Dersmikner
Member
+147|6713|Texas
American Psycho.

Did he kill those people or not? What the hell...

I'm a successful professional, well read and well traveled, love movies of the thriller genre, paid attention (other than doing a little work on the laptop here and there during the flick) and just plain didn't fucking get this one.

I may be an idiot after all... or maybe this movie sucked.

Thoughts on what the hell happened in this one?
paper_pigeon
God Status
+26|6440|Mildura, Aus
it got me to, mind boggling isnt it, but i think he killed the wrong person lol

im not sure man
sexecuti0ner
What kinda guy are you are?
+148|6447
I've always thought that he did not kill those people.  It seemed to me that he was just hallucinating the entire series of events in which he went on killing sprees.  I'm not 100% on this and I haven't seen the movies in a number of years, but thats the way I've always thought of it.
topal63
. . .
+533|6933
It's a book adaptation into film (the book is slightly ambiguous). The film is not so.

The visible blood trail? Who wouldn't notice that?
The cop car blowing up? Quite unreal!
Yet the linear violent details of other events on film are unlike the book (or don't/wouldn't translate well as pure fantasies of mind).

(IMO, in the film adaptation) He killed all of them - the point is existential. And it is a commentary on the superficiality of the 80s (or for that matter any any era).

He is the anti-hero: pathetic, sycophantic in peer circles like those he associates with (the yuppie rich elite they each create an image-of-self for each other and to separate them from what they don't identify with; deemed to be beneath them), he despises himself (and does not even know who is the real Patrick Bateman, "I feel my mask of sanity is slipping," he loathes the fact that he cannot identify a real ego with emotions within himself), he is a sociopath and ultimately a psychopath – who is just trying to "fit-in." . . . This is his existence.

From the movie (it is literary existentialism):
"There is an idea of a Patrick Bateman, some kind of abstraction, but there is no real me, only an entity, something illusory, and though I can hide my cold gaze and you can shake my hand and feel flesh gripping you and maybe you can even sense our lifestyles are probably comparable but. . . I simply am not there."

"I have all the characteristics of a human being- flesh, blood, skin, hair-but not a single clear, identifiable emotion except for greed, and disgust. Something horrible is happening inside me and I don't know why. … My nightly bloodlust has overflowed into my days. I feel lethal, on the verge of frenzy."

"In 1987 Huey Lewis and the News released this, Fore!, their most accomplished album. I think it is their undisputed masterpiece, on it is "Hip To Be Square," a song so catchy that most people probably don't listen to the lyrics. But they should(!) because it's not just about the pleasures of conformity and the importance of trends."

"Did you know that Whitney Houston's debut LP called simply Whitney Houston had four number-one singles on it? . . . It's hard to choose a favorite track among so many great ones, but "The Greatest Love of All" is one of the best, most powerful songs ever written about self-preservation and dignity. It's universal message crosses all boundaries, and instills one with the hope that it's not too late to better ourselves. to act kinder. Since, Elizabeth, it's impossible in the world we live in to empathize with others, we can always empathize with ourselves. It's an important message, crucial, really, and it's beautifully stated on the album."

"Harold, it's Bateman. Patrick Bateman. You're my lawyer so I think you should know-I've killed a lot of people. Some escort girls, in an apartment uptown, some homeless people, maybe five or ten, an NYU girl I met in Central Park. I left her in a parking lot, near Dunkin' Donuts. I killed Bethany, my old girlfriend, with a nail gun. And a man, some old faggot with a dog. Last week I killed another girl with a chainsaw-I had to, she almost got away There was someone else there, maybe a model, I can't remember but she's dead too. And Paul Allen. I killed Paul Allen with an ax, in the face. His body is dissolving in a bathtub in Hell's Kitchen. I don't want to leave anything out here...I guess I've killed 20 people, maybe 40-I have tapes of a lot of it. Some of the girls have seen the tapes, I even...well, I ate some of their brains and I tried to cook a little. Tonight I just, well, I had to kill a lot of people and I'm not sure I 'm going to get away with it this time-I mean I guess I'm a pretty sick guy. So-if you get back tomorrow, I may show up at Harry's Bar, so, you know, keep your eyes open."
The elite are truly powerful and all his "blood-lust" murderous episodes and his confession (to his lawyer) during one-night of insane murderous overload amounts ultimately to: NOTHING. There is no catharsis, there is no penance, there is no judgment, there is no penalty, there is only the white-wash of his horrible deeds confessed. He enters a newly painted white-room (apartment), were he should find within the apartment of Paul Allen (Paul Owen, in the Book) all the horror and mess of his deeds committed. Yet there is nothing - only white. 

The women near the end (in the freshly painted white apartment of Paul Allen) instructs him: "to not make any trouble and just walk away."

In the bar the superficiality of self spills over onto the floor of reality (before him) - he is confronted by that superficiality. It is a recurrent theme in the movie (now brought into extreme focus): that of plastic unidentifiable non-unique shallow ego confusions; who is who; and who is mistaken for someone else. Even Bateman's identity has been confused with being: Halberstam and/or Davis, and the same for Paul Allen. He has been confused with other identities, as well, even though there is a real ongoing investigation over his sudden disappearance, Bateman fakes a call that Paul is in London. Then people believe it and someone even claims they might have seen him (Paul) there.

The end of the movie:
"There are no more barriers to cross. All I have in common with the uncontrollable and the insane, the vicious and the evil, all the mayhem I have caused and my utter indifference toward it, I have now surpassed... My pain is constant and sharp and I do not hope for a better world for anyone. I fact I want my pain to be inflicted on
others. I want no escape. ... But even after admitting this, there is no catharsis. I gain no deeper knowledge about myself, no new knowledge can be extracted from my telling. There has been no reason for me to tell you any of this. This confession has meant nothing..."

A sign on the wall behind him: "THIS IS NOT AN EXIT."
His deeds are white-washed, cleansed, by people far more powerful than one pathetic individual. There is no moral as to why was he protected (his deeds white-washed) because there are no morals for those believing themselves to be beyond good and evil. In a way; a sense; the system is unsympathetic to Bateman even though it protects him, as it is only worried about its superficial image. The confession is meaningless and disregarded in its' entirety in a superficial world that simply moves on; and moves on immediately – regardless of self (or lost self). There was no escape for him from his existence. There was no exit.

Last edited by topal63 (2007-04-26 11:40:39)

Volatile
Member
+252|6919|Sextupling in Empire

All I know is that I laugh my ass off every time I watch that masterpeice.

Christian Bale's acting was superb IMO.
ATG
Banned
+5,233|6744|Global Command

Dersmikner wrote:

American Psycho.

Did he kill those people or not? What the hell...

I'm a successful professional, well read and well traveled, love movies of the thriller genre, paid attention (other than doing a little work on the laptop here and there during the flick) and just plain didn't fucking get this one.

I may be an idiot after all... or maybe this movie sucked.

Thoughts on what the hell happened in this one?
Stupid movie.
topal63
. . .
+533|6933

Volatile_Squirrel wrote:

All I know is that I laugh my ass off every time I watch that masterpiece.

Christian Bale's acting was superb IMO.
Yep... it is a masterpiece (one of the best book adaptations ever).

The business card scene - is so telling - of a guy who wants to compete but really can't; or can't adjust (fit-in).


___

Hey why are there newspapers on the floor, you got one of those little chow-chow dogs or something? Hehehe...

No Paul.

Is that an raincoat?

Yes is it Paul.

Last edited by topal63 (2007-04-26 08:53:36)

Marlboroman82
Personal philosophy: Clothing optional.
+1,022|6838|Camp XRay

i love that movie -

Patrick Bateman: Do you like Huey Lewis and the news?
Paul Allen: They're OK.
Patrick Bateman: Their early work was a little too new wave for my tastes, but when Sports came out in '83,I think they really came into their own, commercial and artistically. The whole album has a clear, crisp sound, and a new sheen of consimante professionalism that really gives the songs a big boost. He's been compared to Elvis Costello, but I think Huey has a far much more bitter, cynical sense of humour.
Paul Allen: Hey Halberstram.
Patrick Bateman: Yes, Allen?
Paul Allen: Why are their copies of the style section all over the place, d-do you have a dog? A little chow or something?
Patrick Bateman: No, Allen.
Paul Allen: Is that a rain coat?
Patrick Bateman: Yes it is! In '87, Huey released this, Fore, their most accomplished album. I think their undisputed masterpiece is "Hip to be Square", a song so catchy, most people probably don't listen to the lyrics. But they should, because it's not just about the pleasures of conformity, and the importance of trends, it's also a personal statement about the band itself.
[raises axe above head]
Patrick Bateman: Hey Paul!
[he bashes Allen in the head with the axe, and blood splatters over him]
Patrick Bateman: TRY GETTING A RESERVATION AT DORSIA NOW YOU FUCKING STUPID BASTARD! YOU, FUCKING BASTARD!
https://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l250/marlboroman82/Untitled-8.png
topal63
. . .
+533|6933

Marlboroman82 wrote:

i love that movie -

Patrick Bateman: Do you like Huey Lewis and the news?
Paul Allen: They're OK.
Patrick Bateman: Their early work was a little too new wave for my tastes, but when Sports came out in '83,I think they really came into their own, commercial and artistically. The whole album has a clear, crisp sound, and a new sheen of consimante professionalism that really gives the songs a big boost. He's been compared to Elvis Costello, but I think Huey has a far much more bitter, cynical sense of humour.
Paul Allen: Hey Halberstram.
Patrick Bateman: Yes, Allen?
Paul Allen: Why are their copies of the style section all over the place, d-do you have a dog? A little chow or something?
Patrick Bateman: No, Allen.
Paul Allen: Is that a rain coat?
Patrick Bateman: Yes it is! In '87, Huey released this, Fore, their most accomplished album. I think their undisputed masterpiece is "Hip to be Square", a song so catchy, most people probably don't listen to the lyrics. But they should, because it's not just about the pleasures of conformity, and the importance of trends, it's also a personal statement about the band itself.
[raises axe above head]
Patrick Bateman: Hey Paul!
[he bashes Allen in the head with the axe, and blood splatters over him]
Patrick Bateman: TRY GETTING A RESERVATION AT DORSIA NOW YOU FUCKING STUPID BASTARD! YOU, FUCKING BASTARD!
A mod can delete this post - if deemed to graphic (Paul+Axe to Face Scene):

But it isn't reality... no one really died - it's just a movie.

Another really good existentialist killer movie told from the point of view of the killers is the Japanese film: Ichi the Killer.

Last edited by topal63 (2007-04-26 09:04:44)

Varegg
Support fanatic :-)
+2,206|7025|Nårvei

^^ That scene and the business card scene are without doubt in my top ten movie wise - awesome movie
Wait behind the line ..............................................................
topal63
. . .
+533|6933

Varegg wrote:

^^ That scene and the business card scene are without doubt in my top ten movie wise - awesome movie
One of the better films ever made... and it is a direct contrast to another great film I love: Life as a House.
Marlboroman82
Personal philosophy: Clothing optional.
+1,022|6838|Camp XRay

also if you all have seen the rules of attraction it is written by the same author. it has the best scene in it, i posted it once and the removed cause it had a 2sec booby shot in it.

https://www.impawards.com/2002/posters/rules_of_attraction.jpg
https://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l250/marlboroman82/Untitled-8.png
Varegg
Support fanatic :-)
+2,206|7025|Nårvei

topal63 wrote:

Varegg wrote:

^^ That scene and the business card scene are without doubt in my top ten movie wise - awesome movie
One of the better films ever made... and it is a direct contrast to another great film I love: Life as a House.
Haven`t seen that one, am not to big a fan of Kevin Kline
Wait behind the line ..............................................................
topal63
. . .
+533|6933

Marlboroman82 wrote:

also if you all have seen the rules of attraction it is written by the same author. it has the best scene in it, i posted it once and the removed cause it had a 2sec booby shot in it.

http://www.impawards.com/2002/posters/r … action.jpg
Have you seen Ichi the Killer?

She is not the one worthy of killing him...

Last edited by topal63 (2007-04-26 09:24:13)

SgtHeihn
Should have ducked
+394|6702|Ham Lake, MN (Fucking Cold)
The book was way better than the movie,(American Psycho)
heggs
Spamalamadingdong
+581|6603|New York
Read the novel.

It gives further insight as to how it really was all in his head. He did NOT commit any of those murders. I recently finished another book by Ellis (Lunar Park, 2005), in which he did a forward talking about his previous novels, and he specifically stated that Patrick Bateman made up everything in his head.
Remember Me As A Time Of Day
topal63
. . .
+533|6933

heggs wrote:

Read the novel.

It gives further insight as to how it really was all in his head. He did NOT commit any of those murders. I recently finished another book by Ellis (Lunar Park, 2005), in which he did a forward talking about his previous novels, and he specifically stated that Patrick Bateman made up everything in his head.
That is true for the book (the actual Novel) - maybe - well not really.

And anyone can change their mind after the fact (modify the past in another novel) and add to the mystique (or destroy the mystique). And an adaptation of a book is not going to be entirely faithful to a book (you can get away with a violent fantasy of mind in a book, but it will not translate well into film). Film is too graphic and filled with visceral detail. You can read words and create your own mental image construct - but you cannot do that in film. You are providing the images. You are not relying on the individual to create the mental image - the image is there on film.

What is a potential truth of the book is not going to be true for the film. You can't film fantasies of mind and portray such detail as a fantasy of mind. Even in "fight club" the schitzo-personality-break (and creation of the alter-ego Tyler Durden), does not diminish the film violence. If the reality of the violence is a fantasy of mind - it would actually need to be filmed differently like discussions of it with voice overdubs, potentially over mental-flashbacks (or in an entirely different surreal manor altogether), but not in linear real-time detail. The book is not the film.

But yeah - read the Novel - for a different experience.

Last edited by topal63 (2007-04-26 11:29:31)

Varegg
Support fanatic :-)
+2,206|7025|Nårvei

Kelly`s Heroes - Think it`s my all time favorite movie, not the best in many categories but every time i watch i laugh real good !

Fight Club - Snatch - Lock, Stock and two smoking barrels - Layer Cake - Trainspotting <--- Geniously good !
Wait behind the line ..............................................................

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