BF2S Forums Anyone up for a Military History Thread?

the film was on recently. done with the red army filling in as the redcoats and french, its absolutely stunning when in place of the cgi horses in LOTR rings you actually see RL thousands of horsemen charging.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0066549/

think it was on the bbc though

Nice Pics!

SoC./Omega wrote:

I'm going to ask you all a question (which I already know the answer too, obviously).

What nation during WW2 strapped bombs to german shepards, or dogs in general, to blow up Nazi tanks?

+1 to who ever can figure this out

The Russians, the red army did this.
The Russians would put meat in front of the estimated tank path, and then send starved dogs loose underneath the slowly moving tank and then detonate the bombs lol.
The problem was that the dogs would wolf down the food, and then run back at the Russian army with bombs strapped on them, which could be either timed or remote control!

The_Mac wrote:

SoC./Omega wrote:

I'm going to ask you all a question (which I already know the answer too, obviously).

What nation during WW2 strapped bombs to german shepards, or dogs in general, to blow up Nazi tanks?

+1 to who ever can figure this out

The Russians, the red army did this.
The Russians would put meat in front of the estimated tank path, and then send starved dogs loose underneath the slowly moving tank and then detonate the bombs lol.
The problem was that the dogs would wolf down the food, and then run back at the Russian army with bombs strapped on them, which could be either timed or remote control!

damn, you're good.

The_Mac wrote:

Vernedead wrote:

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0066549/

think it was on the bbc though

Ahh yes, I saw that movie, it was made by a Russian I think. Good stuff all around, but I think, quite honestly, even if Wellington had 'lost' the battle, it would only have been a tactical victory for Napoleon. He already milked France with all his propaganda, so I don't think he could have gained too much. Wellington, on the other hand would not have let his force be entirely destroyed, and he would have made another retreat, regrouped with his Prussian allies, fresh from a day of marching around, picking their noses, and then licked Napoleon's force.

Haha! Prussians fresh and only licked the French forces.
I think you need to read some more info regarding Waterloo. The Anglo - Dutch/Belgian forces lost about 15.000 man and the Prussians lost 7.000. How would you explain 7.000 casualties if they were only picking their noses and licking the French forces.
You also have to remind that the Prussians kept a whole French corps from participating in the battle.

The_Mac wrote:

Vernedead wrote:

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0066549/

think it was on the bbc though

Ahh yes, I saw that movie, it was made by a Russian I think. Good stuff all around, but I think, quite honestly, even if Wellington had 'lost' the battle, it would only have been a tactical victory for Napoleon. He already milked France with all his propaganda, so I don't think he could have gained too much. Wellington, on the other hand would not have let his force be entirely destroyed, and he would have made another retreat, regrouped with his Prussian allies, fresh from a day of marching around, picking their noses, and then licked Napoleon's force.

the problem was wellington would retreat to antwerp, and the prusssians to berlin, he'd already stuck his neck out for the prussians twice so he probably wasn't going to do it again, with the prussians and british split up and forced out of the alliance, napoleon hoped that the other continental powers would make peace.

Gillenator wrote:

I think you need to read some more info regarding Waterloo. The Anglo - Dutch/Belgian forces lost about 15.000 man and the Prussians lost 7.000. How would you explain 7.000 casualties if they were only picking their noses and licking the French forces.
You also have to remind that the Prussians kept a whole French corps from participating in the battle.

The Prussians lost a tactical battle the day before, but they hadn't been as mauled as they thought, and this boosted morale. The day of Waterloo, the troops were marching to link up with Wellington's forces. In the event that Wellington was forced back, he would be so with massive casualties to French. The French would not have any reserves but the French Guard, while Wellington would have the whole Prussian army.
But it's a hypothetical situation, so who knows? Napoleon in another universe might have taken advantage of Wellington's lack of reserves, and if his lower officers like his younger brother hadn't been such dopes, they could have won.

Longbow wrote:

I've always thought germans used dogs to blow up russian tanks ... during 1941-1942 they had no ground gun capable to penetrate T-34 or KV-1 front armour .

I'm pretty sure 88mm Flak Guns could punch a whole in Russian Armor. Not sure though. The real problem was Stalin's purge in 1936, destroying the bulk of Russian military intellect. That and his industry was still getting up to speed, so they had T-34s, but not enough. And of course, mobility, strategic planning, and Russian winters all have to go into account.

Vernedead wrote:

the problem was wellington would retreat to antwerp, and the prusssians to berlin, he'd already stuck his neck out for the prussians twice so he probably wasn't going to do it again, with the prussians and british split up and forced out of the alliance, napoleon hoped that the other continental powers would make peace.

You certainly have a point, and I agree to some extent, but at this point, politicians much higher up than Wellington and Blucher saw Napoleon as a huge threat that needed to be liquidated--and now! So even if the generals wanted to make peace, politicians would force them to keep fighting.
Napoleon at this point would have to win a devastating victory against the continental powers to make them want peace, simply because everyone was against him, and afraid of him.
So what I'm thinking Wellington would do would retreat back to Wavre, where Blucher's force was coming from, and regroup, and then find a decent site, based on the topography of where to station troops. Napoleon wouldn't have time to consolidate his force, so his force would be bloodied, and so would Wellington's, but Wellington would have the luxury of semi 'fresh' troops who only had to walk around all day. I'm not downplaying the Prussian's mauling the previous day, nor their own general's skill, but they had spent a good deal of marching during the battle and only showed up around 3:30, at earliest.

Last edited by The_Mac (2007-06-27 08:16:21)

Vernedead wrote:

not the KV-1's armour, proof against 88 at close to point blank.

and you forget that wellington had dictated the previous peace, the next peace and became prime minister and the commander in chief, there aren't any politicians higher up than wellington. (ok thats an exaggeration) the brits only have one field army and it needs to stay in one piece to police the empire, napoleon winning at waterloo isn't the end of the world but the death of the british field army IS. if they lost again Wellington has no choice but to run for the coast, partly because a retreat to wavre isn't a retreat at all, it actually extends his supply lines.

Maybe, but Wavre is a good striking position, which allows him to plan his next move. I did not know Wellington had dictated the previous peace, but there's also the fact that the Allies won, so naturally they'd want to follow up and form a peace, while the French were still devastated from the massive blows.
If Wellington lost Waterloo, you're right, it'd be big, but in the long run, I think it'd only be a tactical battle for Napoleon. He couldn't make peace, because nobody trusted him. He was a ruthless, populace controlling dictator.

The Russians really stole the turbine idea, the MIG was a unique idea, skipping two different intakes on the wings, and instead putting both in the nose with an engine, leading to a more streamlined design.

Precisely what I was saying. He'd have to win some decisive battles, and at this point, I'd doubt he'd be able to do that.

Gillenator wrote:

A good site explaining that is weren't only the British that won Waterloo.

http://napoleonistyka.atspace.com/Waterloo_Cowards.html

Link doesn't work for me.
All this Waterloo talk made me go back into some of my books about early modern warfare.

There's what the British fought with, the Brown Bess, musket, smoothbore, and a ramrod operated and loading rifle. The British infantry fought with that, while here's what the first in the world division of rifle military men fought with:

The Baker Rifle! The British who wielded it for the wore Green Uniforms as the world's first sort of Camouflage. The  60th and 95th Rifles battalions wielded the weapon.

British Life Dargoons, these soldiers saved Wellington's rear force by charging on French lancers in the aftermath of Quarte Brass.

The Highlanders were a crucial addition to the Royal Army. They were noted for standing up to the French Cavalry charges with equal ferocity, having had a heiritage of holding off heavy cavalry from their native homeland for almost 1,000 years.  They were noted for using the bayonet as their principal charge, and their officers, noting this tendency, encouraged it, training Highlanders like the rest of the British army, but encouraging a disciplined use of the "Highland Charge".

Royal Dragoons, these peeps were Wellington's lightest cavalry, but armed with a sword and carbine, they were put to good use in all his battles. In Spain, Wellington used these for harassing French isolated communication posts and baggage.

The Kings Royal Dragoons, these were the elite of the Hanoverian King's cavalry, and they were adept at agrarian skills and swordsmanship

The French cavalry used antique armor, steel helms and breastplates, but they were a deadly weapon when used right. In massed cavalry charges, they could turn the tide of battle, and were the heaviest cavalry in that period of time in Europe.

The French Infantry was well trained and massed in large numbers. These men had high morale and confidence in their leader. Their uniforms were meant to be very ornate to inspire themselves and terrorize the enemy as they saw bayonets fixed on muskets advancing towards them.

One of the most inspiring pictures in British military history, the Scots Greys charged under command of Lord Uxbrdige. A colorful character, he had run off with the Duke Wellington's sister. When a friend unwisely pointed this out, Duke Wellington said, "I'll take care he don't run off with me, I don't care about anyone else."
It was rather ironic then, that Lord Uxbridge led this charge without full consent from Wellington.
Wellington grumbled, "The British cavalry never knows when to stop charging."