Cerpin_Taxt
Member
+155|6227
Hypothetical situation:

Similar to the events in Red Storm Rising, Russia launches an invasion of Europe starting with Germany. At first glance, there are not enough NATO forces in Europe to stop thousands of invading Russian tanks. In an all out conventional war, could NATO forces in Europe successfully repel an invasion without the aid of the US?

Keeping in mind all facets of a military (army, navy, air force, etc.), how do you think it would all go down?
usmarine
Banned
+2,785|6785

Yes.  Russia just painted over their old rust buckets.
derstralle
Iron Egg Skill, bitches!
+29|6239
Nuclear weapons -> end
Cerpin_Taxt
Member
+155|6227

derstralle wrote:

Nuclear weapons -> end

Cerpin_Taxt wrote:

In an all out conventional war...
Agent_Dung_Bomb
Member
+302|6760|Salt Lake City

Right now I would say yes.  I don't think Russia currently has the logistical capability to move that many troops and equipment.
GunSlinger OIF II
Banned.
+1,860|6667
the russians wont really have any reservations about totally annihilating big population areas with artillery.   I dont see the EU with being as ruthless in their defence as russia would be with their offense.
stef10
Member
+173|6506|Denmark
Remember the EU will get the help from H&K, then the Russ would get pwned!!!
derstralle
Iron Egg Skill, bitches!
+29|6239

Cerpin_Taxt wrote:

derstralle wrote:

Nuclear weapons -> end

Cerpin_Taxt wrote:

In an all out conventional war...
If a nuclear power loses a defensive conventional war it WILL make use of nuclear weapons.
So therefore your question is purely hypothetical.
edit: ok, you mentioned that in the OP

Last edited by derstralle (2007-06-04 10:51:38)

Mekstizzle
WALKER
+3,611|6645|London, England
Conventionally (this would never happen as Trident and M45's would be hittin' it up) we would have a chance. Germany, France, and the UK would fare well, but i do think that Russia would gain ground. However the pre-commie states don't want Russian expansion again, they'd have to cut through them facing fierce resistance before they even get the West Europe, where they will most likely fail due to inferior equipment. Although recently it seems Russia has been putting out some nice stuff.

I'm saying yes we could...maybe. Russia would increase output of next generation things like Black Eagle and Su-47 tenfold. They have alot of crazy stuff in the pipeline

But what do I know? I'm just basing my facts on what i see and know

Last edited by Mekstizzle (2007-06-04 10:52:05)

Catbox
forgiveness
+505|6740
depends on what unlocks the EU has...  lol
Love is the answer
jsnipy
...
+3,276|6546|...

the power of peace would hold the russians back

Last edited by jsnipy (2007-06-04 10:52:58)

Pyrri
Member
+7|6647
I'd say: NATO in the Europe, no. Whole of Europe, yes.

Last edited by Pyrri (2007-06-04 10:53:28)

Cerpin_Taxt
Member
+155|6227
I'm not sure if NATO's combined air forces would be able to stand up to Russia's. Air superiority would certainly be key in this type of conflict.
Mekstizzle
WALKER
+3,611|6645|London, England
I think the key factor in this would be the post-soviet states and looking at how things go, they don't like the Russians much.
CannonFodder11b
Purple Heart Recipient
+73|6713|Fort Lewis WA

GunSlinger OIF II wrote:

the russians wont really have any reservations about totally annihilating big population areas with artillery.   I dont see the EU with being as ruthless in their defence as russia would be with their offense.
I agree Russia will attempt to use high angle death to rain steel on the battlefield, BUT
Much of they're arsenal is outdated.  If europe banded together and fough as one (I highly doubt that will happen) instead of individual countries, Yes without a doubt they could hold they're own and push the red wave back.  Moral in the russian military would have to be pretty damned high for them to do anything, and until russia can feed its troops in a peace time era, I dont think they will get very far with empty bellies.  But then again maybe that hunger will make them push all that much harder to get some food from viliages they have looted?
Mekstizzle
WALKER
+3,611|6645|London, England
Russian diaspora in Europe is also too large for Russia to just obliterate everything with no mercy.

Last edited by Mekstizzle (2007-06-04 10:55:31)

CannonFodder11b
Purple Heart Recipient
+73|6713|Fort Lewis WA

Mekstizzle wrote:

Conventionally (this would never happen as Trident and M45's would be hittin' it up) we would have a chance. Germany, France, and the UK would fare well, but i do think that Russia would gain ground. However the pre-commie states don't want Russian expansion again, they'd have to cut through them facing fierce resistance before they even get the West Europe, where they will most likely fail due to inferior equipment. Although recently it seems Russia has been putting out some nice stuff.

I'm saying yes we could...maybe. Russia would increase output of next generation things like Black Eagle and Su-47 tenfold. They have alot of crazy stuff in the pipeline

But what do I know? I'm just basing my facts on what i see and know
Just remember Russian military doctrine is A) flood the battlefield with 1 dollar tanks
B) if only one tank reaches the objective, and gets promptly blown the hell up, the Russians will consider that a victory. 
Sure EU can put some 100 dollar tanks onto the battle field, but that flood of $1 tanks is going to give them a run for the money.
Even the outdated tanks are still dangerous.  Add to it the AI round and i see a lot of spilled blood.
Elamdri
The New Johnnie Cochran
+134|6670|Peoria
Why an invasion? We've seen time and time again that conquest is no longer a functional mode of warfare.
Scardaddy
Member
+37|6416|UK
Hell no Europe would be done but I'm sure they would hold Moscow hostage with cruse missles and bombers from the northern terrotories.  Well thats my thought.
legionair
back to i-life
+336|6647|EU

Like World in Conflict?

I say no. If they get whole Europe, I doubt US will dare to invade old continent. They would leave us and a competition of "who has better ballistic rockets" would begin. Europe would conquer his freedom by themselves after a couple of years intensive street fighting which would grown in more local conflicts and finally brake Russian morale and cause revolution in Russia.

What about this situation: Russians are busy fighting in Europe, China strikes in the back and takes whole Siberia (zillions of resources, manufacturing). India seeing that world is busy, smashes Pakistan in nuclear attacks taking heavy casualties but still winning. Next plan- invade Pacific Islands. Japan helps them. Chaos! UN emigrate to Island.

/hypothetically
paranoid101
Ambitious but Rubbish
+540|6764
Never mind us holding out to a Russian Invasion, I would like to see how we would hold out if they cut off our Oil and Gas supply's.
~[_-=*Hanma*=-_]~
Member
+16|6513
Well lets see.
The Russian military is divided into the following branches: Ground Forces, Navy, and Air Force. There are also three independent arms of service : Strategic Missile Troops, Military Space Forces, and the Airborne Troops.
The Ground Forces are divided into six military districts: Moscow, Leningrad (not St Petersburg), North Caucausian, Privolzhsk-Ural, Siberian and Far Eastern.
The Navy consists of four fleets:

Baltic Fleet (HQ at Baltiysk in the enclave of Kaliningrad Oblast).
Pacific Fleet (HQ at Vladivostok).
Northern Fleet (HQ at Severomorsk).
Black Sea Fleet (HQ at Sevastopol, Ukraine.



Now, signs that Russia could IN FACT be planning to invade Europe, or even the USA (except we might meet missiles instead of warships).
While noting that Purchasing power parity methods have significant limitations, using the World Bank PPP rate the IISS estimates that Russia's total military-related expenditure would measure US $61.5 billion in 2004.
According to Russian reports, in FY 2002, there was about a 40% increase in arms procurement spending. However, even this increase is not enough to make up for the budget shortfalls of the previous decade. Russia's struggling arms producers will therefore intensify their efforts to seek sales to foreign governments.

About 70% of the former Soviet Union's defense industries are located in the Russian Federation. A large number of state-owned defense enterprises are on the brink of collapse as a result of cuts in weapon orders and insufficient funding to shift to production of civilian goods, while at the same time trying to meet payrolls. Many defence firms have been privatized; some have developed significant partnerships with firms in other countries.

In 2006, Russia announced plan to spend about $200 billion in development and production of military equipment (what equals to about $400 billion in PPP dollars).

Russian military doctrine has called for the reliance on the country's strategic nuclear forces as the primary deterrent against attack by a major power (such as NATO forces or the People's Republic of China). I don't agree with that, whatsoever, to me it is just another excuse. In keeping with this, the country's nuclear forces received adequate funding throughout the late 1990s. Meanwhile the rest of the military was cash-starved and decaying. Russia currently, with around 16,000 warheads possesses the largest stockpile of nuclear warheads.

Since the breakup of the Soviet Union, Russia has discussed rebuilding a viable, cohesive fighting force out of the remaining parts of the former Soviet armed forces. A new Russian military doctrine, promulgated in November 1993, acknowledges the contraction of the old Soviet military into a regional military power without global imperial ambitions. In keeping with its emphasis on the threat of regional conflicts, the doctrine calls for a Russian military that is smaller, lighter, and more mobile, with a higher degree of professionalism and with greater rapid deployment capability. Such a transformation has proven difficult, not least because - even shorn of worldwide ambitions - the sheer scale of Russia's land borders makes even a defensive military posture an immense undertaking. In 2005 Russia's spendings on new military weapons surpassed overseas sales, which were about US$6.5 billion. For 2006, there is about $9 billion budget for military equipment purchases. Cost of production of comparable weapons in Russia is three to five times less than in the United States.

Last edited by ~[_-=*Hanma*=-_]~ (2007-06-04 11:38:30)

S.Lythberg
Mastermind
+429|6470|Chicago, IL
yes, russia's army is severely outdated.
Liberal-Sl@yer
Certified BF2S Asshole
+131|6480|The edge of sanity
Of course rapid military deployment by western European countries would halt the russian advance, but the would probly demolish eastern europe
Doctor Strangelove
Real Battlefield Veterinarian.
+1,758|6492
European Technology is much more advance than Russia's. Also the Russian would need to go through allot of territory before they can attack the more powerful nations in Europe. They would get stuck for weeks fighting through Ukraine, Belarus, Poland and other countries while Germany, France and Britain can build up their militaries to repel the Russians.

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