BF2S Forums Science in Texas doomed.

[NeMe$i$.Dr4g0ncl4w] wrote:

Im going to hope you arent serious here. First of all what do you think proves evolution? Scientific facts you say? Oh well I guess you forgot that science cant prove anything, the word science alone tells you that. Any scientist will tell you science proves nothing, it can only theorize. On top of that there are many flaws in the theory, yes theory not fact, of evolution. Another thing, creationism doesnt say "science is wrong and only miracles happen" only an idiot would say that. Creationism also uses science, just not the theory of evolution. Honestly, Id rather believe in creationism than think that humans came from fish who evolved into apes who evolved into cavemen. Evolution can not be proven by anything, it will always stay a theory. Teachers and scientists who force this on people like it is a fact are wrong. You cant prove evolution, you cant prove creationism. Its all a matter of belief, but ill say evolution is the stupidest story I have ever heard.

Pick your definition of theory:

In common usage, people often use the word theory to signify a conjecture, an opinion, or a speculation. In this usage, a theory is not necessarily based on facts; in other words, it is not required to be consistent with true descriptions of reality. True descriptions of reality are more reflectively understood as statements that would be true independently of what people think about them. In this usage, the word is synonymous with hypothesis.

In science, a theory is a mathematical or logical explanation, or a testable model of the manner of interaction of a set of natural phenomena, capable of predicting future occurrences or observations of the same kind, and capable of being tested through experiment or otherwise falsified through empirical observation. It follows from this that for scientists "theory" and "fact" do not necessarily stand in opposition. For example, it is a fact that an apple dropped on earth has been observed to fall towards the center of the planet, and the theories commonly used to describe and explain this behavior are Newton's theory of universal gravitation, and general relativity.

This discrepancy causes quite the problem when a non-scientist talks to a scientist about theories.

Well, just because one thinks evolution is the answer on how we got here does not mean another thinks that. There is no real way to know without a shadow of doubt who is correct so, I think it's fare to teach the theory of evolution while throwing in the idea that other people believe something else.
Both evolution and religion are flawed by lack of proof.

Read the constitution and post here the part defining the seperation of church and state please.

spacebandit72 wrote:

Well, just because one thinks evolution is the answer on how we got here does not mean another thinks that. There is no real way to know without a shadow of doubt who is correct so, I think it's fare to teach the theory of evolution while throwing in the idea that other people believe something else.
Both evolution and religion are flawed by lack of proof.

Read the constitution and post here the part defining the seperation of church and state please.

The First Amendment to the United States Constitution is a part of the United States Bill of Rights. It prohibits the federal legislature from making laws that establish religion or prohibit free exercise of religion, laws that infringe the freedom of speech, infringe the freedom of the press, limit the right to assemble peaceably, or limit the right to petition the government for a redress of grievances.

Engel v. Vitale (US Supreme Court, 1962):  The case involved a prayer written by the New York Board of Regents. Though the prayer was non-denominational, the Supreme Court deemed it necessary to strike it down. Justice Black wrote, "it is no part of the official business of government to compose official prayers for any group of American people to recite as part of a religious program carried out by the Government."

Wallace v. Jaffree (US Supreme Court, 1985): The Supreme Court struck down an Alabama law whereby students in public schools would observe daily a period of silence for the purpose of private prayer. The Court did not, however, find that the moment of silence was itself unconstitutional. Rather, it ruled that Alabama lawmakers had passed the statute solely to advance religion, thereby violating the secular purpose test.

Those are just a few of the laws and decisions in the US that preclude the government from furthering religion.

Last edited by SenorToenails (2007-07-26 15:02:47)

spacebandit72 wrote:

Well, just because one thinks evolution is the answer on how we got here does not mean another thinks that. There is no real way to know without a shadow of doubt who is correct so, I think it's fare to teach the theory of evolution while throwing in the idea that other people believe something else.

That's absolutely fine, just not in a science class. There is no current scientific theory of creation. The supposed theory of creation the religious extremists try to use only fails on the null hypothesis, fitting the available data, making varifiable predictions and disprovability and any plausability of a mechanism of action. Ie. pretty much every standard used to verify a scientific theory.

spacebandit72 wrote:

Both evolution and religion are flawed by lack of proof.

Evolution is backed by VAST amounts of proof, people just don't think it is. From the most obvious things like bacteria and viruses becoming resistant to drugs and changing which species they can infect. We can watch species evolve! Then there's the other things like Darwin accurately predicting fossils that weren't found till over a hundred years after he died (pretty damned impressive!). We can trace DNA and rNA between species as they evolve. We can see creatures having genetic mutations and altering in both large and tiny ways. We can trace the spread of different DNA strands through the human race as the world became globalised and people from different areas breed. The list of proof really does go on and on and on.

And the proof for creation is bugger all unless you're stupid enough to believe the grand canyon was formed in a week.

This is why we should teach kids evolution and as many of the intricate and wonderful details that acompany it and its proofs.

Bertster7 wrote:

[NeMe$i$.Dr4g0ncl4w] wrote:

I honestly dont see the big deal here. Instead of forcing evolution on everyone like its a fact this guy is just teaching creationism.

Are you from Texas?

Evolution is a fact. Creationism is nonsensical fantasy - that has no place in the classroom.

i think you got that backwards.... lemme fix for u

Creationism is a fact. Evolution is nonsensical fantasy - that has no place in the classroom.

there we go....

Smitty5613 wrote:

Bertster7 wrote:

[NeMe$i$.Dr4g0ncl4w] wrote:

I honestly dont see the big deal here. Instead of forcing evolution on everyone like its a fact this guy is just teaching creationism.

Are you from Texas?

Evolution is a fact. Creationism is nonsensical fantasy - that has no place in the classroom.

i think you got that backwards.... lemme fix for u

Creationism is a fact. Evolution is nonsensical fantasy - that has no place in the classroom.

there we go....

Care to support that belief with evidence or facts? I could smother you in evolutionary science, but I suspect you have little besides the bible and your own warped beliefs to back that statement up.

i thought this thread would be nothing but name calling retardation, but it's actualy not that bad

Smitty5613 wrote:

Bertster7 wrote:

[NeMe$i$.Dr4g0ncl4w] wrote:

I honestly dont see the big deal here. Instead of forcing evolution on everyone like its a fact this guy is just teaching creationism.

Are you from Texas?

Evolution is a fact. Creationism is nonsensical fantasy - that has no place in the classroom.

i think you got that backwards.... lemme fix for u

Creationism is a fact. Evolution is nonsensical fantasy - that has no place in the classroom.

there we go....

I suppose this is what they teach people in "Middle of Nowhere, California."

C'mon, man, you're from Cali.  You're not supposed to be a creationist.  I'm from the Bible Belt.  I should be the one defending this nonsense...  lol

I knew i'd get alot if anti-christianity flaming from a videogame website... u kno that evolution is actually a religion too? one without a god...

Turquoise wrote:

Smitty5613 wrote:

I knew i'd get alot if anti-christianity flaming from a videogame website... u kno that evolution is actually a religion too? one without a god...

I hope you realize that plenty of Christians aren't Creationist.

And evolution is a theory, not a religion.  It requires a certain amount of faith, but it is empirical faith, not spiritual faith.

Exactly, don't try and make out that all Christians follow your beliefs.

Evolution credits those who choose to accept its teachings with a bit more respect and intelligence than creationism. The science of evolution (like all other sciences) attempts wherever possible to prove it's findings through tests and studies. Creationism just says "this is how it was, this is our theory, no real way of proving it, accept it'".

Let's see here.


Believe that a random ball randomly exploded and just happened to make the universe or that a guy that looks like ZZ Top made us?

ZZ Top FTW


BTW, saying a ball came out of nowhere and exploded and happened to create what we see today is fact is just as stupid as saying God did it. No one knows what came before that ball or where it came from. Know why? Because science isn't fact. It's a theory. Just like religion is a faith. Neither one is perfectly right and I'm sure neither one is wrong.


*puts on flame retardant suit and curls up into fetal position*

imortal wrote:

What do you expect of a state that mandates that all school principles learn spanish?

Oh, and Texas will not allow "immersion English" courses (a teaching method where nothing but english is spoken in order to help and force students to pick the language up faster) because they say "studies have shown" that immersion teaching does not work, but offer immersion Spansh courses to anyone who wants to learn Spanish.

So, in a roundabout way, they're implying that Hispanics are too dumb or lazy to handle immersion English...  lol

Warstarz wrote:

BTW, saying a ball came out of nowhere and exploded and happened to create what we see today is fact is just as stupid as saying God did it. No one knows what came before that ball or where it came from. Know why? Because science isn't fact. It's a theory. Just like religion is a faith. Neither one is perfectly right and I'm sure neither one is wrong.


*puts on flame retardant suit and curls up into fetal position*

I like the suit.  Color looks good on you.

Science is different from faith because unless a fact is proven in a repeatable experiment, it remains a theory.  Science gives us the very language to sort out levels of certainty.  Granted, there are some areas of science (current string theory) which borders philosophy precisly because it is currently unprovable.

Oh, and the last theory of the creation of this universe (big bang) may have been caused by two other 'universes' passing through the same dimensional area and making brief contact.  The result of the contact was the creation of our entire universe.

Yes, it is a theory.  Yes, it is currently unprovable.  No, it does not change your life our your outlook on said life.  So, no, I do not think it really matters.