BF2S Forums Australia hands over man to US courts

Turquoise wrote:

usmarine2005 wrote:

Turquoise wrote:

Because he committed a crime that I've committed, but he did it on a much larger scale.

I can sympathize with piraters -- especially people who pirate Windows.  You don't have much of a choice but to upgrade whenever something new comes out, and with the amount that they charge for each new installment, I can't blame someone for finding a way around the charge.

It's not like Microsoft has much competition when Bill Gates owns a large share of Apple.

Buy Apple products then.

Don't justify someone stealing millions of dollars.

Here's a counterargument...

Why would such a high demand for pirated products exist in the first place?  Could it be that the prices set for the products tend to be higher than is reasonably justified or marketed?

Groups like the RIAA and the MPAA make a big deal out of piracy, but if the average CD wasn't $20 and the average ticket $10, then more people would buy material than pirate it.

Some people are going to download music, software, and movies regardless of the prices set, but streaming services and Netflix prove that people are still willing to buy things like entertainment even if they have the tools necessary for pirating (high speed internet and a decent computer).  These industries succeed because of their affordability.

High prices don't justify pirating, but they do provide a rationale for the act itself.

I like Skoal.  I pay about 5 bucks a can for it.  Do I think it is too much?  Yes.  Should I knock off a Circle K for it?

Turquoise wrote:

Do you think that I need to use violence to "steal" a CD?

To compare piracy to robbing a convenience store is problematic on multiple levels.  I'm not threatening anyone's life by using IRC.  In fact, thanks to an obscure law passed in the 90s, it's completely legal.

Good point. 

So it is ok for me to hack an on line tobacco site for my Skoal then?

I think that most of you are missing the point entirely.  The point is that he was IMPORTED FROM HIS OWN COUNTRY WITHOUT A TRIAL.  Let us assume that I am just an innocent citizen of the US  who has never commited any kind of crime.  One day, I am arrested and sent to another country with differnt laws and a different judicial system without even being convicted of a crime.  This is disturbing, because, Where does it end?
It may not seem like a big deal, but next thing you know, you are being imported to Bosnia because they don't like you(Mabe you have found one of implanted spies in the US or somthing ) using falsified evidence, and you get a life sentence in a Bosnian prison.  And this whole time you have never even set foot in Bosnia!  I know that was a major exaggeration for several different reasons, but that was the point I was trying to make.

Last edited by Deadmonkiefart (2007-05-06 20:53:51)

Deadmonkiefart wrote:

I think that most of you are missing the point entirely.  The point is that he was IMPORTED FROM HIS OWN COUNTRY WITHOUT A TRIAL.  Let us assume that I am just an innocent citizen of the US  who has never commited any kind of crime.  One day, I am arrested and sent to another country with differnt laws and a different judicial system without even being convicted of a crime.  This is disturbing, because, Where does it end?
It may not seem like a big deal, but next thing you know, you are being imported to Bosnia because they don't like you(Mabe you have found one of implanted spies in the US or somthing ) using falsified evidence, and you get a life sentence in a Bosnian prison.  And this whole time you have never even set foot in Bosnia!  I know that was a major exaggeration for several different reasons, but that was the point I was trying to make.

True...  that is a very valid possibility, and to be quite frank, we've done similar things to people we thought were terrorist suspects.  We've used Uzbekistan extensively as an "interrogation center" after apprehending people abroad we believed had broken some sort of law or another.

I guess I shouldn't be that surprised at how this turned out.

Last edited by Turquoise (2007-05-06 20:57:14)

Your flag has 57 stars.  Australia is made up of 6 states, and America is made up of 50 states.  Since when does 6+50=57?

Last edited by Deadmonkiefart (2007-05-06 22:57:03)

fuck america, he didnt even steal their MONEY, he just made it so that other people wounldn't have to pay...

Pubic wrote:

Deadmonkiefart wrote:

Your flag has 57 stars.  Australia is made up of 6 states, and America is nade up of 50 states.  Since when does 6+50=57?

Because I thought there were 7

And they say that Americans are bad at Geography. *shakes head*

Fenris_GreyClaw wrote:

Pubic wrote:

Deadmonkiefart wrote:

Your flag has 57 stars.  Australia is made up of 6 states, and America is nade up of 50 states.  Since when does 6+50=57?

Because I thought there were 7

There is seven....

[*]1. South Australia
[*]2. Western Australia
[*]3. Tasmania
[*]4. Northern Territory
[*]5. Queensland
[*]6. New South Wales
[*]7. Australian Capital Territory

No. There are 6 states and 2 territories.  The states are New South Wales, Queensland, South Australia, Tasmania, Victoria and Western Australia.  The territories are  Northern Territory and the Australian Capital Territory.

-The Floccinaucinihilipilificator strikes again!

Last edited by Deadmonkiefart (2007-05-06 23:06:00)

Deadmonkiefart wrote:

No. There are 6 states and 2 territories.  The states are New South Wales, Queensland, South Australia, Tasmania, Victoria and Western Australia.  The territories are  Northern Territory and the Australian Capital Territory.

-The Floccinaucinihilipilificator strikes again!

Changed to reflect 6 states.

Come to think of it, leaving the extra one in would account for the part of aussie law which says we can join at any time...maybe I should make the 57th an outline instead? A black star perhaps?

Last edited by Pubic (2007-05-06 23:09:51)

The laws in Australia cover the area. They provide for punishment for this crime.  The courts here are competent to prosecute it.

The courts didn't send him, the a$$ kissing government sent him. Yeah Chris Ellison. Worst Attorney general ever.  Our troops and country supporting the US world wide for generations gets us diddly squat respect in down town DC.

As someone said, why didn't the US companies use Australian courts? Probably because they wanted to make an example of him. Easier for the US court to crack down on some evil foreigner than good ole Johnny Reb with his constitutional rights and perhaps some sympathy.

The fact is - unfair. The guy's rights got stuffed for political expediency and to keep the US happy. Keep in mind the guy was also held on remand for years while this got argued out - he wasn't on bail. For software piracy. Rapists and murderers get off easier.

I look forward to the next time the US whinges about Belgium or some other contry trying to extradite Henry Kissinger or some other sap for war crimes etc, for alleged breaches of just as international laws that the US pays just as mucg lip service to.

If you only apply laws and principles when it suits you, it makes you a hypocrite. Especially when you hold yourself up as a bastion of freedom, democracy, etc, etc.

I look forward to the extradition request to China for the millions of Chinese software pirates committing breaches of that treaty daily .... how big a prison do you need?

Neither I, nor  my 7 best friends ever smoked a "joint".

I think the article maybe leaving some information out.  For example, were some of the servers he using in the US?  If so then those servers are subject to US laws.  That would mean that if there were pirated material on those severs, then he did break American laws. 

I could read deep into the story and say that the person that wrote it maybe trying to bash America, or the RIAA, or the US entertainment/software companies in general. 

There are not enough facts here to say it is was correct or if it was incorrect to have him departed.