I was on the arrows. He got it wrong. Suxxx
Here is a REAL genius at work.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=befugtgikMg
Here is a REAL genius at work.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=befugtgikMg
Last edited by dead_rac00n (2007-05-10 09:37:17)
It said "now I predict that won't have chosen the letter v" when I had my finger on it.
Either I did it wrong, or this dude sucks.
Either I did it wrong, or this dude sucks.
Wrong you are forced mathematically by continual elimination(s) and odd/even move counts (the binary possibilities; thus being resolved to a logical true/false; whether you can land on a square or not); you are forced to the smiley-face-square in the end. Choice has nothing to do with it.sfarrar33 wrote:
I don't deny the maths and i accept that some was used so that you cannot get to the V the house or the arrows, but theres nothing mathmatical forcing you onto the smiley face and the maths used... it just isn't really needed at all it looks like the psychologists used it to increase the chances of them being proved right and you going 'wow'.topal63 wrote:
It is so ridiculously simple. I can't understand why he can't see that it is a simple math-trick.heggs wrote:
No.
I've gone through the video plenty of times and I can verify a that there are squares that you absolutely cannot reach (ie. the ones that get eliminated) at specific parts of the video. It is impossible, whether you like it or not, to get to those squares.
Did you ever stop to think that perhaps the makers of the video want you to think it's a subliminal message by adding the flash of that smiley face card?
As I said, do some research, and try what topal suggested.
If the total number of moves (after three instructions; in the video) was an even count, 2, 4, 6, 8, 10, 12 etc... it would be possible to end up on the V-square. But when it is an odd number of moves (after three instructions; in the video = 11 moves, an odd number) it is impossible.
If the total number was any odd number of moves: 1, 3, 5, 7, 9, 11, 13, 15... ad infinitum it would not be possible to end up on the V-square.
Wow! This is good! Great Find! +1
Exactly. He's trying to suggest you, that you have a choice.topal63 wrote:
Choice has nothing to do with it.
But you don't have. There is just one logical result in the end if you follow his instructions accurate.
No matter what way you are taking, you will always end up on the same square in the end.
No you arn'ttopal63 wrote:
Wrong you are forced mathematically by continual elimination(s) and odd/even move counts (the binary possibilities; thus being resolved to a logical true/false; whether you can land on a square or not); you are forced to the smiley-face-square in the end. Choice has nothing to do with it.
have you even done the thing?
me and not only me have managed to end up on a different square from the smiley face and i already explained how to go about it, but if want a more detailed version here it is
step one: go left
step two: go up then down then up then down continuously between the top centre and cente squares until he removes the top centre square which you will not be on, then you go from the centre to the bottom centre square continuosly and you will be on the centre square when he removes it
step three: oh look thats it he will remove the middle square and your finger should be on it (if you followed his instructons)
so topal wheres your maths now?
He failed for me. I ended up on the wavy lines when he 'predicted' I wasn't.
Shiiiit, that guy didn't predict me. I cheated and moved diagonally though.
In my ability to count and follow instructions properly. If you could follow his instructions, which you did not correctly, you will be forced onto the smiley-face square.sfarrar33 wrote:
No you arn'ttopal63 wrote:
Wrong you are forced mathematically by continual elimination(s) and odd/even move counts (the binary possibilities; thus being resolved to a logical true/false; whether you can land on a square or not); you are forced to the smiley-face-square in the end. Choice has nothing to do with it.
have you even done the thing?
me and not only me have managed to end up on a different square from the smiley face and i already explained how to go about it, but if want a more detailed version here it is
step one: go left
step two: go up then down then up then down continuously between the top centre and cente squares until he removes the top centre square which you will not be on, then you go from the centre to the bottom centre square continuosly and you will be on the centre square when he removes it
step three: oh look thats it he will remove the middle square and your finger should be on it (if you followed his instructons)
so topal wheres your maths now?
P.S. You can't go UP when you are on the top-center square. Something is wrong with your supposed way out of a mathematical-solution.
Last edited by topal63 (2007-05-11 07:40:59)
:-| you cannot be serious... i mean learn to read "up and down then up then down between the top centre and centre squares" it seems to be very pedantic of you that you nit pick at non existant grammatical errors in what i post.topal63 wrote:
In my ability to count and follow instructions properly. If you could follow his instructions, which you did not correctly, you will be forced onto the smiley-face square.
P.S. You can't go UP when you are on the top-center square. Something is wrong with your supposed way out of a mathematical-solution.
and i have re-done the video a few times now just to check that i am right and that i am not mishearing him, but still i seem to be able to finish up on the centre square every time...
You are the one arguing against 100% math. You are obviously not following directions, possibly because you are believing what you think instead of following direction. Do you have a video camera (or even a digital camera)? IF I find time today at work I will explain it in a video so you can understand.sfarrar33 wrote:
:-| you cannot be serious... i mean learn to read "up and down then up then down between the top centre and centre squares" it seems to be very pedantic of you that you nit pick at non existant grammatical errors in what i post.topal63 wrote:
In my ability to count and follow instructions properly. If you could follow his instructions, which you did not correctly, you will be forced onto the smiley-face square.
P.S. You can't go UP when you are on the top-center square. Something is wrong with your supposed way out of a mathematical-solution.
and i have re-done the video a few times now just to check that i am right and that i am not mishearing him, but still i seem to be able to finish up on the centre square every time...
edit: - You said go left in step one - that would put you on the 'Ø'. In step two, you say, go up - that is impossible, as the 'Ø' is on the top row.
Last edited by KEN-JENNINGS (2007-05-11 10:20:03)
Is it even possible to argue against math? Math is the one indisputable thing in the universe.KEN-JENNINGS wrote:
You are the one arguing against 100% math. You are obviously not following directions, possibly because you are believing what you think instead of following direction. Do you have a video camera (or even a digital camera)? IF I find time today at work I will explain it in a video so you can understand.sfarrar33 wrote:
:-| you cannot be serious... i mean learn to read "up and down then up then down between the top centre and centre squares" it seems to be very pedantic of you that you nit pick at non existant grammatical errors in what i post.topal63 wrote:
In my ability to count and follow instructions properly. If you could follow his instructions, which you did not correctly, you will be forced onto the smiley-face square.
P.S. You can't go UP when you are on the top-center square. Something is wrong with your supposed way out of a mathematical-solution.
and i have re-done the video a few times now just to check that i am right and that i am not mishearing him, but still i seem to be able to finish up on the centre square every time...
1+1=2 and you cannot dispute that. So on and so forth.
That is incredibly simple maths, the number he picks makes it impossible for you to end on the chosen square.
Rules: You cannot move diagonal, you can only move in a linear manner right-left, or up-down, on the 3 x 3 grid.
Notes:
a.) The choices will alternate on odd/even (total running) counts, permitting only certain possible squares from being reached on the grid; therefore eliminating the possibility of specific squares on the grid from being reached.
b.) The grid-squares are not really squares. In the video they are actually rectangular.
The Grid:
[1] [2] [3]
[4] [5] [6]
[7] [8] [9]
1.) Start on Square 1: Upper Right (start-square) [3].
2.) Make 1 move: You cannot be on grid [3], the start-square, you will be on either even numbered grid square [2] or [6], highlighted in green.
3.) Grid square [3] is eliminated.
4.) Make 7 more moves: anywhere from grid squares [2] or [6], it is impossible to end up on even numbered grid squares [2], [4], [6], [8], you can only land upon the odd numbered grid squares [1], [5], [7] or [9].
5.) Grid square [4] is eliminated.
6.) Make 3 more moves, from any odd number grid square [1], [5], [7] or [9], you cannot end up upon any of the odd number squares, you will end up upon an even numbered grid square [2], [6] or [8].
7.) Grid square [1] is eliminated.
8.) Make 7 more moves, from even number grid square [2], [6] or [8], you cannot end up upon any of the even number squares, you will end up upon an odd numbered grid square [5], [7] or [9].
9.) Grid square [2] is eliminated.
10.) Make 5 more moves, from odd number grid square [5], [7] or [9], you cannot end up upon any of the odd number squares, you will end up upon an even numbered grid square [6] or [8].
11.) Grid square [7] is eliminated.
12.) Make 9 more moves, from even number grid square [6] or [8], you cannot end up upon any of the even number squares, you will end up upon an odd numbered grid square [5] or [9].
13.) Grid square [6] is eliminated.
14.) Make 3 more moves, from odd number grid square [5] or [9], you can only end up upon even numbered grid square [8].
15.) Grid square [5] is eliminated.
16.) With 1 move left - you are forced onto grid square [9] - the smiley face.
It really wouldn't matter what number of moves he used in each step (as he eliminated grid-squares), as long as each (step's) move count was an odd number of moves. Then it will alternate on an odd-even running total count.sfarrar33 wrote:
:-| you cannot be serious... i mean learn to read "up and down then up then down between the top centre and centre squares" it seems to be very pedantic of you that you nit pick at non existant grammatical errors in what i post.topal63 wrote:
In my ability to count and follow instructions properly. If you could follow his instructions, which you did not correctly, you will be forced onto the smiley-face square.
P.S. You can't go UP when you are on the top-center square. Something is wrong with your supposed way out of a mathematical-solution.
and i have re-done the video a few times now just to check that i am right and that i am not mishearing him, but still i seem to be able to finish up on the centre square every time...
Do you see the alternating pattern of odd-even numbers - as choices - represented in the grid? They alternate each step of the way. Either the odd numbered grid-squares are reachable; or the even numbered grid-squares are reachable. It is not a matter of choice. Choice has nothing to do with it.
OK? Have I over-explained it yet?[1] [2] [3] 0 [2] 0 [1] 1 [3]
[4] [5] [6] [4] 0 [6] 1 [5] 1
[7] [8] [9] 0 [8] 0 [7] 1 [9]
Thus as a possiblity it is reduced (on every odd/even total count switch) to:
[0] [1] [0]
[1] [0] [1]
[0] [1] [0]
It will alternate between each pattern of possibility on every odd number (move instruction).
Last edited by topal63 (2007-05-12 23:56:18)
and yet you quote the post where i explain that out...KENJENNINGS wrote:
edit: - You said go left in step one - that would put you on the 'Ø'. In step two, you say, go up - that is impossible, as the 'Ø' is on the top row.
haha definatlytopal63 wrote:
OK? Have I over-explained it yet?
ah i dno i still seem able to be on the middle square when he removes it, must be youtubes quality combined with my rather 'free' speakers or something lol
but i will conceed that your idea seems to make the most sense and therefore you win
that just leaves the fact that it kind of dulls the trick if you cannot beat it doesn't it, i think that i will stick to my versions which require no maths and the mere power of suggestion
[1] [2] [3] 0 [2] 0 [1] 1 [3]sfarrar33 wrote:
and yet you quote the post where i explain that out...KENJENNINGS wrote:
edit: - You said go left in step one - that would put you on the 'Ø'. In step two, you say, go up - that is impossible, as the 'Ø' is on the top row.haha definatlytopal63 wrote:
OK? Have I over-explained it yet?
ah i dno i still seem able to be on the middle square when he removes it, must be youtubes quality combined with my rather 'free' speakers or something lol
but i will conceed that your idea seems to make the most sense and therefore you win
that just leaves the fact that it kind of dulls the trick if you cannot beat it doesn't it, i think that i will stick to my versions which require no maths and the mere power of suggestion
[4] [5] [6] [4] 0 [6] 1 [5] 1
[7] [8] [9] 0 [8] 0 [7] 1 [9]
Thus as a possiblity it is reduced (on every odd/even total count switch) to:
[0] [1] [0]
[1] [0] [1]
[0] [1] [0]
It will alternate between each pattern of possibility on every odd number (moce instruction).
Meaning you could do this to your friends, real time in person, with blocks, stickey-paper, whatever. You could tell them start here... and I predict you will end up here. And then they will be like HUH?
Your move count just needs to be an odd number count, so the running total adds up to an alternating odd/even value.
Example Start on [1] move 3 (an odd # of) times, they will end upon an EVEN #. Eliminate an ODD #, repeat say with 5 (an odd # of) moves, remove an EVEN #. Repeat with odd # move count again. Alternate with removing ODD then EVEN #'s off the grid. Eventually you can with a modest amount; a minimal amount; of practice force them onto a specific grid-square [some specific odd# on the grid]... every time.
Last edited by topal63 (2007-05-12 23:54:48)
You only explain how you are incorrectly following the directions. You can't go up on the 'Ø' square. There is no square above it. Perhaps this is why you are ending up in the middle.sfarrar33 wrote:
and yet you quote the post where i explain that out...KENJENNINGS wrote:
edit: - You said go left in step one - that would put you on the 'Ø'. In step two, you say, go up - that is impossible, as the 'Ø' is on the top row.
As for your "mere power of suggestion", that simply does not work (except for you because you have convinced yourself it does).
Last edited by KEN-JENNINGS (2007-05-11 12:36:37)
it failed for me
i got on his symbol the 1st time was like meh.
i got on his symbol the 1st time was like meh.
1. Scroll up and read dead_rac00n's post and click that wonderful link of his, thats a very strong example of the power of suggestion, you can believe it doesn't exist or you can believe it does thats up to you, there is much hard evidence it does exist however only little of it has been scientifically explained, hardly a rarity amongst scientific things though. Also the power of suggestion isn't a strong one unless you want it too be, if you firmly believe a darren brown type of trick will not work on you, then it will not work simple as, its not a major skill and your psyche is not altered it really is just a trick non the less an impressive one.KEN-JENNINGS wrote:
You only explain how you are incorrectly following the directions. You can't go up on the 'Ø' square. There is no square above it. Perhaps this is why you are ending up in the middle.sfarrar33 wrote:
and yet you quote the post where i explain that out...KENJENNINGS wrote:
edit: - You said go left in step one - that would put you on the 'Ø'. In step two, you say, go up - that is impossible, as the 'Ø' is on the top row.
As for your "mere power of suggestion", that simply does not work (except for you because you have convinced yourself it does).
2. i am not saying go up on the Ø square i am saying go up and down between the Ø square and the centre square (extra hint: BETWEEN is the key word here)
you can this is true, a non mathmatical and simple one if anyone is interested is take four playing cards and make sure non of them is a king, queen, jack, or ace (for simplicity's sake). For the purposes of the example lets take a 4 of clubs, a 6 of spades, an 8 of aces and a 3 of hearts (only the 4 of clubs is important the rest can really be what you like for this example). Find someone sort of suggestable and lay the cards out in front of them on a table.topal63 wrote:
Meaning you could do this to your friends, real time in person, with blocks, stickey-paper, whatever. You could tell them start here... and I predict you will end up here. And then they will be like HUH?
Then, this bit will require 5 minutes practise before hand and often some improvisation, explain what you are going to do using key terms within the sentances you use "so this is my little club trick here" "its four those times i feel like showing off" sounds cheesy on its own but hey you have to work to be able to get it into the sentances and sound natural. It will help if everytime you say a key word you make a small subtle body movement such as make eye contact very briefly or shift position. Make absolutly sure you don't ladle on the key terms too much or too obviously, there is of course 3 such terms "black" "4/for" and "club".
Personally as i talk with my hands most of the time i tend to start waving my hand in the direction of the cards or curling my thumb into my palm very briefly making a four, again it shouldn't be obvious don't just sit there and randomly shout four in the middle of sentances and don't just wave 4 fingers in front of their face all the time. Then simply say "so what are we waiting for? choose any card you like but don't say it outloud for (yes this will actually slip past most people if said right) i don't want to know yet"
then simply and smugly ask them if they chose the four of clubs
if i had a camera i would find some fool who i hadn't done that trick on yet and show you it, but alas no camera, but hey if you actually read that and understand that have fun with it if you want
But i didnt get the smiley face
1. The power of suggestion is different than subliminal messages. Darren Brown largely uses the idea of conditioned response and "comfortable thinking".sfarrar33 wrote:
1. Scroll up and read dead_rac00n's post and click that wonderful link of his, thats a very strong example of the power of suggestion, you can believe it doesn't exist or you can believe it does thats up to you, there is much hard evidence it does exist however only little of it has been scientifically explained, hardly a rarity amongst scientific things though. Also the power of suggestion isn't a strong one unless you want it too be, if you firmly believe a darren brown type of trick will not work on you, then it will not work simple as, its not a major skill and your psyche is not altered it really is just a trick non the less an impressive one.KEN-JENNINGS wrote:
You only explain how you are incorrectly following the directions. You can't go up on the 'Ø' square. There is no square above it. Perhaps this is why you are ending up in the middle.sfarrar33 wrote:
and yet you quote the post where i explain that out...
As for your "mere power of suggestion", that simply does not work (except for you because you have convinced yourself it does).
2. i am not saying go up on the Ø square i am saying go up and down between the Ø square and the centre square (extra hint: BETWEEN is the key word here)
A Darren Brown type of "trick" would be the popular "Nine Dot" puzzle:
This is largely different from flashing an image on the screen to subconsciously plant that image in your memory (which is inconclusive in regards to results).
2. If you follow your own directions (as you just laid out) then you will end up on the square he chooses. Simple as that. There is no argument, no way around it.
This is not a "power of suggestion" experiment. This is not an experiment where you are relying on the user to base decisions off preconceived ideas or symbols (as your experiment is). It is math, plain and simple.
Last edited by KEN-JENNINGS (2007-05-11 13:32:09)
oh i get it now, i use the term 'power of suggestion' as an umbrella term for any mental trick that doesn't require the subject/participant/victim to be forced into anything its just that they go along with it for any number of reasons, whilst you use it more specifically hence the misunderstanding.KEN-JENNINGS wrote:
1. The power of suggestion is different than subliminal messages. Darren Brown largely uses the idea of conditioned response and "comfortable thinking".
A Darren Brown type of "trick" would be the popular "Nine Dot" puzzle:
http://i9.tinypic.com/4qnxn2e.jpg
This is largely different from flashing an image on the screen to subconsciously plant that image in your memory (which is inconclusive in regards to results).
2. If you follow your own directions (as you just laid out) then you will end up on the square he chooses. Simple as that. There is no argument, no way around it.
This is not a "power of suggestion" experiment. This is not an experiment where you are relying on the user to base decisions off preconceived ideas or symbols (as your experiment is). It is math, plain and simple.
and as for your second point thats already been previously addressed.
And i don't think Darren Brown has ever doen a 9 dot puzzle or anything even remotly similar...
Whatever. Do you finally see that it is a math puzzle that your argument is of no relevance to?sfarrar33 wrote:
oh i get it now, i use the term 'power of suggestion' as an umbrella term for any mental trick that doesn't require the subject/participant/victim to be forced into anything its just that they go along with it for any number of reasons, whilst you use it more specifically hence the misunderstanding.KEN-JENNINGS wrote:
1. The power of suggestion is different than subliminal messages. Darren Brown largely uses the idea of conditioned response and "comfortable thinking".
A Darren Brown type of "trick" would be the popular "Nine Dot" puzzle:
http://i9.tinypic.com/4qnxn2e.jpg
This is largely different from flashing an image on the screen to subconsciously plant that image in your memory (which is inconclusive in regards to results).
2. If you follow your own directions (as you just laid out) then you will end up on the square he chooses. Simple as that. There is no argument, no way around it.
This is not a "power of suggestion" experiment. This is not an experiment where you are relying on the user to base decisions off preconceived ideas or symbols (as your experiment is). It is math, plain and simple.
and as for your second point thats already been previously addressed.
And i don't think Darren Brown has ever doen a 9 dot puzzle or anything even remotly similar...
Aaaaah. God damnit, I thought I'd get him. I was like, haha, I'm about to prove this guy wrong. And then I land on the happy face. Thats just amazing.
*sigh* to save you the effort of reading posts since you appear to have a phobia for it i shall quote myselfKEN-JENNINGS wrote:
Whatever. Do you finally see that it is a math puzzle that your argument is of no relevance to?
this is a long winded way of saying 'yes' just to make it absolutly sure you get ithaha definatly
ah i dno i still seem able to be on the middle square when he removes it, must be youtubes quality combined with my rather 'free' speakers or something lol
but i will conceed that your idea seems to make the most sense and therefore you win