JahManRed
wank
+646|6598|IRELAND

ATG wrote:

Stingray24 wrote:

How about severely fining and locking the doors of any business who employs illegals for one month for every illegal employee.
I would consider that an act of war and I would respond accordingly.
Not a bad idea Stingray, hit the employers in the pocket. But that would have the knock on effect of having millions of starving Mexicans robbing and stealing to survive and a major man power crises. Annex Mexico or invest heavily in it. Build factories and industries and move production to Mexico and leave America blue collar.

@ATG
Just like you say in another thread about Iraqi that we 'liberals' have no solutions so should STFU, you aren't presenting any for this problem. Which should be of more concern that a patch of desert half way around the world. How do you solve it? Punish the politicians? Politicians rarely punish politicians.

Do you or have you ever employ illegals?
commissargizz
Member
+123|6434| Heaven
Didn't the US liberate, steal, colonised, a lot of Mexican territory? Well give them back California etc. Then they wont illegals anymore.

Maybe they want they land back?
aardfrith
Δ > x > ¥
+145|6763

Kmarion wrote:

Turquoise wrote:

ATG wrote:


Its cowardly to hold employers responsible when you are not demanding the arrest and fining of government assholes who fail to do their jobs .
I'd say it's more cowardly for an employer of illegals to continually condemn illegals.  If you hire them, you are part of the problem, not the solution.

I'm all for holding officials responsible for their negligence, but I'm also in favor of practicing what I preach.
What if employing illegals are required for employers to survive competitively and provide for their families? If the government were competent enough to take care of the illegal problem it would not be necessary for employers to use them in order to compete. Just something to let your brain marinate in. Keep the playing field level while enforcing the law.
If it's necessary for a business to employ illegal labour to compete in the market place, there's something wrong with that business.

Alternatively, look at it from the illegal immigrants point of view.  To provide for their families, they must attempt to travel to the United States (illegally) and get work there (illegally).

Doing something illegal with the excuse that it's to provide for one's family is bullshit.  It's still illegal no matter how you cut it.
Stingray24
Proud member of the vast right-wing conspiracy
+1,060|6415|The Land of Scott Walker

ATG wrote:

Stingray24 wrote:

How about severely fining and locking the doors of any business who employs illegals for one month for every illegal employee.
I would consider that an act of war and I would respond accordingly.
How else do we hold employers accountable?  Heavy fines?

Certainly we need to hold politicians/government accountable for their actions.  In LA a police officer CANNOT ask the immigration status of someone that they KNOW is in the country illegally.  So instead of being able to arrest him and send him back, they have to WAIT until he commits a CRIME!!!!  Stupidity born from political correctness.  No, everyone on our soil does not have rights.  If you are a citizen you do, if you are illegal, you do not.  Starting one's life in a new country by breaking the law is not a good way to start off and shows their disregard for our laws.  What makes us think they won't break any other law they don't find convenient?  I wish our country would get serious about this issue.

Last edited by Stingray24 (2007-05-04 05:55:14)

ATG
Banned
+5,233|6499|Global Command

JahManRed wrote:

ATG wrote:

Stingray24 wrote:

How about severely fining and locking the doors of any business who employs illegals for one month for every illegal employee.
I would consider that an act of war and I would respond accordingly.
Not a bad idea Stingray, hit the employers in the pocket. But that would have the knock on effect of having millions of starving Mexicans robbing and stealing to survive and a major man power crises. Annex Mexico or invest heavily in it. Build factories and industries and move production to Mexico and leave America blue collar.

@ATG
Just like you say in another thread about Iraqi that we 'liberals' have no solutions so should STFU, you aren't presenting any for this problem. Which should be of more concern that a patch of desert half way around the world. How do you solve it? Punish the politicians? Politicians rarely punish politicians.

Do you or have you ever employ illegals?
My solutions can hardly be posted. * edit, but for the sake of argument I will suggest what I think would be required. It won't happen: at least, not by me.


For one thing, the second video, where you have elected  government officials addressing a crowd of illegals, those officials need to be taken out. I'm not talking about voting either. It's gotten so bad that only violence will displace them.

Then you would have to make the politicians afraid that if they did not do their  jobs and enforce existing laws that they may be killed.

Once existing laws are enforced, and the border has it's fence, we need a realistic nation I.D. card.
Once the border agents are in place on the border you let the mexican government and people know that vehicles and people crossing the border in not approved sectors would be fired upon. You inform the mexican government that if they keep giving maps to migrants wanting to cross the desert we would consider that an act of war.

As a last result you annex mexico and forcibly rework their system.


My business is at a crossroads.
Here, on the front lines 88 miles from Mexicon, it is IMPOSSIBLE to run a business without the use of mexicans.

I've scaled back my company, because its a drought. I scaled back to two mexicans and my one white guy.

Ironically, my illegal aliens worker is my highest paid guy, because he does the best work and has the most experience.

Yes I have an illegal alien. He has a state issued pin number ( instead of a social security number ), and has taxes withheld like everybody else.

The reality is, the United States knows they are here, as they issue them pin numbers and tax returns.
The United States knows they work for me, as I require my employees to provide a Social security number. These numbers are made up, or purchased on the street, and the government does not flag them as unemployable, or do anything to discourage me from using them.
Certain areas, the streets are lined with illegal aliens standing around, pissing in the street waiting for work.

More later...

Last edited by ATG (2007-05-04 07:37:56)

Bubbalo
The Lizzard
+541|6531
Right............so fines and forced closures are an act of war, but attacking elected officials is a solution?
ATG
Banned
+5,233|6499|Global Command

Bubbalo wrote:

Right............so fines and forced closures are an act of war, but attacking elected officials is a solution?
I'm saying the fines and foreclosures are not gonna happen.

The cops that would be doing the closing have illegal aliens cutting their grass, cleaning their toilets and watching their kids.

The situation is too far gone for that.

I advocating replacing the existing government with a new one.
http://www.americanpatrol.com/REFERENCE … uista.html
Gil Cedillo is a state senator. ALL he does is attempt to pass different versions of bills giving illegals licenses.
We call him " one Bill gil ".

WTF, do we really need people like this involved with our government? He and his ilk must be removed from office by any means.
CameronPoe
Member
+2,925|6525
@ ATG

Is it not grossly hypocritical for you to complain about illegal immigration and continue to happily employ them?
Bubbalo
The Lizzard
+541|6531

ATG wrote:

Bubbalo wrote:

Right............so fines and forced closures are an act of war, but attacking elected officials is a solution?
I'm saying the fines and foreclosures are not gonna happen.
Uh................?

ATG wrote:

Stingray24 wrote:

How about severely fining and locking the doors of any business who employs illegals for one month for every illegal employee.
I would consider that an act of war and I would respond accordingly.
*Note, not saying you're lying or being contradictory, just wanting clarification, as you've clearly overwhelmed my feeble Lizzard brain.
ATG
Banned
+5,233|6499|Global Command

CameronPoe wrote:

@ ATG

Is it not grossly hypocritical for you to complain about illegal immigration and continue to happily employ them?
Actually, I'm fairly miserable. To the point that I am manuevering to leave the state, and change the nature of my business from service to retail.
Grossly hypocritical would be underpaying them and not paying taxes.
As much as 1/3 of the population here on the frontlines are illegal aliens.

What can I do?

Strryker here on the forums has been offered a job.
I don't EVER stop for illegal day-laborers. I require SS numbers, the state does nothing to verify they are legit. I use state labor location services, and guess what: all they send over are illegal aliens.

My best guy made 55k last year, any legal citizens in southern california needing work feel free to pm me.

We are fucked here, as an employer.
CameronPoe
Member
+2,925|6525

ATG wrote:

CameronPoe wrote:

@ ATG

Is it not grossly hypocritical for you to complain about illegal immigration and continue to happily employ them?
Actually, I'm fairly miserable. To the point that I am manuevering to leave the state, and change the nature of my business from service to retail.
Grossly hypocritical would be underpaying them and not paying taxes.
As much as 1/3 of the population here on the frontlines are illegal aliens.

What can I do?

Strryker here on the forums has been offered a job.
I don't EVER stop for illegal day-laborers. I require SS numbers, the state does nothing to verify they are legit. I use state labor location services, and guess what: all they send over are illegal aliens.

My best guy made 55k last year, any legal citizens in southern california needing work feel free to pm me.

We are fucked here, as an employer.
It sounds like your problem is purely governmental. You should try adopting my 'six steps to success'. The concept of an SS number being easy to forge/fake or difficult to validate baffles me.

Last edited by CameronPoe (2007-05-04 07:55:42)

Kmar
Truth is my Bitch
+5,695|6571|132 and Bush

aardfrith wrote:

If it's necessary for a business to employ illegal labour to compete in the market place, there's something wrong with that business.
There is something wrong with the local industry yes. But if you understand capitalism then you are aware that once a competitor finds a way to cut overhead either you adapt or file chapter 7.

aardfrith wrote:

Alternatively, look at it from the illegal immigrants point of view.  To provide for their families, they must attempt to travel to the United States (illegally) and get work there (illegally).
The following quote will contradict what you just wrote nicely.

aardfrith wrote:

Doing something illegal with the excuse that it's to provide for one's family is bullshit.  It's still illegal no matter how you cut it.
Xbone Stormsurgezz
sergeriver
Cowboy from Hell
+1,928|6728|Argentina
ATG you should blame your president for being more concerned about Iraq borders than the US borders.
ATG
Banned
+5,233|6499|Global Command

sergeriver wrote:

ATG you should blame your president for being more concerned about Iraq borders than the US borders.
It would not be prudent or legal to post what I think of Bush.
Kmar
Truth is my Bitch
+5,695|6571|132 and Bush

sergeriver wrote:

ATG you should blame your president for being more concerned about Iraq borders than the US borders.
And what about congress? They are fully capable of proposing a workable solution. But we all know blame is safer than action. Given the amount of illegals in this country I'd be willing to bet that this problem should have been addressed a long time ago by previous presidents as well. The ones who were not engaged in war.
Xbone Stormsurgezz
ATG
Banned
+5,233|6499|Global Command
In all fairness, Reagan blew it with the first amnesty.
We were told it was a one time thing and from then on the laws would be enforced.
pfft @ them all.
aardfrith
Δ > x > ¥
+145|6763

Kmarion wrote:

aardfrith wrote:

If it's necessary for a business to employ illegal labour to compete in the market place, there's something wrong with that business.
There is something wrong with the local industry yes. But if you understand capitalism then you are aware that once a competitor finds a way to cut overhead either you adapt or file chapter 7.

aardfrith wrote:

Alternatively, look at it from the illegal immigrants point of view.  To provide for their families, they must attempt to travel to the United States (illegally) and get work there (illegally).
The following quote will contradict what you just wrote nicely.

aardfrith wrote:

Doing something illegal with the excuse that it's to provide for one's family is bullshit.  It's still illegal no matter how you cut it.
My point exactly.  The whole idea about providing for one's family by doing illegal shit is bollocks.  If you're justifying local industry employing illegal aliens, you're justifying the illegals coming to the US to make money.  And if you do that, you might as well not complain about it.
ATG
Banned
+5,233|6499|Global Command

aardfrith wrote:

Kmarion wrote:

aardfrith wrote:

If it's necessary for a business to employ illegal labour to compete in the market place, there's something wrong with that business.
There is something wrong with the local industry yes. But if you understand capitalism then you are aware that once a competitor finds a way to cut overhead either you adapt or file chapter 7.

aardfrith wrote:

Alternatively, look at it from the illegal immigrants point of view.  To provide for their families, they must attempt to travel to the United States (illegally) and get work there (illegally).
The following quote will contradict what you just wrote nicely.

aardfrith wrote:

Doing something illegal with the excuse that it's to provide for one's family is bullshit.  It's still illegal no matter how you cut it.
My point exactly.  The whole idea about providing for one's family by doing illegal shit is bollocks.  If you're justifying local industry employing illegal aliens, you're justifying the illegals coming to the US to make money.  And if you do that, you might as well not complain about it.
And where is the accountability for the government officials?

I'm taking my cameras to work with me and I'm going to post pix and maybe video of what it is we are facing here.
Kmar
Truth is my Bitch
+5,695|6571|132 and Bush

aardfrith wrote:

Kmarion wrote:

aardfrith wrote:

If it's necessary for a business to employ illegal labour to compete in the market place, there's something wrong with that business.
There is something wrong with the local industry yes. But if you understand capitalism then you are aware that once a competitor finds a way to cut overhead either you adapt or file chapter 7.

aardfrith wrote:

Alternatively, look at it from the illegal immigrants point of view.  To provide for their families, they must attempt to travel to the United States (illegally) and get work there (illegally).
The following quote will contradict what you just wrote nicely.

aardfrith wrote:

Doing something illegal with the excuse that it's to provide for one's family is bullshit.  It's still illegal no matter how you cut it.
My point exactly.  The whole idea about providing for one's family by doing illegal shit is bollocks.  If you're justifying local industry employing illegal aliens, you're justifying the illegals coming to the US to make money.  And if you do that, you might as well not complain about it.
I'm not advocating it. I'm explaining the reality of it to those on their morally political high horse.
Xbone Stormsurgezz
aardfrith
Δ > x > ¥
+145|6763
Sure, the Government has to be accountable for its failings but that doesn't divest employers of their responsibilities.  If you're providing employment to them, you're providing an incentive for them to cross the border.

Can something be clarified, is it illegal to employ an illegal immigrant?  If it's not, it should be.

Speaking of which, I think someone's head should have rolled in our Government last year when it was revelaed there were illegal immigrants employed as cleaners in our Home Office - the department responsible for immigration and enforcing the law.
rawls2
Mr. Bigglesworth
+89|6530

ATG wrote:

Turquoise wrote:

I'm laughing...  because you left out one very important factor: employers.

As Hunter of Skulls said in another thread, they wouldn't come here if they couldn't find work.  This whole issue is a joke until we get serious enough to actually prosecute every employer of illegals IN ADDITION to securing the border.
Its cowardly to hold employers responsible when you are not demanding the arrest and fining of government assholes who fail to do their jobs .
As I said earlier government/business are now one. Get one and you get them both. And for the record the people in McArthur park are not Iraqi insurgence they didn't deserve what they got. What happens one day your kids grow up and want to learn about their heritage and what if they don't agree with your take on illegals? What are going to tell them? How could you explain how their peoples were treated that day in park? Bullshit is saying reporters were tripping over themslves, pure bullshit.
ATG
Banned
+5,233|6499|Global Command

rawls2 wrote:

ATG wrote:

Turquoise wrote:

I'm laughing...  because you left out one very important factor: employers.

As Hunter of Skulls said in another thread, they wouldn't come here if they couldn't find work.  This whole issue is a joke until we get serious enough to actually prosecute every employer of illegals IN ADDITION to securing the border.
Its cowardly to hold employers responsible when you are not demanding the arrest and fining of government assholes who fail to do their jobs .
As I said earlier government/business are now one. Get one and you get them both. And for the record the people in McArthur park are not Iraqi insurgence they didn't deserve what they got. What happens one day your kids grow up and want to learn about their heritage and what if they don't agree with your take on illegals? What are going to tell them? How could you explain how their peoples were treated that day in park? Bullshit is saying reporters were tripping over themslves, pure bullshit.
No, it's not bullshit.
Tony Valdez, a prominant local reporter, is a mecha hack. They did NOT broadcast or report the fact that people were throwing rocks and bottles at the police. You obvious discredit what I say when I state that a police officer was knocked off his motorcycle. At that point the cops told everybody to disperse.

When a disperse order is given and the cops begin their sweep, you have but one choice and that is to do what they say. They are trained to deal with a crowd like they did.

I own a business and the government can kiss my ass.
My kids will be told that although the government fails to set a moral standard, the foundations of the country are what is sacred, they will respect the rule of law and be instructed on the golden rule. I will explain to them that once we had country with borders and laws, and to not dispair because what once was could be had again.
Major_Spittle
Banned
+276|6625|United States of America
Fuk it, I'm learning spanish, getting a tan, and buying a cheavy.
ATG
Banned
+5,233|6499|Global Command
http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-ex … -headlines


The mayor of L.A. is probably an illegal alien.
Deadmonkiefart
Floccinaucinihilipilificator
+177|6676

ATG wrote:

http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-ex-lapd4may04,0,4071224.story?coll=la-home-headlines


The mayor of L.A. is probably an illegal alien.
If you heard the entire story, or were there, you would notice that the journalists actually began to rile the crowd up.  Mabe they were trying to make their boring assigned coverage a bigger deal? Really, the police were in no way at fault.

Where in that article does it say anything about mayor of L.A. being an illegal alien?

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