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Cybargs
Moderated
+2,275|6049
George Bush doesn't care about black people.
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sergeriver
Cowboy from Hell
+1,928|6090|Argentina

Pug wrote:

sergeriver wrote:

You can put them to work in NO rebuilding.  I don't get the poverty thing.  What is your point with the before Katrina poverty situation?
That is true.  Many people are now working construction.  But unfortunately it's not going to help everyone.  I wish it would.  I think someone on this forum works construction (from Florida I think) and was down there helping out.

About the poverty thing - there has been a circle of poverty in NOLA since its existance.  So unfortunately they haven't been able to break away from poverty, and have in fact perpetuated it, because government aid (aka welfare) hasn't been enough.  Unemployment was the primary problem within the city (now its just worse).

So while Katrina is a disaster, it actually gave many people to opportunity to break out of New Orleans and relocate elsewhere...instead of prepetuating the poverty problem.  (Perpetuating isn't the right word here, but my coffee hasn't kicked in yet).
I knwo NO was always one of the poorest places in the US, but that doesn't necesaraly mean you can't imprive the local conditions.  And when a disaster like Katrina takes place, things don't get better.  The government has the obligation to help rebuild NO, creating the conditions for people to come back.  The people of NO should be the ones working in the rebuilding of NO.  You say there are not enough jobs.  Then create them.  How many people does it take to rebuild NO?  There you go.  While the city is rebuilt, the tourism will come back, and there'll be more jobs again.
Mitch
Ive been here for 15.5 years. That’s half my life.
+876|5858|South Florida
Ha... Let me guess... Mr. Bush is a racist?

Mhmm...

You know what?

New Orleans is not being helped because its a fucking shit hole.

When volunteers risked there lives going down there in fucking boats to save people from rooftops, the gangbanging fucking blacks were stealing, looting, robbing, and killing each other.

The fucking gangs/blacks (i will estimate 99% of those gangsters were black! BAD BLACKS! BAD!) took over that state and made it 10 times as dangerous to go save innocent people.

And because of there actions that is why New Olreans isn't in better shape.

Maybe if they werent such scumbag respectless peices of shit, and could put down there 'gat' and fucking help each other instead of caring 'who yo gunna bust a cap in' and 'yo this city belongs to the mother fuckin krypts' they would be a lot further along.

What if we said that by having that hurricain it helped kill some of the fucking scumbag gangsters who are ruining this great nation??

Last edited by Mitch (2007-07-18 07:28:55)

15 more years! 15 more years!
Pug
UR father's brother's nephew's former roommate
+652|5875|Texas - Bigger than France

sergeriver wrote:

I knwo NO was always one of the poorest places in the US, but that doesn't necesaraly mean you can't imprive the local conditions.  And when a disaster like Katrina takes place, things don't get better.  The government has the obligation to help rebuild NO, creating the conditions for people to come back.  The people of NO should be the ones working in the rebuilding of NO.  You say there are not enough jobs.  Then create them.  How many people does it take to rebuild NO?  There you go.  While the city is rebuilt, the tourism will come back, and there'll be more jobs again.
Well, we're saying the same thing.  It's just the timing we aren't agreeing on.  I think it will take longer and it can be sped up a bit, but not as much as you believe.

The biggest problem I see right now is corruption of where these public funds are going...that's delaying things as well because the government doesn't have all the controls in place necessary to prevent corruption.  That, and NOLA politics is one of the most corrupt I have ever heard about.

Anyway.  I think I have to work now.  Bush is a fag but shares the blame for this one.
sergeriver
Cowboy from Hell
+1,928|6090|Argentina

Pug wrote:

sergeriver wrote:

I knwo NO was always one of the poorest places in the US, but that doesn't necesaraly mean you can't imprive the local conditions.  And when a disaster like Katrina takes place, things don't get better.  The government has the obligation to help rebuild NO, creating the conditions for people to come back.  The people of NO should be the ones working in the rebuilding of NO.  You say there are not enough jobs.  Then create them.  How many people does it take to rebuild NO?  There you go.  While the city is rebuilt, the tourism will come back, and there'll be more jobs again.
Well, we're saying the same thing.  It's just the timing we aren't agreeing on.  I think it will take longer and it can be sped up a bit, but not as much as you believe.

The biggest problem I see right now is corruption of where these public funds are going...that's delaying things as well because the government doesn't have all the controls in place necessary to prevent corruption.  That, and NOLA politics is one of the most corrupt I have ever heard about.

Anyway.  I think I have to work now.  Bush is a fag but shares the blame for this one.
Maybe he shares the blame, but he's still guilty of not helping.
Pug
UR father's brother's nephew's former roommate
+652|5875|Texas - Bigger than France

sergeriver wrote:

Maybe he shares the blame, but he's still guilty of not helping.
Not true on the not helping part.  There's a difference between "hasn't done enough" and "none".

Most of the blame in my opinion is local and state issues.  This is based on a Katrina refugee I hired - he's got some screwed up stories.
CaptainSpaulding71
Member
+119|5690|CA, USA
who's to say that parts of New Orleans SHOULD be rebuilt.  many parts are UNDER SEA LEVEL which would put them in the same situation for the next big storm.  They bury the dead in mosoleums because if they put them in the ground, the caskets would pop out due to the water table level.  I'm saying that perhaps it makes sense to relocate the city to higher ground.  so in this sense why pour money into something that is going to be a problem down the road?

regarding the perception that republicans don't care about minorities (which i don't think is true):  why don't minorities care more about minorities?  why is it that when a minority is successful, he gets ostracized by his own community for 'acting white'?  that kind of negative reinforcement is actually what is 'keeping the black man down' and not the establishment.  To some degreee the minority communities perpetuate these minority stereotypes themselves.  i consider them Americans, but they consider themselves black, hispanic, etc.  WTF?  join the rest of the country and start making money and improving your life.  come on.

It's interesting also that the city of Houston who out of the kindness of their hearts welcomed in the refugees from the Katrina crisis was later rethinking this plan when it's crime rate went up significantly due to 'relocated' gangs and new turf wars.  They were later saying 'go back to NO'.

I've seen the videos of the Katrina 'victims' with their free money cards buying Louis Vuitton hats and living the thug life.  This kind of mentality is perpetuated by the 'just give them money' bleeding heart crowd.  This is one reason why i'm an advocate of the 'pull up by bootstraps' mentality.  i have a certain amount of pride in myself that if something happened and i was out of a job, within a week, i'd find something to sustain myself.  this might be through corporate america, service industry, armed services, starting my own business, etc.  there are sooooooo many ways to make money in this country it's crazy!  some people would rather play the 'woe is me' and not do it themselves.  i'm the kind of guy to not want to pay them to not help themselves either.  now...it would be a different story if there were a concerted effort on the 'underpriviledged' to be actively trying to improve their lives but i just don't see it. 

and...all of this was happening before Katrina.  Katrina just amplified the situation.
Pug
UR father's brother's nephew's former roommate
+652|5875|Texas - Bigger than France
^^^ what Spaulding said QFE
Kmar
Truth is my Bitch
+5,695|5934|132 and Bush

I have a friend that worked for FEMA. He said that having the money to help people get started wasn't the problem. Actually I think his words were "Can't get rid of it fast enough". Getting New'O residents to fill out the appropriate paper work was the challenge. Fraud is an issue when dealing with 200 billion in aid. I spent time after Katrina in New'O helping out. I had a buddy who was sent there to help from our local electric company. The people in New'O were politically exploited. FEMA is not a first response organization, in fact they tell local governments to base their preparations around a 72 to 96 hours response time. Yet we blame Bush first over the people who could have saved lives. The media constantly reminds us of the causalities in Iraq but they seem content in giving a pass to the local government in New Orleans, the guys who could have saved many by just having a better plan. It was Blanco who dithered over accepting help from FEMA, and over deploying the National Guard, and even over allowing the Red Cross to deliver supplies to several sites around New Orleans. You won't hear much about that.
Xbone Stormsurgezz
Bull3t
stephen brule
+83|5635
I would not be surprised if he cared more about the Iraqis more than people from New Orleans.
Pug
UR father's brother's nephew's former roommate
+652|5875|Texas - Bigger than France

Kmarion wrote:

I have a friend that worked for FEMA. He said that having the money to help people get started wasn't the problem. Actually I think his words were "Can't get rid of it fast enough". Getting New'O residents to fill out the appropriate paper work was the challenge. Fraud is an issue when dealing with 200 billion in aid. I spent time after Katrina in New'O helping out. I had a buddy who was sent there to help from our local electric company. The people in New'O were politically exploited. FEMA is not a first response organization, in fact they tell local governments to base their preparations around a 72 to 96 hours response time. Yet we blame Bush first over the people who could have saved lives. The media constantly reminds us of the causalities in Iraq but they seem content in giving a pass to the local government in New Orleans, the guys who could have saved many by just having a better plan. It was Blanco who dithered over accepting help from FEMA, and over deploying the National Guard, and even over allowing the Red Cross to deliver supplies to several sites around New Orleans. You won't hear much about that.
My co-worker just dropped in, I asked him about this topic.

He told me a story about this lawyer he knows.  This lady came in with plans to sue the government.  She said she has about $10K left from her settlement check and it's not enough.  The lawyer asked her what she did with the rest settlement check the government gave her for losing her house.  She bought a Lexus.
Mason4Assassin444
retired
+552|5995|USA

[NeMe$i$.Dr4g0ncl4w] wrote:

As Tupac said, "They got money for wars but cant feed the poor"
"Instead of a war on poverty, there's a war on drugs so police can bother me." -2Pac
sergeriver
Cowboy from Hell
+1,928|6090|Argentina

Pug wrote:

Kmarion wrote:

I have a friend that worked for FEMA. He said that having the money to help people get started wasn't the problem. Actually I think his words were "Can't get rid of it fast enough". Getting New'O residents to fill out the appropriate paper work was the challenge. Fraud is an issue when dealing with 200 billion in aid. I spent time after Katrina in New'O helping out. I had a buddy who was sent there to help from our local electric company. The people in New'O were politically exploited. FEMA is not a first response organization, in fact they tell local governments to base their preparations around a 72 to 96 hours response time. Yet we blame Bush first over the people who could have saved lives. The media constantly reminds us of the causalities in Iraq but they seem content in giving a pass to the local government in New Orleans, the guys who could have saved many by just having a better plan. It was Blanco who dithered over accepting help from FEMA, and over deploying the National Guard, and even over allowing the Red Cross to deliver supplies to several sites around New Orleans. You won't hear much about that.
My co-worker just dropped in, I asked him about this topic.

He told me a story about this lawyer he knows.  This lady came in with plans to sue the government.  She said she has about $10K left from her settlement check and it's not enough.  The lawyer asked her what she did with the rest settlement check the government gave her for losing her house.  She bought a Lexus.
A Lexus?  At least she could have bought a BMW.
Locoloki
I got Mug 222 at Gritty's!!!!
+216|5973|Your moms bedroom
it would be funny to see a homeless person living out of a Lexus
Mitch
Ive been here for 15.5 years. That’s half my life.
+876|5858|South Florida

Mason4Assassin444 wrote:

[NeMe$i$.Dr4g0ncl4w] wrote:

As Tupac said, "They got money for wars but cant feed the poor"
"Instead of a war on poverty, there's a war on drugs so police can bother me." -2Pac
"It ain't about black or white cause we human" -pac
15 more years! 15 more years!
namsdrawkcaB
Biggest n00blet around!
+35|5632

Mitch wrote:

Mason4Assassin444 wrote:

[NeMe$i$.Dr4g0ncl4w] wrote:

As Tupac said, "They got money for wars but cant feed the poor"
"Instead of a war on poverty, there's a war on drugs so police can bother me." -2Pac
"It ain't about black or white cause we human" -pac
"Mitch should stfu" -namsdrawkcaB
Mitch
Ive been here for 15.5 years. That’s half my life.
+876|5858|South Florida

namsdrawkcaB wrote:

Mitch wrote:

Mason4Assassin444 wrote:


"Instead of a war on poverty, there's a war on drugs so police can bother me." -2Pac
"It ain't about black or white cause we human" -pac
"Mitch should stfu" -namsdrawkcaB
Ughh....

Fuck you
15 more years! 15 more years!
CommieChipmunk
Member
+488|5903|Portland, OR, USA
isolationist state ftw.
Villain{NY}
Banned
+44|5677|New York
Honestly what do people expect when they live below sea level?  It's no ones fault really, it was an act of God.  Even if the National Guard and Coast Guard had been in the city rescuing people seconds after the storm past if wouldn't have made any difference, the damage was done.  It's not the federal governments problem that the people affected were, for the most part, uninsured.  Now these same people that instituted mob rule after the storm (i.e. looting, robbery, etc.) want a free handout indefinitely?  I think not.  It's not an issue of race, it's an issue of impoverished people (both black and white) that are playing with a time bomb by living in an area prone to disasters of this sort.
sergeriver
Cowboy from Hell
+1,928|6090|Argentina

Villain{NY} wrote:

Honestly what do people expect when they live below sea level?  It's no ones fault really, it was an act of God.  Even if the National Guard and Coast Guard had been in the city rescuing people seconds after the storm past if wouldn't have made any difference, the damage was done.  It's not the federal governments problem that the people affected were, for the most part, uninsured.  Now these same people that instituted mob rule after the storm (i.e. looting, robbery, etc.) want a free handout indefinitely?  I think not.  It's not an issue of race, it's an issue of impoverished people (both black and white) that are playing with a time bomb by living in an area prone to disasters of this sort.
Netherlands anyone?
golgoj4
Member
+51|6107|North Hollywood

Pug wrote:

sergeriver wrote:

Pug wrote:


The city's unemployment was high before the storm.  Now there are less jobs.  Is there actually an opportunity to move back?
Without the government help, no.  But I suppose they don't deserve to be helped coz they are poor people aka lazy bastards.  The conservative solution to this kind of problem, just give the middle finger and you'll be fine.
WHAT?  Go rub yourself with peanut butter.

Your solution is that they should never work again?  Are there jobs in New Orleans?  NO.  Then what are the options?  The aid was not designed for them to sit on their ass when they can find work elsewhere!

My belief is they were given enough aid to make it through the tough time - enough for them to get back on their feet.  It may not be NOLA but certainly enough for them to make a living elsewhere.  Not only that, but here in Texas the governor pushed for businesses to hire Katrina victims.  The most conservative state in the US.
So if your hometown was leveled by a natural disaster, should we say fuck rebuilding your town? Should we abandon you completely, say tough shit and move on to the next town, mayb you'll have better luck?

Excuses about how there are no jobs are lame when there has been nothing but a pathetic attempt to rebuild the city. Maybe im just crazy, but I would rather NOT abandon any American city or town. But I guess thats fading ideal.

But meanwhile, lets keep wasting all this fucking cash in iraq. WTF!>?!?!?!?!!?!?!?!?

It seems the conservatives are really the cut and run types as they dont have the guts to stick out the process of rebuilding an American city.
golgoj4
Member
+51|6107|North Hollywood

Kmarion wrote:

I have a friend that worked for FEMA. He said that having the money to help people get started wasn't the problem. Actually I think his words were "Can't get rid of it fast enough". Getting New'O residents to fill out the appropriate paper work was the challenge. Fraud is an issue when dealing with 200 billion in aid. I spent time after Katrina in New'O helping out. I had a buddy who was sent there to help from our local electric company. The people in New'O were politically exploited. FEMA is not a first response organization, in fact they tell local governments to base their preparations around a 72 to 96 hours response time. Yet we blame Bush first over the people who could have saved lives. The media constantly reminds us of the causalities in Iraq but they seem content in giving a pass to the local government in New Orleans, the guys who could have saved many by just having a better plan. It was Blanco who dithered over accepting help from FEMA, and over deploying the National Guard, and even over allowing the Red Cross to deliver supplies to several sites around New Orleans. You won't hear much about that.
I totally agree with you on the fact that local government fell down on its ass during the emergency. Whats amazing is how it seems like all levels of government failed.
KnowMeByTrailOfDead
Jackass of all Trades
+62|6014|Dayton, Ohio
I am sorry, the people that have left NO and not returned are the ones that nolonger deserve our support, if they are still living on hand out and not making an effort to rebuild a foundation to thier lives then there is very little I can do to help them.  GWB has no responsibility to these people, if they are too lazy to work they are probably too lazy to vote and deffinately are not paying Taxes.  It is the responsibility of the individual to take the help that has been offered and turn it into a positive rather than to ask "why didn't I get more". 

Iraq is a completely different situation, we are rebuilding the entire infrastructure which is all governement owned.  The infrastructure in NO is probably mostly privatized so it is the responsibilites of the companies in the area to rebuild as they see fit.  They have a stable local government to make decisions and distribute assitance and request help.  They have the tools to get things rebilt, Iraq is not to that point yet, which is why everyone wants us to pull out.
weerdfoo1
Banned
+26|5498|California

[NeMe$i$.Dr4g0ncl4w] wrote:

As Tupac said, "They got money for wars but cant feed the poor"
Right!
KnowMeByTrailOfDead
Jackass of all Trades
+62|6014|Dayton, Ohio

golgoj4 wrote:

Pug wrote:

sergeriver wrote:


Without the government help, no.  But I suppose they don't deserve to be helped coz they are poor people aka lazy bastards.  The conservative solution to this kind of problem, just give the middle finger and you'll be fine.
WHAT?  Go rub yourself with peanut butter.

Your solution is that they should never work again?  Are there jobs in New Orleans?  NO.  Then what are the options?  The aid was not designed for them to sit on their ass when they can find work elsewhere!

My belief is they were given enough aid to make it through the tough time - enough for them to get back on their feet.  It may not be NOLA but certainly enough for them to make a living elsewhere.  Not only that, but here in Texas the governor pushed for businesses to hire Katrina victims.  The most conservative state in the US.
So if your hometown was leveled by a natural disaster, should we say fuck rebuilding your town? Should we abandon you completely, say tough shit and move on to the next town, mayb you'll have better luck?

Excuses about how there are no jobs are lame when there has been nothing but a pathetic attempt to rebuild the city. Maybe im just crazy, but I would rather NOT abandon any American city or town. But I guess thats fading ideal.

But meanwhile, lets keep wasting all this fucking cash in iraq. WTF!>?!?!?!?!!?!?!?!?

It seems the conservatives are really the cut and run types as they dont have the guts to stick out the process of rebuilding an American city.
So you want the government to pay to rebuild anything that is destroyed by good old mother nature?  That is why we have insurance and other means to protect our PRIVATE PROPERTY.  It is our responsibility to protect what we have worked hard to build.  It is not the governments responsibility to make any of that happen.  If lightning strikes my house tomorrow, I am not going to stand in front of the white house waiting for a contractor and banker to show up and make arrangement for rebuild my life for me.  I am going to move into a temporary residence, if need be - Find a job, contact the insurance company that I have been paying out of my pocket and I am going to start rebuilding my life, not just for myself but for my FAMILY.  People are realy trying to strech the whole idea of what is the Governments responsibility.

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