BF2S Forums Who would be our Enemys Then ?

Stargrove wrote:

A brief history of Israel
================
The people of Israel (also called the "Jewish People") trace their origin to Abraham, who established the belief that there is only one God, the creator of the universe (see Old Testament). Abraham, his son Yitshak (Isaac), and grandson Jacob (Israel), are referred to as the patriarchs of the Israelites. All three patriarchs lived in the Land of Canaan, that later came to be known as the Land of Israel. They and their wives are buried in the Ma'arat HaMachpela, the Tomb of the Patriarchs, in Hebron.

The name Israel derives from the name given to Jacob (see Old Testament). His 12 sons were the kernels of 12 tribes that later developed into the Jewish nation. The name Jew derives from Yehuda (Judah) one of the 12 sons of Jacob. So, the names Israel, Israeli or Jewish refer to people of the same origin.

The descendants of Abraham crystallized into a nation at about 1300 BC after their Exodus from Egypt under the leadership of Moses (Moshe in Hebrew). Soon after the Exodus, Moses transmitted to the people of this new emerging nation, the Torah, and the Ten Commandments. After 40 years in the Sinai desert, Moses led them to the Land of Israel, that is cited in The Bible as the land promised by G-d to the descendants of the patriarchs, Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.

The people of modern day Israel share the same language and culture shaped by the Jewish heritage and religion passed through generations starting with the founding father Abraham (ca. 1800 BC). Thus, Jews have had continuous presence in the land of Israel for the past 3,300 years.

The rule of Israelites in the land of Israel starts with the conquests of Joshua (ca. 1250 BCE). The period from 1000-587 BCE is known as the "Period of the Kings". The most noteworthy kings were King David (1010-970 BCE), who made Jerusalem the Capital of Israel, and his son Solomon (Shlomo, 970-931 BCE), who built the first Temple in Jerusalem as prescribed in the Tanach (Old Testament).

In 587 BCE, Babylonian Nebuchadnezzar's army captured Jerusalem, destroyed the Temple, and exiled the Jews to Babylon (modern day Iraq).

The year 587 BCE marks a turning point in the history of the region. From this year onwards, the region was ruled or controlled by a succession of superpower empires of the time in the following order: Babylonian, Persian, Greek Hellenistic, Roman and Byzantine Empires, Islamic and Christian crusaders, Ottoman Empire, and the British Empire.

Some of the countries that have ruled in Israel:
587BC            Babalon          Destruction of the First Templ

538-222BC      Persian           Return of the exiled Jews from Babylon and construction of the second Temple

333-63BC       Helenistic         Conquest of the region by the army of Alexander the Great (333 BCE). The Greeks generally allowed the Jews to run their state. But, during the rule of the king Antiochus IV, the Temple was desecrated. This brought about the revolt of the Maccabees, who established an independent rule.

63BC-313AD   Roman            The Roman army led by Titus conquered Jerusalem and destroyed the Second Temple at 70 CE. Jewish people were then exiled and dispersed to other parts of the world.  Bar Kokhba organized a revolt against Roman rule, but was killed in a battle in Bethar in Judean Hills. Subsequently the Romans decimated the Jewish community, renamed Jerusalem as Aelia Capitolina and Judea as Palaestina to obliterate Jewish identification with the Land of Israel (the word Palestine, and the Arabic word Filastin originate from this Latin name).  The remaining Jewish community moved to northern towns in the Galilee.

313-636          Byzantine

636-1099        Arab             Dome of the Rock was built by Caliph Abd el-Malik on the grounds of the destroyed Jewish Temple.

1099-1291      Crusaders     The crusaders came from Europe to capture the Holy Land following an appeal by Pope Urban II, and massacred the non-Christian population. Later Jewish community in Jerusalem expanded by immigration of Jews from Europe.

1291-1516      Malmuk

1516-1918      Ottoman         During the reign of Sultan Suleiman the Magnificent (1520-1566) the walls of the Old City of Jerusalem were rebuilt. Population of the Jewish community in Jerusalem increased.

1917-1948      British             Great Britain recognized the rights of the Jewish people to establish a "national home in Palestine". Yet they greatly curtailed entry of Jewish refugees into Israel even after World War II. They split Palestine mandate into an Arab state which has become the modern day Jordan, and Israel. 
==================

My two cents:

When the Israelites originally settled the area it was known as Canaann about 1800BC.  This area was actually much larger than what is now modern day Israel.  Since there is no one claiming to want the land in the name of the Canaanites, I think that probably settles the argument as to who was there first.

I do not think that Israel, in it's current incarnation, could have been anywhere but where it is now.  It is the histroic land of the Israelites (or whatever ancient name you want to give them).

--Now to the original question of this topic, "Do you think the World would be as Polarized if we had not, in 1947 Created a Nation in a Land that was already occupied for centuries?"

Maybe, maybe not.  Seems like a cop, out answer, huh?  The extremist muslims seem to have three major beefs with us.  1) Our support of Israel, 2) Our troops on any muslim soil and 3) Support of corrupt arab regimes (in their eyes).  I am sure there are others.  Now, if you take away #1, You still have #2 & #3 and since we still need their oil and for the region to remain somewhat stable, they would probably still have a  problem with us.  There are also the fanatics that believe that all non-muslims should convert or die.  I think that things would have taken longer to get to the point we are at today, but we probably would have still gotten there.

Sorry for the long post,

Stargrove

BTW: The Israelites are Arabs

atlvolunteer wrote:

I do think that the biggest "motivation" muslims have to hate the US and other western countries is our support of Israel.
In all actuality, though, we didn't just "give" Palestine to the Jews.  Jews actually started moving to the area before 1900.  A lot moved from Russia; they were being massacred there.  Then there were major movements by Jews to buy up as much of the land as possible.
After WWII, I think there was a rebellion, so the Brits said "Fuck this" and pulled out.  The Jews seized control.
I could be wrong on some of the facts, and welcome anyone who has better information than I.
EDIT:  Regardless, I don't think we should back Israel like we do.  It just makes matters worse.

wannabe_tank_whore wrote:

atlvolunteer wrote:

I do think that the biggest "motivation" muslims have to hate the US and other western countries is our support of Israel.
In all actuality, though, we didn't just "give" Palestine to the Jews.  Jews actually started moving to the area before 1900.  A lot moved from Russia; they were being massacred there.  Then there were major movements by Jews to buy up as much of the land as possible.
After WWII, I think there was a rebellion, so the Brits said "Fuck this" and pulled out.  The Jews seized control.
I could be wrong on some of the facts, and welcome anyone who has better information than I.
EDIT:  Regardless, I don't think we should back Israel like we do.  It just makes matters worse.

Way off:
http://www.mideastweb.org/briefhistory.htm

"Roman rulers put down Jewish revolts in about A.D. 70 and A.D. 132. In A.D. 135, the Romans drove the Jews out of Jerusalem. The Romans named the area Palaestina, at about this time. The name Palaestina, which became Palestine in English."

In the nineteenth century new social currents animated Jewish life. The emancipation of European Jews, signaled by the French revolution, brought Jews out of the Ghetto and into the modern world, exposing them to modern ideas. The liberal concepts introduced by  emancipation and modern nationalist ideas were blended with traditional Jewish ideas about Israel and Zion. The marriage of "love of Zion" with modern nationalism took place first among the Sephardic (Spanish and Eastern) Jewish community of Europe. There, the tradition of living in the land of the Jews and return to Zion had remained practical goals rather than messianic aspirations, and  Hebrew was a living language. Rabbi Yehuda Alcalay, who lived in what is now Yugoslavia, published the first Zionist writings in the 1840s. Though practically forgotten, these ideas took root among a few European Jews. Emancipation of Jews triggered a new type of virulent anti-Jewish political and social movement in Europe, particularly in Germany and Eastern Europe. Beginning in the late 1800's, oppression of Jews in Eastern Europe stimulated emigration of Jews to Palestine.

The Zionist movement became a formal organization in 1897 with the first Zionist congress in Basle, organized by Theodor Herzl Herzl's grandfather was acquainted with the writings of Alcalay, and it is very probable that Herzl was influenced by them. The Zionists wished to establish a "Jewish Homeland" in Palestine under Turkish or German rule. They were not concerned about the Arab population, which they ignored, or thought would agree to voluntary transfer to other Arab countries. In any case, they envisioned the population of Palestine by millions of European Jews who would soon form a decisive majority in the land.  The Zionists established farm communities in Palestine at Petah Tikva, Zichron Jacob, Rishon Letzion and elsewhere. Later they established the new city of Tel Aviv, north of Jaffa.  At the same time, Palestine's Arab population grew rapidly. By 1914, the total population of Palestine stood at about 700,000. About 615,000  were Arabs, and 85,000 to 100,000 were Jews.

In the summer of 1945, the Labor party came to power in Great Britain. They had promised that they would reverse the British White Paper and would support a Jewish state in Palestine. However, they presently reneged on their promise, and continued and redoubled efforts to stop Jewish immigration.  The Hagannah attempted to bring immigrants into Palestine illegally.  The rival Zionist underground groups now united, and all of them, in particular the Irgun and Lehi ("Stern gang") dissident terrorist groups, used force to try to drive the British out of Palestine. This included bombing of trains, train stations, an officers club and British headquarters in the King David Hotel, as well as kidnapping and murder of British personnel. In Britain, newspapers and politicians began to demand that the government settle the conflict and stop endangering the lives of British troops.

The US and other countries brought pressure to bear on the British to allow immigration. An Anglo-American Committee of Inquiry recommended allowing 100,000 Jews to immigrate immediately to Palestine.  The Arabs brought pressure on the British to block such immigration. The British found Palestine to be ungovernable and returned the mandate to the United Nations, successor to the League of Nations. The report of the Anglo-American Committee provided a detailed summary of the British mandate period and the security situation in Palestine, as well as a report on the effects of the Holocaust and the condition of European Jewry.

On May 14, 1948, the Jews proclaimed the independent State of Israel, and the British withdrew from Palestine.

wannabe_tank_whore wrote:

I'm sure the jews didn't want to leave either. - "In A.D. 135, the Romans drove the Jews out of Jerusalem.  The Romans named the area Palaestina, at about this time."

Last edited by yUP|Patriots (2006-02-12 08:51:59)