BF2S Forums democrats are really concerned about voter fraud, ya right!!

KEN-JENNINGS wrote:

I wonder how much those politicians like their Diebold machines.  You know, the ones with no paper trail that are prone to hacking and fraud...

Oh my God, Obama restrained from voting!  He probably is a terrorist with no Photo ID to vote on the voting requirement!

So apparently showing ID to prove you have the right to vote in our elections is somehow offensive to you??

The problem is that lots of poor people don't drive and don't have adequate photo ID. I can understand why felons would be barred from voting, but lacking a photo ID doesn't seem like a good enough reason to tell a citizen he can't vote.

topal63 wrote:

lowing wrote:

KEN-JENNINGS wrote:

I wonder how much those politicians like their Diebold machines.  You know, the ones with no paper trail that are prone to hacking and fraud...

Oh my God, Obama restrained from voting!  He probably is a terrorist with no Photo ID to vote on the voting requirement!

So apparently showing ID to prove you have the right to vote in our elections is somehow offensive to you??

The Diebold machine problem - is a system problem. The system lacks veracity. It should not be this way. The current system has no checks to guarantee veracity. The log/original vote count is discarded as part of the current system. On many machines the vote count is uploaded to a centralized server (where they can easily be tampered with). It should be possible to compare the upload with the original vote count (log) prior to upload (but within the current system-framework - you can't - there is only the upload; the original is discarded).

That topic is also addressed in that website but see if you can stick to the OP at least for the first page.

san4 wrote:

The problem is that lots of poor people don't drive and don't have adequate photo ID. I can understand why felons would be barred from voting, but lacking a photo ID doesn't seem like a good enough reason to tell a citizen he can't vote.

If I am not mistaken a even a poor person has a birth certificate that proves nationality. So your issues with this is resolved. Congrats.

lowing wrote:

That topic is also addressed in that website but see if you can stick to the OP at least for the first page.

Yes, and endorsing Diebold machines is essentially a yes-vote for voter fraud with your logic.  So it does pertain to the OP.  It is a valid topic - requiring ID to vote.  Not necessarily photo ID, but proof of citizenship without a doubt.  A bigger topic to me would be the idea that around 25-40% of people eligible actually vote.  That means you can be president of the United States by gaining ~20% of the eligible vote.

Last edited by KEN-JENNINGS (2007-07-23 16:19:26)

lowing wrote:

san4 wrote:

The problem is that lots of poor people don't drive and don't have adequate photo ID. I can understand why felons would be barred from voting, but lacking a photo ID doesn't seem like a good enough reason to tell a citizen he can't vote.

If I am not mistaken a even a poor person has a birth certificate that proves nationality. So your issues with this is resolved. Congrats.

Thank you for the congratulations, but I think it's a little premature. Since when are birth certificates photo ID? Do they have baby pictures attached?

Also, I don't think poor people typically have nice organized file folders to keep stuff in. Not so easy to hang on to a birth certificate (or a photo ID) if you keep getting evicted and/or robbed, and you live in an overcrowded apartment.

ATG wrote:

topal63 wrote:

lowing wrote:

So apparently showing ID to prove you have the right to vote in our elections is somehow offensive to you??

The Diebold machine problem - is a system problem. The system lacks veracity. It should not be this way. The current system has no checks to guarantee veracity. The log/original vote count is discarded as part of the current system. On many machines the vote count is uploaded to a centralized server (where they can easily be tampered with). It should be possible to compare the upload with the original vote count (log) prior to upload (but within the current system-framework - you can't - there is only the upload; the original is discarded).

That is not the subject of this thread and you are derailing.

The subject is the herd like voting of the Democrats, as usual, in a manner that is harmful to our country.

The more I look at the two party system of US voting the more I think any kind of voting is harmful to the country!

san4 wrote:

lowing wrote:

san4 wrote:

The problem is that lots of poor people don't drive and don't have adequate photo ID. I can understand why felons would be barred from voting, but lacking a photo ID doesn't seem like a good enough reason to tell a citizen he can't vote.

If I am not mistaken a even a poor person has a birth certificate that proves nationality. So your issues with this is resolved. Congrats.

Thank you for the congratulations, but I think it's a little premature. Since when are birth certificates photo ID? Do they have baby pictures attached?

Also, I don't think poor people typically have nice organized file folders to keep stuff in. Not so easy to hang on to a birth certificate (or a photo ID) if you keep getting evicted and/or robbed, and you live in an overcrowded apartment.

oops you know what? Ya got me, birth certificates do not have photo ID's. So I do in fact revoke my congratulations.

So I need to try another angle. How about this.


Why??!!, how can someone be so poor in America that they are too poor to have a pocket to keep a positive ID in, not just for voting, but for any damn thing. You are actually taking an stance that basically says, the poor are soooooooooo poor they can not even be positively identified as US citizens? Are you really gunna stand by that?

ATG wrote:

topal63 wrote:

lowing wrote:

So apparently showing ID to prove you have the right to vote in our elections is somehow offensive to you??

The Diebold machine problem - is a system problem. The system lacks veracity. It should not be this way. The current system has no checks to guarantee veracity. The log/original vote count is discarded as part of the current system. On many machines the vote count is uploaded to a centralized server (where they can easily be tampered with). It should be possible to compare the upload with the original vote count (log) prior to upload (but within the current system-framework - you can't - there is only the upload; the original is discarded).

That is not the subject of this thread and you are derailing.

The subject is the herd like voting of the Democrats, as usual, in a manner that is harmful to our country.

The herd-like voting is on both sides, as usual.  I think they (the two parties) are representing the same interests and just use certain topics like illegal immigration, taxes, social welfare, steroids in baseball, etc. to retard the public on the real situations such as exploitation of resources, corporate fraud, economic inconsistencies, raping of the Constitution, failed and misled foreign policy, etc.

Last edited by KEN-JENNINGS (2007-07-23 17:04:26)

Major.League.Infidel wrote:

What about there attempts to get rid of the Military Vote?  http://www.military.com/NewsContent/0,1 … 04,00.html

Shhhhhh, they can only tap dance to 1 song at a time

lowing wrote:

san4 wrote:

lowing wrote:

If I am not mistaken a even a poor person has a birth certificate that proves nationality. So your issues with this is resolved. Congrats.

Thank you for the congratulations, but I think it's a little premature. Since when are birth certificates photo ID? Do they have baby pictures attached?

Also, I don't think poor people typically have nice organized file folders to keep stuff in. Not so easy to hang on to a birth certificate (or a photo ID) if you keep getting evicted and/or robbed, and you live in an overcrowded apartment.

oops you know what? Ya got me, birth certificates do not have photo ID's. So I do in fact revoke my congratulations.

So I need to try another angle. How about this.


Why??!!, how can someone be so poor in America that they are too poor to have a pocket to keep a positive ID in, not just for voting, but for any damn thing. You are actually taking an stance that basically says, the poor are soooooooooo poor they can not even be positively identified as US citizens? Are you really gunna stand by that?

Well, this is probably like the blind arguing with the blind, because I don't hang out with a lot of extremely poor people and I'm guessing from your question you don't either. But I'm good at discussing things I don't know anything about, so here goes. 

The most experience I've had with extremely poor people is indirectly through my brother. He is a lawyer who represents poor people. Many of his clients are too poor to afford telephone service. That's pretty damn poor. People in New Orleans were too poor to buy a bus ticket to save their lives from Katrina. If they need to buy a bus ticket to go get a photo ID, they're going to lose their right to vote.

My brother's clients are constantly getting evicted because they can't pay their rent and their asshole brother-in-law keeps selling drugs out of their apartment. Would you expect homeless people to have photo ID? They lose their job every time they get evicted because they miss work. Would they have to miss work to go get a photo ID? They get robbed all the time because their neighborhoods are filled with crack-addicted scumbags. Big mistake to keep that photo ID in your wallet.

Their lives are chaotic. It's like they live in a hurricane all the time. It's too much to ask to make a fundamental right of American citizens contingent on these people having to go get and hang on to a photo ID.


And +1 to you for conceding a point!

san4 wrote:

lowing wrote:

san4 wrote:

Thank you for the congratulations, but I think it's a little premature. Since when are birth certificates photo ID? Do they have baby pictures attached?

Also, I don't think poor people typically have nice organized file folders to keep stuff in. Not so easy to hang on to a birth certificate (or a photo ID) if you keep getting evicted and/or robbed, and you live in an overcrowded apartment.

oops you know what? Ya got me, birth certificates do not have photo ID's. So I do in fact revoke my congratulations.

So I need to try another angle. How about this.


Why??!!, how can someone be so poor in America that they are too poor to have a pocket to keep a positive ID in, not just for voting, but for any damn thing. You are actually taking an stance that basically says, the poor are soooooooooo poor they can not even be positively identified as US citizens? Are you really gunna stand by that?

Well, this is probably like the blind arguing with the blind, because I don't hang out with a lot of extremely poor people and I'm guessing from your question you don't either. But I'm good at discussing things I don't know anything about, so here goes. 

The most experience I've had with extremely poor people is indirectly through my brother. He is a lawyer who represents poor people. Many of his clients are too poor to afford telephone service. That's pretty damn poor. People in New Orleans were too poor to buy a bus ticket to save their lives from Katrina. If they need to buy a bus ticket to go get a photo ID, they're going to lose their right to vote.

My brother's clients are constantly getting evicted because they can't pay their rent and their asshole brother-in-law keeps selling drugs out of their apartment. Would you expect homeless people to have photo ID? They lose their job every time they get evicted because they miss work. Would they have to miss work to go get a photo ID? They get robbed all the time because their neighborhoods are filled with crack-addicted scumbags. Big mistake to keep that photo ID in your wallet.

Their lives are chaotic. It's like they live in a hurricane all the time. It's too much to ask to make a fundamental right of American citizens contingent on these people having to go get and hang on to a photo ID.


And +1 to you for conceding a point!

This OP has nothing to do with how poor someone is, it is simply to agree or disagree to keep illegal aliens from voting in our elections. The democrats are trying to block legislation that would prevent just that.

I also hope you are not looking for sympathy from me on the poor crackhead that can not afford a bus ticket. Ask of the high timers in here, ya won't get it from me