this guys says what 95% of us are thinking.
and posting something like this on the internet takes guts.
bravo for free speech and common sense.
and posting something like this on the internet takes guts.
bravo for free speech and common sense.
I like this guy.
He speaks the truth and doesn't care who hears him.
He speaks the truth and doesn't care who hears him.
Funny when someone from the US says it....like me for example, we are islamaphobes according to some people on this forum.superfly_cox wrote:
this guys says what 95% of us are thinking.
and posting something like this on the internet takes guts.
bravo for free speech and common sense.
i hope listening to something like this can help some of you. racism and intolerance is a terrible thing. the OP videos are sick. he rambles minute after minute talking only about the acts of a small percentage of muslims but then generalizes about all of them. He is shamefully ethnocentric unless he has another one of these videos highlighting the "worst" people of every culture. But he probably doesnt because you know this guy just has a thing against muslims.=OBS= EstebanRey wrote:
I love to see this guy debate with Galloway
You really shouldnt bother trying to judge other cultures, read this: http://www.msu.edu/~dudhoria/ATL135/nac1.htm
Not necessarily true; at all... criticism (cultural, religious, philosophic, humorous, etc) does not necessarily equal racism, ethnocentrism, oppression, intolerance, ignorance, etc.Marinejuana wrote:
i hope listening to something like this can help some of you. racism and intolerance is a terrible thing. the OP videos are sick. he rambles minute after minute talking only about the acts of a small percentage of Muslims but then generalizes about all of them. He is shamefully ethnocentric unless he has another one of these videos highlighting the "worst" people of every culture. But he probably doesn't because you know this guy just has a thing against Muslims.=OBS= EstebanRey wrote:
I love to see this guy debate with Galloway
You really shouldn't bother trying to judge other cultures, read this: http://www.msu.edu/~dudhoria/ATL135/nac1.htm
A culture/religion that is rigid; dogmatic; will struggle to cope with change in an ever changing world. Not all dogmatic religious practices need to be treated with kid gloves and/or with equally ignorant blind acceptance. The inertia of change is slow in religious ideals (cultural ideals) rooted in mythical concepts such as revelation of transcendence to so-called prophets of God.
And more or less, many societies, try to construct ethical standards (laws, ways of life, memes, etc) with respect to the minority circumstance. Whether protecting the minority from action of the majority or protecting the majority from the action of the minority. The majority/minority is not injured by social criticism. It is social criticism to call into question the validity of making Muslim women wear a burka (and/or a veil over the face). What is ethnocentric or racist about questioning the validity of this religious (cultural) practice? Nothing. Many feel this is equally as degrading as being over exposed (sexually suggestive dressing). Both social practices are open to criticism (too much covering of nature, & then not enough).
Last edited by topal63 (2007-05-30 12:37:27)
please, if you can contradict me, do it. and do it now. Wikipedia is the easiest way to link information to those who obviously have none, such as yourself. And considering if you READ it they denote which information is NOT 100 percent cited or otherwise. So please, shut up and post a source of your own, otherwise stfu. You have contributed nothing here.coke wrote:
Why is it that some people think that to back up their arguement all they have to do is post a link to wikipedia, as though everything written there is totally unbiased and 100% accurate...golgoj4 wrote:
Better to be a liberal hippy who can see the truth as opposed to being a dipshit conservative who doesn't know his ass from a hole in the ground. Seriously, is the best people can come up with these days 'you damn liberal' Liberals are the ones who have kept this country moving forward. Not to mention the 'liberal' agitators that fought for things like an equal footing for immigrants, women, and minorities. Just because you obviously buy into whats presented to you in the media instead of reading and understanding for your fracking self makes you the ignorant one. Also, you really shouldn't confuse any democrat cept maybe Kucinich with a liberal. They are merely the other party complicit in completely ignoring the American People.mtb0minime wrote:
Well I don't plan on visiting the middle east any time soon, and I have to base my opinion on what I've seen and heard, though it may not be as much as you apparently have. But around here, seems like one group is trying to take steps forward when another is holding back and preventing progress.
And I'd also like to add that by telling me I'm wrong only shows your ignorance. It's not a matter of right and wrong, it's a matter of opinion. Just because I don't agree with you doesn't mean either of us are right or wrong. So please, take your liberal hippy shit elsewhere and respect other people's beliefs.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberals#L … _democracy
Do some reading and come back and talk to us.
This guy's my hero. Seriously.
Many of the users that are agreeing with him are the same people that epitomize everything he is complaining about.
Last edited by Cerpin_Taxt (2007-05-30 15:25:27)
I thought he came across as pretty immature to be honest. He also makes judgments about millions of Muslims based purely on his perception of the worst elements of Islam ...not an informed or intelligent way of looking at things. I'd like to see the guy in a debate and not just in a unilateral rant to see how he does.
You are precisely the kind of person i was talking about. You truely live in the past and cant get over things done on people you never knew by people you never knew. I hold NO identity from my predecessors. I am not them. Get a grip on yourself and stop living in the past. Get over it!Marinejuana wrote:
slavery still exists, i went on to say that in the post u didnt read but decided to reply to. did u also not watch the video but just assumed ud agree?Vilham wrote:
I started reading your second paragraph. I think he is someone who isnt living in the past. Which seems to me something a hell of a lot of people do these days. Yes there was slavery. HUNDREDS of years ago, by people who arent me. I hold NO responsibility for other peoples actions.
but even if slavery didnt exist, its almost sociopathic to beg that we forget it and completely forgive everyone. Pummel other cultures for a handful of generations and then once u have them in the strangler hold pass it on to the a new generation that at some point becomes not responsible? sorry but u do not understand global politics at all. history is continuous and your identitity, whether u like it or not, is a continuation of your predecessors. whether or not u choose to take responsibility for who you are, realize that the same forces that created you had many other impacts on the world. and even if u feel like slavery has nothing to do with you today, believe me, it still has a ton to do with why so many blacks live in slums in the US, and british colonialism has a lot to do with why u have struggling (violent?) muslims in the UK.
Do you think its fair that your granddads actions are still fucking them over but that your grandads actions should have no effect on you (other than inhereting enormous capital as a nation)? But maybe u dont care about fairness.
We have little to no struggling Muslims. Get your facts correct please.
My god! "fairness" LIFE ISNT FAIR. Its people who complain about things being unfair that stop society progressing.
As to your reply to the guy above. Its only America that doesnt support the poor. Most of European countries have mass welfare. The UK has so much welfare it takes the piss. Stop trying to use things that hold true in America that dont hold true in other places.
Last edited by Vilham (2007-05-30 17:25:25)
There was an interview with the Conservative leader, David Cameron on TV the other day and he was asked by two black women if we should formally apologise for the slave trade and his response was so good he even changed their minds. He basically made the point that he can’t say sorry for something that he did not do and that he can only apologise for things he had direct control over. He also made the good point that if the Prime Minister were to say sorry it could never be sincere for the reasons above and would actually be insulting to the people you are apologising to. It would be like the embarrassing “sorry” you get from parents when their kids have done something wrong, everyone just feels awkward. Cameron is a cock the rest of the time by the way…Marinejuana wrote:
slavery still exists, I went on to say that in the post u didn’t read but decided to reply to. did u also not watch the video but just assumed ud agree?
but even if slavery didnt exist, its almost sociopathic to beg that we forget it and completely forgive everyone. Pummel other cultures for a handful of generations and then once u have them in the strangler hold pass it on to the a new generation that at some point becomes not responsible? sorry but u do not understand global politics at all. history is continuous and your identitity, whether u like it or not, is a continuation of your predecessors. whether or not u choose to take responsibility for who you are, realize that the same forces that created you had many other impacts on the world. and even if u feel like slavery has nothing to do with you today, believe me, it still has a ton to do with why so many blacks live in slums in the US, and british colonialism has a lot to do with why u have struggling (violent?) muslims in the UK.
Do you think its fair that your granddads actions are still fucking them over but that your grandads actions should have no effect on you (other than inheriting enormous capital as a nation)? But maybe u don’t care about fairness.
Marinejuana, you seem to me like the PC, high horse type who thinks the whole World could be perfect but unfortunately negates reality which leads to contradicting arguments. If I were to say “I hate all black” people you would, quite rightly, give me a lecture on how you cannot judge people for the way they are born, they can’t help it after all. And yet, you are condoning the hate of white people because of the slave trade??? I can’t help being born white anymore than Martin Luther King could help being born black but you think that single fact should allow others to judge me negatively.
This is what I hate about the PC brigade and covers the point this guy in the video is making. Political Correctness isn’t about fairness or equality it is about people getting into groups and demanding rights over the others; it is also about white guilt. This guilt is exactly what Marinejuana wants us to keep and believes we deserve as “evil white people” and leads to a state of mind whereby whites tend to go out of their way to accommodate ethnic minorities and feel that when dealing with people of other cultures we are nervous about upsetting them. The sad thing is most of the people we are trying not to offend couldn’t care less what we do just so long as it is not a pro-active attempt to insult them. It’s white people like Marinejuana who say you can’t put a Christmas tree up in a shopping centre because you may offend Muslims, and not the Muslims themselves.
I also hate the way political correctness deems anyone who may have a view on another culture as racist, no matter how factually correct it is (but again only whites can be racists). I sorry Marinejuana but this guy does not say anything that racist in this video despite how much you try to say he is. He praises Muslims as well as criticises them and thus can not be racist by definition. 50 years ago you had to hate the entire population of a race to be deemed racist but nowadays the definition seems to have changed to any statement about another culture or individual of another culture, unless is it highly positive. Saying black people have bigger lips in general than white people is a statement of fact and does not degrade anyone but I bet any white person reading that would get a nervous feeling doing so and this is exactly what political correctness has done to our society. Conversely if I said black people are better dancers I probably wouldn’t be met with any shock.
In response to whether the slave trade is why black people live in slums nowadays, that is a highly debateable and philosophical argument and shouldn’t be taken at face value. I’m not saying it had no effect but is it not possible that some of the black people in those slums are just lazy? Is it not also worth saying that a slum in America is still better than a slum in Africa? Again, I’ll be called a racist now for even posing those questions but hey I can take that ignorant abuse just as much as the ignorant abuse of real racism. On a TV special about gangs in London, there were some black kids being interviewed and they said they reason they caused trouble was because the government don’t give them money. “GIVE” them money; they don’t want to earn it by getting a good job or anything they just want it given to them.
Please, please don’t take the above statement as me saying black people are lazy, I am not saying that but I am saying there are lazy people of all races and some choose to blame their race instead of their lethargy for their lack of life success.
u need to realize the extent of the crimes commited by the West against the rest of the world TODAY (Vilham). Western foreign policy may be no worse than any other place at heart, the difference is that we ACT on our beliefs about the world on the greatest scale. We mobilize vast international militaries that ultimately kill without discrimination. It is an important yet uneccesary detail to bring up our thousand years or more of history in this.
War destroys infrastructure, in turn destroying people. Did you know over a hundered thousand women and children were killed by the damage we did to Iraqi water supplies in the 90's? You never hear a warmongering conservative talk about that! LOL That is worse than anything Saddam Hussein ever did. When our crimes so vastly outweigh any other societies, you can never expect the world to excuse our behavior. You should expect to get suicide bombed. Do you think those disenfranchised young men have anything better to do with their life than blow up a few Americans? Not if their family is dead.
You were all raised with a highly patriotic education system to the extent that you have no ability to evaluate or criticize your own culture. Our culture does many heinous and almost unheard of things, but because you are so in love with America and the status quo, you dont even recognize whent he status quo borders on criminal. You realize we imprison more people in the United States than ANY other country in the world? Our crime rates are much lower than a lot of places and yet we throw more people in prison than China and Russia. And more than 50% of these people are black or latino. Victimization surveys suggest that blacks and latinos victimize at VERY similar rates to the rest of the population, but we have things like mandatory minimum sentencing and discrepencies between the punishments for crack and cocaine that have lead to one of the largest racist prison epidemic in Western history (unless you are going to count holocausts as prison epidemics, in which case we are just vying between hitler, some africans, and some southeast asians). And this is TODAY.
How can you all act so self assured about the way our country treats people? Did you know that while Germany was executing jews, we rounded up all the Japanese in the Pacific northwest in internment (concentration) camps? We didn't actually kill them though, but people BORN ON US SOIL were imprisoned with NO DUE PROCESS AT ALL for years because we are racist.
But now you will tell me not to live in the past. I bet youd even call me bringing up the 90's living in the past. Sorry if you guys dont like the indications of history, but if your culture commited a crime, no matter how much ud like to absolve responsibility, YOU WILL BE HELD ACCOUNTABLE BECAUSE PEOPLE ARE STILL SUFFERING AND THERE IS NOBODY ELSE TO BLAME.
What if a rapist told a judge "Dude, stop living in the past, I raped her like ten years ago!" The judge would say "there is no statute of limitations on rape, sicko, yer going to jail." Should there be a statute of limitations on dropping bombs on people's houses? Only if you hold extreme double standards.
Seriously, climb out of your little ted kazinsky holes and face the rest of the world. Remember how many Germans were coerced into willingly letting minorities be slaughtered. We are obviously no more capable of evaluating ourselves than they were.
War destroys infrastructure, in turn destroying people. Did you know over a hundered thousand women and children were killed by the damage we did to Iraqi water supplies in the 90's? You never hear a warmongering conservative talk about that! LOL That is worse than anything Saddam Hussein ever did. When our crimes so vastly outweigh any other societies, you can never expect the world to excuse our behavior. You should expect to get suicide bombed. Do you think those disenfranchised young men have anything better to do with their life than blow up a few Americans? Not if their family is dead.
And yet you are all so profoundly miseducated as to think that the world is on equal footing but that some abstract and unwarranted "white guilt" plagues us. White guilt, if thats what you call it, has to do with stealing murdering, killing, and enslaving others. ITS OK TO FEEL GUILTY ABOUT THAT. Its sociopathic not to.=OBS= EstebanRey wrote:
Political Correctness isn’t about fairness or equality it is about people getting into groups and demanding rights over the others; it is also about white guilt. This guilt is exactly what Marinejuana wants us to keep and believes we deserve as “evil white people” and leads to a state of mind whereby whites tend to go out of their way to accommodate ethnic minorities and feel that when dealing with people of other cultures we are nervous about upsetting them.
You were all raised with a highly patriotic education system to the extent that you have no ability to evaluate or criticize your own culture. Our culture does many heinous and almost unheard of things, but because you are so in love with America and the status quo, you dont even recognize whent he status quo borders on criminal. You realize we imprison more people in the United States than ANY other country in the world? Our crime rates are much lower than a lot of places and yet we throw more people in prison than China and Russia. And more than 50% of these people are black or latino. Victimization surveys suggest that blacks and latinos victimize at VERY similar rates to the rest of the population, but we have things like mandatory minimum sentencing and discrepencies between the punishments for crack and cocaine that have lead to one of the largest racist prison epidemic in Western history (unless you are going to count holocausts as prison epidemics, in which case we are just vying between hitler, some africans, and some southeast asians). And this is TODAY.
How can you all act so self assured about the way our country treats people? Did you know that while Germany was executing jews, we rounded up all the Japanese in the Pacific northwest in internment (concentration) camps? We didn't actually kill them though, but people BORN ON US SOIL were imprisoned with NO DUE PROCESS AT ALL for years because we are racist.
But now you will tell me not to live in the past. I bet youd even call me bringing up the 90's living in the past. Sorry if you guys dont like the indications of history, but if your culture commited a crime, no matter how much ud like to absolve responsibility, YOU WILL BE HELD ACCOUNTABLE BECAUSE PEOPLE ARE STILL SUFFERING AND THERE IS NOBODY ELSE TO BLAME.
What if a rapist told a judge "Dude, stop living in the past, I raped her like ten years ago!" The judge would say "there is no statute of limitations on rape, sicko, yer going to jail." Should there be a statute of limitations on dropping bombs on people's houses? Only if you hold extreme double standards.
Seriously, climb out of your little ted kazinsky holes and face the rest of the world. Remember how many Germans were coerced into willingly letting minorities be slaughtered. We are obviously no more capable of evaluating ourselves than they were.
=OBS= EstebanRey wrote:
He praises Muslims as well as criticises them and thus can not be racist by definition.
Have a nice day at school kids!Marinejuana wrote:
his video goes back and forth between him referring to muslims like a large unified group, and then him discussing the acts of particular individuals within that group (ie, stereotyping and racism). The fact that he additionally is trying to impose his moral beliefs on a distant culture is the primary instance of ethnocentricity.
Last edited by Marinejuana (2007-05-31 08:02:15)
I agree with everything this guy has said, especially the religion bits. We need to get our heads out of our asses.
Side rant:
Also, PC and quotas are just another form of racism and a double standard, you just don't realize it.
For example, it is absolutely fine to have a Black Student Union, but a Caucasian Student Union would be clearly white supremacist. Not to mention the fact of how minorities get in easier to college than white students. I find that to be a blatant disregard for respect of those minorities. It is basically saying that we don't think you're as smart, but you can get in anyway. That is racism. If someone is capable, let them in, but don't do it based on skin color.
Edit: Whether we agree with what he says or not, we must certainly all agree he is an incredible public speaker.
Side rant:
Also, PC and quotas are just another form of racism and a double standard, you just don't realize it.
For example, it is absolutely fine to have a Black Student Union, but a Caucasian Student Union would be clearly white supremacist. Not to mention the fact of how minorities get in easier to college than white students. I find that to be a blatant disregard for respect of those minorities. It is basically saying that we don't think you're as smart, but you can get in anyway. That is racism. If someone is capable, let them in, but don't do it based on skin color.
Edit: Whether we agree with what he says or not, we must certainly all agree he is an incredible public speaker.
Last edited by heggs (2007-05-31 09:44:00)
Remember Me As A Time Of Day
I have one thing to say to you... WAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH go cry somewhere else. Life isn't fair.Marinejuana wrote:
u need to.......kids!