BF2S Forums Geneva Conventions No Longer Valid?

sergeriver wrote:

DeathBecomesYu wrote:

Surprise, surprise...another post to jump on the anti-American bandwagon. I'm sure every person we detain is a choir boy. Like i have said in other posts here. When will you people address the REAL injustices going on all over the world that are much worse and more severe than America detaining prisoners or possible/actual terrorists. I bet you anything that in many cases, the info these operations gain have stopped some pretty bad things from happening.

I'll say it again....NO COUNTRY is innocent from doing wrong or has a perfect, spotless record. NO COUNTRY can say they are not holding innocent people in their prisons whether it is secret or not. NO COUNTRY can say that they do not have covert/ black operations going on even as we speak. It all, of course, focuses on America in the end. I truly believe our morals are above or equal to most countries around the world. That is my belief and my right to believe that. I could list injustice after injustice that exist in this world that no one here is posting or being critical about...that is a true double standard. I love my country and what it stands for and would never want to live anywhere else. Its funny that we are such an "evil" place but no where in the world does any country have such a HUGE immigration problem as America does. I wonder why so many risk there lives to get here...maybe because of immoral, corrupt governments they are fleeing or maybe a better life that America does offer(if you come here legally) I don't see a mass exodus happening from America, we must be doing some things right. Maybe not everything...but most. Okay, waiting for the next "you bad Americans" post.

Anti-American?  The prisons are in European countries and Syria, so it's anti-World.  Stop the "Oh, another anti-American thread" BS coz you feel attacked.  If there were these prisons here, which I really don't know, I would criticize them as much as the ones mentioned in the article.  Don't play the anti-American card.

Then why dont you critize the rest of the world....pretty much anything you post is about America (CIA), its army, its leaders....etc, etc. Its obvious what your post is about. Yes, these "secret" prisons are in other countries, but the bottom line is that the article is aimed at one country and the actions of one entity (the CIA). The article you posted is not criticizing anyone else but the United States. You can twist it all you want but it was and is pretty obvious how you feel.

DeathBecomesYu wrote:

sergeriver wrote:

DeathBecomesYu wrote:

Surprise, surprise...another post to jump on the anti-American bandwagon. I'm sure every person we detain is a choir boy. Like i have said in other posts here. When will you people address the REAL injustices going on all over the world that are much worse and more severe than America detaining prisoners or possible/actual terrorists. I bet you anything that in many cases, the info these operations gain have stopped some pretty bad things from happening.

I'll say it again....NO COUNTRY is innocent from doing wrong or has a perfect, spotless record. NO COUNTRY can say they are not holding innocent people in their prisons whether it is secret or not. NO COUNTRY can say that they do not have covert/ black operations going on even as we speak. It all, of course, focuses on America in the end. I truly believe our morals are above or equal to most countries around the world. That is my belief and my right to believe that. I could list injustice after injustice that exist in this world that no one here is posting or being critical about...that is a true double standard. I love my country and what it stands for and would never want to live anywhere else. Its funny that we are such an "evil" place but no where in the world does any country have such a HUGE immigration problem as America does. I wonder why so many risk there lives to get here...maybe because of immoral, corrupt governments they are fleeing or maybe a better life that America does offer(if you come here legally) I don't see a mass exodus happening from America, we must be doing some things right. Maybe not everything...but most. Okay, waiting for the next "you bad Americans" post.

Anti-American?  The prisons are in European countries and Syria, so it's anti-World.  Stop the "Oh, another anti-American thread" BS coz you feel attacked.  If there were these prisons here, which I really don't know, I would criticize them as much as the ones mentioned in the article.  Don't play the anti-American card.

Then why dont you critize the rest of the world....pretty much anything you post is about America (CIA), its army, its leaders....etc, etc. Its obvious what your post is about. Yes, these "secret" prisons are in other countries, but the bottom line is that the article is aimed at one country and the actions of one entity (the CIA). The article you posted is not criticizing anyone else but the United States. You can twist it all you want but it was and is pretty obvious how you feel.

When did I criticize American soldiers, or any other American leader than GWB?  The article is about violations of the Geneva Conventions, not the US, not you.  This administration and the CIA are not America.  When someone, in this case the BBC, posts something about a person, GWB, or an institution, CIA, it's not aimed to the US, but to that person and the government.  America is not GWB or the CIA, it's the people.

rdx-fx wrote:

Hmm, If we no longer have the "moral high ground", I guess we can start..

.. Using artillery to wipe out suspected enemy-held villages, rather that bother with this whole pesky door-to-door crap
.. Beheading Al Jazeera journalists for lying and airing enemy-produced videos and propaganda
.. Just outright annex the Iraqi oilfields, and let the rest of the country have it's little civil war without us
.. Start killing off prisoners, rather than drop them off alive so they can badmouth their treatment by the CIA
.. Just kill off all the prisoners at Gitmo.  No bad press from former detainees
.. Stop doing patrols to secure urban areas from AQI (yay! no more "Manned-Mobile-IED/EFP-Detector, single use, one each, tan" A.K.A humvee)
.. Call in the B-52's to just carpet bomb the hell out of Baghdad (Free Martyrdom for EVERYONE!!!)
.. Change the ROE to "if they carry any firearm or electronic device - shoot 'em". Better than the "wait for hostile intent" thing.

[smell the sarcasm here?]

Point is:  The US Military is taking serious risks to it's personnel to 'do things right' - Whatever the CIA's Ivy League prissy boys are up to, I couldn't say.  But don't lump the CIA/NSA behavior in with the Military.  Two very different animals.

I agree with this thread.  Many will jump on 'Americas' lack of morals and treatment of prisoners, but do not say one word about the way ours are treated.  America is held to a higher standard than ANY other nation on earth.  Any mistake or negative piece of news is broadcast worldwide as proof of how immoral, evil, and unjust America is.  If the same activity were conducted by any other nation, it would barely raise comment.

But that is all right.  Everyone knows we have pig-headed, prejudiced, hypocritical idiots here in America.  Just nice to know we aren't the only ones that have them.

Take every negative article you have on the US.  Stack them up.  Decide how evil and corrupt we are.  Then find the countries the US sent aid to.  Volunteers travelling across the world to help people, often in countries where, they put you in jail to rot if you bad mouth their country.  If you make it to jail.  How aid and relief flow from america all over the world at every national disaster.  At moneys given to most countries on earth for aid.  Look at those soldiers in Iraq, defending the civilians in Iraq as a group of terrorists from outside of Iraq bomb and kill Iraqis as the terrorists attempt to make Iraq a country of their own power. 

Yes, perhaps the spooky and black areas of our goverment are doing things polite folks might not want to know about to obtain information to keep our nation safe.  They are also finding out about activities of terrorists in other countries.

There was a quote once, I forget whom, that said "Americans may sleep soundly in their beds because there are violent men standing ready to defend them at a moments notice." 

But lets hear what some of you have to say about how the 'insurgents' in Iraq treat their prisoners.

I've been criticised in this thread for only bashing the Americans on this topic so I would hereby like to express my disgust at the nations who housed and assisted in the running of these torture camps/prisons. I've expressed my disgust at my own Country in the past for compromising its neutrality and allowing US soldiers to pass through Shannon and do not want to sit on the fence here ...all nations involved are to be blamed.

sergeriver wrote:

Pug wrote:

thanks for the laugh serge

I dunno why but, you're welcome.

It's must be laughable. Geneva Conventions though... are for prisoners of war, which many aren't thanks to the clever wording and synonyms. Still, our prisoners still have their heads after all these years.

BTW Serge- 99.1% complete with GT4 after Formula GT World Championship (the 15 endurance race in extreme events) and my Sauber C9 race car is amazing.

DeathBecomesYu wrote:

Surprise, surprise...another post to jump on the anti-American bandwagon. I'm sure every person we detain is a choir boy. Like i have said in other posts here. When will you people address the REAL injustices going on all over the world that are much worse and more severe than America detaining prisoners or possible/actual terrorists. I bet you anything that in many cases, the info these operations gain have stopped some pretty bad things from happening.

I'll say it again....NO COUNTRY is innocent from doing wrong or has a perfect, spotless record. NO COUNTRY can say they are not holding innocent people in their prisons whether it is secret or not. NO COUNTRY can say that they do not have covert/ black operations going on even as we speak. It all, of course, focuses on America in the end. I truly believe our morals are above or equal to most countries around the world. That is my belief and my right to believe that. I could list injustice after injustice that exist in this world that no one here is posting or being critical about...that is a true double standard. I love my country and what it stands for and would never want to live anywhere else. Its funny that we are such an "evil" place but no where in the world does any country have such a HUGE immigration problem as America does. I wonder why so many risk there lives to get here...maybe because of immoral, corrupt governments they are fleeing or maybe a better life that America does offer(if you come here legally) I don't see a mass exodus happening from America, we must be doing some things right. Maybe not everything...but most. Okay, waiting for the next "you bad Americans" post.

Oh no, just because we're the most powerful country, and we get the most hate, means we can do what we like!

Give me a fucking break.

Spark wrote:

DeathBecomesYu wrote:

Surprise, surprise...another post to jump on the anti-American bandwagon. I'm sure every person we detain is a choir boy. Like i have said in other posts here. When will you people address the REAL injustices going on all over the world that are much worse and more severe than America detaining prisoners or possible/actual terrorists. I bet you anything that in many cases, the info these operations gain have stopped some pretty bad things from happening.

I'll say it again....NO COUNTRY is innocent from doing wrong or has a perfect, spotless record. NO COUNTRY can say they are not holding innocent people in their prisons whether it is secret or not. NO COUNTRY can say that they do not have covert/ black operations going on even as we speak. It all, of course, focuses on America in the end. I truly believe our morals are above or equal to most countries around the world. That is my belief and my right to believe that. I could list injustice after injustice that exist in this world that no one here is posting or being critical about...that is a true double standard. I love my country and what it stands for and would never want to live anywhere else. Its funny that we are such an "evil" place but no where in the world does any country have such a HUGE immigration problem as America does. I wonder why so many risk there lives to get here...maybe because of immoral, corrupt governments they are fleeing or maybe a better life that America does offer(if you come here legally) I don't see a mass exodus happening from America, we must be doing some things right. Maybe not everything...but most. Okay, waiting for the next "you bad Americans" post.

Oh no, just because we're the most powerful country, and we get the most hate, means we can do what we like!

Give me a fucking break.

HUH??????????????where did i say anything like that...please read the post and open your mind the next time. I specifically state that we don't do everything right, that we are as good or better than most countries in how we treat people or how we try to treat people and that NO country is innocent when it comes to the treatment of its prisoners. I specifically stated that we do not have a monopoly on messing up. There is a whole world of mess that is caused by many others. I am stating that that many people focus on the U.S. when there is so much worse going on every where.  Even in my other post, I state that wrong is wrong no matter who does it. NEVER said the U.S. could to what it likes...this is what I mean about people who are closed minded and focusing way to much on something that isn't there.

DeathBecomesYu wrote:

Spark wrote:

DeathBecomesYu wrote:

Surprise, surprise...another post to jump on the anti-American bandwagon. I'm sure every person we detain is a choir boy. Like i have said in other posts here. When will you people address the REAL injustices going on all over the world that are much worse and more severe than America detaining prisoners or possible/actual terrorists. I bet you anything that in many cases, the info these operations gain have stopped some pretty bad things from happening.

I'll say it again....NO COUNTRY is innocent from doing wrong or has a perfect, spotless record. NO COUNTRY can say they are not holding innocent people in their prisons whether it is secret or not. NO COUNTRY can say that they do not have covert/ black operations going on even as we speak. It all, of course, focuses on America in the end. I truly believe our morals are above or equal to most countries around the world. That is my belief and my right to believe that. I could list injustice after injustice that exist in this world that no one here is posting or being critical about...that is a true double standard. I love my country and what it stands for and would never want to live anywhere else. Its funny that we are such an "evil" place but no where in the world does any country have such a HUGE immigration problem as America does. I wonder why so many risk there lives to get here...maybe because of immoral, corrupt governments they are fleeing or maybe a better life that America does offer(if you come here legally) I don't see a mass exodus happening from America, we must be doing some things right. Maybe not everything...but most. Okay, waiting for the next "you bad Americans" post.

Oh no, just because we're the most powerful country, and we get the most hate, means we can do what we like!

Give me a fucking break.

HUH??????????????where did i say anything like that...please read the post and open your mind the next time. I specifically state that we don't do everything right, that we are as good or better than most countries in how we treat people or how we try to treat people and that NO country is innocent when it comes to the treatment of its prisoners. I specifically stated that we do not have a monopoly on messing up. There is a whole world of mess that is caused by many others. I am stating that that many people focus on the U.S. when there is so much worse going on every where.  Even in my other post, I state that wrong is wrong no matter who does it. NEVER said the U.S. could to what it likes...this is what I mean about people who are closed minded and focusing way to much on something that isn't there.

All you say is true, but nobody is picking on the US for this.  What is wrong is wrong, like you said.  And what does matter here is the fact that the US is supposed to do better than those countries from the ME with extremist laws that need Democracy to be forced upon them.  If not, then there would be double standards.

Clark W Griswald wrote:

Guess it is not just the evil USA is it?

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070617/ap_ … med_guilty

"Latin America's prisons are overflowing with men, women and children who have not been put on trial, much less convicted."

indeed, most of our judicial systems is so dated and contains so much bull shit i dont know where to start.

being a terrorist isn't all glory - believe it or not, the medal has a backside. either you succeed and most likely get blown to pieces. (and after you die, you are forced into having sex with 72 in-experienced virgins, who will fuck up a fuck. that's fun once or twice - NOT 72 times in a row!)

or ells you will fail, and then the backside is imprisonment - with no fame or front pages - just in dark solitary... where they belong. that's the conditions for a terrorist. if you can't handle it, go to McDonald's and flip burgers instead...