Thankfully this isn't thread about eradicating all Muslims, as I first suspected.
it depends on the breed, some breeds such as pit bulls are bred to be aggressive its one of the things that they were meant to be, its like the same way that any shepharding dog, i.e. a german shepard or a border collie will instinctively watch over everyone in their family and try to hurd them (generally to great amusement and confusion)
but being aggressive is a pit bulls most basi and strong instinct although if well trained and they are hard to train and depending on the people around them too (as its a known scientific fact that dogs if raised from the same person from a young age will pick up their behaviour and use them as a rolemodel.) which is probably why omnideaths brother had a nice well behaved one, whilst if you look many of the pit bulls around in britain are owned by generally (not always but generally) violent louts.
EDIT: pit bulls are an official breed as well you'll find.
but being aggressive is a pit bulls most basi and strong instinct although if well trained and they are hard to train and depending on the people around them too (as its a known scientific fact that dogs if raised from the same person from a young age will pick up their behaviour and use them as a rolemodel.) which is probably why omnideaths brother had a nice well behaved one, whilst if you look many of the pit bulls around in britain are owned by generally (not always but generally) violent louts.
EDIT: pit bulls are an official breed as well you'll find.
Last edited by Noobeater (2007-06-07 07:58:11)
Im not getting into personal squabbles. Cough*spellcheck Cough* They go nowhere on this forum. Your metaphor still fails.Sym-5150- wrote:
Well you have to have a IQ above 80 to see it.Mason4Assassin444 wrote:
That metaphor fails.Sym-5150- wrote:
It's kind hard to get rid of a breed that is not even a "official" breed. Where do draw the line? No since in blaming the breeders/owners! I'm sure you want to sue gun manufactures too? It's the guns not the person behind it!
we could do this with themFenris_GreyClaw wrote:
If it was made illegal to have one, what would they do with all of them? Something tells me wild/feral Pit-bulls aren't an option.Bertster7 wrote:
It's a fair point. They are bred to fight and kill, they're not safe as pets. They should be illegal. I dunno about utterly exterminated, but you certainly shouldn't be able to own one.
I know. The first part was a joke, that's why I said "In all seriousness" afterwards. I don't sympathize with any of those people.Sym-5150- wrote:
Micheal Vick and his kind are more to blame, where do you think the dogs that don't fight go? There breeding programs make these monsters, selecting only the most aggressive to breed.sexecuti0ner wrote:
But then how would Micheal Vick spend his free time??
In all seriousness, I think it's the upbringing of the dog. You can bring it up to be a friend to the family or you can raise it to be a mean POS. I honestly think that the rap videos that make it look cool to own dogs for fighting is one of the main reasons the breed is a problem.
In actuality, more people go hospitals from bites from smaller dogs. The attacks from Pitbulls are of course much worse and are publicized. I personally would never own one because they are unpredictable but any dog can be. My sister was attacked by a dog other than a pitbull....something just triggered the dog and it attacked, i knew the dog and never thought or saw that dog as a threat. Anyhow...it usually comes down to owners and how the dogs are raised. That's why I own cats....not dogs, i don't have to worry about unpredictability.
My father owns a Staffordshire Bull Terrier, Staffs are bigger and stronger than Pit Bulls, huge muscles, massive jaw, basically desinged to tear throats off stuff, yet my dad's dog (which incidentally is about 175% the size of a normal Staff, thus making a Pit Bull look like a Chiuaua) will do nothing more than drool on your lap til you give him a bit of fuss.Bertster7 wrote:
Breed certainly does dictate behaviour.TheEternalPessimist wrote:
Breed doesn't dictate behaviour, you raise a dog to fight and it will fight, you raise it to be friendly it'll be friendly, exterminate the owners.
Breed dictates nothing but build, the reason Pit Bulls have a bad rep is because the people who buy them want to train them for fighting, as their breed makes them a good choice for a fighting dog due to the heavy muscuar build and strong bite, raised by a normal person they'd be perfectly good pets.
I'll upload some pictures of Monty (my dads dog) later, just to give you an idea of his size.
Last edited by TheEternalPessimist (2007-06-07 07:58:52)
Here take my hand, and I'll walk you through it...... Instead of blaming the cause, the tool is blamed. Dogs, guns, drugs, cars, etc.......Bertster7 wrote:
No, it just fails. Dogs and guns are incomparable. Guns don't go nuts and start shooting people without interaction from the owner.Sym-5150- wrote:
Well you have to have a IQ above 80 to see it.Mason4Assassin444 wrote:
That metaphor fails.
Im not gonna even bother reading that article because its bollocks, ok pitbulls are mean dogs dont get me wrong but it's not their fault that humans decide to have them as friggin pets, has anyone thought that maybe they should not be kept as pets? Its like letting a tiger look after your child. You cant just kill off a species just because they hurt a few humans its what predators do. Im not saying what the dog did was right but its fair to say that we should not be keeping them as pets and its as much our fault as theirs.ATG wrote:
Against Pit Bulls.
http://www.dailybreeze.com/news/regstat … 79386.html
Happened yesterday.
These animals need to be exterminated, wiped out, rounded up and put to death. Eliminated as a breed.
They are unpredictable animals that maim and kill dozen every year.
Enough.
http://www.city-journal.org/html/9_2_scared_of_pit.html
On the other hand If you were joking then..haha i guess
Edit: ok i should of read the post, well maybe someone should tell the owners of the dogs to stop treating them like shit, alot of the time dogs bad behaviour is due to an abusive upbringing
Last edited by Ace.O.Lamb (2007-06-07 08:04:29)
????Mason4Assassin444 wrote:
Im not getting into personal squabbles. Cough*spellcheck Cough* They go nowhere on this forum. Your metaphor still fails.Sym-5150- wrote:
Well you have to have a IQ above 80 to see it.Mason4Assassin444 wrote:
That metaphor fails.
Breed dictates behaviour.TheEternalPessimist wrote:
My father owns a Staffordshire Bull Terrier, Staffs are bigger and stronger than Pit Bulls, huge muscles, massive jaw, basically desinged to tear throats off stuff, yet my dad's dog (which incidentally is about 175% the size of a normal Staff, thus making a Pit Bull look like a Chiuaua) will do nothing more than drool on your lap til you give him a bit of fuss.Bertster7 wrote:
Breed certainly does dictate behaviour.TheEternalPessimist wrote:
Breed doesn't dictate behaviour, you raise a dog to fight and it will fight, you raise it to be friendly it'll be friendly, exterminate the owners.
Breed dictates nothing but build, the reason Pit Bulls have a bad rep is because the people who buy them want to train them for fighting, as their breed makes them a good choice for a fighting dog due to the heavy muscuar build and strong bite, raised by a normal person they'd be perfectly good pets.
I'll upload some pictures of Monty (my dads dog) later, just to give you an idea of his size.
I bet guns cause more deaths but let's not ban those eh?ATG wrote:
Against Pit Bulls.
http://www.dailybreeze.com/news/regstat … 79386.html
Happened yesterday.
These animals need to be exterminated, wiped out, rounded up and put to death. Eliminated as a breed.
They are unpredictable animals that maim and kill dozen every year.
Enough.
http://www.city-journal.org/html/9_2_scared_of_pit.html
If I said that about Humans (i.e Blacks, Asians etc) I would be branded racistBertster7 wrote:
Breed dictates behaviour.TheEternalPessimist wrote:
My father owns a Staffordshire Bull Terrier, Staffs are bigger and stronger than Pit Bulls, huge muscles, massive jaw, basically desinged to tear throats off stuff, yet my dad's dog (which incidentally is about 175% the size of a normal Staff, thus making a Pit Bull look like a Chiuaua) will do nothing more than drool on your lap til you give him a bit of fuss.Bertster7 wrote:
Breed certainly does dictate behaviour.
Breed dictates nothing but build, the reason Pit Bulls have a bad rep is because the people who buy them want to train them for fighting, as their breed makes them a good choice for a fighting dog due to the heavy muscuar build and strong bite, raised by a normal person they'd be perfectly good pets.
I'll upload some pictures of Monty (my dads dog) later, just to give you an idea of his size.
Though the guns are only indirectly responsible for those deaths, whereas the dogs aren't - unless the owner has used the dog to club someone to death.=OBS= EstebanRey wrote:
I bet guns cause more deaths but let's not ban those eh?ATG wrote:
Against Pit Bulls.
http://www.dailybreeze.com/news/regstat … 79386.html
Happened yesterday.
These animals need to be exterminated, wiped out, rounded up and put to death. Eliminated as a breed.
They are unpredictable animals that maim and kill dozen every year.
Enough.
http://www.city-journal.org/html/9_2_scared_of_pit.html
There is a difference.
I guess my father owns a violent hunting dog, that kills everything it sees... oh wait it doesn't.Bertster7 wrote:
Breed dictates behaviour.TheEternalPessimist wrote:
My father owns a Staffordshire Bull Terrier, Staffs are bigger and stronger than Pit Bulls, huge muscles, massive jaw, basically desinged to tear throats off stuff, yet my dad's dog (which incidentally is about 175% the size of a normal Staff, thus making a Pit Bull look like a Chiuaua) will do nothing more than drool on your lap til you give him a bit of fuss.Bertster7 wrote:
Breed certainly does dictate behaviour.
Breed dictates nothing but build, the reason Pit Bulls have a bad rep is because the people who buy them want to train them for fighting, as their breed makes them a good choice for a fighting dog due to the heavy muscuar build and strong bite, raised by a normal person they'd be perfectly good pets.
I'll upload some pictures of Monty (my dads dog) later, just to give you an idea of his size.
Staffs originally were bred to kill, they are of the same family ads Pit Bulls, Monty being living proof that behaviour is taught, he could kill pretty much anything short of a horse without a lot of effort yet he's happy to lick his balls and run around in circles chasing his tail like a complete twat, I've watched him sit perfectly still and calm while other dogs have gone ape shit at him, he just ignores them, theres no violent intent in him.
With humans the effects are much smaller. Dogs have the widest degree of variety of species of any animal. There are loads of breeds with wildly varying characteristics. Humans don't have that level of variety. That is why the difference in behaviour between people of differing races is so minimal (but still existent).=OBS= EstebanRey wrote:
If I said that about Humans (i.e Blacks, Asians etc) I would be branded racistBertster7 wrote:
Breed dictates behaviour.TheEternalPessimist wrote:
My father owns a Staffordshire Bull Terrier, Staffs are bigger and stronger than Pit Bulls, huge muscles, massive jaw, basically desinged to tear throats off stuff, yet my dad's dog (which incidentally is about 175% the size of a normal Staff, thus making a Pit Bull look like a Chiuaua) will do nothing more than drool on your lap til you give him a bit of fuss.
Breed dictates nothing but build, the reason Pit Bulls have a bad rep is because the people who buy them want to train them for fighting, as their breed makes them a good choice for a fighting dog due to the heavy muscuar build and strong bite, raised by a normal person they'd be perfectly good pets.
I'll upload some pictures of Monty (my dads dog) later, just to give you an idea of his size.
Personally I'm not a fan of killing animals deemed "dangerous", but I do think they need to ban breeding (which has been/was going to be/will be done in Australia or Victoria, or something.................)
They were bred for pit fighting, and since we don't have animals fight for entertainment anymore..................
They were bred for pit fighting, and since we don't have animals fight for entertainment anymore..................
well yes you would but dogs are different as they are one of the few animals that humans can actually force to evolve, for instance all dogs came from wolves right well its safe to say that all the dog breeds we have now are bred for specific purposes and to improve specific traits e.g. a terriers are bred to be small and quite aggressive to other things as they're bred to hunt rats and other small creatures, whereas a retrievers built to be quite fast and very loyal and relatively easy to train. all malamutes and huskies were bred to be strong dogs that are very loyal to their owners as you don't want to be in the middle of the arctic with a bunch or huskies who are hungry and hate you.
thats only a few examples
thats only a few examples
Breed dictates behaviour.TheEternalPessimist wrote:
I guess my father owns a violent hunting dog, that kills everything it sees... oh wait it doesn't.Bertster7 wrote:
Breed dictates behaviour.TheEternalPessimist wrote:
My father owns a Staffordshire Bull Terrier, Staffs are bigger and stronger than Pit Bulls, huge muscles, massive jaw, basically desinged to tear throats off stuff, yet my dad's dog (which incidentally is about 175% the size of a normal Staff, thus making a Pit Bull look like a Chiuaua) will do nothing more than drool on your lap til you give him a bit of fuss.
Breed dictates nothing but build, the reason Pit Bulls have a bad rep is because the people who buy them want to train them for fighting, as their breed makes them a good choice for a fighting dog due to the heavy muscuar build and strong bite, raised by a normal person they'd be perfectly good pets.
I'll upload some pictures of Monty (my dads dog) later, just to give you an idea of his size.
Staffs originally were bred to kill, they are of the same family ads Pit Bulls, Monty being living proof that behaviour is taught, he could kill pretty much anything short of a horse without a lot of effort yet he's happy to lick his balls and run around in circles chasing his tail like a complete twat, I've watched him sit perfectly still and calm while other dogs have gone ape shit at him, he just ignores them, theres no violent intent in him.
Your personal experience with one specific dog, that may or may not be considered a dangerous breed, I don't know - it doesn't sound like you know either - is completely irrelevant. Find me a source that says breed does not significantly influence behaviour.
In the meantime here's a quick snippet from wiki:
Dogs are very social animals, but their personality and behavior vary with breed as well as how they are treated by their owners and others who come in contact with them.
We'll, It all depends on who & how the owner raises the dog. So no, They should not be killed.
They is no way to account how they are treated by or bred for by their owners. If an owner acquires one without having had it from birth, they don't know how it was treated prior. Unlike the majority of other dogs, this dogs jaws have ungodly strength. When they do attack any melee a human produces is nearly ineffective. Some have said small caliber handguns are ineffective.
Compared to a German Shepard they are dumb as rocks and they are ugly.
They should be rounded up and burned alive in a vast pit in a televised special.
Compared to a German Shepard they are dumb as rocks and they are ugly.
They should be rounded up and burned alive in a vast pit in a televised special.
Because of their physical makeup they're a dangerous breed imo. Even if one is friendly, it's still an animal with instincts. If it bites is has the potential to severely injure and possibly kill what or who it's attacking depending on their size and strength and the location of the attack.
Using your own logic to a slightly different point, what your saying is upbringing has no influence on behaviour, so by that reason every single human being on the planet behaves in exactly the same way, we are after all one strain of a primate species.Bertster7 wrote:
Breed dictates behaviour.TheEternalPessimist wrote:
I guess my father owns a violent hunting dog, that kills everything it sees... oh wait it doesn't.Bertster7 wrote:
Breed dictates behaviour.
Staffs originally were bred to kill, they are of the same family ads Pit Bulls, Monty being living proof that behaviour is taught, he could kill pretty much anything short of a horse without a lot of effort yet he's happy to lick his balls and run around in circles chasing his tail like a complete twat, I've watched him sit perfectly still and calm while other dogs have gone ape shit at him, he just ignores them, theres no violent intent in him.
Your personal experience with one specific dog, that may or may not be considered a dangerous breed, I don't know - it doesn't sound like you know either - is completely irrelevant. Find me a source that says breed does not significantly influence behaviour.
In the meantime here's a quick snippet from wiki:Dogs are very social animals, but their personality and behavior vary with breed as well as how they are treated by their owners and others who come in contact with them.
BTW, I have more knowedge of violent dogs than you know, I was mauled by a bull terrier when i was 8, that dog turned out to have been raised to fight, every single one i've come across sinse (and thats about 400+ going to all the dog shows and terrier owners meetings with my dad) has been soppy, well behaved, loving & friendly buggers who want to do nothing but play, the closet thing I've seen to violence in a well trained bull terrier was getting knocked over by one when it was playing.
Last edited by TheEternalPessimist (2007-06-07 08:19:18)
That's not what I'm saying at all. Training plays an extremely important role. As I have already acknowledged several times, like here:TheEternalPessimist wrote:
Using your own logic to a slightly different point, what your saying is upbringing has no influence on behaviour, so by that reason every single human being on the planet behaves in exactly the same way, we are after all one strain of a primate species.Bertster7 wrote:
Breed dictates behaviour.TheEternalPessimist wrote:
I guess my father owns a violent hunting dog, that kills everything it sees... oh wait it doesn't.
Staffs originally were bred to kill, they are of the same family ads Pit Bulls, Monty being living proof that behaviour is taught, he could kill pretty much anything short of a horse without a lot of effort yet he's happy to lick his balls and run around in circles chasing his tail like a complete twat, I've watched him sit perfectly still and calm while other dogs have gone ape shit at him, he just ignores them, theres no violent intent in him.
Your personal experience with one specific dog, that may or may not be considered a dangerous breed, I don't know - it doesn't sound like you know either - is completely irrelevant. Find me a source that says breed does not significantly influence behaviour.
In the meantime here's a quick snippet from wiki:Dogs are very social animals, but their personality and behavior vary with breed as well as how they are treated by their owners and others who come in contact with them.
BTW, I have more knowedge of violent dogs than you know, I was mauled by a bull terrier when i was 8, that dog turned out to have been raised to fight, every single one i've come across sinse (and thats about 400+ going to all the dog shows and terrier owners meetings with my dad) has been soppy, well behaved, loving & friendly buggers who want to do nothing but play, the closet thing I've seen to violence in a well trained bull terrier was getting knocked over by one when it was playing.
The wiki quote I posted also noted that point.Bertster7 wrote:
It does.Mason4Assassin444 wrote:
TRAINING dictates behavior.
So does breed.
Your experience with so called violent dogs is still, as I said earlier, completely irrelevant. The argument that breed does not influence behaviour is just plain silly.
Last edited by Bertster7 (2007-06-07 08:25:12)
By far the most idiotic, uneducated, ignorant and hateful thing I have ever seen you post.ATG wrote:
Against Pit Bulls.
http://www.dailybreeze.com/news/regstat … 79386.html
Happened yesterday.
These animals need to be exterminated, wiped out, rounded up and put to death. Eliminated as a breed.
They are unpredictable animals that maim and kill dozen every year.
Enough.
http://www.city-journal.org/html/9_2_scared_of_pit.html
Pitbulls catch a bad rap for all the evil shit their masters do to them and make them do. I love pitbulls, out of all the animals I have ever owned, the pitbull is by far the best, gentlest, smartest, most loyal and by FAR the most loving. It's is the fuck head animal breeders who raise them to fight, or mistreat them that are responsible for these events, not the dog. Remember the dog from The Little Rascals? Pitbull. What a fucking devil he was, to bad no one exterminated him huh?
I raised my dog the right way, the loving way, and she turned out to be the best pet I ever had. I had her trained to herd cattle and even get the newspaper OUT OF THE MAILBOX. She played with nearly all the children in my family from ages 3 to 15 without a single incident. On the other hand if someone she didn't know pulled up in the yard she would stand at their door and growl at them until I said "friend" then she would roll over and turn into putty. That dog kept pests, rodents and other animals off our property and guarded our livestock at night from Coyotes and stray dogs.
Then one day she decided to go to the neighbor down the roads house to "see her boyfriend" and he shot her. It was an ignorant asshole like yourself, that didn't know any better than what the media told him about the breed, that shot my dog for no reason. In turn, I split his dogs head open with a hatchet, threatened to kill him and then over the course of the next 3 months shot all of his dogs that meandered onto my property since we no longer had a dog of our own to defend it. Later that month one of our horses was run into a fence and had to be put down, rodents over ran our yard and after a year we had at least 30 stray cats living in our barn, who I later had to exterminate. All because some asshole saw pitbull and thought "bad".
So maybe you and the rest of the goddamned world should do a little research before you go around calling for their genocide and blaming every dog mauling on their so called "desperate, hateful, pre-programmed genetic inclination" to be baby killers.