BF2S Forums Riot

Do you know, what you've said here effectively restates the message of Stupid White Men?

ATG wrote:

Hmm...short, insightful and accurate.
+1!

Oh, so that's who it was

More evidence to support ATG's crazy rants.

http://www.nascocorridor.com/

http://www.house.gov/paul/tst/tst2006/tst103006.htm

And the only candidate to shit on it.

http://worldnetdaily.com/news/article.a … E_ID=52684

Last edited by Mason4Assassin444 (2007-07-18 16:53:32)

Flecco wrote:

Hmm... I remember Marco used to cop shit for saying stuff like this.

It's interesting to see how ATG's views have moved away from the conservative and towards the centre-right-libertarian.

^{Edit for spelling. Goddamn, you can think properly at 10am.}

Last edited by Spark (2007-07-18 17:09:55)

The current administration is anything but conservative, and that means they are liberal.

ATG wrote:

Actually not.
Conservatisim for me has always been self reliance and limited government.
I pretty much hate the government and I always have.
I think Kmarion may be closer to the truth and that is that I have anarchist leanings.

I was rather militant in my views in my early twenties, wanting blood after Waco and ruby ridge.

In fact, many of my social views are quite liberal. The difference is I'm not ashamed of our nation projecting power; I want the United States to dominate the world. Whats the alternative? Praying to Mecca five times a day and my wife in a Burrka? F%$%^^$G right.

I see the world as a predatory place and the evidence is all around you.

I think corruption should be a capital offense, like in China so I also have authortarian leanings.

Bottom line; I'm independent. Always have been.


I rooted for Bush because I believe 9-11 was serious shit and we need to rally.


Now. given the way things have transpired I'm going to believe there are other forces at work.

I believe America as we know it will exist for about another five -ten years.
I'm not saying we are all gonna die, just that things are going to change and not for the better.

Hence why labels suck balls.

*shrugs* Moving to a different country is a simple solution to the problems addressed here.  Canada is just one of many possibilities.  The U.K., Ireland, and France look promising as well.  I think I'll pass on France though.  I really have no desire to learn French.

France and USA has a very recent history of coming into conflict on quite a few issues.  France, like America and Britain, are very "interventionalist" in their policies.  This means we step on each other's toes a lot in the world when we're dinking around for our own interests in 3rd world countries.  We've basically been screwing each other since Vietnam.  Its easy enough to look up if you're really interested.  We also really screwed France on the whole OPEC/dollar collapse crisis in '71 and they've been nitpicking back at us ever since.  Basically, we defaulted when they tried to exchange dollars they were holding for gold from Ft. Knox.

ATG wrote:

Actually not.
Conservatisim for me has always been self reliance and limited government.
I pretty much hate the government and I always have.
I think Kmarion may be closer to the truth and that is that I have anarchist leanings.

I was rather militant in my views in my early twenties, wanting blood after Waco and ruby ridge.

In fact, many of my social views are quite liberal. The difference is I'm not ashamed of our nation projecting power; I want the United States to dominate the world. Whats the alternative? Praying to Mecca five times a day and my wife in a Burrka? F%$%^^$G right.

This cognitive disconnect is always why I like ATG.

He hates the government.
He thinks (rightly) conservatism is smaller government and self-reliance.

And then the other voices in his head say:

Militarism is ok, we should export our ("hated") government through military force to the rest of the world.  The obvious implication being massive military spending and pissing off those Muslims (and many others) through these military adventures.
He bashes Gore and hates Clinton for balancing our federal budget and having a sane spending policy.
He defends Bush and his rubberstampers against the "haters" despite having the worst spending record in history.  And says he voted for Bush because he attacked Iraq, which had nothing to do with 9/11 and was in fact a stable moderate Muslim country even with an asshole for president.

However, as long as you stick to jingoisms and don't think too deeply, these arguements make sense on their own, but not coming from the same person.  Why would you want to enforce a government that you hate so much on other people unless you're a sadist?  Its like forcing your little brother to eat earthworms as a kid.  Why would you believe that some poor Muslim is going to swim across the ocean to put a burka on your wife's head?  I've lived in Turkey and Israel, among the bedouins, the worst I got was a cat call  from a passing car for kissing my girlfriend while walking down the road near Be'er Shiva...with a quick "Nik Nefsik!" from me.  These guys are not coming to get you or your family, at least not the guys giving me a ride in their donkey cart, stopping to pick me up while walking even though they had 15 minutes to make it back to the West Bank before curfew.  I really just don't get it.  Did you have a bad experience with burkas as a child?  Did a muslim dress in a green robe and burn a crescent on your lawn in the middle of the night as a kid?  Oh, sure, there are muslims that would love to rip out my throat as soon as look at me I'm sure, but I don't need to leave the US for that kind of treatment when I could just hang out at a NASCAR track and spout my "liberal views", walk through some shell of an inner city neighborhood after the industry packed up and left the US, or be the wrong color in a given rural Texas town after sun down.

Its not personal against ATG, he just provided a stunning example of the cognitive dissonance and unfounded sensationalism I see every time I get pointed at O'Reilly or a right-wing hate site, or a few other posters here.  I do like that he's finally coming around to Alex Jones stuff, but I prefer to come at the conspirational history view with an eye toward realpolitik and not "paranoia du jour", focus on the facts that can be checked and not the horrible leaps in logic I see on a lot of conspiracy websites.

America, as the great experiment, is currently on hold until we clean up our act...starting with the top on down.  Then, and only then, can we think about exporting our "values".  America's military is NOT anyone's personal vehicle for restarting their holy wars, and I really resent that implication having served for 9 years.  I never signed up with the secret thought that I would have a free license open season to kill me some rag-headed sand niggers or help out Uncle Dick to get his buddies some more oil.  And I'll be doubly damned if I let pass some chickenhawks imply that for me or imply that my brothers still in the service (literally, youngest just finished West Point year 1) have that as part of their job description.  Wanting to change the policy that our troops must fight under does not hate them...unless you like talking points.  "Freedom" does not include any god-given right to drive an SUV and suck up resources at 4x to 10x the rate of the rest of the world.  Besides, the Crusades are soooo...last millenium.  Fear, and its bastard stepchildren xenophobia and racism, need to go out of style and not fast enough for my taste.

In the meantime, you want conservative values?  Come to Eastern Europe!  The governments here are generally corrupt and stupid, public services barely function (except for medical...free treatment anywhere no questions asked, woohoo!), I pay $40/month flat Income tax in Ukraine, my studio pays 25% corporate profits tax.  There's no justice except what you make, no opportunities except what you make, few laws you need to pay attention to, cash transactions on anything, market share in every sector is wide open, etc.  Its libertarian paradise!

That's why Ron Paul is the solution.

konfusion wrote:

Turquoise wrote:

*shrugs* Moving to a different country is a simple solution to the problems addressed here.  Canada is just one of many possibilities.  The U.K., Ireland, and France look promising as well.  I think I'll pass on France though.  I really have no desire to learn French.

One thing I never got was why France is so unpopular in the USA. They helped you get your independence. Is it just Americans jumping on the British hate-bandwagon, or is there something else?

-konfusion

Propoganda from WWII. The french were belittled by the british and the yanks while we were fighting the nazis in France. Its all about propoganda.

konfusion wrote:

Turquoise wrote:

*shrugs* Moving to a different country is a simple solution to the problems addressed here.  Canada is just one of many possibilities.  The U.K., Ireland, and France look promising as well.  I think I'll pass on France though.  I really have no desire to learn French.

One thing I never got was why France is so unpopular in the USA. They helped you get your independence. Is it just Americans jumping on the British hate-bandwagon, or is there something else?

-konfusion

I don't have anything personal against France, but I really don't feel like learning French.

As for why most Americans bash the French -- we're just parroting the British.  Most Americans don't even know much about France.

Turquoise wrote:

I don't have anything personal against France, but I really don't feel like learning French.

As for why most Americans bash the French -- we're just parroting the British.  Most Americans don't even know much about France.

I'll take that challenge .

jonsimon wrote:

Europe really isn't an option for Americans. You have to have a business and a lot of capital to get citizenship in most european countries.

Whereas a couple gallons of water and some tennis shoes will do the trick here.