Horseman 77 wrote:
cyborg_ninja-117 wrote:
Horseman 77 wrote:
Russia ? You mean the USSR.
The German Army had pushed the USSR out and away from its only winter port,
out of its agricultural base,
away from its petroleum reserves.
and ruined its industrial base,
Despite have delayed the start of the operation 3 months to cover Italy's blunders in Africa.
The USA supplied the USSR with every thing it needed but didn't have through the
" Murmansk Run " and opened their frozen ports with ice breakers, yes others helped.
The USA kept the USSR so well supplied that Anti Tanks guns would routinely fire AP at single German soldiers.
When it came down to it The USSR had the Nazi's beat in every abomination and aberration they committed against humanity. The County sucked and we are all glad its dead. No one mourns the loss of the USSR
Don't fuck with the USSR ? we did . their gone now.
same geographical location, but the russians still pushed forwards and Raped on an unprecedented scale, there was actually a baby boom in Europe ( Austria for example do to rapes ) and they produced the most planes in ww2 (yaks) and even their women were in the war. the cold war was not a military one, it was more of a economical one, the USSR spent too much money on their military then ppl become homeless, and no money= no tax= ur gov is fucked.
Russian planes in WWII were about 3 years lagging in Technology so they substituted with Numbers, A viable strategy in my book, Like The US Sherman Tank. Technically inferior numerically superior. During the Cold war they were 20 years behind technologically. There equipment was so poor many US intelligence people thought it was some kind of Ruse to lull us, It wasn't it just sucked. We had Equipment captured at the VTRANG 150 ATC. It would have been ok for WWII it was sadly out classed for modern combat though.
Now there is no point in the USA producing top of the line cutting edge stuff, so we produce quality 2nd line technology for the most part. Our Smart Bombs went from pin point precision ( down the chimney ) in 92 to GPS guidance ( in the front yard ) in 2004
PS House still missing.
Horseman, I have no idea, where you got your attitude from, but frankly, you should have paid more attention in school... especially history and political science.
The Germans managed to capture Odessa but that port was totally unsuited for supply convoys. All other ports (Murmansk, Leningrad and Archangelsk) were open.
The Germans never managed to capture the agricultural base of the USSR since that is located in Kasachstan...
The Germans tried but never managed to capture the Russian oilsupply located at the Caspian Sea (the area around Baku).
The Russians moved their industrial base behind the Ural to Sibiria... so actually the Germans did not reach any of those either.
Since you mention Africa... might I remind you, that Operation Barbarossa (Attack on the USSR) started on June 22nd 1941. The german military operation in Africa started February 1941 but not this was the reason for a slight delay (actually 4 Weeks, not 3 months) but it was the invasion of Yugoslavia.
Concerning the "inferiority" of Russian Technology: The M4 Sherman Tank of the US was by far the most produced Tank in WW2, however it was neither the most advanced or the most powerful one. Realistic estimates of the allied High Command say, that 5 M4 Sherman where neccessary to defeat on German Panther or Tiger Tank. The Panther Tank was actually developed in response to the Russian T-34 as it posed a serious threat to earlier models. Go figure....
Also: The Russians developed a ground attack plane, that was considered a serious threat by the Germans: the IL-2 Sturmovik... the first plane that could really be called ground attack plane. That thing was heavily armored (German Fighters had to use 20mm and 30mm cannons to down them as the 7.92mm and 12.7mm MG could not penetrate the armor and even hits of a 20mm cannon could be survived), heavily armed (2 7.62 MG which had a remarkably high fire-rate, 2 cannons of either 20mm, 23mm or 37mm, 600 kg bombload and between 8 and 16 unguided rockets) and quite maneuvrable for its size. Actually, the concept of the IL-2 is the basis of the nowadays A-10
Actually the help of the US to the USSR (apart from the help of the UK) was not quite without a hitch. First of all: all US planes supplied to the USSR via lend-lease (yup, Russia had to pay) where second line and obsolet (like the P-40 Warhawk and the P-38 Airacobra). Actually, Russian planes in WW2 where quite up to modern technological standards... however the USSR tended to build their equipment more sturdier and simpler as the western counterparts... which is a design-philosophy they stuck to.
You say, that russian technology was 20 years behind? Get real... they might have built their planes computers not with microelectronic chips but that made the electronic systems easier to maintain and interestingly enough more resistant to EMP. Also.... the T-72 and T-80 tank is superior to the M1A2 in many things...
US war equipment is suited mostly for good weather in a moderate climate... Russian equipment is suited for sand and heat of a desert or the cold weather and snow of arctic climate.
On a side note: US do not use laser guided "smart" bombs (since when are bombs smart anyway?) but GPS guided because they could not afford to bring in SEAL Teams or Force Recon to paint the Target with a laser. US tends more and more to conducting armchair-wars.
Concerning atrocities in WW2. Yes, Russia has committed many, but not nearly as many as Germany, I can tell you that. Russia did not gas humans by the millions, they did not fill nearly as many massgraves with shot POW's or Partisans as Germany did.
But as a matter of fact... the US committed atrocities in WW2 as well... like interning nearly all citizens which where of Japanese origin in internment camps under inhumane conditions... by the definition, these camps also qualify as concentration camps (in the technical term). Also it is known that US submarines in the last months of the war attacked any ship with an asiatic looking crew and sunk it (even fisherboats) regardless wether the crew was japanese, malayan, phillipin, chinese, indonesian... just because they were bored and had no targets anymore.
So... before you throw you disregard towards others, be sure that you have a clean slate... and remember: without German technological advancement (wire guided anti-tank missiles, Rocketry, Tank improvement and aviation technology), the US technology would not have been as advanced as it is now, since they stole it as spoils of victory after the war...
