KD,. correct me if im wrong, but if you headshot someone, one shot one kill can they be revivied?
Poll
On average, which is more useful for the team, high SPM or high KD?
| Spm | 44% | 44% - 116 | ||||
| Kd | 55% | 55% - 142 | ||||
| Total: 258 | ||||||
Umm in bf2 anything can get revived pretty much... but someone could have an awesome KD ratio while their team is dropping to the ground not getting revived which makes your tickets run out faster...11sog_raider wrote:
KD,. correct me if im wrong, but if you headshot someone, one shot one kill can they be revivied?
Neither, or Both.
Lets explore this with 2 players. Player A and B. (Assume no revives)
Player A: 10 kills, 0 deaths, net team gain of 10 tickets. KDR = 10 (well undefined, but 10 for his kills)
Player B: 40 kills, 20 deaths, net team gain 20 tickets. KDR = 2
In this case you can clearly see Player B had a much lower KDR but did more for his team. So in this case SPM wins.
Player A: 20 kills, 20 deaths, net team gain of 0 tickets. KDR = 1
Player B: 10 kills, 5 deaths, net team gain of 5 tickets. KDR = 2
In this case due to player B higher KDR he had a positive effect on his team, while A had a higher SPM but had zero effect on the team.
2 scenarios neither which take into account any team points, flag captures, revives... even things that you don't get points for, like distracting tanks, or being a good squad leader, and both come to differing conclusions. Now think of everything you can do in the game and the questions is just not so simply answered.
Before I said neither, because a good squad leader that is basically just a spawn point for the squad can do wonders for winning the game yet get a terrible SPM and KDR. If the only thing I was to do on karkand was to capture the factory I have done more for my team then some tank whore or medic whore who get over 100 points and KDR of 10+. The same applies to wake and the Airfield, and many other maps where there is an obvious 'main' capable flag. And would it even be possible for these people do get there great scores and KDR if I hadn't taken that flag and neutralised the enemies main attacking vehicles.
Then there's people who capture flags for no reason, they get points but really do nothing for the team. There's people that spam ammo bags and get 30-50 ammo points a game, does this help? maybe it gives someone that extra grenade which kills some people, so they can capture the flag, maybe it gives that person an extra grenade so he can accidentally TK some people and they lose the flag. Do people who get a really good KDR, but everyone they kill gets revived do much for the team, or is the AT guy who destroys the tank every time but gets killed 2-3 times in the process doing more? Is the medic whore reviving everyone just to see them get killed again and again really doing anything?
The answer is not always the same, In every map the priorities differ, in every game the tactics differ, The best players can read the situation and play accordingly are the ones who truly help your team to victory, They may not be the ones at the top of the leader board, they may not be even noticed in the game, but sometimes its small things like defending a flag or killing a tank that can turn a game around.
Then there are the times a good KD ratio and SPM helps your team, Buts its not that thats helps your team, its what you do that helps your team and you get rewarded with points for those actions. Here's 2 examples on karkand.
Firstly in an Tank: (And no it wasn't spawn raping the hotel), I used the tank as it is meant to be used, supporting my infantry, defending key locations on the map and destroying other vehicles. But I also got help in return, a few people who would come and repair me occasionally and other APCs sticking close by as engineers.
And secondly in an APC: But this Time I also got a good commander who would spot people outside of the UAVs and where the enemies vehicles where coming from and who dropped supplies when needed.
Now an example where KDR isn't so important (but still reasonable) but my SPM was miles higher then anyone else, On ghost town.
Lets explore this with 2 players. Player A and B. (Assume no revives)
Player A: 10 kills, 0 deaths, net team gain of 10 tickets. KDR = 10 (well undefined, but 10 for his kills)
Player B: 40 kills, 20 deaths, net team gain 20 tickets. KDR = 2
In this case you can clearly see Player B had a much lower KDR but did more for his team. So in this case SPM wins.
Player A: 20 kills, 20 deaths, net team gain of 0 tickets. KDR = 1
Player B: 10 kills, 5 deaths, net team gain of 5 tickets. KDR = 2
In this case due to player B higher KDR he had a positive effect on his team, while A had a higher SPM but had zero effect on the team.
2 scenarios neither which take into account any team points, flag captures, revives... even things that you don't get points for, like distracting tanks, or being a good squad leader, and both come to differing conclusions. Now think of everything you can do in the game and the questions is just not so simply answered.
Before I said neither, because a good squad leader that is basically just a spawn point for the squad can do wonders for winning the game yet get a terrible SPM and KDR. If the only thing I was to do on karkand was to capture the factory I have done more for my team then some tank whore or medic whore who get over 100 points and KDR of 10+. The same applies to wake and the Airfield, and many other maps where there is an obvious 'main' capable flag. And would it even be possible for these people do get there great scores and KDR if I hadn't taken that flag and neutralised the enemies main attacking vehicles.
Then there's people who capture flags for no reason, they get points but really do nothing for the team. There's people that spam ammo bags and get 30-50 ammo points a game, does this help? maybe it gives someone that extra grenade which kills some people, so they can capture the flag, maybe it gives that person an extra grenade so he can accidentally TK some people and they lose the flag. Do people who get a really good KDR, but everyone they kill gets revived do much for the team, or is the AT guy who destroys the tank every time but gets killed 2-3 times in the process doing more? Is the medic whore reviving everyone just to see them get killed again and again really doing anything?
The answer is not always the same, In every map the priorities differ, in every game the tactics differ, The best players can read the situation and play accordingly are the ones who truly help your team to victory, They may not be the ones at the top of the leader board, they may not be even noticed in the game, but sometimes its small things like defending a flag or killing a tank that can turn a game around.
Then there are the times a good KD ratio and SPM helps your team, Buts its not that thats helps your team, its what you do that helps your team and you get rewarded with points for those actions. Here's 2 examples on karkand.
Firstly in an Tank: (And no it wasn't spawn raping the hotel), I used the tank as it is meant to be used, supporting my infantry, defending key locations on the map and destroying other vehicles. But I also got help in return, a few people who would come and repair me occasionally and other APCs sticking close by as engineers.
And secondly in an APC: But this Time I also got a good commander who would spot people outside of the UAVs and where the enemies vehicles where coming from and who dropped supplies when needed.
Now an example where KDR isn't so important (but still reasonable) but my SPM was miles higher then anyone else, On ghost town.
Last edited by DrunkFace (2007-04-26 21:48:01)
Kills clear the way for score.
SPM if you have atleast a 2/1 KD
K/D.
How exactly does a team plan on winning if they don't kill anyone? Capping flags is great, but when the other team isn't losing many tickets due to low death counts and you're getting slaughtered trying to take those flags, who do you think is going to be ticking down faster?
It's fairly easy for the random-average Battlefield player to revive spam and help their team with SPM, but a few players on the other team ripping everyone apart is going to win the game.
: edit : Guess I should add in, I'm not considering the KD players to be going shit like 10-0. That's not helping anyone, but then neither is some medic tard that just revives the same few guys over and over after they get naded in the same location for 75% of the round. Assuming most players are medic, the guys picking up 30+ kills <5 deaths obviously know enough about the game to be able to get decent team points as well, and they are doing a hell of a lot more for their team than the guy that just drops medpacks and spams paddles for 80 team points per round.
How exactly does a team plan on winning if they don't kill anyone? Capping flags is great, but when the other team isn't losing many tickets due to low death counts and you're getting slaughtered trying to take those flags, who do you think is going to be ticking down faster?
It's fairly easy for the random-average Battlefield player to revive spam and help their team with SPM, but a few players on the other team ripping everyone apart is going to win the game.
: edit : Guess I should add in, I'm not considering the KD players to be going shit like 10-0. That's not helping anyone, but then neither is some medic tard that just revives the same few guys over and over after they get naded in the same location for 75% of the round. Assuming most players are medic, the guys picking up 30+ kills <5 deaths obviously know enough about the game to be able to get decent team points as well, and they are doing a hell of a lot more for their team than the guy that just drops medpacks and spams paddles for 80 team points per round.
Last edited by RiceKrispie (2007-04-27 03:20:02)
You get points for kills too, so a high SPM means that you're capping, reviving, *and* killing like mad. KDR only relates to the killing part. Also, you can't really die a lot and still get a high SPM, so you aren't giving away tickets. 15 secs of nothing -> low SPM. So high SPM > high KDR.
depends on what the spm came from as well as kdr.... killing a guy ten times over while he gets revived dosent do much for the team... but you get a good kdr from it. as with all these debates, i.e. 17-0 or 35-15, from asking such a vauge question you cant get anwser that matters.
if I was forced to anwser though, I'd say spm because It means your doing somthing, where as you can have a high kdr 5/1 but have only killed those 5 all round.
god these debates are pointless, in the end someone who kills alot, caps alot, dies very little, revs, supplies, heals, defends, assists, or even spots, helps the team the most.
if I was forced to anwser though, I'd say spm because It means your doing somthing, where as you can have a high kdr 5/1 but have only killed those 5 all round.
god these debates are pointless, in the end someone who kills alot, caps alot, dies very little, revs, supplies, heals, defends, assists, or even spots, helps the team the most.
KDR 100%
why? if everyone on your team has a 10:1 kdr, then its pretty obvious that the other team is losing (except for stat padding)
of course, you'll never find a situation as such, but you get my point?
why? if everyone on your team has a 10:1 kdr, then its pretty obvious that the other team is losing (except for stat padding)
of course, you'll never find a situation as such, but you get my point?
If stereotyping a bit, I think the SPM "kind of guy" are more likely to help his team win than the high KDR kind of guy. High SPM types are more relentless in their efforts to take flags, they keep going and going, there's more action in their playing behaviour. The high KDR type are a bit more selfish and posh. He often gets his KDR by some very specific playing behaviour eg a certain vehicle on a certain map and doesn't respond to what the team needs for the moment. I have both kind of behaviours, what ever seems more fun for the moment.
Interesting pov but I think a lot of the KDR guys would be camping the air strip/chopper spawn. You usually don't get high KDR by walking on foot capping flags on maps like Dragon Valley, it involves dying a lot no matter how good you are. The KDR guys don't want to get their hands (KDR) dirty.GameOver wrote:
By the way I would have a question: Let us suppose that we would organize a war between two teams(ten players in each teams). Team K/D against Team SPM. Team K/D would consist of players who are skilled at killing enemies and at how not to die often, but are only average at getting a high SPM(just like me). Team SPM would consist of players who are skilled at getting high SPM-s but they aren't as skilled at killing enemies as members of the Team K/D. Which team do you think would win?
I think Team K/D would win, because members of the Team SPM would die a lot more, they would only stare at the spawnscreen therefore they were unable to do what they are good at. (Because nobody can do anything if he is dead.)
I'd like to say both but thats not a option in the poll, ok i have to go for spm, high spm can mean: much kills ( good for team), much revives ( good for team ), flag capture/defend ( good for team )
high kd can mean: just less deaths ... so ive to go for spm but i like KD in a round more high kd makes e-penis bigger
high kd can mean: just less deaths ... so ive to go for spm but i like KD in a round more high kd makes e-penis bigger
i get my KDR by pwning any enemies i come across, and doing whatever i can to win, be it single handedly taking a flag and killing 10 guys to do it or suicide runs on the enemy tank
Ok, here's my problem with this post. I agree 100% with DrunkFace and what he said.
I along with a few of my friends are becoming an unstoppable AT team. Any vehicle that comes our way we can destroy fairly quick. Now, Neither of us gets a huge SPM because, while still going and grabbing flags, our main objective is to seek & destroy armor, choppers, and any other vehicles we can.
Because we are AT and targeting mostly armor, our K/D ratio takes a hit too. It's inevitable that a tank will nab at least one of us before it is destroyed.
Now if 3 of us would join a team and did nothing but keep that armor/apc away from the thick of the battle, guess what, we've helped save many more lives than some medic can.
A great AT team doesn't get hundreds of points or a huge K/D ratio. But they do keep that Armor Whore (K/D seeker) occupied, and allows those capping flags (the SPM guys) to accomplish their goal unhindered.
As a general stereotype, those people looking for a huge SPM are medic/support. Well what happens when the armor rolls up and camps you, say goodbye to that SPM.
So to conclude, SPM and KD are meaningless, as long as you have a good team working together that include some of every kit. When you lack a kit, you are hindering your team
I along with a few of my friends are becoming an unstoppable AT team. Any vehicle that comes our way we can destroy fairly quick. Now, Neither of us gets a huge SPM because, while still going and grabbing flags, our main objective is to seek & destroy armor, choppers, and any other vehicles we can.
Because we are AT and targeting mostly armor, our K/D ratio takes a hit too. It's inevitable that a tank will nab at least one of us before it is destroyed.
Now if 3 of us would join a team and did nothing but keep that armor/apc away from the thick of the battle, guess what, we've helped save many more lives than some medic can.
A great AT team doesn't get hundreds of points or a huge K/D ratio. But they do keep that Armor Whore (K/D seeker) occupied, and allows those capping flags (the SPM guys) to accomplish their goal unhindered.
As a general stereotype, those people looking for a huge SPM are medic/support. Well what happens when the armor rolls up and camps you, say goodbye to that SPM.
So to conclude, SPM and KD are meaningless, as long as you have a good team working together that include some of every kit. When you lack a kit, you are hindering your team
Last edited by Drexel (2007-05-01 10:15:16)
The answer is k/d...
Wins are based off tickets, Bleed CAN affect things but more often then not its still gonna come down to what team is doing more killing.
Sure some of your kills are revived, but thats how it always goes... That just means a certain % of the kills are not counted for your team, meaning the guy who is raking them in is even more valuable....Besisdes its not like a good portion of your ammo/healing points aren't wasted by the person just dieing with out getting another kill or flag cap.
Sure SPM could mean kills AND support actions, but what is the ultimate point of those support actions?
You re-arm some one so they can get more kills, you revive and heal so they get less deaths.... In the end the support actions are just there to boost other peoples K/D
Take two teams, and put them on a map. Team A can capture flags, but isn't allowed to kill. Team B can kill but cant capture flags. As long as there is an uncap A will win, reguardless of ticket bleed.
Wins are based off tickets, Bleed CAN affect things but more often then not its still gonna come down to what team is doing more killing.
Sure some of your kills are revived, but thats how it always goes... That just means a certain % of the kills are not counted for your team, meaning the guy who is raking them in is even more valuable....Besisdes its not like a good portion of your ammo/healing points aren't wasted by the person just dieing with out getting another kill or flag cap.
Sure SPM could mean kills AND support actions, but what is the ultimate point of those support actions?
You re-arm some one so they can get more kills, you revive and heal so they get less deaths.... In the end the support actions are just there to boost other peoples K/D
Take two teams, and put them on a map. Team A can capture flags, but isn't allowed to kill. Team B can kill but cant capture flags. As long as there is an uncap A will win, reguardless of ticket bleed.
I beg to differ. A SMART team that isn't allowed to kill will stay hidden and away from the enemy, stick together and revive multiple times. If you can cap all but 1 flag, you lose 1 ticket/second on a 64 map. (smartest one yet would once getting the bleed going just not spawn)VicktorVauhn wrote:
Take two teams, and put them on a map. Team A can capture flags, but isn't allowed to kill. Team B can kill but cant capture flags. As long as there is an uncap A will win, reguardless of ticket bleed.
neither
Last edited by Locoloki (2007-05-01 11:12:38)
QFT.haffeysucks wrote:
More useful? SPM.
Showing higher skill? KDR.
Killing the enemy is a better asset than reviving your teammates a million times only to get killed some more.
KD, but only if you play agressive, no one has an advantage of a pus, ehm sniper laying in the field, doing nothing else then pick up loose sheep.., throwing arti on a single sniper rules..
a bit of both as we must remeber this is bf2 where people could be REVIVED.
True that can happen.... Not likely but.....Ilocano wrote:
I've played quite a few matches where my team had significantly better KDR, but lost against a team with significantly more SPM. And so, SPM is more important. Your kills don't show the enemies revives.
My opinion.
K/D definitely!
Let's see...
High SPM players usually medics or supports.
Supplying has nothing to do with the outcome of the game.
Healing and reviving on the other hand help saving tickets, but if you don't kill anything you lose!
Assistant kills, ok team points for that, but they are more in K/D category than SPM in my opinion.
Try to cap a flag without killing anybody on the way, just reviving and supplying your teammates?!?!
And how do you protect flag without killing someone.
It's true also that SPM involves some killing in it, but with a lousy K/D it's not significant.
This is the everyday usual SPM or K/D debate which will not ever stop.
All I can say that my K/D is better than my SPM and my WLR is even better than that, but that is an another story....
Anyone that voted SKP must be brain dead.
I'll sit in an upturned boat with my spanner on turbo and see how much it helps the team.
I'll sit in an upturned boat with my spanner on turbo and see how much it helps the team.
Score per minute. Anyone can get a high kill to death ratio and have very few kills. I can go a round as a sniper - hole up in a place where I know I'll get at least 10 kills and 0 or 1 death, have a tremendous K/D ratio but do almost nothing for my team. Another scenario, I'm in armor camping an enemy spawn and rack up a 50-2 run. Awesome K/D ratio and yes, I have reduced the enemies tickets, but at the same time my team has lost all the other flags and we bleed down and lose. One can do the same with a jet...you get the picture.
Christ you'd think it was rocket science wouldn't you :S