BF2S Forums AT and AA stations at EVERY flag.

you know what would be fun? having a TOW at the hotel at karkand

The blackhawk is to powerfull.  I still say that the worst or the camping can be stomped by making it impossible to repair a vehicle from inside the vehicle (always was kinda weird).  Maybe weaken the noob guns on the side.

Sh4rkb1t3 wrote:

Mabey because there aren't any planes or helis on karkand?  And I've used transport for almost as long as I've used a tank (15 minutes less).  I usually only get in tanks/APC so I get driver assist kills anyway (tape down CTRL key and do homework).  I usually get 30 points a round just from getting back inside the tank/APC 3-4 times a game.

So you aren't better, you just pad.

Last edited by DavidGale (2006-01-24 16:24:06)

Nehby wrote:

Sh4rkb1t3 wrote:

LaidBackNinja wrote:

Actually, I sometimes DO play CS:S when I get tired of all the BF2 shit. It's not just the vehicles, it's the entire feeling of the game. BF2 just feels so damn stressed with people being angry all the time and hardly anybody seems to actually enjoy themselves. CS:S gives me a much 'happier' feeling when playing. Plus I kick ass in that game.

Everyone is angry with BF2 because it is a rock paper scissors game.  You always get the wrong thing at the wrong time.

Your a sniper, and an assault comes up to you.  You die now, you have a 0% chance of killing him - even though you could be 10x better than he is.  The sniper should have SOME chance of killing at close range.

You are a medic, now a tank comes to kill you.  You have no hope of killing it.  No hope, no fun.  Might aswell just stand in front of the tank now so you can die sooner and respawn as an AT.

So you choose AT, now you find an infantry.  He kicks your ass, because your kit is a POS against infantry.

There should be SOME overlap with the strengths of the kits.  The sniper shouldn't be unbeatable at long range, and a wimpy little girl at short.  It's specialty should be long range, but at short range, you should have a chance.

The assault shouldn't be a unbeatable against at other classes, and worthless against tanks.  Its should be good at killing infantry, and not so good at killing tanks, but alteast have a CHANCE of killing them.

The AT shouldn't be the only class that can kill tanks, but it can't kill anything else.  Its strength should be killing tanks, and still be almost as good as any other class at killing infantry.
The AT shouldn't be

Heck I've killed many assaults with the snipers pistol and an AT with a DAO-12 can eat infanty alive at close range. Heck You can snipe with the AT missile. Each class has a primary fouse, but that doesn't mean it can't go beyond that focus, like a sniper pistoling or knifing an assault at close range. The only people that complain like you are doing are the ones that can't use a kit to it's full potential.

BTW  too many TOW and AA launchers on a map make the class AT pointless and can hamper greatly the use of engineers and Spec Ops since it makes it so you can kill a vehicle with any kit. In fact everyone would be a damned medic if that happened.

Tanks have a huge blind spot and are huge targets anyways to aircraft.
Attack helicopters have very limited haelth and can easily be taken down with a .50 cal gun in under 10 seconds.
Planes force hasty decision and don't have much health, but namly only planes can really kill planes.
Now the blackhawk is the only thing I can say is over powered, the health of a tank and and damage APC's with it's gun...besides that other vehicles are easy enough to kill.

Ahaha, yeah right, you think you will be able to nail him 8 times with your pea shooter before he can hit you with half as many bullets from his mega bullet hose?  He can kill you way faster than you can knife him with his noob tube. You think that he is just going to stand still and let you hit him with your rocket when he shoots it at you? Take 3 steps to the side, and that slow rocket misses.  And I bet you think he is going to stand still and shoot at you so you can get in close with your shotgun.  Sorry kid, but the facts are that snipers and ATs are worthless at killing when not in the perfect circumstances.

Actually, kits in this game only have one purpose, which is supposted to add to the teamplay experience.  Which is why you always have the wrong thing at the wrong time.  There should be SOME overlap.

Tanks have no blind spot actually, that is if you go into third person view.  I have my First person view set to mouse button 3, and third person view set to mouse button 4.  So don't bother trying to sneak up on me, since I am always in third person and switch to first only to noob you.  Actually tanks can survive 2 jet bombs, so they are not at all a huge target for planes.

Those mines are never a problem for a tank since they explode so easily - so the engineer won't be any less used at all.  Anyway, you can't lure a tank 200 meters to the nearest flag to take it out, so AT kits will still be used.  And besides, you can't use AT to take out jets, so there is no harm in having AA stations at every flag.  The spec ops will still be used against tanks, as explained earlier, and because they are mostly used for C4 chucking to killl infantry/assets, and most people use Spec Ops for their extremely accurate bullet hoses anyway.

Sh4rkb1t3 wrote:

Nehby wrote:

Sh4rkb1t3 wrote:

Everyone is angry with BF2 because it is a rock paper scissors game.  You always get the wrong thing at the wrong time.

Your a sniper, and an assault comes up to you.  You die now, you have a 0% chance of killing him - even though you could be 10x better than he is.  The sniper should have SOME chance of killing at close range.

You are a medic, now a tank comes to kill you.  You have no hope of killing it.  No hope, no fun.  Might aswell just stand in front of the tank now so you can die sooner and respawn as an AT.

So you choose AT, now you find an infantry.  He kicks your ass, because your kit is a POS against infantry.

There should be SOME overlap with the strengths of the kits.  The sniper shouldn't be unbeatable at long range, and a wimpy little girl at short.  It's specialty should be long range, but at short range, you should have a chance.

The assault shouldn't be a unbeatable against at other classes, and worthless against tanks.  Its should be good at killing infantry, and not so good at killing tanks, but alteast have a CHANCE of killing them.

The AT shouldn't be the only class that can kill tanks, but it can't kill anything else.  Its strength should be killing tanks, and still be almost as good as any other class at killing infantry.
The AT shouldn't be

Heck I've killed many assaults with the snipers pistol and an AT with a DAO-12 can eat infanty alive at close range. Heck You can snipe with the AT missile. Each class has a primary fouse, but that doesn't mean it can't go beyond that focus, like a sniper pistoling or knifing an assault at close range. The only people that complain like you are doing are the ones that can't use a kit to it's full potential.

BTW  too many TOW and AA launchers on a map make the class AT pointless and can hamper greatly the use of engineers and Spec Ops since it makes it so you can kill a vehicle with any kit. In fact everyone would be a damned medic if that happened.

Tanks have a huge blind spot and are huge targets anyways to aircraft.
Attack helicopters have very limited haelth and can easily be taken down with a .50 cal gun in under 10 seconds.
Planes force hasty decision and don't have much health, but namly only planes can really kill planes.
Now the blackhawk is the only thing I can say is over powered, the health of a tank and and damage APC's with it's gun...besides that other vehicles are easy enough to kill.

Ahaha, yeah right, you think you will be able to nail him 8 times with your pea shooter before he can hit you with half as many bullets from his mega bullet hose?  He can kill you way faster than you can knife him with his noob tube. You think that he is just going to stand still and let you hit him with your rocket when he shoots it at you? Take 3 steps to the side, and that slow rocket misses.  And I bet you think he is going to stand still and shoot at you so you can get in close with your shotgun.  Sorry kid, but the facts are that snipers and ATs are worthless at killing when not in the perfect circumstances.

Actually, kits in this game only have one purpose, which is supposted to add to the teamplay experience.  Which is why you always have the wrong thing at the wrong time.  There should be SOME overlap.

Tanks have no blind spot actually, that is if you go into third person view.  I have my First person view set to mouse button 3, and third person view set to mouse button 4.  So don't bother trying to sneak up on me, since I am always in third person and switch to first only to noob you.  Actually tanks can survive 2 jet bombs, so they are not at all a huge target for planes.

Those mines are never a problem for a tank since they explode so easily - so the engineer won't be any less used at all.  Anyway, you can't lure a tank 200 meters to the nearest flag to take it out, so AT kits will still be used.  And besides, you can't use AT to take out jets, so there is no harm in having AA stations at every flag.  The spec ops will still be used against tanks, as explained earlier, and because they are mostly used for C4 chucking to killl infantry/assets, and most people use Spec Ops for their extremely accurate bullet hoses anyway.

you're an angry angry man sharky playing the wrong game
if you think infantry is weak against any vehicle (jets aside) then you are a fool
a lone infantry man with the right tools or just some intelligence is more deadly to a tank than a 1000lb of bombs
a squad of infantry can wipe out an enemies armoured assets faster than any thing else in the game
whatever made you bitter dont bother us with it - play counterstrike if you love it so much
hell the game in my sig is probably the game you want so play that when it comes out - but damnit stop the assinine bitching on one of the biggest bf2 fan sites

If you honestly think it's that hard to use the DAO-12, you haven't played with it that much. It has amazing range for a shotgun, making it quite formidable even against the Assault class. Look, you only have a global score in the 6k range, which means you haven't unlocked enough weapons to see the wide range of firepower available to you yet.

A sniper truly can be effective at closer range with his pistol, I've died too many times to realize this. Does that mean he has any chance at a few feet away? No. And if you honestly think this is the case, you're being asinine. AK-101 assault rifle against a pistol, the assault should win that battle 9 times out of 10 at least. The "overlap" you want is there, in that with practice you can win firefights with weapons you shouldn't normally be able to.

Are you a weak sniper or anti-tank class and have a noob tuber rushing you? Toss a nade at your feet and haul ass, sometimes you'll get the dumbass to hop right on your nade. Got a sniper in the hills and you have nothing but a weak anti-tank gun? Use cover, use teammates, advance on him if possible, or worst case scenario, just run the other way and keep yourself alive!  "Not every battle has to end with a corpse" is probably one of the key things I keep in mind as I play Battlefield 2.

Battlefield differs from traditional FPS because of the joint/combined military aspect, and as such, quick reflexes and a good eye are not the only keys to success. More often, it's the player's knowledge of the situation and his ability to make a quick tactical move that will win him fights. Got a chopper strafe-raping your base? Pretty simple, if you don't have a) a Stinger site  b) a support gun  c) anti-tank class   d) a TOW, HMMVV, or other vehicle, you should HIDE AND RUN, because you are nothing but easy pickings. If you expect a perfect balance in the sense that an infantry is as capable of battle as a tank, jet, or helicopter, you are in the WRONG game. Infantrymen can only succeed against vehicles with superior tactics and using weaponry around them to the fullest. Otherwise, you will die. Learn this, or learn to play a different FPS, because BF2 is NOT a Counter-Strike, and people like you better not turn it into one for me.

-Fletch

$kelet0r wrote:

Sh4rkb1t3 wrote:

Nehby wrote:

Heck I've killed many assaults with the snipers pistol and an AT with a DAO-12 can eat infanty alive at close range. Heck You can snipe with the AT missile. Each class has a primary fouse, but that doesn't mean it can't go beyond that focus, like a sniper pistoling or knifing an assault at close range. The only people that complain like you are doing are the ones that can't use a kit to it's full potential.

BTW  too many TOW and AA launchers on a map make the class AT pointless and can hamper greatly the use of engineers and Spec Ops since it makes it so you can kill a vehicle with any kit. In fact everyone would be a damned medic if that happened.

Tanks have a huge blind spot and are huge targets anyways to aircraft.
Attack helicopters have very limited haelth and can easily be taken down with a .50 cal gun in under 10 seconds.
Planes force hasty decision and don't have much health, but namly only planes can really kill planes.
Now the blackhawk is the only thing I can say is over powered, the health of a tank and and damage APC's with it's gun...besides that other vehicles are easy enough to kill.

Ahaha, yeah right, you think you will be able to nail him 8 times with your pea shooter before he can hit you with half as many bullets from his mega bullet hose?  He can kill you way faster than you can knife him with his noob tube. You think that he is just going to stand still and let you hit him with your rocket when he shoots it at you? Take 3 steps to the side, and that slow rocket misses.  And I bet you think he is going to stand still and shoot at you so you can get in close with your shotgun.  Sorry kid, but the facts are that snipers and ATs are worthless at killing when not in the perfect circumstances.

Actually, kits in this game only have one purpose, which is supposted to add to the teamplay experience.  Which is why you always have the wrong thing at the wrong time.  There should be SOME overlap.

Tanks have no blind spot actually, that is if you go into third person view.  I have my First person view set to mouse button 3, and third person view set to mouse button 4.  So don't bother trying to sneak up on me, since I am always in third person and switch to first only to noob you.  Actually tanks can survive 2 jet bombs, so they are not at all a huge target for planes.

Those mines are never a problem for a tank since they explode so easily - so the engineer won't be any less used at all.  Anyway, you can't lure a tank 200 meters to the nearest flag to take it out, so AT kits will still be used.  And besides, you can't use AT to take out jets, so there is no harm in having AA stations at every flag.  The spec ops will still be used against tanks, as explained earlier, and because they are mostly used for C4 chucking to killl infantry/assets, and most people use Spec Ops for their extremely accurate bullet hoses anyway.

you're an angry angry man sharky playing the wrong game
if you think infantry is weak against any vehicle (jets aside) then you are a fool
a lone infantry man with the right tools or just some intelligence is more deadly to a tank than a 1000lb of bombs
a squad of infantry can wipe out an enemies armoured assets faster than any thing else in the game
whatever made you bitter dont bother us with it - play counterstrike if you love it so much
hell the game in my sig is probably the game you want so play that when it comes out - but damnit stop the assinine bitching on one of the biggest bf2 fan sites

10 to 1 ratio.  How long would this take you to get on CS:S?  Mabey 3 years like I said.  On BF2, all it takes is to get in a tank.  If you can get a 10:1 ratio the first time you hop in a tank, hell even a 5:1 ratio, then you KNOW that tanks are WAY too strong.  Why exactly does this person deserve such an amazing ratio just for getting inside a tank?  It should just as much skill to use a tank as it does infantry to get the same ratio.  If you disagree, you are just a noob who needs an easy way to get a good ratio without practice.

Actually without C4 or missles you have no hope against tanks, litterally.  So what you said about having just intellegence is false.

The thing is, why should it take 5 people to kill someone without skill, and has possibly only played the game for 5 hours?  It doesn't make sense.  Its like playing golf, except if you roll the dice and get the highest number, you get to start 1 meter away from the hole.  So now some kid could easily beat out tiger woods just by getting a higher number than him from the start of the match.  How competitive would golf be then?  Golf would be all about luck (spawning closest to the tank), not skill.

Last edited by Sh4rkb1t3 (2006-01-25 14:14:58)

lol
the hole you dig just keeps getting deeper
tanks are the most powerful weapon on the ground - get over it
play cs if you're so enamoured with it - personally i've played it since 2000 and i will never go back after playing bf2, the level of fun is just so far beyond that of cs

i dont understand your problem tbh but then i understand that an infantry man is supposed to be weaker than 100 tonnes of metal

omgitsfletch wrote:

Again, if you read my post, you would see I've already answered the points you've made. People end up making such good ratios in vehicles because they are vastly more powerful than a simple soldier. If you can't accept this fact, you are just trying to form you're own delusional world where a grunt with an M16 is just as war-capable as an Apache, and there's no words in the world that can fix that point of view. Now, if every soldier played like I did, picked and choose his battles, and avoided tanks without proper equipment, tanks wouldn't do so well in Kills:Deaths. So perhaps rather than saying "Tanks score well, they are obviously overpowered." you should realize the truth of the matter is "Tanks are more powerful than soldiers, but some soldiers refuse to accept this, and they HAND TANKS GOOD SCORES".

Well guess what?  Yeah I can accept that a tank has can be stronger than a solider, but right now, the tank has no skill, and the solider has no chance of killing it.  This isn't real life remember - its a game.  If the tanks took skill, and infantry actually posed a small treat to them, then yeah, I'd be fine with them.  Kinda like in BF1942 minus the skill part.  In BF1942, you could take out tanks with grenades EASILY.  2 guys throwing grenades would take that thing down in seconds.  Now, you first have to die to the tank to get a chance of killing it (respawn as an AT).  This is why tanks are so overpowered.  Actually everyone knows that there is no way to kill a tank.  Its not like anyone who dies to a tank has never played this game before.  How dare you call ANYBODY a NOOB for dying to a tank.  YOU are the noob for killing them.

Sh4rkb1t3 wrote:

Nehby wrote:

Sh4rkb1t3 wrote:

Everyone is angry with BF2 because it is a rock paper scissors game.  You always get the wrong thing at the wrong time.

Your a sniper, and an assault comes up to you.  You die now, you have a 0% chance of killing him - even though you could be 10x better than he is.  The sniper should have SOME chance of killing at close range.

You are a medic, now a tank comes to kill you.  You have no hope of killing it.  No hope, no fun.  Might aswell just stand in front of the tank now so you can die sooner and respawn as an AT.

So you choose AT, now you find an infantry.  He kicks your ass, because your kit is a POS against infantry.

There should be SOME overlap with the strengths of the kits.  The sniper shouldn't be unbeatable at long range, and a wimpy little girl at short.  It's specialty should be long range, but at short range, you should have a chance.

The assault shouldn't be a unbeatable against at other classes, and worthless against tanks.  Its should be good at killing infantry, and not so good at killing tanks, but alteast have a CHANCE of killing them.

The AT shouldn't be the only class that can kill tanks, but it can't kill anything else.  Its strength should be killing tanks, and still be almost as good as any other class at killing infantry.
The AT shouldn't be

Heck I've killed many assaults with the snipers pistol and an AT with a DAO-12 can eat infanty alive at close range. Heck You can snipe with the AT missile. Each class has a primary fouse, but that doesn't mean it can't go beyond that focus, like a sniper pistoling or knifing an assault at close range. The only people that complain like you are doing are the ones that can't use a kit to it's full potential.

BTW  too many TOW and AA launchers on a map make the class AT pointless and can hamper greatly the use of engineers and Spec Ops since it makes it so you can kill a vehicle with any kit. In fact everyone would be a damned medic if that happened.

Tanks have a huge blind spot and are huge targets anyways to aircraft.
Attack helicopters have very limited haelth and can easily be taken down with a .50 cal gun in under 10 seconds.
Planes force hasty decision and don't have much health, but namly only planes can really kill planes.
Now the blackhawk is the only thing I can say is over powered, the health of a tank and and damage APC's with it's gun...besides that other vehicles are easy enough to kill.

Ahaha, yeah right, you think you will be able to nail him 8 times with your pea shooter before he can hit you with half as many bullets from his mega bullet hose?  He can kill you way faster than you can knife him with his noob tube. You think that he is just going to stand still and let you hit him with your rocket when he shoots it at you? Take 3 steps to the side, and that slow rocket misses.  And I bet you think he is going to stand still and shoot at you so you can get in close with your shotgun.  Sorry kid, but the facts are that snipers and ATs are worthless at killing when not in the perfect circumstances.

Actually, kits in this game only have one purpose, which is supposted to add to the teamplay experience.  Which is why you always have the wrong thing at the wrong time.  There should be SOME overlap.

Tanks have no blind spot actually, that is if you go into third person view.  I have my First person view set to mouse button 3, and third person view set to mouse button 4.  So don't bother trying to sneak up on me, since I am always in third person and switch to first only to noob you.  Actually tanks can survive 2 jet bombs, so they are not at all a huge target for planes.

Those mines are never a problem for a tank since they explode so easily - so the engineer won't be any less used at all.  Anyway, you can't lure a tank 200 meters to the nearest flag to take it out, so AT kits will still be used.  And besides, you can't use AT to take out jets, so there is no harm in having AA stations at every flag.  The spec ops will still be used against tanks, as explained earlier, and because they are mostly used for C4 chucking to killl infantry/assets, and most people use Spec Ops for their extremely accurate bullet hoses anyway.

Lol you must never have played any of the kits you complain about. Snipers are for sneaking about so you will often get the first shots in, and it doesn't take long to empty 8 bullets into a person. Besides if you could do jack as a sniper they would have been dead a long ways away.
(BTW knife kills arn't that hard, the key is SNEAKING. Running right in front an assault with only a knife or pistol out is beyond stupid)

AA turrets arn't the best vs planes, but they can and will eat helicopters alive, so the amount of turrets you want will make flying a heli many times harder, to the point it is worthless.

TOW turrets have a nice range on them......

One TV guided missile can doom a large, easily sighted tank, also the heli rockets do a job on them, and any bomber pilot worth his salt will either take you out completly or put you in the red.

They are addressing the mine issue with the next patch (I believe so), and also the points in not to have the mine seen aka hide it in grass etc so the tank driver would see it. Same goes for C4.

The key to the shotgun is to stay in cover till you get in range, then you can beat anyone else at close range unless they get a lucky face shot. Also AT missles are faster then you think, and are *gasp* guided, so the AT can adjust for your side step. (I do it all the time)

With tanks, yes if you're a medic you can do much, but you can do some: sight the tank, annoey it with gernades, and if possible lead a noob driver astray aka duke down a cliff and a noob will follow, possiblily getting the tank stuck. Also if you are fighting noobs it's easy to get 10 kills in a tank (i've seen some stupid people attack the tank with an assault rifle and promptly dying.

As you can see you have to use this thing called a brain, you might have heard of it. You have to think of tatics to deal with your current situation, if you just run and gun then well I can see why you have these stupid problems. I'm not the kid here, you are mister "I run head long into the enemy base as a sniper with my rifle equiped"

Sharkbite, yes, one can easily dominate with a tank, on 16 player city maps loaded with newbies.   It's easy to get 10:1 ratios on these maps because there won't be enough AT or Spec-Ops to take you out.  When at half health, retreat, repair, fight on.  However, have you tried to play on 50 plus player servers populated by top tier players?  You're lucky if you can still get a 3:1 ratio.  Look for the top city map servers and let's see how long you last in a tank.  And yes, I am a tanker, but also a ground-pounder.  I also use TOW's.  Most of my ground defense kills are from TOWs.  Aim the TOW prior-hand.  Exit and hide out waiting for the sound of armor and watching your mini-map.  Get on the TOW, already aimed, fire, easy kill.

OpsChief wrote:

Sh4rkb1t3 wrote:

MY HOLE?  No one here has ever adressed my arguements.
Yeah, but they don't have to be skill-less.  The Goliath in UT2004 was strong, but took skill.  Why can't the BF2 tank take skill?  Now why exactly does everyone think I am a CSS fanatic, and that every game should be a CSS clone?

no one addressed your arguments? I think we did - tanks aren't that tough to handle and jets/helo can be dealt with too. Maybe this will help:

Some of your arguments don't really need addressing because the outcome of your plan would mean stagnation.  Think of Kubra Dam and the valley North of the dam. If every flag station (totals 3-4 AT and 4-5 ADA) had dual AT/ADA then no vehicles would be able to move down there, no Air support. Now people will start dismounting and attacking on foot. Getting the picture? World War One begins all over again....short deadly dismounted infantry assaults where everyone dies. The time it takes to get across the valley 2-3 or more arty barrages will cut down hundreds of people. Then the hunkered-down tanks/APCs defending will rip hundreds more to pieces. Finally eveyone defending will spawn as support, snipe and medic... the attacker hit the minefields just as they are in range of the LMGs. 1000s and 1000s die at that point. Then people start quitting BF2 because AT/ADA whores are dominating the game.... 

BF2 is a dynamic, stressful and lethal environment.  People who specialize in Infatry maps will be raped when they leave the Karkand statfarm and see what Air/Armor/Mech cooperation can do on faster maps.

Your ideas have some merit but the dual at/ada at all flags is overcompensation.

Overcompensation?  One AT station per flag is being CONSERVATIVE.  If I had it my way, there should be 2 AT stations.  Are the flags that have 1 AT station already impossible to capture?  No, so this won't be any different.  Also, the first thing the tank shoots down when he gets to a flag is the AT station, so they won't exactly be a very big help anyway.

This will allow for more teamwork - huge raids on bases with many vehicles.  Could you imagine how intense and cinematic that would be?  You and about 20 other guys all attacking a base all at once?  Struggling to push back the enemy as far as possible until you get to the flag?  THIS is how BF2 should be.  Right now, you just drive over to the base, kill anyone near it, then cap it without effort.  its almost relaxing to sit around in the same spot by yourself for 30 seconds to capture the base.

As for the spawn points, you should be able to choose exactly where you want to spawn within ~50 meters of the flag.  No more spawn camping, because there are only about 3-4 different places you can spawn near a flag.

Last edited by Sh4rkb1t3 (2006-01-25 18:10:30)

a whore by any other name is still a whore - in Bf2 people who choose to specialize are whores for some reason IDK why*. It kinda myopic if you ask me.


*actually I do know why but it sounded funnier the other way....