"cunt-tastic regime"....wow you must be all of 19 years old.....drive on!CameronPoe wrote:
Israel is pretty insane too ye know, they just have the common sense to keep their mouths shut about the less savoury aspects of their pretty cunt-tastic regime.Comrade Ogilvy wrote:
Iran is an insane nation.....
I'm actually 28. But thanks for the misguided assumption. I've been to Israel and I've read and know the background of the situation inside out and there are no other words that describe Israel so succinctly: cunts.Comrade Ogilvy wrote:
"cunt-tastic regime"....wow you must be all of 19 years old.....drive on!CameronPoe wrote:
Israel is pretty insane too ye know, they just have the common sense to keep their mouths shut about the less savoury aspects of their pretty cunt-tastic regime.Comrade Ogilvy wrote:
Iran is an insane nation.....
Last edited by CameronPoe (2007-07-22 17:38:12)
No, he just looks at Israel's complete history without bias.Comrade Ogilvy wrote:
"cunt-tastic regime"....wow you must be all of 19 years old.....drive on!CameronPoe wrote:
Israel is pretty insane too ye know, they just have the common sense to keep their mouths shut about the less savoury aspects of their pretty cunt-tastic regime.Comrade Ogilvy wrote:
Iran is an insane nation.....
I don't think anybody should have nukes. At all. Including the USA. Iran feels the need to develop nukes because...
The USA has a history of ignoring international law when it feels it doesn't need to follow the rules it helped establish...
The UK, France, Russia and the USA feel the need to wipe their asses with the Non-proliferation treaty... And the USA with it's "Coalition of the Willing" just invaded and disposed one of it's previous client governments and one of it's other neighbours, with very little credible justification for either invasion...
Maybe Iran feels the need for a nuclear deterrent...
Whoa... Can't believe these forums are still kicking.
Not to mention Israel didn't even sign the NPT.Flecco wrote:
No, he just looks at Israel's complete history without bias.Comrade Ogilvy wrote:
"cunt-tastic regime"....wow you must be all of 19 years old.....drive on!CameronPoe wrote:
Israel is pretty insane too ye know, they just have the common sense to keep their mouths shut about the less savoury aspects of their pretty cunt-tastic regime.
I don't think anybody should have nukes. At all. Including the USA. Iran feels the need to develop nukes because...
The USA has a history of ignoring international law when it feels it doesn't need to follow the rules it helped establish...
The UK, France, Russia and the USA feel the need to wipe their asses with the Non-proliferation treaty... And the USA with it's "Coalition of the Willing" just invaded and disposed one of it's previous client governments and one of it's other neighbours, with very little credible justification for either invasion...
Maybe Iran feels the need for a nuclear deterrent...
28...gee..who would have guessed?....have you outgrown your first Birkenstock sandals yet?...I think not!CameronPoe wrote:
I'm actually 28. But thanks for the misguided assumption. I've been to Israel and I've read and know the background of the situation inside out and there are no other words that describe Israel so succinctly: cunts.Comrade Ogilvy wrote:
"cunt-tastic regime"....wow you must be all of 19 years old.....drive on!CameronPoe wrote:
Israel is pretty insane too ye know, they just have the common sense to keep their mouths shut about the less savoury aspects of their pretty cunt-tastic regime.
Last edited by Comrade Ogilvy (2007-07-22 19:02:16)
I can't take any criticisms of Iran seriously as long as Saudi Arabia is given a free pass on their terror connections and Pakistan is largely ignored despite being a far greater threat.
If you can't debate without attacking other people for simply having a different opinion, then D&ST is not the place to be.Comrade Ogilvy wrote:
28...gee..who would have guessed?....have you outgrown your first Birkenstock sandals yet?...I think not!CameronPoe wrote:
I'm actually 28. But thanks for the misguided assumption. I've been to Israel and I've read and know the background of the situation inside out and there are no other words that describe Israel so succinctly: cunts.Comrade Ogilvy wrote:
"cunt-tastic regime"....wow you must be all of 19 years old.....drive on!
I'm 28 as well. Got a problem with it? Too fucking bad....Comrade Ogilvy wrote:
28...gee..who would have guessed?....have you outgrown your first Birkenstock sandals yet?...I think not!CameronPoe wrote:
I'm actually 28. But thanks for the misguided assumption. I've been to Israel and I've read and know the background of the situation inside out and there are no other words that describe Israel so succinctly: cunts.Comrade Ogilvy wrote:
"cunt-tastic regime"....wow you must be all of 19 years old.....drive on!
have they ever had a UN inspectionsergeriver wrote:
Not to mention Israel didn't even sign the NPT.
Last edited by elstonieo (2007-07-22 20:58:18)
No, they haven't the obligation, they can do what they want.elstonieo wrote:
have they ever had a UN inspectionsergeriver wrote:
Not to mention Israel didn't even sign the NPT.
Not to mention the Atomic Energy Administration is really worried that they are using unsafe practices in their handling of the warheads...sergeriver wrote:
No, they haven't the obligation, they can do what they want.elstonieo wrote:
have they ever had a UN inspectionsergeriver wrote:
Not to mention Israel didn't even sign the NPT.
Whoa... Can't believe these forums are still kicking.
But hey, they aren't Iran,so there's no need to control them.Flecco wrote:
Not to mention the Atomic Energy Administration is really worried that they are using unsafe practices in their handling of the warheads...sergeriver wrote:
No, they haven't the obligation, they can do what they want.elstonieo wrote:
have they ever had a UN inspection
I'm 19 [sarcasm] and say cunt-tastic all the time!!! [/sarcasm]Comrade Ogilvy wrote:
"cunt-tastic regime"....wow you must be all of 19 years old.....drive on!CameronPoe wrote:
Israel is pretty insane too ye know, they just have the common sense to keep their mouths shut about the less savoury aspects of their pretty cunt-tastic regime.Comrade Ogilvy wrote:
Iran is an insane nation.....
You're welcome in advance!
Here's a fact we've all heard before but many choose to selectively ignore when comparing a country like Iran to Israel:
In Iran there lives 25'000 Jews. Tehran has 11 functioning synagogues, many of them with Hebrew schools. It has two kosher restaurants, and a Jewish hospital, an old-age home and a cemetery. There is a Jewish representative in the Iranian parliament. There is a Jewish library with 20,000 titles, its reading room decorated with a photograph of the Ayatollah Khomeini.
source: http://www.jewsnotzionists.org/iranianjews.html
In Israel up until 1966 Arabs were subjected to a form of martial law. This required that they apply for permission from the military governor to travel more than a given distance from their registered residence. It also included the use of curfew, administrative detentions, expulsions, and other activities. Martial law was lifted from the Arab population living in predominantly-Jewish cities some years later, but remained in place in Arab areas until 1966. According to the 2004 U.S. State Department Country Reports on Human Rights Practices for Israel and the Occupied Territories, the Israeli government "did little to reduce institutional, legal, and societal discrimination against the country's Arab citizens. Inequality in funding between Jewish and Arab towns, and widespread discrimination present significant hurdles for Arab citizens of Israel. According to the New York Times (8 February 2007), "a recent report on poverty published last year by Israel’s National Insurance Institute indicated that 53 percent of the impoverished families in Israel are Arabs." Of the 40 towns in Israel with the highest unemployment rates, 36 are Arab towns. Difficulties in procuring employment have been attributed to a comparatively low level of education vis-a-vis their Jewish counterparts, insufficient employment opportunities in the vicinity of their towns, discrimination by Jewish employers, and competition with foreign workers in fields, such as construction, agriculture, etc.
source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arab_citizens_of_Israel
In Iran there lives 25'000 Jews. Tehran has 11 functioning synagogues, many of them with Hebrew schools. It has two kosher restaurants, and a Jewish hospital, an old-age home and a cemetery. There is a Jewish representative in the Iranian parliament. There is a Jewish library with 20,000 titles, its reading room decorated with a photograph of the Ayatollah Khomeini.
source: http://www.jewsnotzionists.org/iranianjews.html
In Israel up until 1966 Arabs were subjected to a form of martial law. This required that they apply for permission from the military governor to travel more than a given distance from their registered residence. It also included the use of curfew, administrative detentions, expulsions, and other activities. Martial law was lifted from the Arab population living in predominantly-Jewish cities some years later, but remained in place in Arab areas until 1966. According to the 2004 U.S. State Department Country Reports on Human Rights Practices for Israel and the Occupied Territories, the Israeli government "did little to reduce institutional, legal, and societal discrimination against the country's Arab citizens. Inequality in funding between Jewish and Arab towns, and widespread discrimination present significant hurdles for Arab citizens of Israel. According to the New York Times (8 February 2007), "a recent report on poverty published last year by Israel’s National Insurance Institute indicated that 53 percent of the impoverished families in Israel are Arabs." Of the 40 towns in Israel with the highest unemployment rates, 36 are Arab towns. Difficulties in procuring employment have been attributed to a comparatively low level of education vis-a-vis their Jewish counterparts, insufficient employment opportunities in the vicinity of their towns, discrimination by Jewish employers, and competition with foreign workers in fields, such as construction, agriculture, etc.
source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arab_citizens_of_Israel
I'd still trust Israel more than Iran in the nuclear department.
Would you trust a country that conducts apartheid policies? I would not trust any of them, but I certainly don't trust Israel.M.O.A.B wrote:
I'd still trust Israel more than Iran in the nuclear department.
I dunno what those are, but I believe Israel would be far less likely to use nukes than Iran, or in the case that Iran may provide terror cells etc with nukes. Israel has had nuclear weapons for some time and has never once used them, and I believe that if they did use them for a rogue mission or something, the US would probably sever relations with them as a result and they would be left alone to fend entirely by themselves.sergeriver wrote:
apartheid policies?M.O.A.B wrote:
I'd still trust Israel more than Iran in the nuclear department.
Exactly, I'd like to see both countries have their nuclear ambitions curtailed. You can't tell one country they can't do something while letting their enemy (as they perceive it) do whatever the hell it pleases.sergeriver wrote:
Would you trust a country that conducts apartheid policies? I would not trust any of them, but I certainly don't trust Israel.M.O.A.B wrote:
I'd still trust Israel more than Iran in the nuclear department.
Actually, I don't mind one country helping out another, especially if you are an ally. The problem I have with this is that peace is being sacrificed because Iran doesn't want Israel to have peace. Think about this for a moment. We may be in a situation where some sort of peace, even though I still believe I won't see it in my lifetime, is being brokered because Fatah has separated itself from the radically kidnapped cause of the Hamas led group. Israel has released prisoners, America and started money back into Palestine to help bolster Fatah because it is fighting for the legitimate cause of statehood rather than the goal of wiping Israel out.sergeriver wrote:
Oh, no!!! A country providing weapons to an ally? What's going on in the World?
So we have some things in motion,,,,but here comes the "monkey with the wrench"....Iran. So Iran makes an arms deal to make Syria move away from peace and recognition. Tell me how in the world this helps the Palestinian cause or its people when Iran makes a move like that? All that does is put Israel on the defensive. Recently, I see a lot of OP's get derailed or turned into something else when I am trying to look at the big picture and focusing on what I would like to discuss. What I would like to know STILL...is how in the world the actions of Iran helps anyone??
They talk about the Palestinian fight, the talk about support but then they do this? All they do is keep the perpetual circle of hate, distrust and anger going in one big circle. A move like this only makes Israel more defensive and less likely to give up anything they have and should give up. The bottom line is once again, Peace take a back seat.....A huge step backwards, in my opinion. Peace is used as a pawn to keep another country from doing the right thing. When will people wake up and do the right thing for once. Maybe if they did...others would follow....WOW, what a concept! But no....of course not...lets just keep doing the same stupid bullshit that keeps the Middle East a never ending circle of idiocy.
I don't think Iran's goal is the freedom of Palestinians. They have an agenda, and the Palestinians are not one of the priorities for them. I just commented that it was kinda naive to be surprised by this behavior. Didn't the US sell weapons to Saddam and 20 years later invaded Iraq coz they had those weapons? What are we talking about? When was peace a goal for Iran, Egypt, Jordan, Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, Iraq, Israel or the US? This is about influence in the region, not about achieving peace for Palestinians.DeathBecomesYu wrote:
Actually, I don't mind one country helping out another, especially if you are an ally. The problem I have with this is that peace is being sacrificed because Iran doesn't want Israel to have peace. Think about this for a moment. We may be in a situation where some sort of peace, even though I still believe I won't see it in my lifetime, is being brokered because Fatah has separated itself from the radically kidnapped cause of the Hamas led group. Israel has released prisoners, America and started money back into Palestine to help bolster Fatah because it is fighting for the legitimate cause of statehood rather than the goal of wiping Israel out.sergeriver wrote:
Oh, no!!! A country providing weapons to an ally? What's going on in the World?
So we have some things in motion,,,,but here comes the "monkey with the wrench"....Iran. So Iran makes an arms deal to make Syria move away from peace and recognition. Tell me how in the world this helps the Palestinian cause or its people when Iran makes a move like that? All that does is put Israel on the defensive. Recently, I see a lot of OP's get derailed or turned into something else when I am trying to look at the big picture and focusing on what I would like to discuss. What I would like to know STILL...is how in the world the actions of Iran helps anyone??
They talk about the Palestinian fight, the talk about support but then they do this? All they do is keep the perpetual circle of hate, distrust and anger going in one big circle. A move like this only makes Israel more defensive and less likely to give up anything they have and should give up. The bottom line is once again, Peace take a back seat.....A huge step backwards, in my opinion. Peace is used as a pawn to keep another country from doing the right thing. When will people wake up and do the right thing for once. Maybe if they did...others would follow....WOW, what a concept! But no....of course not...lets just keep doing the same stupid bullshit that keeps the Middle East a never ending circle of idiocy.
Last edited by sergeriver (2007-07-23 13:56:21)
Man oh man. Where to start. Iran is pursuing a nuclear weapon. Everyone agrees it would be a bad thing. So us "westerners" condemn Iran for this but all you Euros step in to defend them by saying..."israel has them, the US has them, blah blah blah." When the US conducts foriegn policy that is un-popular to you Euros no one defends us by stating that we are reacting to a threat we see(ie, 9/11, 7/7, and all the unsuccesful attempts that have followed). So Iran is doing what it has to do, just like we are doing what we have to do. Euros now see us as the instigators and Iran as the poor little guy getting beat up by the west. All this proves is that Iran is winning the popularity contest but by no means does this make them the innocent angels.
I see what you say...but don't tell me that Iran and its leaders do not use the Israeli/ Palestinian issue as a political tool...THEY DO, all the time!!!! There are many statements that come out of Iran pertaining the that issue and use it as an excuse to spew their rhetoric against Israel. You know better Surge. Sccondly, yes the United States sold some weapons during the war against Iran...but don't forget that MANY countries did. People always focus on the what the U.S. did. But if you look at the stockpiles that are being found in Iraq, a lot of those weapons and technology came from France and Sweden as well. Almost everything that was armored was from the Soviet Union, so it is disingenuous to bring up that point. Of course we helped arm Iraq during that time, so did many.sergeriver wrote:
I don't think Iran's goal is the freedom of Palestinians. They have an agenda, and the Palestinians are not one of the priorities for them. I just commented that it was kinda naive to be surprised by this behavior. Didn't the US sell weapons to Saddam and 20 years later invaded Iraq coz they had those weapons? What are we talking about? When was peace a goal for Iran, Egypt, Jordan, Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, Iraq, Israel or the US? This is about influence in the region, not about achieving peace for Palestinians.DeathBecomesYu wrote:
Actually, I don't mind one country helping out another, especially if you are an ally. The problem I have with this is that peace is being sacrificed because Iran doesn't want Israel to have peace. Think about this for a moment. We may be in a situation where some sort of peace, even though I still believe I won't see it in my lifetime, is being brokered because Fatah has separated itself from the radically kidnapped cause of the Hamas led group. Israel has released prisoners, America and started money back into Palestine to help bolster Fatah because it is fighting for the legitimate cause of statehood rather than the goal of wiping Israel out.sergeriver wrote:
Oh, no!!! A country providing weapons to an ally? What's going on in the World?
So we have some things in motion,,,,but here comes the "monkey with the wrench"....Iran. So Iran makes an arms deal to make Syria move away from peace and recognition. Tell me how in the world this helps the Palestinian cause or its people when Iran makes a move like that? All that does is put Israel on the defensive. Recently, I see a lot of OP's get derailed or turned into something else when I am trying to look at the big picture and focusing on what I would like to discuss. What I would like to know STILL...is how in the world the actions of Iran helps anyone??
They talk about the Palestinian fight, the talk about support but then they do this? All they do is keep the perpetual circle of hate, distrust and anger going in one big circle. A move like this only makes Israel more defensive and less likely to give up anything they have and should give up. The bottom line is once again, Peace take a back seat.....A huge step backwards, in my opinion. Peace is used as a pawn to keep another country from doing the right thing. When will people wake up and do the right thing for once. Maybe if they did...others would follow....WOW, what a concept! But no....of course not...lets just keep doing the same stupid bullshit that keeps the Middle East a never ending circle of idiocy.
I find it funny that the behavior of Iran is almost excused or condoned. But if Israel did this...lets say, that Israel sold chemical weapons and nuclear technology to Jordan in exchange for Jordan to not be peaceful to Palestinians....HOLY SHIT...YOU would be all over it. For some reason, Iran does this and you are like...Oh well...it happens....WHAT?????. Hmmmm...well, is that the attitude we should take..."oh well?" Okay..the war in Iraq...oh well, it happens, shouldn't be shocked, no big deal....move on, nothing more to see. Of course, that is ridiculous!!
My point, that you didn't recognize, is that I DO NOT put the blame on one specific country. It is a cycle of stupidity and I blame all of them for the continuous cycle of idiocy that is the politics of the Middle East and what Iran has done does NOTHING good for the region for one bit. Especially in the position that Iran is against the International community. Another slap in the face to the international community because Iran knows that the UN will take another 10-15 years to do anything about anything. By that time, it will be even more "too late"!!
What is it exactly that you want us to condemn DBY? Try to ask us to condemn something that won't involve us embracing double standards. I think what some Americans find baffling is that we see Israel as the bad guys, by and large, which creates a formidable transatlantic understanding barrier.DeathBecomesYu wrote:
I see what you say...but don't tell me that Iran and its leaders do not use the Israeli/ Palestinian issue as a political tool...THEY DO, all the time!!!! There are many statements that come out of Iran pertaining the that issue and use it as an excuse to spew their rhetoric against Israel. You know better Surge. Sccondly, yes the United States sold some weapons during the war against Iran...but don't forget that MANY countries did. People always focus on the what the U.S. did. But if you look at the stockpiles that are being found in Iraq, a lot of those weapons and technology came from France and Sweden as well. Almost everything that was armored was from the Soviet Union, so it is disingenuous to bring up that point. Of course we helped arm Iraq during that time, so did many.sergeriver wrote:
I don't think Iran's goal is the freedom of Palestinians. They have an agenda, and the Palestinians are not one of the priorities for them. I just commented that it was kinda naive to be surprised by this behavior. Didn't the US sell weapons to Saddam and 20 years later invaded Iraq coz they had those weapons? What are we talking about? When was peace a goal for Iran, Egypt, Jordan, Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, Iraq, Israel or the US? This is about influence in the region, not about achieving peace for Palestinians.DeathBecomesYu wrote:
Actually, I don't mind one country helping out another, especially if you are an ally. The problem I have with this is that peace is being sacrificed because Iran doesn't want Israel to have peace. Think about this for a moment. We may be in a situation where some sort of peace, even though I still believe I won't see it in my lifetime, is being brokered because Fatah has separated itself from the radically kidnapped cause of the Hamas led group. Israel has released prisoners, America and started money back into Palestine to help bolster Fatah because it is fighting for the legitimate cause of statehood rather than the goal of wiping Israel out.
So we have some things in motion,,,,but here comes the "monkey with the wrench"....Iran. So Iran makes an arms deal to make Syria move away from peace and recognition. Tell me how in the world this helps the Palestinian cause or its people when Iran makes a move like that? All that does is put Israel on the defensive. Recently, I see a lot of OP's get derailed or turned into something else when I am trying to look at the big picture and focusing on what I would like to discuss. What I would like to know STILL...is how in the world the actions of Iran helps anyone??
They talk about the Palestinian fight, the talk about support but then they do this? All they do is keep the perpetual circle of hate, distrust and anger going in one big circle. A move like this only makes Israel more defensive and less likely to give up anything they have and should give up. The bottom line is once again, Peace take a back seat.....A huge step backwards, in my opinion. Peace is used as a pawn to keep another country from doing the right thing. When will people wake up and do the right thing for once. Maybe if they did...others would follow....WOW, what a concept! But no....of course not...lets just keep doing the same stupid bullshit that keeps the Middle East a never ending circle of idiocy.
I find it funny that the behavior of Iran is almost excused or condoned. But if Israel did this...lets say, that Israel sold chemical weapons and nuclear technology to Jordan in exchange for Jordan to not be peaceful to Palestinians....HOLY SHIT...YOU would be all over it. For some reason, Iran does this and you are like...Oh well...it happens....WHAT?????. Hmmmm...well, is that the attitude we should take..."oh well?" Okay..the war in Iraq...oh well, it happens, shouldn't be shocked, no big deal....move on, nothing more to see. Of course, that is ridiculous!!
My point, that you didn't recognize, is that I DO NOT put the blame on one specific country. It is a cycle of stupidity and I blame all of them for the continuous cycle of idiocy that is the politics of the Middle East and what Iran has done does NOTHING good for the region for one bit. Especially in the position that Iran is against the International community. Another slap in the face to the international community because Iran knows that the UN will take another 10-15 years to do anything about anything. By that time, it will be even more "too late"!!
Through the particular prism I view things, we all have our 'prisms', I see two allies trading weaponry and striking deals within their own neighbourhood and in each others interests. Israel is an expansionist state. It poses a threat to Syria (which it is still technically at war with), Lebanon (which it has invaded several times in the past), Palestine (whose internationally recognised territory they continue to colonise) and Islam (whose third holiest shrine might just see the wrecking ball if Orthodox Jews get their way). You cannot ask anyone to condemn this deal because Iran themselves are threatened by both Israel and the US ever since the Islamic revolution - a popular movement that the US has sought to destroy since its inception because it smashed US influence over Iranian resources (the US armed Iraq and pushed them to war with Iran to this end in 1980, one year after the Islamic revolution). It has been the US and Israel who have been the instigators in this region of the world since WWII. The indigenous folk are now standing up for themselves and I say good luck to them.
As to your question 'Iran is an angel?' - No, Iran is not an angel.
Last edited by CameronPoe (2007-07-24 01:47:24)
I don't see France or Sweden in Iraq.DeathBecomesYu wrote:
the United States sold some weapons during the war against Iran...but don't forget that MANY countries did. People always focus on the what the U.S. did. But if you look at the stockpiles that are being found in Iraq, a lot of those weapons and technology came from France and Sweden as well. Almost everything that was armored was from the Soviet Union, so it is disingenuous to bring up that point. Of course we helped arm Iraq during that time, so did many.
I don't like Iran, but I don't make a big deal of this coz it's hypocrite, everybody helps its allies. I condemn Israel for violations to human rights, not for defending their country.DeathBecomesYu wrote:
I find it funny that the behavior of Iran is almost excused or condoned. But if Israel did this...lets say, that Israel sold chemical weapons and nuclear technology to Jordan in exchange for Jordan to not be peaceful to Palestinians....HOLY SHIT...YOU would be all over it. For some reason, Iran does this and you are like...Oh well...it happens....WHAT?????. Hmmmm...well, is that the attitude we should take..."oh well?" Okay..the war in Iraq...oh well, it happens, shouldn't be shocked, no big deal....move on, nothing more to see. Of course, that is ridiculous!!
Agreed. But you shouldn't be surprised of this kind of behavior.DeathBecomesYu wrote:
My point, that you didn't recognize, is that I DO NOT put the blame on one specific country. It is a cycle of stupidity and I blame all of them for the continuous cycle of idiocy that is the politics of the Middle East and what Iran has done does NOTHING good for the region for one bit. Especially in the position that Iran is against the International community. Another slap in the face to the international community because Iran knows that the UN will take another 10-15 years to do anything about anything. By that time, it will be even more "too late"!!
I don't think many people here will claim Iran are 'angels', it's just many here view the 'under the counter shenanigans' of the US and Israel as just as bad. Are us 'Euros' not allowed to disapprove of all of these nations? The actions of one side encourages and motivates the actions of the others.rawls2 wrote:
Man oh man. Where to start. Iran is pursuing a nuclear weapon. Everyone agrees it would be a bad thing. So us "westerners" condemn Iran for this but all you Euros step in to defend them by saying..."israel has them, the US has them, blah blah blah." When the US conducts foriegn policy that is un-popular to you Euros no one defends us by stating that we are reacting to a threat we see(ie, 9/11, 7/7, and all the unsuccesful attempts that have followed). So Iran is doing what it has to do, just like we are doing what we have to do. Euros now see us as the instigators and Iran as the poor little guy getting beat up by the west. All this proves is that Iran is winning the popularity contest but by no means does this make them the innocent angels.
PS. If you're gonna start calling us 'Euros' then I'm gonna start calling ye 'Dollars'!