Friluftshund
I cnat slpel!!!
+54|6705|Norway
Here's a little piece of Friluftshund stupid-ness (which he didn't find by searching...)

Why are the MEC medics running around with mediv bags with the Red Cross stitched on it?

Isn't cross something of a no-no? Shouldn't it be the Red Crescent symbol or something?

Stupid piece of trivia isn't it - don't ask me how I came up with such a lame observation...
usmarine
Banned
+2,785|6754

Same way Marines are called medics and not corpsman, but oh well.
vonSteuben
Member
+3|6695|Essen - Germany
But I am sure they wear a Red Crescent on their back.

The Red Cross probably is just for the players, so they know "Oooooh! Band Aids!"

See ya,
vonSteuben
Friluftshund
I cnat slpel!!!
+54|6705|Norway

vonSteuben wrote:

But I am sure they wear a Red Crescent on their back.

The Red Cross probably is just for the players, so they know "Oooooh! Band Aids!"

See ya,
vonSteuben
Maybe they secretly knifed a US medic in the back and took his bags

Don't know about their uniforms - but I still would have thought a Red Crescent sign on their bags a nifty detail..
Gulf_War_Syndrome
OMG ERYX HAX!
+62|6671|Adelaide, Australia
Nice observation. Same goes for the 3D map icons.

It would be nice to know sometimes whether you are picking up a friendly or enemy med/ammo pack.
twiistaaa
Member
+87|6661|mexico
i thought MEC was made up?
Echo
WOoKie
+383|6712|The Netherlands
True, a lot of middle eastern nations use the red cresent and not the red cross symbol. I guess ea/dice used the red cross in the game cause its more reconizable for most ppl.
Tetrino
International OMGWTFBBQ
+200|6723|Uhh... erm...
He has a point. But what about the Chinese, though? Should it be a Chinese letter that says "Heal"?
Ty
Mass Media Casualty
+2,398|6767|Noizyland

I thought the Red Cross was an international symbol.

Also, if you're making the Christian/Islam referance, it's not a red crusafix, just a cross. Just like I think it was Kung Jew wondering about why there was the Navy Cross when there are other ethnicities in America, and the Marines.
[Blinking eyes thing]
Steam: http://steamcommunity.com/id/tzyon
evillbill
Member
+-1|6727|West Oz
The red cross is based on the reverse of the swiss flag, as the Red Cross was formed in Geneva in the 1860's.

The red cresent was formed in Turkey during the Russo-Turkish war, so it has been around for ~ 130 years, and was recognised by the Geneva convention in the 1920's.

Isreal felt a bit left out and formed the 'Red Star of David', but the Red Cross says their red cross symbol has nothing to do with cristianity. I don't what the Muslims had to say, but it probably wasn't nice. The Red star of david is not recognised by Geneva, and is regarded a bit imflamitory, so now they have the Red Crytal, which is reginised.

As for China, beats me.

I think it would be a great idea though, I still have the voices set to the native toungue rather than english, i think I could learn a few new symbols.

Last edited by evillbill (2006-01-28 02:20:20)

Friluftshund
I cnat slpel!!!
+54|6705|Norway

Tyferra wrote:

I thought the Red Cross was an international symbol.

Also, if you're making the Christian/Islam referance, it's not a red crusafix, just a cross. Just like I think it was Kung Jew wondering about why there was the Navy Cross when there are other ethnicities in America, and the Marines.
Yeah, I know - but if you watch the news from down there you'll see the red crescent on ambulances and stuff. And as for cross not being a crucifix - I guess a not so deep dive into symbols and symbolism use will extract almost the same meaning from a cross as from a crucifix, and that meaning is ascociated with christianity, just as the crescent is associated with Islam, or muslim countries.
Friluftshund
I cnat slpel!!!
+54|6705|Norway

evillbill wrote:

The red cross is based on the reverse of the swiss flag, as the Red Cross was formed in Geneva in the 1860's.

The red cresent was formed in Turkey during the Russo-Turkish war, so it has been around for ~ 130 years, and was recognised by the Geneva convention in the 1920's.

Isreal felt a bit left out and formed the 'Red Star of David', but the Red Cross says their red cross symbol has nothing to do with cristianity. I don't what the Muslims had to say, but it probably wasn't nice. The Red star of david is not recognised by Geneva, and is regarded a bit imflamitory, so now they have the Red Crytal, which is reginised.

As for China, beats me.

I think it would be a great idea though, I still have the voices set to the native toungue rather than english, i think I could learn a few new symbols.
Nice bit of info there - a source or two would be amazing ( I actually dig this stuff and want to learn more )

Nothing wrong with muslims, just the muslims doing wrong...
Echo
WOoKie
+383|6712|The Netherlands

Friluftshund wrote:

Nothing wrong with muslims, just the muslims doing wrong...
You are very right there mate, i m living next to muslims and i ve worked with muslims in previous jobs, also in the dutch army and these are all decent friendly ppl.

I guess its the same with dutch ppl, its probably less the 1% of them, that are up to no good.
mpec82
Member
+-1|6713
i have another question:

why usmc medic has only a little medic bag on the buttpack instead the others medics have a big backpack and the buttpack?
vonSteuben
Member
+3|6695|Essen - Germany
Ok, trying to translate some background info from german to english, please bear with me if it is a bit awkward

During the war between Austria, Sardinia and France in 1859 Switzerland stayed neutral.
At Solferinoe 160,000 Austrians met 150,000 French and Sardinians. Countless wounded were left on the battlefield that no one cared for. This sight bothered the genevan trader Henri Dunant (1928-1910), he described his impressions 1862 in a book that received much attention.

Together with the swiss General Dufour and three other personalities Henri Dunant founded a comittee from which the "Internationale Komitee vom Roten Kreuz" (International Committee of the Red Cross) emerged.
The Comittee persuaded the swiss government to call an international conference. 1864 12 parttaking states signed the convention (compact) for the mitigation of "inseperable evil (or is scourge a better word for it?) of war". When the first Nobel Peace Prize was awarded in 1901 it was awarded to Henri Dunant.

The Geneva Convention, which was joined by all european states by 1868 and by a big mayority of all states worldwide today, includes among other things:

* Ambulances, Hospitals, Nursing Staff, denizens that come to the aid of wounded are considered neutral and may not be attacked, they may not carry heavy weapons on the other hand.

* Wounded and/or sick soldiers shall be taken in and cared for notwithstanding (despite of?) their nationality

* As a sign for Hospitals, Ambulances and Staff serves a white flag or armlet with a red cross (in islamic states: Red Crescent, in Isreal Red Star).


Where does the "Red Cross" originate from?


Although the "alten Eidgenossen" (old Swiss Confederation *warning: very rough translation by me * ) didn't go to battle with a uniform Banner, but with the banners of their cantons the "Schweizerkreuz" (Swiss Cross) goes back to the late middle ages.

In the 13th Century the german Emporer (Kaiser) went to war with a banner with a cross as holy symbol.
He also carried a bloodred banner aside it as a sign of his power over life and death.
The right to fly such banners was granted to single cities or valleys as a special award.
So, for example the Earl of Savoyen, the city of Vienna and the scandinavian states and Great Britain carried a cross in their Coat of Arms and flags.
Often the right to carry a cross in the flag was connected to other privileges, for example "Reichsunmittelbarkeit" (directly mandated under the Emporer's jurisdiction, without Counts/Earls).

So the "Schwyzer" (the Swiss), who's name was expanded to the whole of the Swiss Confederation flew a red flag from the middle of the 13th Century (without the white cross at that time).

In 1289 they supported King Rudolf von Habsburg in a campaign against Burgung and where awarded the right to depict the crucification of Christ and the torture instrument in their red flag.
Originally the symbol, called "heilig Rych" (holy empire) as well on parchment and attached it to the banner. Only later the symbol of the cross was painted onto the cloth directly.

Ok, enough history for now.....
What does the above show us?

The Red Cross got it's symbol from inversing the swiss flag. The swiss flag carried the cross as a holy symbol, being awared the right to do so back in the late middle ages.
This means, it originates from the christian symbol of the cross (crucification of Christ) and so of course the muslim states and Israel do not accept the symbol although they do accept the genevan convention.
Since the origin of the Red Cross symbol is of religious christian nature they designed their own symbols, derivated from their own holy symbols.


ETA: The original Red Cross flag was the inverted swiss flag by an initiative from Henri Dunant. It was not a christian symbol at that time anymore but the national red cross organisations of non-christian countries still saw it as a reference to christianity and replaced them with their own holy symbols, while keeping the colour scheme of a red symbol on white background.
I can understand their reference to the symbol as being a christian symbol, when one looks at the history of the swiss flag


Whew, hope I didn't bore you too much with this post

See ya,
vonSteuben

Last edited by vonSteuben (2006-01-28 11:59:21)

Friluftshund
I cnat slpel!!!
+54|6705|Norway

vonSteuben wrote:

The right to fly such banners was granted to single cities or valleys as a special award.
So, for example the Earl of Savoyen, the city of Vienna and the scandinavian states and Great Britain carried a cross in their Coat of Arms and flags.
Great post, i understood most of it (barring the part in a language I don't speak

Now I'm not trying to be difficult or anything - but here it seems you draw lines between the German Kaiser, and other countries flags Is that a fact? Do you have sources claiming that - or am I misinterpreting you (which may be entirely possible!)

And by sources i mean other people saying the same thing as you do especially since our flag (Norwegian) was made without the idea of granting rights/concessions to anyone - but because christianity is the state-religion in Norway.

Thanks for an otherwise informative post - I didn't find it boring at all!
vonSteuben
Member
+3|6695|Essen - Germany
Hehe, I removed the german sentence, I had put them in so it was easier to translate and forgot to delete it before posting

The thing about the german kaiser was just as an example how the right to fly the cross was "awarded" to cities or provinces and such alike. It was not intended to give the impression the german emporer gave this privilege to the scandinavian countries and Great Britain After rereading my post I can understand that the wording might give this impression, but I am in no way sure how to word it differently

Most other countries used kind of the same way with awarding coats of arms and flags. It was the designated ruler, who awarded the right. Christianity was the foundation for states during the middle ages, so many countries have the cross in their flag, in many different forms

The cross in the scandinavian flags is the so called "scandinavian cross" and all flags of the scandinavian states go back to the danish flag the "Dannebrog". This is one of the oldest flags in the world.

Again, sorry for the poor wording about the german emporer and the impression that I meant he was "responsible" for all european country flags with a cross

See ya,
vonSteuben
bEAv3D
Member
+24|6686|Fayettenam, NC USA
That's a cross.....damn.... I thought it was a plus sign.  I guess that would answer my questions as to why my guy was carrying around a math book and how that made other people feel better after getting shot in the face.

Last edited by bEAv3D (2006-01-28 12:33:28)

Deety
Grammar Nazi level 4
+5|6656
People have joined together for ages to exploit economies of scale, where the whole is (usually) greater than the sum of its parts. Various symbols identify them, often decided on by what is popular at the time.

Perhaps if/when we discover an extra-terrestrial sentient race we can discard such distinctions and concentrate on the species as a whole.

Bit of an odd first post, but I'm probably too drunk...

Errr, edited for spelling caused by being too drunk

Last edited by Deety (2006-01-28 12:38:04)

Echo
WOoKie
+383|6712|The Netherlands

bEAv3D wrote:

That's a cross.....damn.... I thought it was a plus sign.  I guess that would answer my questions as to why my guy was carrying around a math book and how that made other people feel better after getting shot in the face.
Rofl, you re cracking me up...aaghh!

vonSteuben wrote:

Whew, hope I didn't bore you too much with this post
Not at all matey, interesting post!
Friluftshund
I cnat slpel!!!
+54|6705|Norway

Deety wrote:

People have joined together for ages to exploit economies of scale, where the whole is (usually) greater than the sum of its parts. Various symbols identify them, often decided on by what is popular at the time.

Perhaps if/when we discover an extra-terrestrial sentient race we can discard such distinctions and concentrate on the species as a whole.

Bit of an odd first post, but I'm probably too drunk...

Errr, edited for spelling caused by being too drunk
Er... what the flying fu*k?!

On a side note - a teacher I had a couple of weeks ago made a point of the gold plaque we sent out into space carrying info on us and where we are based and such. Apparently that might mean absolutely nothing to ET's finding it - and the concept of transferring our own understanding of symbols on an alien species was ridicouleous.. <--- now that's a word I don't spell every day

So perhaps we'll soon get invaded by aliens because the 'man' on the gold plaques had a raised hand = a gesture meant to convey: We are now at war, prepare to be annihilated...
blackcracka
Member
+18|6762
A red cresent on a medic bag would make people think mec sucks even more than it does.

I mean, the bag would probably only heal you half way or take longer to absorb, half of the bags probably wouldnt even work.
Friluftshund
I cnat slpel!!!
+54|6705|Norway

blackcracka wrote:

A red cresent on a medic bag would make people think mec sucks even more than it does.

I mean, the bag would probably only heal you half way or take longer to absorb, half of the bags probably wouldnt even work.
Gee... that was a funny, informative and hilarious post...
TC><Injecter
Member
+4|6820|Berlin, Germany
https://www.greenberg-art.com/.Toons/.Toons,%20Jewish/qqxsgRedCross.gif
Friluftshund
I cnat slpel!!!
+54|6705|Norway
I don't get it...

*sniff*

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