coke
Aye up duck!
+440|6711|England. Stoke
I posted a few days ago asking for help on decidng which new card to buy I was considering a 1950 pro. But in the end I have decided to hold off for a couple of weeks to see firstly how the 8600 cards shape and also to see what ATI's new offerings are like and how they affect nvidia's pricing.
The reason I after a new card is that my friend has just upgraded his computer and I have bought some of his components off him. I going from a 2.5 Barton with 1.25g of ram and a 7600gs AGP, to a 3500+ 64 bit with 2g of ram and whatever graphics card I get.
Like I say after recently deciding against buying something like a 1950 pro, I am now looking more and more at spending a bit more and getting something like 8800gts 320mb.
So after reading some other recent posts on here, would the cpu badly bottleneck?? What sort of performance gain would I get from this compared to say a mid range X2 or something similar??
Even so I may still consider getting this card in terms of future proofing myself a bit more as I can later upgrade the cpu etc...
heggs
Spamalamadingdong
+581|6390|New York
With a 3500+? it would bottleneck your face off. I have a 3200+ with a 7800gt and my cpu bottlenecks my system, imagine what a 3500+ will do to yours.

Edit: but you can make do with that until you get a better cpu.

Last edited by heggs (2007-04-18 11:49:37)

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CrazeD
Member
+368|6675|Maine
It should be fine.
coke
Aye up duck!
+440|6711|England. Stoke
Well like I said I may just buy one anyway as I gonna get the best performance I can, if it bottlenecks it, it still gonna be better than something like 1950 pro anyway right?
And for spending the extra few pounds I cover myself for a lot longer in terms of when I need to upgrade again...
Bertster7
Confused Pothead
+1,101|6583|SE London

CrazeD wrote:

It should be fine.
It won't be fine.

I used to run an 8800GTS on a 3700+ Sandy. It was ok, but now I've got a Conroe in there the difference is huge.

You will be able to turn up lots of advanced graphics effects though, which is always nice.
coke
Aye up duck!
+440|6711|England. Stoke
So I might as well get it then, ok I wont be getting the best possible performance out of it, but I hopefully wont be using that CPU for too long. But if I buy a slightly cheaper card I may get the same performance for a time but when I upgrade I wont need to buy a new card again...
Mad Ad
Member
+178|6513|England, UK
bottleneck, seems to be this years stupid buzzword

but like many buzzwords it doesnt really mean a lot, buy what you can afford - theres always going to be a bottleneck somewere, even if you had the cash to buy the best of the best you will still be limited by platform bottlenecks.
Lucien
Fantasma Parastasie
+1,451|6655

Mad Ad wrote:

bottleneck, seems to be this years stupid buzzword

but like many buzzwords it doesnt really mean a lot, buy what you can afford - theres always going to be a bottleneck somewere, even if you had the cash to buy the best of the best you will still be limited by platform bottlenecks.
doesnt mean a lot? I have an AMD 3000+ together with an x1950pro and it's bottleneck-o-rama: on high settings, I normally get 50-60, with frequent drops into 40, on medium its 40-50 and on low as well. While with my old x1600, I got the same FPS on high settings, but 70-80 on medium or low with it never really dropping below 60 (that goes for BF2 and CSS, at least)

Bottlenecks suck. Don't buy an overpowered videocard unless if you're going to upgrade your processors soon as well. I'm actually planning on selling off my x1950 and buying a more average system (nvidia 8600, intel 4300 (wtf doubles))
https://i.imgur.com/HTmoH.jpg
Bertster7
Confused Pothead
+1,101|6583|SE London

SargeV1.4 wrote:

Mad Ad wrote:

bottleneck, seems to be this years stupid buzzword

but like many buzzwords it doesnt really mean a lot, buy what you can afford - theres always going to be a bottleneck somewere, even if you had the cash to buy the best of the best you will still be limited by platform bottlenecks.
doesnt mean a lot? I have an AMD 3000+ together with an x1950pro and it's bottleneck-o-rama: on high settings, I normally get 50-60, with frequent drops into 40, on medium its 40-50 and on low as well. While with my old x1600, I got the same FPS on high settings, but 70-80 on medium or low with it never really dropping below 60 (that goes for BF2 and CSS, at least)

Bottlenecks suck. Don't buy an overpowered videocard unless if you're going to upgrade your processors soon as well. I'm actually planning on selling off my x1950 and buying a more average system (nvidia 8600, intel 4300 (wtf doubles))
CPU bottlenecks aren't the end of the world. You can always put AA and AF upto full for "free" and little things like that make stuff look nice without any extra CPU strain.

I wouldn't advise the 4300, the 6300 is soooo worth the extra couple of quid.
coke
Aye up duck!
+440|6711|England. Stoke

SargeV1.4 wrote:

Mad Ad wrote:

bottleneck, seems to be this years stupid buzzword

but like many buzzwords it doesnt really mean a lot, buy what you can afford - theres always going to be a bottleneck somewere, even if you had the cash to buy the best of the best you will still be limited by platform bottlenecks.
doesnt mean a lot? I have an AMD 3000+ together with an x1950pro and it's bottleneck-o-rama: on high settings, I normally get 50-60, with frequent drops into 40, on medium its 40-50 and on low as well. While with my old x1600, I got the same FPS on high settings, but 70-80 on medium or low with it never really dropping below 60 (that goes for BF2 and CSS, at least)

Bottlenecks suck. Don't buy an overpowered videocard unless if you're going to upgrade your processors soon as well. I'm actually planning on selling off my x1950 and buying a more average system (nvidia 8600, intel 4300 (wtf doubles))
So your saying that I could actually see a fall in my game performance!!
killinzero1
Member
+14|6389
basicly
coke
Aye up duck!
+440|6711|England. Stoke
Ok I understand that the graphics card is going to be bottlenecked by the CPU, but surely I will see a drastic improvement over my current setup. Going from a 2.5 Barton with 1.25g of ram and a 7600 GS (Agp) to a 3500+ 64 with 2g of ram and a decent PCI-e card such as the 8800 gts!!??

For example I should be able to run BF2 and 2142 on max settings at a good res right?

Last edited by coke (2007-04-18 17:56:18)

The#1Spot
Member
+105|6541|byah

coke wrote:

Ok I understand that the graphics card is going to be bottlenecked by the CPU, but surely I will see a drastic improvement over my current setup. Going from a 2.5 Barton with 1.25g of ram and a 7600 GS (Agp) to a 3500+ 64 with 2g of ram and a decent PCI-e card such as the 8800 gts!!??

For example I should be able to run BF2 and 2142 on max settings at a good res right?
I seriously doubt it. I would say you would get about 75% of he cards true potential
GC_PaNzerFIN
Work and study @ Technical Uni
+528|6416|Finland

You will notice great performance increase from 7600gs, for example you can use higher AA and AF modes. But after you upgrade your cpu to better you will get huge extra performance boost. 
I could get a nice 50 fps boost with my X800 xt if I bought a C2D.
If I bought a 8800 with my amd 3500+ I might get the same increase or little lower.
with C2D and 8800 the increase would be something like >100fps in lower resolutions
3930K | H100i | RIVF | 16GB DDR3 | GTX 480 | AX750 | 800D | 512GB SSD | 3TB HDD | Xonar DX | W8
CrazeD
Member
+368|6675|Maine

coke wrote:

Ok I understand that the graphics card is going to be bottlenecked by the CPU, but surely I will see a drastic improvement over my current setup. Going from a 2.5 Barton with 1.25g of ram and a 7600 GS (Agp) to a 3500+ 64 with 2g of ram and a decent PCI-e card such as the 8800 gts!!??

For example I should be able to run BF2 and 2142 on max settings at a good res right?
Yes, you can run max settings.
Bertster7
Confused Pothead
+1,101|6583|SE London

coke wrote:

Ok I understand that the graphics card is going to be bottlenecked by the CPU, but surely I will see a drastic improvement over my current setup. Going from a 2.5 Barton with 1.25g of ram and a 7600 GS (Agp) to a 3500+ 64 with 2g of ram and a decent PCI-e card such as the 8800 gts!!??

For example I should be able to run BF2 and 2142 on max settings at a good res right?
Yes, you certainly should. With lots of AA and AF too.
coke
Aye up duck!
+440|6711|England. Stoke

The#1Spot wrote:

coke wrote:

Ok I understand that the graphics card is going to be bottlenecked by the CPU, but surely I will see a drastic improvement over my current setup. Going from a 2.5 Barton with 1.25g of ram and a 7600 GS (Agp) to a 3500+ 64 with 2g of ram and a decent PCI-e card such as the 8800 gts!!??

For example I should be able to run BF2 and 2142 on max settings at a good res right?
I seriously doubt it. I would say you would get about 75% of he cards true potential
Even at 75% performance this card should be able to run most new games never mind BF2 and 2142 at nearly the highest settings, surely...
My whole point here is that I was considering getting a 1950 pro, but I changed my mind and thought I might as well buy a 8800 gts and future proof myself a bit more (in terms of the graphics card). So surely I will get better performance even if only slightly out of the 8800 than I would out of the 1950 pro...
Mad Ad
Member
+178|6513|England, UK

coke wrote:

So surely I will get better performance even if only slightly out of the 8800 than I would out of the 1950 pro...
Exactly- its no big deal just buy what you can afford.

The whole of the pc is a bottleneck in one way or another.  When ram stops lagging behind and can run 1:1 at full cpu speed then thatll get rid of the ram bottleneck, and what about the drives, when that can dump data at the speed of a 1:1 fsb (faster than the current sata interface) then that will remove the data bottleneck, oh and that goes for network interfaces too- and the gfx of course we have to have that running at the same speed as the fsb or thatll be a bottleneck.

but all that wont be happening inside 10 years, never mind 20 - things are developed at different speeds yet people seem to be suddenly using this word bottleneck to mean small amounts of inefficiency in a big box full of inefficiencies.
CrazeD
Member
+368|6675|Maine

Mad Ad wrote:

coke wrote:

So surely I will get better performance even if only slightly out of the 8800 than I would out of the 1950 pro...
Exactly- its no big deal just buy what you can afford.

The whole of the pc is a bottleneck in one way or another.  When ram stops lagging behind and can run 1:1 at full cpu speed then thatll get rid of the ram bottleneck, and what about the drives, when that can dump data at the speed of a 1:1 fsb (faster than the current sata interface) then that will remove the data bottleneck, oh and that goes for network interfaces too- and the gfx of course we have to have that running at the same speed as the fsb or thatll be a bottleneck.

but all that wont be happening inside 10 years, never mind 20 - things are developed at different speeds yet people seem to be suddenly using this word bottleneck to mean small amounts of inefficiency in a big box full of inefficiencies.
Exactly, there's no such thing as a bottle neck. Sure, a low powered CPU may not perform as well as a high performance one, but it's not a bottle neck.

Stop fricken saying bottle neck.
Greenboi
Member
+14|6369
If you want to take away some of the CPU bottleneck, try making ALL of the settings on high in the graphics control panel, it took some strain off of my cpu when it was at 1.86 (still fast, its a conroe) but now at 3.01 overclocked, its lightning.

Overclock the CPU with an aftermarket cooler, and max the graphics out to take strain off of the CPU a bit more
coke
Aye up duck!
+440|6711|England. Stoke

Greenboi wrote:

If you want to take away some of the CPU bottleneck, try making ALL of the settings on high in the graphics control panel, it took some strain off of my cpu when it was at 1.86 (still fast, its a conroe) but now at 3.01 overclocked, its lightning.

Overclock the CPU with an aftermarket cooler, and max the graphics out to take strain off of the CPU a bit more
Yeah I will be looking to max the graphics and yeah I was probably gonna overclock a bit too, the CPU already has this quite beasty Akasa Evo 33 heatpipe cooler on it so that should be fine.
TheEternalPessimist
Wibble
+412|6622|Mhz

heggs wrote:

With a 3500+? it would bottleneck your face off. I have a 3200+ with a 7800gt and my cpu bottlenecks my system, imagine what a 3500+ will do to yours.

Edit: but you can make do with that until you get a better cpu.
What he said, I had a 3200+ same as him with an x1950 pro, i got 40FPS tops, new CPU (C2D e6600) I get 85FPS minimum all the hardware is the same apart from the CPU and the motherboard and the mobo is cheap as dirt so it's all the CPU making the difference.

A 3500 isnt a lot better than a 3200 and an 8800 is considerably better than an x1950, you work the rest out.
tehz
<3 Bosnia
+11|6502|gulf of oman
coke
Aye up duck!
+440|6711|England. Stoke
Yeah and according to that the different processors actually make very little difference in gameplay...
Fair enough the ones used there are all more powerful than mine, but the difference between the bottom and top processor there was quite significant yet it only resulted in about 2-3 fps more.
unnamednewbie13
Moderator
+2,053|6773|PNW

coke wrote:

I posted a few days ago asking for help on decidng which new card to buy I was considering a 1950 pro. But in the end I have decided to hold off for a couple of weeks to see firstly how the 8600 cards shape and also to see what ATI's new offerings are like and how they affect nvidia's pricing.
The reason I after a new card is that my friend has just upgraded his computer and I have bought some of his components off him. I going from a 2.5 Barton with 1.25g of ram and a 7600gs AGP, to a 3500+ 64 bit with 2g of ram and whatever graphics card I get.
Like I say after recently deciding against buying something like a 1950 pro, I am now looking more and more at spending a bit more and getting something like 8800gts 320mb.
So after reading some other recent posts on here, would the cpu badly bottleneck?? What sort of performance gain would I get from this compared to say a mid range X2 or something similar??
Even so I may still consider getting this card in terms of future proofing myself a bit more as I can later upgrade the cpu etc...
I have a 3500+ 64 with 2GB of RAM. It bottlenecks my performance on Supreme Commander. After tests, I've determined that my AGP 6800 UOC has no difficulty rendering visual elements of the game, and that performance on large-scale maps have been consistently-low, no matter what the detail level is set to.

You'll be just fine using your 7600GS, unless you really want to go DX10 without spending too much money.

Last edited by unnamednewbie13 (2007-04-20 12:58:42)

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