i agree with you on thisSchwarzelungen wrote:
at least he/she has the guts to be him/herself
its not hurting you all, let it go
Seriously, if his class voted him prom queen, well, he might as well get it. It might be different if it were Miss America.Ninja_Monkey wrote:
i agree with you on thisSchwarzelungen wrote:
at least he/she has the guts to be him/herself
its not hurting you all, let it go
Congrats to that guy--err girl. And I gotta say, whoever did his operation must be pretty fuckin good! Another thing to put on that doctor's resume: "50 years of med school, blah blah, more accolades, blah blah, and oh yeah I MADE A DUDE A PROM QUEEN!"
with a rocksurgeon_bond wrote:
id hit itjord wrote:
Looked at the pics.
Fair nice.
Jon: Going to have to agree with you on that.jonsimon wrote:
Nature doesnt intend anything.Stingray24 wrote:
If nature intended them to be a woman, they'd be a woman. We have an intellect and a will and make choices in matters like this.Hunter/Jumper wrote:
Some people are dealt strange hands in life. it must be tuff. I have seen men that nature surely intended to be woman and visa versa. I have seen a Doe with antlers. Nature makes some mistakes once in a while.
Life is tuff enough, these people have there work cut out for them
Sting: Could argue that everything a human does is what is 'intended' by nature, unless you can somehow suggest that we're above it all.
But again, bombarding your body with chemicals and engaging in acts of voluntary self-mutilation isn't going to alter your sex in any manner but legally and roughly visually. Even if science was advanced enough to get a former guy pregnant, I'd still be creeped out by the prospect.
Last edited by unnamednewbie13 (2007-05-13 20:16:23)
Good man, and I hope you stick to your principles. Mainly by never having any corrective surgery or medical intervention of any kind. If nature intended you to not have heart defects, to spontaneously begin breathing on your own after drowning or being electrocuted, not break bones, not have bad eyesight, not have diabetes or generally not suffer from any malady or injury currently covered by medical science, then nature would have made you so.Stingray24 wrote:
If nature intended them to be a woman, they'd be a woman. We have an intellect and a will and make choices in matters like this.
Yes, there's an element of choice here, but the only difference between this and having routine plastic surgery (which is far more common) is that those having routine plastic surgery aren't required to go through years of counselling and psychological testing before they're allowed to have the procedure performed. This is not a decision that comes to a conclusion lightly. Yes, I have met people who claim to be transgender but are just truthfully mentally troubled and unhappy with themselves more than their actual physical bodies, believing a change in physical appearance will make them happy. Which is really no different than a woman deciding that bigger boobs will make her happier, but I don't hear anyone calling for them to be locked up or declared mentally incompetent. There's that difference again though; people who don't make it through the screening for gender-reassignment surgery do not get the procedure. Meanwhile, anyone with the money for it can get their breasts enlarged to a ludiucrous degree, have botulinium toxin injected into their faces, fat vacuumed out of their bodies and all manner of body-altering surgery without anyone giving them a second thought.
transgender is not the same as transvestite.mtb0minime wrote:
Congrats to that guy--err girl. And I gotta say, whoever did his operation must be pretty fuckin good! Another thing to put on that doctor's resume: "50 years of med school, blah blah, more accolades, blah blah, and oh yeah I MADE A DUDE A PROM QUEEN!"
transgender just means he feels more like a woman. he has all his manly bits...just...feels like umm...a woman in a mans body ....for lack of a better analogy
it would be the first transgender/thing you see in a movie. in fact, in the 70's, james Bond had some sexy time with a ex-guy. 007 didnt turn gay in his movie after all.
transgender/thing = hw was a guy before, than got surgery to because a full woman. im just too lazy to look up for the right word
transgender/thing = hw was a guy before, than got surgery to because a full woman. im just too lazy to look up for the right word
Last edited by PvtStPoK (2007-05-13 21:24:54)
Well unfortunately for the guy, he has XY genes, not XX. Not matter what he does physically he cant change that. He is a guy who wants to be a girl, nothing more, nothing less.HunterOfSkulls wrote:
Good man, and I hope you stick to your principles. Mainly by never having any corrective surgery or medical intervention of any kind. If nature intended you to not have heart defects, to spontaneously begin breathing on your own after drowning or being electrocuted, not break bones, not have bad eyesight, not have diabetes or generally not suffer from any malady or injury currently covered by medical science, then nature would have made you so.Stingray24 wrote:
If nature intended them to be a woman, they'd be a woman. We have an intellect and a will and make choices in matters like this.
Yes, there's an element of choice here, but the only difference between this and having routine plastic surgery (which is far more common) is that those having routine plastic surgery aren't required to go through years of counselling and psychological testing before they're allowed to have the procedure performed. This is not a decision that comes to a conclusion lightly. Yes, I have met people who claim to be transgender but are just truthfully mentally troubled and unhappy with themselves more than their actual physical bodies, believing a change in physical appearance will make them happy. Which is really no different than a woman deciding that bigger boobs will make her happier, but I don't hear anyone calling for them to be locked up or declared mentally incompetent. There's that difference again though; people who don't make it through the screening for gender-reassignment surgery do not get the procedure. Meanwhile, anyone with the money for it can get their breasts enlarged to a ludiucrous degree, have botulinium toxin injected into their faces, fat vacuumed out of their bodies and all manner of body-altering surgery without anyone giving them a second thought.
Last edited by Vilham (2007-05-13 21:26:32)
Genes also determine if we have a predisposition to heart disease, cancer, neurological problems, et cetera. I sincerely doubt that if your heart decided to vapor-lock on you that you'd say "Genetics! This is meant to be!" instead of "Fuck, call 911!". As far as genetics are concerned, you're just a mortal who doesn't want to be mortal, nothing more, nothing less. But applying that standard to you would be inhuman and cruel, the rationale of the eugenicist, saying that your faulty genes make you unworthy of society's concern or help. That's not how we do things in a humane society. We don't tell you, "Sorry, this is what your genes have decided" or "You shouldn't have eaten so much bacon, no CPR for you".Vilham wrote:
Well unfortunately for the guy, he has XY genes, not XX. Not matter what he does physically he cant change that. He is a guy who wants to be a girl, nothing more, nothing less.
You are half correct though. This is a guy who wants to be a girl. So? Big fucking deal. Seems like most of the outrage here is because she actually has the guts to be open about it instead of cowering in the dark somewhere. That must really piss some folks off.
(note to self, it's "Edit" not "Quote")
Last edited by HunterOfSkulls (2007-05-13 21:45:11)
No, I'm from California and I can agree with the original statement. Really it's only the coast from San Fransisco to the Mexican border that's so messed up. You get into eastern California or the far north and the state becomes normal, but the majority of the people live along the coast line south of SF and have managed to ruin it for the sane people in the rest of the state.Schwarzelungen wrote:
i find alot of these comments offensive/ ignorant.Ender2309 wrote:
i find that offensive.D6717C wrote:
This is yet one more reason why California needs to somehow be geologically de-attatched from North America and made its only little liberal country for retards.
oh well...thats what i get for being here.
Did you know that CA's state constitution is larger than all the other states combined? Something really messed up about that.
... Thats an under-statement.CruZ4dR wrote:
Sounds gay.
Then how'd she get those tits?Schwarzelungen wrote:
transgender is not the same as transvestite.mtb0minime wrote:
Congrats to that guy--err girl. And I gotta say, whoever did his operation must be pretty fuckin good! Another thing to put on that doctor's resume: "50 years of med school, blah blah, more accolades, blah blah, and oh yeah I MADE A DUDE A PROM QUEEN!"
transgender just means he feels more like a woman. he has all his manly bits...just...feels like umm...a woman in a mans body ....for lack of a better analogy
Transgender is someone who actually goes through with the operation. Until that happens, a guy who feels like a woman on the inside is just a guy who feels like a woman on the inside.
I agree.Ender2309 wrote:
i find that offensive.D6717C wrote:
This is yet one more reason why California needs to somehow be geologically de-attatched from North America and made its only little liberal country for retards.
California is Cool.
I also saw that on the news... ew...
I agree. CA is just ahead of the times. I think all places on the coasts are.=NHB=Shadow wrote:
I agree.Ender2309 wrote:
i find that offensive.D6717C wrote:
This is yet one more reason why California needs to somehow be geologically de-attatched from North America and made its only little liberal country for retards.
California is Cool.
I also saw that on the news... ew...
Heh, I have some cousins who live in alabama and when I visit them it's like going back in time. Everything is like the 90s. They listen to older music, and heck, they finally discovered the magic of the internet!! My cousins are all into myspace now and I'm like... uhh old news (and it sucks btw).
the_mac wrote
you fail
nice constructive criticism...Feel free to leave whenever you care to.
you fail
Last edited by Schwarzelungen (2007-05-13 23:07:17)
Unfortunately, my dear man, psychology isn't as deeply-rooted a field as some of the more physically-oriented medical practices (though, of course, new ideas are occasionally introduced). Ask any honest psychologist, and they'll probably mention something along the lines of their old professors expounding on textbook virtues as effective firestarters within at least ten years from course completion. Why should modern opinion be any different?HunterOfSkulls wrote:
Good man, and I hope you stick to your principles. Mainly by never having any corrective surgery or medical intervention of any kind. If nature intended you to not have heart defects, to spontaneously begin breathing on your own after drowning or being electrocuted, not break bones, not have bad eyesight, not have diabetes or generally not suffer from any malady or injury currently covered by medical science, then nature would have made you so.Stingray24 wrote:
If nature intended them to be a woman, they'd be a woman. We have an intellect and a will and make choices in matters like this.
Yes, there's an element of choice here, but the only difference between this and having routine plastic surgery (which is far more common) is that those having routine plastic surgery aren't required to go through years of counselling and psychological testing before they're allowed to have the procedure performed. This is not a decision that comes to a conclusion lightly. Yes, I have met people who claim to be transgender but are just truthfully mentally troubled and unhappy with themselves more than their actual physical bodies, believing a change in physical appearance will make them happy. Which is really no different than a woman deciding that bigger boobs will make her happier, but I don't hear anyone calling for them to be locked up or declared mentally incompetent. There's that difference again though; people who don't make it through the screening for gender-reassignment surgery do not get the procedure. Meanwhile, anyone with the money for it can get their breasts enlarged to a ludiucrous degree, have botulinium toxin injected into their faces, fat vacuumed out of their bodies and all manner of body-altering surgery without anyone giving them a second thought.
(In fact, the fuzziness of this science is one of the primary reasons why students are turned off of the subject early on.)
Last edited by unnamednewbie13 (2007-05-13 23:20:19)
My point isn't so much the psychological testing involved by itself, but the fact that society has a bit of a double-standard regarding elective surgery. Unfortunately that standard is judged according to "ick factor" and not anything even remotely logical. As I said, nobody talks about having those who undergo common plastic surgery procedures, procedures which can be just as drastic or more so than gender reassignment, committed to mental institutions. It extends to other forms of physical modification, ie. the model with breast implants is considered attractive, the model with facial and large-gauge ear piercings and tattoos is "freakish" and engaged in "self-mutilation" even though her body modifications are about as invasive as getting a few stitches for a bad cut. It's a really fucked-up and shitty standard to apply to other people just trying to be more comfortable in their own skin.unnamednewbie13 wrote:
Unfortunately, my dear man, psychology isn't as deeply-rooted a field as some of the more physically-oriented medical practices (though, of course, new ideas are occasionally introduced). Ask any honest psychologist, and they'll probably mention something along the lines of their old professors expounding on textbook virtues as effective firestarters within at least ten years from course completion. Why should modern opinion be any different?
(In fact, the fuzziness of this science is one of the primary reasons why students are turned off of the subject early on.)
seconded. It's all about what is "commonly" accepted, and who believes such bullshit ? Think for yourself, and don't be so judgemental about other people's choices, especially if they don't hurt you.HunterOfSkulls wrote:
My point isn't so much the psychological testing involved by itself, but the fact that society has a bit of a double-standard regarding elective surgery. Unfortunately that standard is judged according to "ick factor" and not anything even remotely logical. As I said, nobody talks about having those who undergo common plastic surgery procedures, procedures which can be just as drastic or more so than gender reassignment, committed to mental institutions. It extends to other forms of physical modification, ie. the model with breast implants is considered attractive, the model with facial and large-gauge ear piercings and tattoos is "freakish" and engaged in "self-mutilation" even though her body modifications are about as invasive as getting a few stitches for a bad cut. It's a really fucked-up and shitty standard to apply to other people just trying to be more comfortable in their own skin.unnamednewbie13 wrote:
Unfortunately, my dear man, psychology isn't as deeply-rooted a field as some of the more physically-oriented medical practices (though, of course, new ideas are occasionally introduced). Ask any honest psychologist, and they'll probably mention something along the lines of their old professors expounding on textbook virtues as effective firestarters within at least ten years from course completion. Why should modern opinion be any different?
(In fact, the fuzziness of this science is one of the primary reasons why students are turned off of the subject early on.)
if the guy had the guts to stand up for what he feels, more power to him.
Isn't that what America is supposed to be about ?
Supposedly.B.Schuss wrote:
seconded. It's all about what is "commonly" accepted, and who believes such bullshit ? Think for yourself, and don't be so judgemental about other people's choices, especially if they don't hurt you.
if the guy had the guts to stand up for what he feels, more power to him.
Isn't that what America is supposed to be about ?
I can't really explain why some people have such a viscerally violent reaction to transgender folks, myself. I can tell you that they've been the victims of some of the most horrific murders I've ever heard of. What forensic investigators refer to as an "overkill" murder; the victim isn't just killed but destroyed, violently mutilated as if the killer is trying to completely erase them. Me, I can't say I'd be brave enough to put myself at a risk like that so I damn well can't knock someone who does.
read, my friend...mtb0minime wrote:
Then how'd she get those tits?Schwarzelungen wrote:
transgender is not the same as transvestite.mtb0minime wrote:
Congrats to that guy--err girl. And I gotta say, whoever did his operation must be pretty fuckin good! Another thing to put on that doctor's resume: "50 years of med school, blah blah, more accolades, blah blah, and oh yeah I MADE A DUDE A PROM QUEEN!"
transgender just means he feels more like a woman. he has all his manly bits...just...feels like umm...a woman in a mans body ....for lack of a better analogy
Transgender is someone who actually goes through with the operation. Until that happens, a guy who feels like a woman on the inside is just a guy who feels like a woman on the inside.
taken from this site. thanks.Transgender
An umbrella term referring to anyone who's behavior, thoughts, or traits differ from the societal expectations for their sex. This group includes cross-dressers, transsexuals, intersexuals, gay men, lesbian women, and bisexuals.
http://www.genderpsychology.org/transse … ssary.html
its all confusing and interwoven
youre thinking transexual...which is the the changing of ones anatomy.
from same site.
Transsexualism
A person born of one biological sex who seeks to become the other sex. This term orginally was amental illness diagnosis but was dropped in favor of "gender identity disorder." The term is still used in psychological research where it only refers to those persons who have undergone SRS.
Last edited by Schwarzelungen (2007-05-14 13:07:42)
Main Entry: queen
Pronunciation: 'kwEn
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English quene, from Old English cwEn woman, wife, queen; akin to Gothic qens wife, Greek gynE woman, Sanskrit jani
1 a : the wife or widow of a king b : the wife or widow of a tribal chief
2 a : a female monarch b : a female chieftain
3 a : a woman eminent in rank, power, or attractions <a movie queen> b : a goddess or a thing personified as female and having supremacy in a specified realm c : an attractive girl or woman; especially : a beauty contest winner
4 : the most privileged piece of each color in a set of chessmen having the power to move in any direction across any number of unoccupied squares
5 : a playing card marked with a stylized figure of a queen
6 : the fertile fully developed female of social bees, ants, and termites whose function is to lay eggs
7 : a mature female cat kept especially for breeding
well the dictionary is always right.
Pronunciation: 'kwEn
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English quene, from Old English cwEn woman, wife, queen; akin to Gothic qens wife, Greek gynE woman, Sanskrit jani
1 a : the wife or widow of a king b : the wife or widow of a tribal chief
2 a : a female monarch b : a female chieftain
3 a : a woman eminent in rank, power, or attractions <a movie queen> b : a goddess or a thing personified as female and having supremacy in a specified realm c : an attractive girl or woman; especially : a beauty contest winner
4 : the most privileged piece of each color in a set of chessmen having the power to move in any direction across any number of unoccupied squares
5 : a playing card marked with a stylized figure of a queen
6 : the fertile fully developed female of social bees, ants, and termites whose function is to lay eggs
7 : a mature female cat kept especially for breeding
well the dictionary is always right.
nice example ATG.ATC wrote:
Main Entry: queen
Pronunciation: 'kwEn
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English quene, from Old English cwEn woman, wife, queen; akin to Gothic qens wife, Greek gynE woman, Sanskrit jani
1 a : the wife or widow of a king b : the wife or widow of a tribal chief
2 a : a female monarch b : a female chieftain
3 a : a woman eminent in rank, power, or attractions <a movie queen> b : a goddess or a thing personified as female and having supremacy in a specified realm c : an attractive girl or woman; especially : a beauty contest winner
4 : the most privileged piece of each color in a set of chessmen having the power to move in any direction across any number of unoccupied squares
5 : a playing card marked with a stylized figure of a queen
6 : the fertile fully developed female of social bees, ants, and termites whose function is to lay eggs
7 : a mature female cat kept especially for breeding
well the dictionary is always right.
to our much more liberal friends, allow me to try to explain what a lot of us are feeling.
if he feels the need to pretend to be a woman, fine. thats all he's doing. pretending.
I personally feel that much of the reason he won has to do with the fact that he was different, like people voting for hillary or obama just because she's a woman and he's black. put yourself in the place of his competitors (for queen), and think about the message that sends to you. it screams This guy is a better woman that you.
high schools are not a good locale for rights revolutions to take off. students are very very very emotionally touchy, and something like this can set off a bomb very easily. perhaps if the general public had more experience dealing with transgender rights, and perhaps if said rights were laid out a little better people would be able to hack it.
Once again, i have to use the over-used fraise---"It was Adam and Eve, not Adam and Steve."
If you don't have a vagina you shouldn't be eligiable for prom queen. Maybe we should let him play in the WNBA as well.