Kmar
Truth is my Bitch
+5,695|6788|132 and Bush

Turquoise wrote:

Why do you think we invaded Iraq?
Holy crap, about time .

I think the Republican party as a whole was trying to exploit American fears by manipulating us into believing that there was another serious threat in Iraq. It's no secret that Americans will rally together in the face of danger. The Bush administration was using that as a catapult to further their influence and power. Americans at the time felt Republicans were tougher on National defense. Iraq provided enough convincing to secure a second term for Bush. The GOP will have decades to deal with the repercussions.

Power trumps money every day of the week in politics.
Xbone Stormsurgezz
Silentkillr69
Member
+6|6365|Chicago
First of all we invaded Iraq because George Bush wanted to finish what his dad did about 10 years before. We did invade Afghanistan and it worked....kinda. We really need to take Iran out . I say we tell our soldiers to get a couple of hundred of miles to Iran and poof there we go. Iran in the leading supplier of Arms to terrorists...but you know where Iran originally gets the AK-47s?? FROM RUSSIA. Those commies are still hurting use Even after teh cold war.......damn Commies.
Turquoise
O Canada
+1,596|6592|North Carolina

Kmarion wrote:

Turquoise wrote:

Why do you think we invaded Iraq?
Holy crap, about time .

I think the Republican party as a whole was trying to exploit American fears by manipulating us into believing that there was another serious threat in Iraq. It's no secret that Americans will rally together in the face of danger. The Bush administration was using that as a catapult to further their influence and power. Americans at the time felt Republicans were tougher on National defense. Iraq provided enough convincing to secure a second term for Bush. The GOP will have decades to deal with the repercussions.

Power trumps money every day of the week in politics.
Well, I have to admit...  I didn't expect that response....

I just find that power and money are generally the same thing.  You really can't have one without the other.
Kmar
Truth is my Bitch
+5,695|6788|132 and Bush

What did you think I was a Republican tool?..lol. Power can get you much more than money can. That's what I meant by that.
Xbone Stormsurgezz
Turquoise
O Canada
+1,596|6592|North Carolina

Kmarion wrote:

What did you think I was a Republican tool?..lol. Power can get you much more than money can. That's what I meant by that.
I didn't say that, but I figured you still supported the invasion.

Anyway, I have only one question for you on your explanation: why did Bush's administration already plan to invade Iraq before 9/11 even occurred?  This came to light after several confirmations from officials leaving his administration like former Sec. of Treasury Paul O'Neill.

If his administration went into planning the invasion of Iraq before 9/11, then was it really just about ego and power?  I mean, wouldn't you figure a group like the Project for the New American Century is interested in economic gains aside from the political gains that a successful war would bring?  It seems like a lot of planning for just power reasons.

Last edited by Turquoise (2007-06-17 21:01:23)

Parker
isteal
+1,452|6581|The Gem Saloon

sgtpompous wrote:

Parker wrote:

sgtpompous wrote:

explain it; i could use a good laugh
a good laugh? like the one i had when you made this sad little comparison?

#1. the war was fought with true professional armies.
#2. the freedom of Europe was at stake.
#3. we were at war with COUNTRIES, not people.
#4. we had TRUE allies.
#5. even the people that beheaded others were army regulars, they wore a uniform and didnt hide behind civilians.

any more you need help with little guy, or can you figure the rest out yourself?


edit: oh ya, we have better weapons now, but you dont want to start on that......
i never said the two wars were identical, the cause for fighting them is similar.  there were psychotic leaders that needed to be dealt with, and we were attacked by radical people who would have kept attacking us had we not acted. how is that different?

edit: you need to learn your WWII history, the nazis were about 10% of the german people, the rest either didnt want to get involved, or were too afraid to fight back, just as saddam's people were
wikipedia says that the population in germany in 1939 was:69,314,000

wikipedia also says:"The German community was nationalized and labor and entertainment — from festivals, to vacation trips and traveling cinemas — were all made a part of the "Strength through Joy" (Kraft durch Freude) program. Also crucial to the building of loyalty and comradeship was the implementation of the National Labor Service and the Hitler Youth Organization, with the former being compulsory and the latter consisting of nearly six million boys and girls."


wow, according to you nazi germany was pretty much only supported by children!?!?


i think you might be the one that needs the history lesson.......
good effort though.

Last edited by Parker (2007-06-17 21:05:51)

Kmar
Truth is my Bitch
+5,695|6788|132 and Bush

Turquoise wrote:

Kmarion wrote:

What did you think I was a Republican tool?..lol. Power can get you much more than money can. That's what I meant by that.
I didn't say that, but I figured you still supported the invasion.

Anyway, I have only one question for you on your explanation: why did Bush's administration already plan to invade Iraq before 9/11 even occurred?  This came to light after several confirmations from officials leaving his administration like former Sec. of Treasury Paul O'Neill.

If his administration went into planning the invasion of Iraq before 9/11, then was it really just about ego and power?  I mean, wouldn't you figure a group like the Project for the New American Century is interested in economic gains aside from the political gains that a successful war would bring?  It seems like a lot of planning for just power reasons.
That is becuase when I challenged your explanation you got defensive and mistakenly took my criticism as an invasion endorsement.

I have heard similar statements. I would need to revisit the sources and read them in their entirety in order to offer my view.
Xbone Stormsurgezz
deadlikeme667
Member
+5|6357|MI
We reacted appropriately when we invaded Afghanistan.  That's all that was needed.
appropriately? i think sending a force smaller than the police force of manhattan into a pretty large, desolate country to hunt down the most wanted man in the world is a little inappropriate. we PROBABLY should have done a LITTLE more to find the man ACTUALLY responsible for 3,000 american deaths. . .  but bush says he is not a priority. maybe he should NOT have tried to finish his daddies war and not invade a country that had nothing to do with 9/11. thats my favorite part.
Turquoise
O Canada
+1,596|6592|North Carolina

Kmarion wrote:

Turquoise wrote:

Kmarion wrote:

What did you think I was a Republican tool?..lol. Power can get you much more than money can. That's what I meant by that.
I didn't say that, but I figured you still supported the invasion.

Anyway, I have only one question for you on your explanation: why did Bush's administration already plan to invade Iraq before 9/11 even occurred?  This came to light after several confirmations from officials leaving his administration like former Sec. of Treasury Paul O'Neill.

If his administration went into planning the invasion of Iraq before 9/11, then was it really just about ego and power?  I mean, wouldn't you figure a group like the Project for the New American Century is interested in economic gains aside from the political gains that a successful war would bring?  It seems like a lot of planning for just power reasons.
That is becuase when I challenged your explanation you got defensive and mistakenly took my criticism as an invasion endorsement.

I have heard similar statements. I would need to revisit the sources and read them in their entirety in order to offer my view.
Sorry for the misunderstanding...
Kmar
Truth is my Bitch
+5,695|6788|132 and Bush

Np, tone is often misinterpreted in forums.
Xbone Stormsurgezz
Turquoise
O Canada
+1,596|6592|North Carolina

deadlikeme667 wrote:

We reacted appropriately when we invaded Afghanistan.  That's all that was needed.
appropriately? i think sending a force smaller than the police force of manhattan into a pretty large, desolate country to hunt down the most wanted man in the world is a little inappropriate. we PROBABLY should have done a LITTLE more to find the man ACTUALLY responsible for 3,000 american deaths. . .  but bush says he is not a priority. maybe he should NOT have tried to finish his daddies war and not invade a country that had nothing to do with 9/11. thats my favorite part.
Well, what would have probably been the best possible action would have been for Clinton to allow our forces to kill Osama off when we discovered where he was.  Granted, Clinton had no way of knowing what was going to happen in a few years, but I suppose he should've seen it coming.

I take a lot of issues with Bush, but I really can't criticize his handling of Afghanistan.  It's sad how much better he dealt with that than Iraq.

It's like he didn't learn anything from the experience or from history (Vietnam in particular).
Commie Killer
Member
+192|6574

usmarine2005 wrote:

I wish I could measure how stupid this thread is.  Unfortunately, it is off the scales.
It broke the scale, then the entire system of measurement. I seriously didn't think we would ever see a poster this stupid, but then that "rocksrhot" guy claimed that the US isn't a free country and still belonged to the UK, so who knows. What do you think is next?
Parker
isteal
+1,452|6581|The Gem Saloon

Turquoise wrote:

deadlikeme667 wrote:

We reacted appropriately when we invaded Afghanistan.  That's all that was needed.
appropriately? i think sending a force smaller than the police force of manhattan into a pretty large, desolate country to hunt down the most wanted man in the world is a little inappropriate. we PROBABLY should have done a LITTLE more to find the man ACTUALLY responsible for 3,000 american deaths. . .  but bush says he is not a priority. maybe he should NOT have tried to finish his daddies war and not invade a country that had nothing to do with 9/11. thats my favorite part.
Well, what would have probably been the best possible action would have been for Clinton to allow our forces to kill Osama off when we discovered where he was.  Granted, Clinton had no way of knowing what was going to happen in a few years, but I suppose he should've seen it coming.

I take a lot of issues with Bush, but I really can't criticize his handling of Afghanistan.  It's sad how much better he dealt with that than Iraq.

It's like he didn't learn anything from the experience or from history (Vietnam in particular).
i personally love the response to the USS cole bombing.......random cruise missiles FTL!!!!
ghostgr
177th Field Artillery
+39|6928|In your head

Commie Killer wrote:

usmarine2005 wrote:

I wish I could measure how stupid this thread is.  Unfortunately, it is off the scales.
It broke the scale, then the entire system of measurement. I seriously didn't think we would ever see a poster this stupid, but then that "rocksrhot" guy claimed that the US isn't a free country and still belonged to the UK, so who knows. What do you think is next?
Commies are bad....oh wait that is true lol. (no offense intended just playing around)
GunSlinger OIF II
Banned.
+1,860|6831

Fen321 wrote:

If i could give you an award for this one honestly I would fly out to where you live and hand it to you personally because god damn you've taken the cake with that one
youll have to book a flight to BIAP to give it to him

Last edited by GunSlinger OIF II (2007-06-17 21:51:47)

TrollmeaT
Aspiring Objectivist
+492|6860|Colorado
Who else is going too? We have a responsibility{why?because we make wealth?} supposedly to the world because you all almost let it go to shit once. We will continue to act in the best interests of the world as a whole providing we can understand what the best interests are, but the constant onslaught of other countries trying to get us to accept their failed ideology is beginning to change this country into something that it shouldn't be.
It is time for everyone to realize that true capitalism{lassiez -faire} is the only system gear for the rational life of a man. Only a rational , productive, independent man can make the world as it is today with it's high standard of living & constant progress with technology upgrades which is stolen at every chance by every one else trying to keep up. On to the question though which I think miss rand answers perfectly.
Dictatorship nations are outlaws. Any free nation had the right to invade Nazi Germany and, today, has the right to invade soviet Russia, Cuba or any other slave pen. Whether a free nation chooses to do so or not is a matter of it's own self-interest, not of respect for the nonexistent "rights" of gang rulers. It is not a free nations duty to liberate other nations at the price of self-sacrifice, but a free nation has the right to do it, when and if it so chooses.
This right, however, is conditional. Just as the suppression of crimes does not give the policeman the right to engage in criminal activities, so the invasion & destruction of a dictatorship does not give the invader the right to establish another variant of a slave society in the conquered country.
A slave country has no national rights, but the individual rights of its citizens remain valid, even if unrecognized, and the conqueror has no right to violate them. Therefore, the invasion of an enslaved country is morally justified only when and if the conquerors establish a free social system, that is, a system based on the recognition of individual rights.
What we are trying to do in Iraq & Afghanistan
Since there is no fully free country today, since the so called "free world" consists of various "mixed economies," it might be asked whether every country on earth is morally open to invasion by every other. The answer is : No. There is a difference between a country that recognizes the principle of individual rights, but does not implement it fully in practice, and a country that denies it and flouts it explicitly.
All "mixed economies" are in a precarious state of transition which, ultimately, has to turn to freedom or collapse into dictatorship.
There are four characteristics which brand a country unmistakably as a dictatorship: one party rule -- executions without trial or with a mock trial, for political offenses -- the nationalization or expropriation of private property -- and censorship.
A country guilty of these outrages forfeits any moral prerogatives, any claim to national rights or sovereignty, and becomes an outlaw.
Italics from Ayn Rand : The virtue of selfishness : collectivized "rights" (1963)

Last edited by TrollmeaT (2007-06-17 22:05:31)

~[_-=*Hanma*=-_]~
Member
+16|6676
Bush needs more cash for his nade spam.
Chuck Biscuits
Nothing.
+13|6361|Nowhere.
Come on... Didn't anyone see the Queen of England visit the U.S. this past month?
   Why would the U.S., a "sovriegn" nation, host the queen of a country we fought so much to
break free from so many years ago? WTF seriously?

     Our government bowed down and worshiped her.
Does anybody else see the criminal in this?
TrollmeaT
Aspiring Objectivist
+492|6860|Colorado
insightful hanma, good contribution.
~[_-=*Hanma*=-_]~
Member
+16|6676
The queen is nothing but a figure. Parliament makes the decisions.

I'm just playing with you lol, I saw the chance.

Last edited by ~[_-=*Hanma*=-_]~ (2007-06-17 22:09:40)

13rin
Member
+977|6666

usmarine2005 wrote:

I wish I could measure how stupid this thread is.  Unfortunately, it is off the scales.
I got a kazoo you could borrow to help you try to measure....
I stood in line for four hours. They better give me a Wal-Mart gift card, or something.  - Rodney Booker, Job Fair attendee.
Chuck Biscuits
Nothing.
+13|6361|Nowhere.
Not that Englands our enemy, it doesn't even matter that they may be our ally,
the problem is that the Britians have and still do control our govt.

   From the beginning, Freemasonry, the Illuminati?, You guys realize president Bush (aka stupid idiot)
and good ol' John kerry are both members of Skull & Bones secret Yale society elitists shit balls.
The Bilderburgwer Club in Northern California annually hosts a party for elitists like bush and many world leaders and
power holders.
       
     They've got a hold on us and we were fools to have let it happen right under our noses.
Thats why its so important to look into things beyond what you see on FOX or ABC blah blah blah.
This is a mess people.
Chuck Biscuits
Nothing.
+13|6361|Nowhere.

~[_-=*Hanma*=-_]~ wrote:

The queen is nothing but a figure. Parliament makes the decisions.

I'm just playing with you lol, I saw the chance.
Right... but that doesn't change the fact that parliament /and or the Queen are the same thing.

You have to look them as a single entity/object. ok

     Now, since the U.S of America is a S O V R E I G N nation, understand, why are our current elected leaders/administration,
blatently, right under our noses folks, showing such respect and BOWING to the wueen of a country that once tried to overtake
what America was trying to become?
Chuck Biscuits
Nothing.
+13|6361|Nowhere.
you all are a bunch of rocks
Commie Killer
Member
+192|6574

Chuck Biscuits wrote:

Not that Englands our enemy, it doesn't even matter that they may be our ally,
the problem is that the Britians have and still do control our govt.

   From the beginning, Freemasonry, the Illuminati?, You guys realize president Bush (aka stupid idiot)
and good ol' John kerry are both members of Skull & Bones secret Yale society elitists shit balls.
The Bilderburgwer Club in Northern California annually hosts a party for elitists like bush and many world leaders and
power holders.
       
     They've got a hold on us and we were fools to have let it happen right under our noses.
Thats why its so important to look into things beyond what you see on FOX or ABC blah blah blah.
This is a mess people.
Oh god. Well, I think we should rename this topic, try to make all people like him^^ and the topic poster go here and here only. Damn, I hate stupid people. The government isnt smart enough to conspire against us like all of your tin foil hat wearing idiots think, do you seriously think they have the ability to keep things quite? I mean Jesus, we would know about it before it happened.

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