BF2S Forums Females on the Frontlines

if they would like to fight, just let them. however, put them through the same training as the men and same requirements. like, if a man has to do 60 push ups, make the women do 60, not 50. make things fair for everyone.

fitz8402 wrote:

I also happen to believe men have no place in synchronized swimming.  Does that mean I hate all men?  Just a little food for thought.

Of course they do.

Kmarion wrote:

fitz8402 wrote:

I also happen to believe men have no place in synchronized swimming.  Does that mean I hate all men?  Just a little food for thought.

Of course they do. http://i14.tinypic.com/67dlehc.gif

Ok, I can admit when I am wrong.  That is one sexy bitch and it would be a crime to keep him out of the pool.

DeadboyUSMC wrote:

fitz8402 wrote:

DeadboyUSMC wrote:

Not in the actual MOS, but my unit switched over to foot/ HMMWV patrols once we got into Baghdad. I'm not talking out of my ass here.

If you truly had no problem with women fitz, then you wouldn't have a "problem" with them serving in a combat unit. See the irony?

The men who wrote the Constitution and the Bill of Rights made it to be adaptive. I suggest looking through the Amendments.

What's your stance on female police officers? In a sense, a patrol officer is on a "frontline." I'm sure you could worm your way out of a ticket by telling a female police officer that you don't a "problem" with her being a cop, just as long as she sits behind a desk. See what happens.

Please quote to me the part of the constitution or the bill of rights that says they were created in order to be "adaptive".  As for female cops I think that there are many of them who have no business being cops.  But to be fair when I see a 300 pound male cop who could not run 100 yards to save his life I would say he is unfit for duty as well.   The big difference between cops and grunts is a cop will never be asked to throw 70 - 120 pounds on their backs and hump it 30 miles and then be expected to engage the enemy in combat.

There is no direct quote. Take an Administration of Justice class, then you might learn a thing or two about civil rights/ equal opportunity.

You are correct sir!  There is no quote thus proving you were talking out your ass when you said the documents were created to be adaptive.  It sounds like you need a little schooling my friend.  As for me needing an Admin of Justice class I would be more than happy to compare college transcripts with you.  I guarantee you that after we were done you would realize that when I speak of government and law I am speaking from a position based in fact and not opinion.

icecreamgod wrote:

excuse, but since when didn't spraying female marines in the eyes with pepper spray become part of basic training?!?!

On another note... I don't think women should fight on the front lines, because their physical requirementss are easier (if you make their standards easier, then any man that fufills a harder requirement would logically mean that they are more capable), the government would have to provide everything now for both genders, and I know this might sound stupid and somewhat sexist, but I see women (more oftenthan not) the better half of mankind (given mankind is seen as man and woman). I would not let anything that is responsible for the continuation of human life be slaughtered by corrupt nations and poor idealism. However, if they wish to seek combat, then they are just stupid. Infact any person looking for combat is dumb, but if a man/woman wishes to protect his or her country by serving, then so be it - just don't be pissed off when you realize what you are fighting for isn't always what you thought it was about. I am also not going to be the person to stop you from doing what you want.

men are just as responsible. cant make babies without sperm.

fitz8402 wrote:

Ender2309 wrote:

fitz8402 wrote:

Grunts have to pass the same pft as admin.  3 pullups, 60 crunches and a 28 min run.  Just because you are capable of minimun standards it doesnt mean you can cut the mustard.  If you are or were in I am sure you can think of several examples both male and female that didnt cut it.

wow. anybody that can't complete that is a fucking pussy. hell, i had my third day of cross country practice today and i did more than that. 

a woman in a construction job could easily pull that off. so could most athletes.

stop being an ignorant backwatery hick.

You just made my point my freind!  Just because a person can comply with the minimum standard it does not mean they have a prayer of performing at the level that will be expected of them in the infantry.

uh...no, thats definitely what minimum standards are there for. they show that you can do at least what you need to.

nonexistentusmc wrote:

Ender2309 wrote:

fitz8402 wrote:

Grunts have to pass the same pft as admin.  3 pullups, 60 crunches and a 28 min run.  Just because you are capable of minimun standards it doesnt mean you can cut the mustard.  If you are or were in I am sure you can think of several examples both male and female that didnt cut it.

wow. anybody that can't complete that is a fucking pussy. hell, i had my third day of cross country practice today and i did more than that. 

a woman in a construction job could easily pull that off. so could most athletes.

stop being an ignorant backwatery hick.

Well, that's the minimum reqs for a PFT. Combat Obstacle Courses are not run in PT gear. So, he's just talking about a regular Physical Fitness Test, which has little to do with humping out on 80-100+ lbs of gear for an undetermined distance, well until you reach your destination. Like you said, anyone can pass the test, but can they hump out and not fall out. Falling out during a hump is a HUGE problem, not only does it take away 1 Marine/soldier, but now the corpsman/medic has to attend to him/her, and now we might have to call for medevac depending on how serious the reason is as to why he/she fell out(dehydration/fatigue/etc). There's a lot of factors involving being in the infantry. I know MCT isn't SOI but in MCT(Marine Combat Training) we had to climb wooden walls with our flak jacket(no plates) with our weapon and deuce gear, all the while being "tactical". Shit, I know that was a little challenging for me. I passed the PFT but I couldn't hack the freakin wall! OMFG! See where I'm getting at? Now add to the fact that bullets will now be flying by towards you. Better drop the pack and get over the wall quickyrickytick!

now if only we could get fitz to be this coherent...

GunSlinger OIF II wrote:

how many of you have actually served in an infantry unit as an infantryman?

Do I win a prize? 

fitz8402 wrote:

Ender2309 wrote:

nonexistentusmc wrote:

Well, that's the minimum reqs for a PFT. Combat Obstacle Courses are not run in PT gear. So, he's just talking about a regular Physical Fitness Test, which has little to do with humping out on 80-100+ lbs of gear for an undetermined distance, well until you reach your destination. Like you said, anyone can pass the test, but can they hump out and not fall out. Falling out during a hump is a HUGE problem, not only does it take away 1 Marine/soldier, but now the corpsman/medic has to attend to him/her, and now we might have to call for medevac depending on how serious the reason is as to why he/she fell out(dehydration/fatigue/etc). There's a lot of factors involving being in the infantry. I know MCT isn't SOI but in MCT(Marine Combat Training) we had to climb wooden walls with our flak jacket(no plates) with our weapon and deuce gear, all the while being "tactical". Shit, I know that was a little challenging for me. I passed the PFT but I couldn't hack the freakin wall! OMFG! See where I'm getting at? Now add to the fact that bullets will now be flying by towards you. Better drop the pack and get over the wall quickyrickytick!

now if only we could get fitz to be this coherent...

He was agreeing with me you dunce!

yes i quite realize that. my point was that instead of explaining it you're pissed and throwing things left and right. you're arguing like a twelve year old instead of debating like a grown man. consider that.

GunSlinger OIF II wrote:

usmarine2005 wrote:

GunSlinger OIF II wrote:

how many of you have actually served in an infantry unit as an infantryman?

Do I win a prize? 

I think I saw it in that cat hole over there.

Good.  I will send a private to retrieve it.

Ok, so we have a couple of people that want women in front line units and a couple of people who don't, mainly fitz arguing it though. 

School of Infantry for me was a cake walk but also a bitch and a half.  I was a squad leader so during any field work I got to carry the PRC-119, and no, not a nice new one but an older, bitch of one.  Try being tatical with a dayback, NVG's, the PRC-119, 11 Marines and an NCO who is trying to best his buddy who we are to ambush or be ambushed by, or if lucky sneak by and attack the objective.  Oh by the way this is at 0300 after getting 1 hour of sporatic sleep since 2200 due to two assaults, checking on my squad in their fighting positions during every 45-60 minutes, making sure one of them is asleep.  I have Marines stumbling around, kicking stuff by accident, thankfully not bitching or moaning or I'd get ripped a new one after it was all done.  So after a 30 minute movement I set up a defensive position and the NCO takes me off to survey the "enemy" position, thats a bitch because he gets lost and we take a long way around.  End up getting a half decent look, come back get the Marines, have to wake a son of a bitch up, (get my ass chewed for it later) and start moving again get the Marines to through the assualt and back, move back, launch an ambush on the firebreak, move back to the defensive position in time to fill'em in and start moving out back down the hill to the barracks. 

Ok, that was an easy TRAINING exercise.  Now I know a few females that can do that fine, and I would have no problem with them in combat, its the others like the Marine who fell asleep and fell behind on the run and I had to wait for his slow, fat ass to catch up that would piss me off.  It's not the ones that could do it that are the reason I say no.  It's the ones that can't but want to do it because they are told they can't and risk the lives of everyone in the area because of it.  Right now I haven't been deployed overseas, in fact I'm going to Juniors PLC in a little over a week, but my unit has some very capable Marines, including NCOs and senior Lcpl.'s with experience "in country."  On the other hand we have a guy who is at 35% body fat and can't do shit to save his own neck. 

Ok, I know this has turned into a rant but what I am saying is that no matter which sex you are talking about there are going to be those that can cut it and those that cannot cut it.  With men, the "success rate" is much more likely to be higher then with females.  If the military made infantry standards, say a 1st Class PFT with a minimum in each of the catagories that is the same for both sexes and stipulations for both then only the peope cut out for infantry would make it into the infantry.  But then again how many people are there crazy enough to volunteer to go grunt? 

Oh, wtf, its not like I can sway any minds with a logical argument so I'm not even go to edit my rants.

Ridir wrote:

Ok, so we have a couple of people that want women in front line units and a couple of people who don't, mainly fitz arguing it though. 

School of Infantry for me was a cake walk but also a bitch and a half.  I was a squad leader so during any field work I got to carry the PRC-119, and no, not a nice new one but an older, bitch of one.  Try being tatical with a dayback, NVG's, the PRC-119, 11 Marines and an NCO who is trying to best his buddy who we are to ambush or be ambushed by, or if lucky sneak by and attack the objective.  Oh by the way this is at 0300 after getting 1 hour of sporatic sleep since 2200 due to two assaults, checking on my squad in their fighting positions during every 45-60 minutes, making sure one of them is asleep.  I have Marines stumbling around, kicking stuff by accident, thankfully not bitching or moaning or I'd get ripped a new one after it was all done.  So after a 30 minute movement I set up a defensive position and the NCO takes me off to survey the "enemy" position, thats a bitch because he gets lost and we take a long way around.  End up getting a half decent look, come back get the Marines, have to wake a son of a bitch up, (get my ass chewed for it later) and start moving again get the Marines to through the assualt and back, move back, launch an ambush on the firebreak, move back to the defensive position in time to fill'em in and start moving out back down the hill to the barracks. 

Ok, that was an easy TRAINING exercise.  Now I know a few females that can do that fine, and I would have no problem with them in combat, its the others like the Marine who fell asleep and fell behind on the run and I had to wait for his slow, fat ass to catch up that would piss me off.  It's not the ones that could do it that are the reason I say no.  It's the ones that can't but want to do it because they are told they can't and risk the lives of everyone in the area because of it.  Right now I haven't been deployed overseas, in fact I'm going to Juniors PLC in a little over a week, but my unit has some very capable Marines, including NCOs and senior Lcpl.'s with experience "in country."  On the other hand we have a guy who is at 35% body fat and can't do shit to save his own neck. 

Ok, I know this has turned into a rant but what I am saying is that no matter which sex you are talking about there are going to be those that can cut it and those that cannot cut it.  With men, the "success rate" is much more likely to be higher then with females.  If the military made infantry standards, say a 1st Class PFT with a minimum in each of the catagories that is the same for both sexes and stipulations for both then only the peope cut out for infantry would make it into the infantry.  But then again how many people are there crazy enough to volunteer to go grunt? 

Oh, wtf, its not like I can sway any minds with a logical argument so I'm not even go to edit my rants.

Enjoyed the rant! +1   I agree with everything you said.  Unfortunatley we both know men and women will never be held to the same standard in the Marine Corps.  I also whole heartedly agree that men that cant hack it should not be there either. 
Good luck at OCS man.