traits, are harmful to society. It's appropriate that under some radical legal system they would be shot on sight. However, an HIV positive person is rarely a harm to society. They pose a potential harm, but so does everyone else who has a heartbeat.

If the pedophile didn't have sex with children, then they wouldn't be a pedophile, and wouldn't be a problem. If they were once a pedophile, got treatment and are now constructive members of society we don't have to worry about them anymore.

Secondly, a pedophile is not always a child molester but that depends on the consent of the child. Either way, it's illegal.
lavadisk
I am a cat ¦ 3
+369|6825|Denver colorado

Defiance wrote:

mikkel wrote:

A paedophile is not necessarily a child molester. A person suffering from HIV is not necessarily well-intentioned. Both can have sex without doing harm. The person suffering from HIV by being very careful, and the paedophile by not having sex with children.
My original point was missed. Pedophiles, regardless of other traits, are harmful to society. It's appropriate that under some radical legal system they would be shot on sight. However, an HIV positive person is rarely a harm to society. They pose a potential harm, but so does everyone else who has a heartbeat.

If the pedophile didn't have sex with children, then they wouldn't be a pedophile, and wouldn't be a problem. If they were once a pedophile, got treatment and are now constructive members of society we don't have to worry about them anymore.

Secondly, a pedophile is not always a child molester but that depends on the consent of the child. Either way, it's illegal.
Pedophilia, paedophilia or pædophilia (see spelling differences) is the paraphilia of being sexually attracted primarily or exclusively to prepubescent or peripubescent children. A person with this attraction is called a pedophile or paedophile.

Its just the element of attraction dude. your confusing them with rapists and molesters (and obviously it overlaps sometimes )
Defiance
Member
+438|6667

lavadisk wrote:

Defiance wrote:

mikkel wrote:

A paedophile is not necessarily a child molester. A person suffering from HIV is not necessarily well-intentioned. Both can have sex without doing harm. The person suffering from HIV by being very careful, and the paedophile by not having sex with children.
My original point was missed. Pedophiles, regardless of other traits, are harmful to society. It's appropriate that under some radical legal system they would be shot on sight. However, an HIV positive person is rarely a harm to society. They pose a potential harm, but so does everyone else who has a heartbeat.

If the pedophile didn't have sex with children, then they wouldn't be a pedophile, and wouldn't be a problem. If they were once a pedophile, got treatment and are now constructive members of society we don't have to worry about them anymore.

Secondly, a pedophile is not always a child molester but that depends on the consent of the child. Either way, it's illegal.
Pedophilia, paedophilia or pædophilia (see spelling differences) is the paraphilia of being sexually attracted primarily or exclusively to prepubescent or peripubescent children. A person with this attraction is called a pedophile or paedophile.

Its just the element of attraction dude. your confusing them with rapists and molesters (and obviously it overlaps sometimes )
When two adults of legal age have sex, that's just what it is. When one forces another to have sex, that's rape. What if that other person is a child? If it's non consensual, there's child molestation. If it is consensual, and the child is a teenager a few years shy of the Age of Consent, then it's called statutory rape. What about the very young, pre-pubescent children? Legally it's been labeled pedophilia.

We're working from two different sources, but it doesn't change the difference between the harm a child rapist or pedophile or X can do as compared to someone who's HIV positive.
mikkel
Member
+383|6597

Defiance wrote:

mikkel wrote:

A paedophile is not necessarily a child molester. A person suffering from HIV is not necessarily well-intentioned. Both can have sex without doing harm. The person suffering from HIV by being very careful, and the paedophile by not having sex with children.
My original point was missed. Pedophiles, regardless of other traits, are harmful to society. It's appropriate that under some radical legal system they would be shot on sight. However, an HIV positive person is rarely a harm to society. They pose a potential harm, but so does everyone else who has a heartbeat.

If the pedophile didn't have sex with children, then they wouldn't be a pedophile, and wouldn't be a problem. If they were once a pedophile, got treatment and are now constructive members of society we don't have to worry about them anymore.

Secondly, a pedophile is not always a child molester but that depends on the consent of the child. Either way, it's illegal.
How are perpetually latent paedophiles harmful to society? They don't do anything that you wouldn't do.

Paedophilia is attraction to children. Intercourse is not, and has never been a prerequisite for paedophilia. It's just the attraction, and nothing more. It's not illegal to be a paedophile. It's illegal to be a child molester.
lavadisk
I am a cat ¦ 3
+369|6825|Denver colorado

mikkel wrote:

Defiance wrote:

mikkel wrote:

A paedophile is not necessarily a child molester. A person suffering from HIV is not necessarily well-intentioned. Both can have sex without doing harm. The person suffering from HIV by being very careful, and the paedophile by not having sex with children.
My original point was missed. Pedophiles, regardless of other traits, are harmful to society. It's appropriate that under some radical legal system they would be shot on sight. However, an HIV positive person is rarely a harm to society. They pose a potential harm, but so does everyone else who has a heartbeat.

If the pedophile didn't have sex with children, then they wouldn't be a pedophile, and wouldn't be a problem. If they were once a pedophile, got treatment and are now constructive members of society we don't have to worry about them anymore.

Secondly, a pedophile is not always a child molester but that depends on the consent of the child. Either way, it's illegal.
How are perpetually latent paedophiles harmful to society? They don't do anything that you wouldn't do.

Paedophilia is attraction to children. Intercourse is not, and has never been a prerequisite for paedophilia. It's just the attraction, and nothing more. It's not illegal to be a paedophile. It's illegal to be a child molester.
exactly. Just as it's illegal to be a 'normal' rapist.
Kmar
Truth is my Bitch
+5,695|6596|132 and Bush

mikkel wrote:

Kmarion wrote:

mikkel wrote:

But isn't HIV a sickness with no cure and a potential to harm others, too? In fact, isn't it very likely that the number of people who die as a result of deliberate HIV infections is higher than the number of children who are sexually abused? Why shouldn't the same happen to HIV patients? It's exactly the same premise. HIV patients can either infect others or abstain for the rest of their lives. Paedophiles can either molest children or abstain from sex with minors.
We don't know exactly how many kids are abused. Children are often embarrassed, scared, and threatened in order to keep them from reporting it.
Well, obviously. That's why I suggest that no one could come up with any significant numbers. The sheer scale of the HIV problem makes it likely to me, though.
I was adding to your statement, not challenging it... obviously.
Xbone Stormsurgezz
mikkel
Member
+383|6597

Kmarion wrote:

mikkel wrote:

Kmarion wrote:


We don't know exactly how many kids are abused. Children are often embarrassed, scared, and threatened in order to keep them from reporting it.
Well, obviously. That's why I suggest that no one could come up with any significant numbers. The sheer scale of the HIV problem makes it likely to me, though.
I was adding to your statement, not challenging it... obviously.
Very obvious.
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,810|6101|eXtreme to the maX
Condition or choice, if they act on it lock them up.
Русский военный корабль, иди на хуй!
lowing
Banned
+1,662|6647|USA

zeidmaan wrote:

lowing wrote:

zeidmaan wrote:

I think its a mental condition that you are born with. And I agree that many of them just cant help them selves.
A big mistake is to just treat it is a choice and lock pedophiles away for x years. Societies need to accept it for what it is and actually try to solve the problem to protect the kids. No matter how many pedophilees you lock away, more of them will be born. And the ones you locked away will eventualy get out of prison and do it again. Its a problem that needs to be tackeled with brains not emotions. Our kids deserve it from us.
Pedophilia is a sickness with no cure. It should be recognized it for what it is, then remove the bastards permanently from society as they are exposed.
Naah thats the emotions talking and its unrealistic. Nothing should be declared uncureable. Its just that efforts should be made and money should be spend to try to solve that problem. Unfortunately people would scream and say that the pedophiles dont deserve bunch of doctors trying to cure them and spending billions of $$ on them. Just lock them away, dont help the bastards. Its a common emotional reaction. But its totaly wrong. Our KIDS deserve bunch of doctors and billions of $$ working to cure pedophiles.

Unrealistic solutions are a waste of time/money/effort etc. Its like spending ungodly ammount of money trying to raise peoples awareness about Global Warming thinking it will solve the problem. BS.
Ok well, once a molestor is "cured" he can simply move in next door to you and your kids so we can gauge how well rehab is working out.
Turquoise
O Canada
+1,596|6401|North Carolina
Pedophiles are insane.  I realize mental illness is a tricky thing to define, but being sexually attracted to children (especially prepubescent ones) is just not natural or sane.

What makes this issue rather difficult to understand, however, is that being attracted to people who have reached a certain development stage during adolescence is natural and sane.

The easiest way for me to explain it is...  If you're an adult, it is natural to be attracted to a 16 year old, but it is unnatural to be attracted to a 12 year old.  Legality makes things even more complicated, since different areas define adulthood differently (via things like the age of consent).

Add to this the fact that people physically mature at different rates and different ages, and the lines begin to blur further.

The safest way for the average adult to deal with this whole issue is to simply make sure that whoever you date is at least 18, and there are no legal or psychological worries.  Of course, a true pedophile will find this rather difficult, because their attractions to younger people are typically very strong.

Since most societies generally regard pedophilia as more of a criminal act rather than a symptom of insanity, it is difficult for people who are pedophiles to actually seek help before they hurt someone.  If we treated this mindset as a mental illness rather than just criminal, then we'd likely be able to treat these people and prevent thousands of children from being abused.
XanKrieger
iLurk
+60|6654|South West England
It's both, it's similar to me having the natural desire to hurt and maime people, it's there and it's dictative over what I do and who I am, but I chose not to act on it.

Similar instance with Paedophiles, they are usualy naturaly attracted to innocence and extreme youth, but it's there choice (with a combination of willpower as well) as to wether or not to act on this and seek.... sex with minors O.o
David.P
Banned
+649|6269
Dont start shit about me reviving this!





You know what i just realized? There's 2 kinds of this shit. Born into it and Made into it. How can you differentiate between the 2?

You know what i also realized? I can control my violent outbursts but will act on them if pushed, Is it the same for these people? Fucked up in the sexual sense not physical.





EDIT: I did'nt really feel like making a new fucken topic! So dont give me shit! Really dont!

Last edited by David.P (2008-01-26 21:38:42)

clogar
damn ain't it great to be a laxer
+32|5951|Minnesota
pretty damn sure it's a choice, i have no sympathy for them.
David.P
Banned
+649|6269

clogar wrote:

pretty damn sure it's a choice, i have no sympathy for them.
But i wanna why they choose it. If i say homosexuality is a choice i'll get flamed!

But these 2 are anything like my problems then what did they develop out of? I Mean i chose to go down the violent path after what it got me. Why would they choose to be gay or pedo? What made them do it?
Darkhelmet
cereal killer
+233|6746|the middle of nowhere
No, of course it's not a choice. A little robot is hooked up to the person's head, takes control of his brain, and forces him to become a pedophile (BLATANT SARCASM).
Soldier-Of-Wasteland
Mephistopheles
+40|6652|Land of the Very Cold

Turquoise wrote:

Pedophiles are insane.  I realize mental illness is a tricky thing to define, but being sexually attracted to children (especially prepubescent ones) is just not natural or sane.

What makes this issue rather difficult to understand, however, is that being attracted to people who have reached a certain development stage during adolescence is natural and sane.

The easiest way for me to explain it is...  If you're an adult, it is natural to be attracted to a 16 year old, but it is unnatural to be attracted to a 12 year old.  Legality makes things even more complicated, since different areas define adulthood differently (via things like the age of consent).

Add to this the fact that people physically mature at different rates and different ages, and the lines begin to blur further.

The safest way for the average adult to deal with this whole issue is to simply make sure that whoever you date is at least 18, and there are no legal or psychological worries.  Of course, a true pedophile will find this rather difficult, because their attractions to younger people are typically very strong.

Since most societies generally regard pedophilia as more of a criminal act rather than a symptom of insanity, it is difficult for people who are pedophiles to actually seek help before they hurt someone.  If we treated this mindset as a mental illness rather than just criminal, then we'd likely be able to treat these people and prevent thousands of children from being abused.
Exactly. Which reminds me of something I saw on TV the other (but which is a whole different topic) about kids being hurt or killed with furniture in their own home. Apparently very few cases are reported because the parents fear that their kids could be taken away because of bad parenting. In the end the problems never get solved and both ends suffer.
clogar
damn ain't it great to be a laxer
+32|5951|Minnesota

David.P wrote:

clogar wrote:

pretty damn sure it's a choice, i have no sympathy for them.
But i wanna why they choose it. If i say homosexuality is a choice i'll get flamed!

But these 2 are anything like my problems then what did they develop out of? I Mean i chose to go down the violent path after what it got me. Why would they choose to be gay or pedo? What made them do it?
i think being gay is a choice so i probably wouldn't be able to give you an answer you would like.
David.P
Banned
+649|6269

clogar wrote:

i think being gay is a choice so i probably wouldn't be able to give you an answer you would like.
I think it's both. You have to have something cause you to do this! And being born with something that makes you choose it.
HurricaИe
Banned
+877|5957|Washington DC
Why would someone choose to be gay or pedo? Pedos disturb me (unlike gays) but regardless, both gays and pedos are generally shunned from society. Why you would choose to be looked down upon by many people is beyond me.
ATG
Banned
+5,233|6525|Global Command
I say chosen, but either way, there is no room in this world for baby rapers and they should get the death penalty on the first offense.
Morpheus
This shit still going?
+508|5995|The Mitten
I said mental condition......

I think this is something like homosexuality, people just can't really explain why they are the way they are.... BUT, they CAN choose to act on this or not, i.e, because they like children, doesn't make them a perfect candidate for a teacher, so don't be a teacher. Be a... something that doesn't involve kids.
EE (hats
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,810|6101|eXtreme to the maX
Mental condition.
As I understand it children register as sexually attractive, adults as sexually repulsive - the exact opposite from the way normal people's brains are fixed. Its almost as simple as a crossed wire, and I don't believe it can be 'fixed' by any amount of treatment.

They also appear attracted to plainly pre-pubescent children, even babies, there is no grey area of teens which could be used as an excuse.
They seem to believe fervently they are normal and the rest of the world is wrong, exactly as normal people believe about them.

There is a common element of sadism and revenge - my childhood was f$cked, I'm going to make damn sure some other kids life is f$cked up for them. These are the truly dangerous ones as they go after as many victims as they can get hold of.
Having said that, both gays and pedos are often highly selfish and very promiscuous without caring about the consequences. Maybe the predatory pedos are just nasty, selfish and highly driven but have no actual excuse.
No real victim I know of has ever expressed an interest in harming a child, but many pedos blame their actions on abuse they have suffered.
Probably its just a warped justifcation with no basis in fact.

If they seem intent on acting on their impulses, take whatever steps required to keep them away from children.
If they act on it, lock them up.

No child's wellbeing can be compromised, the long term effects once adults can also be appalling.
(I do have some experience dealing with paedophiles and the aftermath, although I'm no expert so the above is mostly opinion and observation)

Last edited by Dilbert_X (2008-01-27 03:34:47)

Русский военный корабль, иди на хуй!
RDMC
Enemy Wheelbarrow Spotted..!!
+736|6561|Area 51

keyoshi wrote:

Mental condition imo. Would you choose to want to have sex with kids?
NAMBLA

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